Guild Wars 2

ok fine they can have burst, they can have speed. But can we please put a 10 sec stealth timer? I’m getting sick of fighting an opponent that you can’t target for 1/2 of the fight.

I have a no stealth evade tank build ready to go for the day you QQers manage to get Anet to destroy the Thief class with a change like this. It’s so much easier than learning to combat the mechanic.

Stiv.1820:

I have a no stealth evade tank build ready to go for the day you QQers manage to get Anet to destroy the Thief class with a change like this. It’s so much easier than learning to combat the mechanic.

This is me, when the whiners finally get Anet to over kill a class they created I have a tanky super vit high condition dmg build and gear set that honestly when I use it people have more problems with me than when I play my burst or stealth builds. I also want people to ask themselves, would you rather lose to a thief fast or waste 5m of your time and then lose? I will be gloating when I waste 3 players time for 5m instead of killing them “sometimes” 1v3 in 1m.

Stiv.1820:

I have a no stealth evade tank build ready to go for the day you QQers manage to get Anet to destroy the Thief class with a change like this. It’s so much easier than learning to combat the mechanic.

At least we will have a target

Sure you do that. Stealth in this game is just dumb. No timer, you can stealth anytime, nothing stop stealth , nothing knock people out of stealth . Imaging if warrior had an ability that let them hit you and get invulnerable for 3 secs with no cool down. Even if that was the case I still rather fight a warrior. In that case I can at least keep my target on him and chase him down or back away.

Mogar.9216:

Sure you do that. Stealth in this game is just dumb. No timer, you can stealth anytime, nothing stop stealth , nothing knock people out of stealth . Imaging if warrior had an ability that let them hit you and get invulnerable for 3 secs with no cool down. Even if that was the case I still rather fight a warrior. In that case I can at least keep my target on him and chase him down or back away.

This is a typical post from a typical player who doesn’t understand the game mechanics. Play a Thief to ~ level 30 and get your learn on, it will help you fight them.

If you aren’t willing to learn the mechanics of the other professions to PvP against them, then you honestly don’t have anything to complain about.

edit: Here is my favorite case study quote on this topic:

“MrSilver.5269:
I hate to admit it, but I was here QQing for the better part of the last week or so. I then decided to roll a thief just to play around with the mechanics to better understand the class.
I only got to level 31ish so although I’m no expert, I now understand the class much better now, and went back to the drawing board to change my entire engineer spec. I was hesitant to do so because I was concerned as an engineer I would hit like a wet noodle. Yes, my damage did take a slight hit, but not as much as I thought due to a mechanic of one of the engineer’s utility skills that evens the playing field considerably. The funny thing is that the solution was sitting right in front of me, and I just didn’t see it.
In any event, the long of the short of it is that by figuring out how to counter the thief, I stumbled upon a MUCH more durable version of the engineer that I am REALLY enjoying playing.
So, I’m here to formally apologize for my QQ.
SORRY!!!!!”

Stiv.1820:

Mogar.9216:

Sure you do that. Stealth in this game is just dumb. No timer, you can stealth anytime, nothing stop stealth , nothing knock people out of stealth . Imaging if warrior had an ability that let them hit you and get invulnerable for 3 secs with no cool down. Even if that was the case I still rather fight a warrior. In that case I can at least keep my target on him and chase him down or back away.

This is a typical post from a typical player who doesn’t understand the game mechanics. Play a Thief to ~ level 30 and get your learn on, it will help you fight them.

If you aren’t willing to learn the mechanics of the other professions to PvP against them, then you honestly don’t have anything to complain about.

You are a typical player who plays a typical thief who doesn’t know the potential of your own class. I have no problem with 90% of the thieves out there thank god they are bad like you. But the few who does know the class and ‘abuse’ stealth is just dumb. But you would have a clue what I’m talking about anyway.

Mogar.9216:

Stiv.1820:

Mogar.9216:

Sure you do that. Stealth in this game is just dumb. No timer, you can stealth anytime, nothing stop stealth , nothing knock people out of stealth . Imaging if warrior had an ability that let them hit you and get invulnerable for 3 secs with no cool down. Even if that was the case I still rather fight a warrior. In that case I can at least keep my target on him and chase him down or back away.

This is a typical post from a typical player who doesn’t understand the game mechanics. Play a Thief to ~ level 30 and get your learn on, it will help you fight them.

