Guild Wars 2

Is this really how you’re supposed to fight in this game?
Fight to not win against a certain class?

Someone please enlighten me about this mechanic. Maybe i’m missing something because i can’t find the fun factor in that.

I always hate to say it but its a L2 kitten ue. I play a thief and I die, other classes beat me. (And I’d like to think I’m a fairly good thief 1k+hours) I also play a Necro (badly I might add ~50 hours) and don’t have a issue killing thieves.

Most thieves won’t be in a rush to kill you, they will take there time and ware you down. This also (obviously) frustrates the enemy, making it easier to kill them. People say “just don’t fight thieves” because you sticking around in a 1v1 fight is what the thief wants, your playing his game. You running away makes it more likely that you’ll find people and put the thief at a large disadvantage and they don’t want that.

1.) Level an elementalist to 80
2.) Buy 2 daggers and pvt gear
3.) Profit

• Results can be also be achieved with Guardian or an player that has learned to play

Make a thief to learn how to counter them. Hint: It’s pretty easy.

Mesmers on the other hand… shudders

Really, either guardians or D/D elementalists are just a very bad matchup for thieves.

But I’ve taught even rangers and engineers on how to handle thieves. Find a friend who play thief and go train 1v1 in sPvP some. Depending on the type of thief, making distance with the thief is always a good solution.

Blind, confusion, knockdown, cripple, fear.

There, I just gave you the tools you need. :p

Zikory.6871:

I always hate to say it but its a L2 kitten ue. I play a thief and I die, other classes beat me. (And I’d like to think I’m a fairly good thief 1k+hours) I also play a Necro (badly I might add ~50 hours) and don’t have a issue killing thieves.

Most thieves won’t be in a rush to kill you, they will take there time and ware you down. This also (obviously) frustrates the enemy, making it easier to kill them. People say “just don’t fight thieves” because you sticking around in a 1v1 fight is what the thief wants, your playing his game. You running away makes it more likely that you’ll find people and put the thief at a large disadvantage and they don’t want that.

Thiefs dont die…..they try to gank….and if that fails, run away with impunity.

No risk, highreward.

You should never see thiefs jumping in to attack a large group and porting out with impunity. They have too many escape options. Either make them hit like a wet blanket, or make them commit, if they dont get the kill, make them pay for it, not just be able to get away and try again.

Sevenred.3890:

Really, either guardians or D/D elementalists are just a very bad matchup for thieves.

But I’ve taught even rangers and engineers on how to handle thieves. Find a friend who play thief and go train 1v1 in sPvP some. Depending on the type of thief, making distance with the thief is always a good solution.

Making distance with thiefs is not a problem, they run away very well….if they mess up the attack, they should be forced to fight, not allowed to just run away

If you see Shadow Refuge, CC it. If you don’t have CC, then you deserve to get killed by said thief.

Also, chilled is your friend.

EDIT: If you keep attacking, even while the thief is stealthed, you’ll get attack chains if you ARE in fact hitting them.

more thief QQ please, it your tears are delicious.

Cameirus.8407:

You should never see thiefs jumping in to attack a large group and porting out with impunity.

I don’t see that sort of thing on my necromancer. They do the jumping in just fine, but getting away from a group a necro is near is much harder

Cameirus.8407:

Thiefs dont die…..they try to gank….and if that fails, run away with impunity.

No risk, highreward.

You should never see thiefs jumping in to attack a large group and porting out with impunity. They have too many escape options. Either make them hit like a wet blanket, or make them commit, if they dont get the kill, make them pay for it, not just be able to get away and try again.

Sooo, you want ANet to nerf a class just because you are bad at the game? lol

Thiefs = Assassins, and that is how assassins work, see an opportunity, take it, failed? bail out. How is what they do different than being an ele, using ride the lightning, spam all your skill and then portaling out? Eles should be nerfed too? pfffffffttttt!!!

I’m really trying to understand what is the issue specifically with thieves. Thieves have the lowest HP pool and medium armor. What do you want more?

Sometimes I feel like you all want to punish thieves who trait for the one trick pony backstab gimmick and at the same time punish those who prefer to sacrifice damage for mobility. I mean come on, can’t have it both ways.

Stealth is more than just going poof. It’s key for dealing damage with backstab (dagger), or sneak attack (pistol), and it’s more than that.