If you aren’t willing to learn the mechanics of the other professions to PvP against them, then you honestly don’t have anything to complain about.

You are a typical player who plays a typical thief who doesn’t know the potential of your own class. I have no problem with 90% of the thieves out there thank god they are bad like you. But the few who does know the class and ‘abuse’ stealth is just dumb. But you would have a clue what I’m talking about anyway.

So you are complaining about someone being skilled with there class and you didn’t like it/or got owned? I can say the same about every class when the player is very skilled with it.

brandon.6735:

Mogar.9216:

Stiv.1820:

Mogar.9216:

Sure you do that. Stealth in this game is just dumb. No timer, you can stealth anytime, nothing stop stealth , nothing knock people out of stealth . Imaging if warrior had an ability that let them hit you and get invulnerable for 3 secs with no cool down. Even if that was the case I still rather fight a warrior. In that case I can at least keep my target on him and chase him down or back away.

This is a typical post from a typical player who doesn’t understand the game mechanics. Play a Thief to ~ level 30 and get your learn on, it will help you fight them.

If you aren’t willing to learn the mechanics of the other professions to PvP against them, then you honestly don’t have anything to complain about.

You are a typical player who plays a typical thief who doesn’t know the potential of your own class. I have no problem with 90% of the thieves out there thank god they are bad like you. But the few who does know the class and ‘abuse’ stealth is just dumb. But you would have a clue what I’m talking about anyway.

So you are complaining about someone being skilled with there class and you didn’t like it/or got owned? I can say the same about every class when the player is very skilled with it.

I’m saying stealth is dumb. It’s NOT FUN to fight someone you can’t target for 1/2 the fight. I’m saying give thieve more stuff if they have to but fix stealth. I just want 10 secs of fight time between each stealth , heck give me 5 I’d be happy.

I’m going to refer to the wonderful “I used to QQ until I rolled a thief” post above.

I used to have some issues with thieves… I now have a lvl 56 thief and well…. I rarely lose to other thieves anymore, unless I"m playing my own thief and they outplay and outgear me due to my being a much lower level.

ANYONE will be hard as hell to beat if they are really good, thieves are no exception. You can’t complain that “90% of thieves suck and you can deal with them”…. so, you’re saying you should be able to beat everyone, but since 10% of them are good and beat you, they need nerfed? I hate to play this card but it sounds like a L2P issue.

The only thing that needs ‘changed’ at all is that the rendering issues need fixed.

Mogar.9216:

Stiv.1820:

Mogar.9216:

Sure you do that. Stealth in this game is just dumb. No timer, you can stealth anytime, nothing stop stealth , nothing knock people out of stealth . Imaging if warrior had an ability that let them hit you and get invulnerable for 3 secs with no cool down. Even if that was the case I still rather fight a warrior. In that case I can at least keep my target on him and chase him down or back away.

This is a typical post from a typical player who doesn’t understand the game mechanics. Play a Thief to ~ level 30 and get your learn on, it will help you fight them.

If you aren’t willing to learn the mechanics of the other professions to PvP against them, then you honestly don’t have anything to complain about.

You are a typical player who plays a typical thief who doesn’t know the potential of your own class. I have no problem with 90% of the thieves out there thank god they are bad like you. But the few who does know the class and ‘abuse’ stealth is just dumb. But you would have a clue what I’m talking about anyway.

Whatever you want to believe there big guy. How about I just point out all the inaccuracies of your previous post:

“No timer, you can stealth anytime”

- false, 3 second debuff that prevents stealth on attack from stealth. If you are dying to someone who is attacking you with no stealth opener then you are hopeless.

“nothing knock people out of stealth”

false, any knock back or pull can pull us out of Shadow Refuge within the first 4 seconds. These also effect people in stealth, look at guardians dropping the field keeping stealthers in place.

“you and get invulnerable for 3 secs”

false, stealth is not equal to invulnerability. They can be hit like anyone else.

Kneemin.4235:

The only thing that needs ‘changed’ at all is that the rendering issues need fixed.

^This. Thieves are fine, maybe a little OP but in most games stealth classes are harder to catch for a reason. We get the rendering issue set and I suspect there will be less QQ about theives.

Kneemin.4235:

I’m going to refer to the wonderful “I used to QQ until I rolled a thief” post above.

I used to have some issues with thieves… I now have a lvl 56 thief and well…. I rarely lose to other thieves anymore, unless I"m playing my own thief and they outplay and outgear me due to my being a much lower level.

ANYONE will be hard as hell to beat if they are really good, thieves are no exception. You can’t complain that “90% of thieves suck and you can deal with them”…. so, you’re saying you should be able to beat everyone, but since 10% of them are good and beat you, they need nerfed? I hate to play this card but it sounds like a L2P issue.

The only thing that needs ‘changed’ at all is that the rendering issues need fixed.

Read my post man I’m saying stealth is dumb. A thief can lose a fight stealth away and come back . So I’m forced to fight the same fight over and over and over again. Since he is faster than me I can’t even walk away from the fight. That is dumb. I’m saying buff the thief if they have to but fix stealth.
I got killed by a thief 5 times in a roll today in wvw but I’m not pissed at all cause he out played me and it was kinda fun. What made me write this post was an encounter with another thief that I had no problem at all but every time he was about to die he ran off , then came back again . It was just dumb. I basically fought the same fight 5 times maybe 6 times in the end I just gave up and let him kill me cause I didn’t feel like wasting time anymore.

Thorgrum.4679:

Kneemin.4235:

The only thing that needs ‘changed’ at all is that the rendering issues need fixed.

^This. Thieves are fine, maybe a little OP but in most games stealth classes are harder to catch for a reason. We get the rendering issue set and I suspect there will be less QQ about theives.

The OP isn’t complaining about rendering though. He’s QQing about x/D builds and/or a D/P build that if traited for perma stealth does terrible damage and is only good at killing uplevled or bads and trolling supply camps.

You need a root or stun Mogar.

Stiv.1820:

Thorgrum.4679:

Kneemin.4235:

The only thing that needs ‘changed’ at all is that the rendering issues need fixed.

^This. Thieves are fine, maybe a little OP but in most games stealth classes are harder to catch for a reason. We get the rendering issue set and I suspect there will be less QQ about theives.

The OP isn’t complaining about rendering though. He’s QQing about x/D builds and/or a D/P build that if traited for perma stealth does terrible damage and is only good at killing uplevled or bads and trolling supply camps.

Basically this. Sitting on the camp with 10 people, one thief blocks the capture for twenty minutes. We killed a number of Dolyaks, the group that came to try and push us off (twice), but we couldn’t get the capture bar past 1/5 because a single thief was able to permastealth and line of sight around buildings until the group finally gave up. It’s beyond stupid. The capture circle is large enough that you can’t smoke the thief out with AoEs, and any group of enough size to not get pushed off easy has so many targets for Cloak and Dagger that the thief doesn’t get caught. Even landing stuns isn’t enough.

Zilm.8459:

Stiv.1820:

I have a no stealth evade tank build ready to go for the day you QQers manage to get Anet to destroy the Thief class with a change like this. It’s so much easier than learning to combat the mechanic.

At least we will have a target

But you still wont be able to hit us because of blind.

“No timer, you can stealth anytime”

- false, 3 second debuff that prevents stealth on attack from stealth. If you are dying to someone who is attacking you with no stealth opener then you are hopeless.
>>>>>>
3 second debuff = no debuff. If you read my post at all you’ll know this is about thieves getting away. I’m not saying anything about die stealth.

“nothing knock people out of stealth”

false, any knock back or pull can pull us out of Shadow Refuge within the first 4 seconds. These also effect people in stealth, look at guardians dropping the field keeping stealthers in place.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
You can’t knock back or pull something you have no target on. Unless you have ground targeted ae which few class have or use

“you and get invulnerable for 3 secs”

false, stealth is not equal to invulnerability. They can be hit like anyone else.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
learn to read I’m saying I rather fight someone who gets invulnerable but visible than someone whom I can’t target . You can’t hit someone you can’t target, I have to save my long kitten timer insta pt blank ae just to hope to get the hit in before a thief is gone when he stealth. My ae timer is on 20 secs your stealth is 3 secs that really helps.

Elthurien.8356:

Zilm.8459:

Stiv.1820:

I have a no stealth evade tank build ready to go for the day you QQers manage to get Anet to destroy the Thief class with a change like this. It’s so much easier than learning to combat the mechanic.

At least we will have a target

But you still wont be able to hit us because of blind.

But at least I would be able to see you on my screen!

After re-reading your invuln comment I see what you tried to say and you know what, I’d take that over stealth any day. That would be much more powerful than stealth. The fact you think it isn’t is further proof you don’t really understand the mechanic.