Some people just don’t know how to handle stealth. You can mind game folks into burning evades on nothing. That’s when you can start bringing more heat. Traits also let stealth be a source of regen, blind, and condition removal. Those let you stay in a fight longer. Keep in mind, in general, you don’t want to be in long fights. P/D’s sort of do, but once it gets past a certain point, no.

A well played thief with stealth is very annoying and survivable, but as a whole, thief is NOT a forgiving class. If you mess up, it hurts. Whiff a C&D and a fight gets way harder, whiffing 2 or in a crowd and you can be in a WvW of hurt.

Oh, and there are WvW/PvP generalizations, you’re supposed to beat this class, lose to this one, blah blah. It’s all about who you run into, what spec they’re in, you’re in, a lot of things. Personally, I beat most rangers and necros. Bursty thieves give me problems. Guardians usually sorta laugh at me and walk away while I plink at them. D/D eles make me wanna… do unhappy things to happy things.

All you can do is learn and keep playing and you do get better. Most people usually get better. Mostly. WvW is a different beast, because you can set yourself up to be a killer one-on-one burst beast rawr or someone who has options for when the entire zerg looks your way, and anything in between really.

When you do get owned, get over it (however long that takes) and then figure out what happened and why. That way leads to improvement in your play.

Play. Experiment. Check forums and blogs. Learn. Take all you see on forums with a grain of salt. Salty salt from the tears of whiners.

Cameirus.8407:

Zikory.6871:

I always hate to say it but its a L2 kitten ue. I play a thief and I die, other classes beat me. (And I’d like to think I’m a fairly good thief 1k+hours) I also play a Necro (badly I might add ~50 hours) and don’t have a issue killing thieves.

Most thieves won’t be in a rush to kill you, they will take there time and ware you down. This also (obviously) frustrates the enemy, making it easier to kill them. People say “just don’t fight thieves” because you sticking around in a 1v1 fight is what the thief wants, your playing his game. You running away makes it more likely that you’ll find people and put the thief at a large disadvantage and they don’t want that.

Thiefs dont die…..they try to gank….and if that fails, run away with impunity.

No risk, highreward.

You should never see thiefs jumping in to attack a large group and porting out with impunity. They have too many escape options. Either make them hit like a wet blanket, or make them commit, if they dont get the kill, make them pay for it, not just be able to get away and try again.

Couple things, First “able to get away and try again.” Why are you still standing there? You know the thief is going to come back…sounds like your playing into the thieves hand…Secondly thieves aren’t the only class that runs when they are losing…warriors and eles both have great ways to put massive distance between them and the enemy making it near impossible to chance up. And lastly why do you think your entitled to some honorable 1v1 “stay and fight” scenario in a open world PvP zone? That’s like saying all classes should stop trying to drag people in camps so the NCPs can help them, they should stand there and fight me…

Cameirus.8407:

No risk, high reward. You should never see thiefs jumping in to attack a large group and porting out with impunity.

Exactly, stealth is good because you shouldn’t see us, ever. (snerk)

Thieves, and every other class, control their risk vs reward with their weapon set, utilities, and play style. As attractive as it is, you can’t generalize an entire class like that. I know what you’re getting at, and yes, thieves can be very low risk if played that way.

A thief can be strong in an area or two, but they can’t be strong in all of them. It’s all give and take.

I’ll go into an engaged zerg BECAUSE I have escape options. I’m looking to be a distraction, stomp downed people, down very hurt people, or get my side back on their feet.

PS I love seeing the bursty stabby thieves. I wish I could give it a whirl, and one day I might, but personally I’m one of those evasive plink away folks; the sort that picks the fast nimble character that almost always comes with fast but low-powered attacks in video games.

Cameirus.8407:

Thiefs dont die…..they try to gank….and if that fails, run away with impunity.

No risk, high reward.

Considering how slow this is compared to zerging, I’d say it’s moderate risk, low reward. One arrow into a guy before he’s run over by 30 players gives the same reward.

But roaming can be challenging and require skill if try to take multiple opponents at a time.

I thought the thief QQ would be gone after culling was destroyed. I was wrong.

SmokeyNYY.7841:

I thought the thief QQ would be gone after culling was destroyed. I was wrong.

Post of the day. ^^

And look, someone who can admit they were wrong. About ANYTHING. How rare. (cheer & hugs)

SmokeyNYY.7841:

I thought the thief QQ would be gone after culling was destroyed. I was wrong.

To be fair, the QQ has died down a lot, but the 1st law of gaming states there will always be persistant complaining when someone loses.

I thought 1st Law o’ Gaming was “Do Unto Others Before They Do Unto You.”