Every few days, someone puts a “I Hate Thiefs” thread up in the WvW section. And it always results in the same debate, with the same comebacks from both sides.

Here’s the reality: If you wear leather or cloth armor, you’re gonna get ruined by a decent thief when you’re alone, the majority of the time. Every class has their place/role in WvW and don’t forget… Every server has thiefs, so while your Elementalist is getting torn apart by another server’s Thief… thieves in your server are tearing apart the opposing server’s elementalists, etc.

If you dont wanna get ruined by a thief, travel with a safety buddy, a zerg, stay by npc’s, or become a thief yourself.

It’s a dynamic of the game, accept it, and keep playing.

Yep ran into two of them last night. While on my mesmer I soon found out that none of the clone explosions abilities had any effect. I would have to assume that moa poly would stop the thief’s ability to vanish?

I do agree that more counters need to be added for different classes against this hit and run build. Item such as if dotted you will break stealth etc.. Just wondering how other classes counter this build.

My guild mate after seeing this class build dropped his current theif build and respected for this for lack of a better term a peek a boo build.

I took the l2p people’s advice and made a thief to learn about it. After about my fourth match with a thief, I was able to face roll 90% of players in 2 seconds and was consistently the highest scoring player on my team. If a player was smart enough to survive, I just stealth and run away, then come back later when they aren’t prepared and murder them before they know what happened. The thief is my new main, all these people complaining about thief burst and thief stealth need to learn to play the game.

FormulaX.8901:

Every few days, someone puts a “I Hate Thiefs” thread up in the WvW section. And it always results in the same debate, with the same comebacks from both sides.

Here’s the reality: If you wear leather or cloth armor, you’re gonna get ruined by a decent thief when you’re alone, the majority of the time. Every class has their place/role in WvW and don’t forget… Every server has thiefs, so while your Elementalist is getting torn apart by another server’s Thief… thieves in your server are tearing apart the opposing server’s elementalists, etc.

If you dont wanna get ruined by a thief, travel with a safety buddy, a zerg, stay by npc’s, or become a thief yourself.

It’s a dynamic of the game, accept it, and keep playing.

It’s not profession based at all. It’s everyone’s stubbornness to go glass cannon. Ask any decent D/D ele with some bunker if they have any problems with these thieves. Bunker guardians and Warriors can tank multiple stealth spam thieves indefinitely. Condition swap necros are a straight up hard counter to this spec. Net spam engines help groups destroy them and yes Moa is IWin against them especially if you are in a group.

Everything has a counter, the era of glass cannon is over. OP can Adapt or make QQ threads.

So everyone has to use build to counter thieves to play WvW. Why must everyone change play because of one class? Sorry WvW is not one on one making stealth stupid OP without any class having a stealth counter. The fact that thieves are the most play class tells right there they are OP period and Anet to stupid too see that.

Mogar.9216:

You can’t knock back or pull something you have no target on. Unless you have ground targeted ae which few class have or use

Which class doesn’t have an AoE attack that doesn’t require a target?

I can’t think of one.

Dealing with stealth isn’t necessarily easy, but it isn’t all that hard either. Add to that, most players get tunnel vision and are easily baited. Just do something stupid looking, wait for the smoke puff near you, and dodge/pop a defensive cooldown.

If you see the little house icon AoE the crud out of it (this includes sword swings, etc.) You’ll usually see the thief dodge out the other side of his house and you can click on them again.

It is called balance. Give an ability and it should have a counter for balance. So we should give mesmers perm stealth and you are good with that… Oh please get real. Perm stealth was not added to the game unlike most other online game for Rogue for a reason. Anet I am sure can expand on the reason, since this is the case it seems that they have failed to provide sufficent counters for each class specific to this kind of build.

So no you cannot have your “I Win Button” build as if history of online shows us in time even the Dev’s wise up and nerf that kind of build. Denying the truth does not make it real.

Galantis.3267:

So everyone has to use build to counter thieves to play WvW. Why must everyone change play because of one class? Sorry WvW is not one on one making stealth stupid OP without any class having a stealth counter. The fact that thieves are the most play class tells right there they are OP period and Anet to stupid too see that.

You have facts on that? When I WvW i do see thieves but i also seen tons of ele, memser, and warriors.

Galantis.3267:

So everyone has to use build to counter thieves to play WvW. Why must everyone change play because of one class? Sorry WvW is not one on one making stealth stupid OP without any class having a stealth counter. The fact that thieves are the most play class tells right there they are OP period and Anet to stupid too see that.

So your build counters everything but one profession’s build? You want that one profession nerfed to not counter your build?

This game is full of hard choices. Do you slot a stun break to deal with stun/burst or use something more “fun”? It’s up to you. I would think if the Thief profession gives you the most trouble, you would consider trying to counter it but that’s just me.

I thought thieves where OP, then I rolled one and it was confirmed.

The skill level for a thief is actually quite low. Sure some are good and will eradicate you fast, but others are just bad but will still eradicate you fast.
Sure, claim that ‘heatseaker spam is bad’, but well – it still does way more damage and faster than many other classes can do. And then add in the huge backstabs and steal and well ….

I guess it’s easier to close ones eyes and pretend everybody else just “don’t get it”. All things equal in ability and player skill and a thief will burst down most any build and class.
Heck, my L30 even soloed a L80 guardian. Only struggles with other thieves or the occasional mesmer which uses his stealth and clone’s good.

And funnily enough – the PvP nerfs seems to indicate the power level, but for ANet WvW is still PvE…. (explains a lot actually)

Xandax.1753:

I thought thieves where OP, then I rolled one and it was confirmed.

The skill level for a thief is actually quite low. Sure some are good and will eradicate you fast, but others are just bad but will still eradicate you fast.
Sure, claim that ‘heatseaker spam is bad’, but well – it still does way more damage and faster than many other classes can do. And then add in the huge backstabs and steal and well ….

I guess it’s easier to close ones eyes and pretend everybody else just “don’t get it”. All things equal in ability and player skill and a thief will burst down most any build and class.
Heck, my L30 even soloed a L80 guardian. Only struggles with other thieves or the occasional mesmer which uses his stealth and clone’s good.

And funnily enough – the PvP nerfs seems to indicate the power level, but for ANet WvW is still PvE…. (explains a lot actually)

This thread isn’t even directed at burst thieves. Heartseeker spam? If you really have trouble with this then I’m sorry.

Like I said before. Everyone is insisting on going glass cannon. I have 21K HP and over 2500 armor. I don’t even have to stunbreak but I still slot one. I eat Glass Cannon thieves, they are my favorite to kill.

I guess I look at from the feed back from other Thief players. The most comments are:

1. Wow my thief does not feel as squishes as all the other classes
2. Man I can get out of anything with my Theif

Once they see the Stealth/crit build they all say whoa, that is awesome they cannot even fight back. (respected).

Hehe so ya, it needs attention as the class without the pee a boo ability is just fine and feared as it should be.

You know the sad part about this whole post is that, if I break down the mechanics more I would only educate more thieves. So I’ll just go back to what I posted.

It is NOT FUN to fight someone whom you can’t target 1/2 of the time. please do something about it.

BubbaLicous.1328:

I guess I look at from the feed back from other Thief players. The most comments are:

1. Wow my thief does not feel as squishes as all the other classes
2. Man I can get out of anything with my Theif

Once they see the Stealth/crit build they all say whoa, that is awesome they cannot even fight back. (respected).

Hehe so ya, it needs attention as the class without the pee a boo ability is just fine and feared as it should be.

“pee a boo” thieves are countered by any bunker build and hard countered vs condition swap necros and good d/d eles. These thieves are hard counters to glass cannon builds. What is the problem here? The fact that the vast majority in WvW run glass cannon? Yep.

Stiv.1820:

Like I said before. Everyone is insisting on going glass cannon. I have 21K HP and over 2500 armor. I don’t even have to stunbreak but I still slot one. I eat Glass Cannon thieves, they are my favorite to kill.

I agree with you stiv, I dont want a tanky Ranger… Id rather have a tanky warrior, I try to counter thieves with traps. It works well sometimes. And its hard to think of an elementalist as a tank build.

People forget this MMO is different from others in that you can build each class as you want them, and that there are no dedicated healers. (I used to play EQ2)

Mogar.9216:

You know the sad part about this whole post is that, if I break down the mechanics more I would only educate more thieves. So I’ll just go back to what I posted.

It is NOT FUN to fight someone whom you can’t target 1/2 of the time. please do something about it.

Completely agree ^

I often wonder if I’m playing the same game as everyone else.