OP, thieves die ALL the time (to me) regardless of if I’m playing warrior, ele or thief.

What you’re probably doing wrong is facerolling your keyboard on a thief with full HP like you do in zerg vs zerg and then raging and posting on forums when they burn one of their big escapes, get away, then come back and you have no burst and no CC left…

Your title and OP already reveals you’re doing-it-wrong.

Or else you came to WvW to find honorable 1v1s like a previous poster mentioned, in which case, I don’t even know… Every roaming class needs to invest a lot in escape skills and their job description doesn’t include honorable 1v1s (because they can’t 1v1 every class, called balance working as intended).

Arekai.5698:

Is this really how you’re supposed to fight in this game?
Fight to not win against a certain class?

Someone please enlighten me about this mechanic. Maybe i’m missing something because i can’t find the fun factor in that.

so he is not allowed to heal and remove conditions ?
Hey don’t use your skills, and i won;t use mine
you could ask mesmers not to dodge cause they spawn clones, or to elementalists not to change autuments, cause they receive boons

Arekai.5698:

Is this really how you’re supposed to fight in this game?
Fight to not win against a certain class?

Yes, builds precisely.
There are builds (and classes) that mathematically cannot do enough to kill a certain target (with lower dps output than that opponenet’s regen and dmg mitigation). There are also builds (and classes) that cannot kill anything. This game has lots lots of draws, winning is not always an option.

Couple of bunker builds (of different classes) are like that to thieves, and when those were played well, a thief simply cannot win.
That’s not to say thieves are the only ones having this draw issue. For instance, none of these bunker builds do any damage, they don’t win against anyone, any class any build, how you make of that?

There were also builds that could one shot a thief, there still are, some that down us squishy thieves so fast you might as well consider them one shots. Almost every class has dps oriented build options and you know how they say “the best defense is offense”?
Problem with that is, there are bunker thief builds too, and if you were a glass and he was a bunker thief, chances you’d die.

“Thiefs stealth in WVW”

Yes, correct, they certainly do

/close thread

Not everyone who plays wvw specs to win 1 v 1. Perma stealth thieves have uses, and it has nothing to do with dueling.

MrKnieves.4162:

Make a thief to learn how to counter them. Hint: It’s pretty easy.

Mesmers on the other hand… shudders

Same applies to Mesmer.

Since culling was fixed, I’ve noticed far less gank thieves in WvW. I see more using stealth to run away as opposed to getting a better backstab angle and regen’ing.

With culling gone things are a lot better. Now that the thief actually loads on your screen you should be able to handle them. I still die to thieves pretty often don’t get me wrong, but that’s because sometimes the thief is just better than I am.

Furiousbeard.7602:

“Thiefs stealth in WVW”

Yes, correct, they certainly do

/close thread

Not all of us. Some of us prefer to play thief builds with no stealth at all.

/re-open thread

the only really annoying ones are the permastealth thieves that troll around in keeps after u caped it.

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Furiousbeard.7602:

“Thiefs stealth in WVW”

Yes, correct, they certainly do

/close thread

Not all of us. Some of us prefer to play thief builds with no stealth at all.

/re-open thread

Thieves stealth or evade, sometimes even both or none at all. And they do this in WvW!

/re-close thread?

Zephyrus.9680:

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Furiousbeard.7602:

“Thiefs stealth in WVW”

Yes, correct, they certainly do

/close thread

Not all of us. Some of us prefer to play thief builds with no stealth at all.

/re-open thread

Thieves stealth or evade, sometimes even both or none at all. And they do this in WvW!

/re-close thread?

Those villains!

/yes

one good tip, if you see a thief just jump in a water. Thieves dont like water.

Arekai.5698:

Is this really how you’re supposed to fight in this game?
Fight to not win against a certain class?

Someone please enlighten me about this mechanic. Maybe i’m missing something because i can’t find the fun factor in that.

Since you asked him to give other defenses (why 10, can you name 10 for every class?) that a Thief has besides stealth. I’ll take a stab at this, as a Thief.

1) Stealth
2) Evasion – No other class has the amount of evasion we have, except for maybe the Elementalist.
3) Teleports – Infiltrators Arrow = 900 range that doesn’t require a target, and blinds, Infiltrators Strike = No range on the teleport back to said point. Shadow Steps Return.
4) Fear
5) Blind
6) Chill – An opponent moving 66% slower than you, can not catch you.
7) Cripple – An opponent moving 50% slower than you, can not catch you.
8) Stuns/Dazes

Yeah, I can’t name 10, but we have enough to stay alive, if used correctly. I run a non-stealth build, and I have no issues staying alive, or killing people.

jkctmc.8754:

Arekai.5698:

Is this really how you’re supposed to fight in this game?
Fight to not win against a certain class?