Thieves aren’t really that big a deal to me. If they spot me at low health they usually kill me. If not, they usually skip over me or fail their opener. If they land their opener I usually can get away or heal or CC them out of the fight. Either way, win or lose, they usually get creamed by someone that noticed them beating on me. If they’re really good they can occasionally get away, but their builds don’t tend to leave a lot of escapes in. Most of the time they’ve blown all their cooldowns on that one gank, and are hoping they can shortbow away.

That’s your basic glass-cannon setup that I see all over the place.

There are other builds that use stealth more, are more resilient, maybe more mobile. They’re harder to fight against, and can basically leave the fight whenever they want to. They also do way less damage. Good for them. They designed the build to be mobile and durable, and sacrificed damage to do it.

Do I, personally, find stealth to be an annoying mechanic? Yes, but that’s because it keeps me from getting easy kills. Do I think it should be nerfed/removed? No! I don’t even play a thief and I see no problems with it. It’s got sufficient limits to make it a royal PITA to use, and other players can usually do stuff to negate how effective it is.

FormulaX.8901:

Stiv.1820:

Like I said before. Everyone is insisting on going glass cannon. I have 21K HP and over 2500 armor. I don’t even have to stunbreak but I still slot one. I eat Glass Cannon thieves, they are my favorite to kill.

I agree with you stiv, I dont want a tanky Ranger… Id rather have a tanky warrior, I try to counter thieves with traps. It works well sometimes. And its hard to think of an elementalist as a tank build.

People forget this MMO is different from others in that you can build each class as you want them, and that there are no dedicated healers. (I used to play EQ2)

Rangers in my humble opinion have the shortest end of the stick. I was looking forward to some good ranger buffs this last patch but oh well :/

If anyone has a right to complain about balance it’s rangers in general as I feel they are weak. Their burst builds aren’t as bursty as others and their tanky builds aren’t as tanky.

This is a good discussion. So lets take a mesmer build Vs a pee a boo rogue. You state that knockdowns and pulling will hold the thief out of stealth or just interupt?

So a mesmers clones, phantasms and shatters are all void against that build.
If correct then the only thing a mesmer could use would be possibly a Moa Morph or into the void pull? Would these stop the thief from vanishing again for any amount of time?

Do tell…..

PinCushion.7390:

I often wonder if I’m playing the same game as everyone else.

Thieves aren’t really that big a deal to me. If they spot me at low health they usually kill me. If not, they usually skip over me or fail their opener. If they land their opener I usually can get away or heal or CC them out of the fight. Either way, win or lose, they usually get creamed by someone that noticed them beating on me. If they’re really good they can occasionally get away, but their builds don’t tend to leave a lot of escapes in. Most of the time they’ve blown all their cooldowns on that one gank, and are hoping they can shortbow away.

That’s your basic glass-cannon setup that I see all over the place.

There are other builds that use stealth more, are more resilient, maybe more mobile. They’re harder to fight against, and can basically leave the fight whenever they want to. They also do way less damage. Good for them. They designed the build to be mobile and durable, and sacrificed damage to do it.

Do I, personally, find stealth to be an annoying mechanic? Yes, but that’s because it keeps me from getting easy kills. Do I think it should be nerfed/removed? No! I don’t even play a thief and I see no problems with it. It’s got sufficient limits to make it a royal PITA to use, and other players can usually do stuff to negate how effective it is.

You are playing the same game. It’s just that Anet balances around people like you and not people like the OP. They want their sPvP and tPvP to be successful so professions are balanced around the idea everyone knows how to play and knows how to counter everything else. In tPvP this is pretty much the case. In WvW, not so much, you got people like the OP running around everywhere. They think they are good but they are not. They don’t even bother to educate themselves on the abilities of other classes and choose to QQ on the forums instead.

The only legit complaint that I completely agree with that the PvP rule set should apply to WvW.

BubbaLicous.1328:

This is a good discussion. So lets take a mesmer build Vs a pee a boo rogue. You state that knockdowns and pulling will hold the thief out of stealth or just interupt?

So a mesmers clones, phantasms and shatters are all void against that build.
If correct then the only thing a mesmer could use would be possibly a Moa Morph or into the void pull? Would these stop the thief from vanishing again for any amount of time?

Do tell…..

I play a mesmer as well and I use sword/focus instead of sword/pistol just for thieves (well and because it’s just insanely fun in zerg vs zerg too). I also use Moa. The focus#4 pull placed on any edge of Shadow Refuge as soon as it’s placed will yank them out. These thieves will usually use SR when they are in the most dire of situations so this almost always nets a kill. Otherwise, Moa when they are at 75% is a free kill as well (yes it prevents stealth from their own abilities for the entire duration).

Also if you get Sword#3-2 off on them and they vanish, still BF the spot, 8/10 they are dead in front of you in stealth. If you look at the ground and there is a white circle, they shadow-stepped away and are not there.

Mogar.9216:

You know the sad part about this whole post is that, if I break down the mechanics more I would only educate more thieves. So I’ll just go back to what I posted.

It is NOT FUN to fight someone whom you can’t target 1/2 of the time. please do something about it.

You know what is sadder, you act all big but don’t listen to advice on how to counter.
The kind of thief people moan about:

Thief = Squishy
Thief = High damage
Thief = Low amount of stealth’s
Thief = Low initiative regeneration

Counter with

Toughness
Vitality
Dodge roll
Then face roll when they’re out of initiative

I could just as easily, as you have about stealth, say most classes in the game aren’t fun to fight:

Warrior: Omg it’s totally no fun to fight someone who is about to die but goes huehuehue invulnerability. Worse yet, when you down them they get up again. What BS is that. Not fun.

Mesmer: Geez guys, the Mesmer not only has stealth so I can’t see them sometimes but also Mesmer’s get loads of clones so I don’t know what to target. I might as well not even try, no fun.

Etc….

Thief is fine
Rendering is not fine

Oddly enough I rarely have trouble verses Thieves… must be something to do with having played that class. See the most stupid things posted about Thieves sometimes such as shortbow 5 being spammable being one of my favourite examples.

Stiv.1820:

PinCushion.7390:

I often wonder if I’m playing the same game as everyone else.

Thieves aren’t really that big a deal to me. If they spot me at low health they usually kill me. If not, they usually skip over me or fail their opener. If they land their opener I usually can get away or heal or CC them out of the fight. Either way, win or lose, they usually get creamed by someone that noticed them beating on me. If they’re really good they can occasionally get away, but their builds don’t tend to leave a lot of escapes in. Most of the time they’ve blown all their cooldowns on that one gank, and are hoping they can shortbow away.

That’s your basic glass-cannon setup that I see all over the place.

There are other builds that use stealth more, are more resilient, maybe more mobile. They’re harder to fight against, and can basically leave the fight whenever they want to. They also do way less damage. Good for them. They designed the build to be mobile and durable, and sacrificed damage to do it.

Do I, personally, find stealth to be an annoying mechanic? Yes, but that’s because it keeps me from getting easy kills. Do I think it should be nerfed/removed? No! I don’t even play a thief and I see no problems with it. It’s got sufficient limits to make it a royal PITA to use, and other players can usually do stuff to negate how effective it is.

You are playing the same game. It’s just that Anet balances around people like you and not people like the OP. They want their sPvP and tPvP to be successful so professions are balanced around the idea everyone knows how to play and knows how to counter everything else. In tPvP this is pretty much the case. In WvW, not so much, you got people like the OP running around everywhere. They think they are good but they are not. They don’t even bother to educate themselves on the abilities of other classes and choose to QQ on the forums instead.

The only legit complaint that I completely agree with that the PvP rule set should apply to WvW.

Funny thing you have no idea who I am what I play and I don’t think you even read my post. All I read from you is that OP must be a bad player who plays glass cannon . I don’t play glass cannon, I’m not qqing about dying to thief. All I’m saying is that it is not fun to fight someone whom you can’t target for 1/2 of the fight. It’s a design flaw that should be addressed.

It’s about class builds Mogar.

Mogar.9216:

Stiv.1820:

PinCushion.7390:

I often wonder if I’m playing the same game as everyone else.

Thieves aren’t really that big a deal to me. If they spot me at low health they usually kill me. If not, they usually skip over me or fail their opener. If they land their opener I usually can get away or heal or CC them out of the fight. Either way, win or lose, they usually get creamed by someone that noticed them beating on me. If they’re really good they can occasionally get away, but their builds don’t tend to leave a lot of escapes in. Most of the time they’ve blown all their cooldowns on that one gank, and are hoping they can shortbow away.

That’s your basic glass-cannon setup that I see all over the place.

There are other builds that use stealth more, are more resilient, maybe more mobile. They’re harder to fight against, and can basically leave the fight whenever they want to. They also do way less damage. Good for them. They designed the build to be mobile and durable, and sacrificed damage to do it.