Someone please enlighten me about this mechanic. Maybe i’m missing something because i can’t find the fun factor in that.

Since you asked him to give other defenses (why 10, can you name 10 for every class?) that a Thief has besides stealth. I’ll take a stab at this, as a Thief.

1) Stealth
2) Evasion – No other class has the amount of evasion we have, except for maybe the Elementalist.
3) Teleports – Infiltrators Arrow = 900 range that doesn’t require a target, and blinds, Infiltrators Strike = No range on the teleport back to said point. Shadow Steps Return.
4) Fear
5) Blind
6) Chill – An opponent moving 66% slower than you, can not catch you.
7) Cripple – An opponent moving 50% slower than you, can not catch you.
8) Stuns/Dazes

Yeah, I can’t name 10, but we have enough to stay alive, if used correctly. I run a non-stealth build, and I have no issues staying alive, or killing people.

9) Stability
10) Traps

I admit its very annoying when you know you’ve outplayed a thief just to have them stealth at the last second and disappear off, never to be seen again. Its not really unique to them though.. d/d Eles are more or less impossible to catch and its also frustrating to see your hard earned kill disappear off. That doesnt make them OP though.

Oh hey it’s a ‘nerf thieves’ thread in 2013.

Cameirus.8407:

Zikory.6871:

I always hate to say it but its a L2 kitten ue. I play a thief and I die, other classes beat me. (And I’d like to think I’m a fairly good thief 1k+hours) I also play a Necro (badly I might add ~50 hours) and don’t have a issue killing thieves.

Most thieves won’t be in a rush to kill you, they will take there time and ware you down. This also (obviously) frustrates the enemy, making it easier to kill them. People say “just don’t fight thieves” because you sticking around in a 1v1 fight is what the thief wants, your playing his game. You running away makes it more likely that you’ll find people and put the thief at a large disadvantage and they don’t want that.

Thiefs dont die…..they try to gank….and if that fails, run away with impunity.

No risk, highreward.

You should never see thiefs jumping in to attack a large group and porting out with impunity. They have too many escape options. Either make them hit like a wet blanket, or make them commit, if they dont get the kill, make them pay for it, not just be able to get away and try again.

Escape options, on a thief? Gasp! No! I wonder why they even called him a thief when a thief can’t a escape in real life! Oh wait!

well, what can we say.. that’s the mechanics ANET designed for thief. hit hard and run if fail, cowardly i should say, but that’s the way thief is played, because you never see a thief that does not stealth…..

my opinion is leave the stealth, but nerf the single target burst damage OPness, because stealth itself is already OP….

azizul.8469:

well, what can we say.. that’s the mechanics ANET designed for thief. hit hard and run if fail, cowardly i should say, but that’s the way thief is played, because you never see a thief that does not stealth…..

my opinion is leave the stealth, but nerf the single target burst damage OPness, because stealth itself is already OP….

I could easily live with that. I’m a thief but don’t rely on burst or CnD, and the main reason I rolled it is because I was just tired of moving like I had lead feet on my other toons. I prefer to use mobility but I use stealth because I can trait it for heals and condition removal. A thief without stealth is a really stupid idea, but a thief without burst is … in my opinion … still perfectly viable.

MrKnieves.4162:

Cameirus.8407:

Thiefs dont die…..they try to gank….and if that fails, run away with impunity.

No risk, highreward.

You should never see thiefs jumping in to attack a large group and porting out with impunity. They have too many escape options. Either make them hit like a wet blanket, or make them commit, if they dont get the kill, make them pay for it, not just be able to get away and try again.

Sooo, you want ANet to nerf a class just because you are bad at the game? lol

Thiefs = Assassins, and that is how assassins work, see an opportunity, take it, failed? bail out. How is what they do different than being an ele, using ride the lightning, spam all your skill and then portaling out? Eles should be nerfed too? pfffffffttttt!!!

Insulting people just means you have no valid point.

Lore reasons donot excuse bad game design

Hello,

Since this thread is not inviting to constructive & healthy discussion, it is now closed.

Furthermore, if you want to share feedback about a particular class, please submit it in the appropriate sub-forum.

Thank you for your understanding.