Do I, personally, find stealth to be an annoying mechanic? Yes, but that’s because it keeps me from getting easy kills. Do I think it should be nerfed/removed? No! I don’t even play a thief and I see no problems with it. It’s got sufficient limits to make it a royal PITA to use, and other players can usually do stuff to negate how effective it is.

You are playing the same game. It’s just that Anet balances around people like you and not people like the OP. They want their sPvP and tPvP to be successful so professions are balanced around the idea everyone knows how to play and knows how to counter everything else. In tPvP this is pretty much the case. In WvW, not so much, you got people like the OP running around everywhere. They think they are good but they are not. They don’t even bother to educate themselves on the abilities of other classes and choose to QQ on the forums instead.

The only legit complaint that I completely agree with that the PvP rule set should apply to WvW.

Funny thing you have no idea who I am what I play and I don’t think you even read my post. All I read from you is that OP must be a bad player who plays glass cannon . I don’t play glass cannon, I’m not qqing about dying to thief. All I’m saying is that it is not fun to fight someone whom you can’t target for 1/2 of the fight. It’s a design flaw that should be addressed.

It is exactly the design of the profession! That’s why there is only 3 seconds of revealed. Anet stated it’s part of the thief design that they are slippery and just barely slip through your fingers. You aren’t complain about a flaw, you are just complaining. No matter what class you play you have counters you are refusing to use.

Katsumoto.9452:

Mogar.9216:

You know the sad part about this whole post is that, if I break down the mechanics more I would only educate more thieves. So I’ll just go back to what I posted.

It is NOT FUN to fight someone whom you can’t target 1/2 of the time. please do something about it.

You know what is sadder, you act all big but don’t listen to advice on how to counter.
The kind of thief people moan about:

Thief = Squishy
Thief = High damage
Thief = Low amount of stealth’s
Thief = Low initiative regeneration

Counter with

Toughness
Vitality
Dodge roll
Then face roll when they’re out of initiative

I could just as easily, as you have about stealth, say most classes in the game aren’t fun to fight:

Warrior: Omg it’s totally no fun to fight someone who is about to die but goes huehuehue invulnerability. Worse yet, when you down them they get up again. What BS is that. Not fun.

Mesmer: Geez guys, the Mesmer not only has stealth so I can’t see them sometimes but also Mesmer’s get loads of clones so I don’t know what to target. I might as well not even try, no fun.

Etc….

Thief is fine
Rendering is not fine

Oddly enough I rarely have trouble verses Thieves… must be something to do with having played that class. See the most stupid things posted about Thieves sometimes such as shortbow 5 being spammable being one of my favourite examples.

I highly recommend reading my posts first before replying.

Mogar.9216:

ok fine they can have burst, they can have speed. But can we please put a 10 sec stealth timer? I’m getting sick of fighting an opponent that you can’t target for 1/2 of the fight.

no stealth = no backstab – you shot 2 rabbits with an single bullet
Smart

or you want me to continue: – no backstab = no burst
now let’s check the traits:
shadow’s embarace – remove 1 condition every 3 seconds while stealthed = remove 1 condition every 13 seconds after you use an utility
Infusion of shadow gain 2 initiative when you stealth 2 initiative every 10 seconds after you use an utility
Cloaked in shadow – going stealth blind foes – same story 10 seconds + 1 utility
Patience regain initiative faster in stealth
and now traits in the big last line : 25-30
Hidden assasin – might every time you go stealth
hideen killer – 100% critical chance on stealth
shadow’s embarance – regenerate health in stealth

Ok fine let’s say we agree with you:
what would you give in exchange for our defence, our burst, and our traits

just fix the culling problem. barring that, adjust stealth to compensate for the culling problem. thieves on their own aren’t the issue. If they spec for permastealth they are a minor annoyance. the dps specced ones are getting a lot of help from the culling issues.

Stiv.1820:

FormulaX.8901:

Stiv.1820:

Like I said before. Everyone is insisting on going glass cannon. I have 21K HP and over 2500 armor. I don’t even have to stunbreak but I still slot one. I eat Glass Cannon thieves, they are my favorite to kill.

I agree with you stiv, I dont want a tanky Ranger… Id rather have a tanky warrior, I try to counter thieves with traps. It works well sometimes. And its hard to think of an elementalist as a tank build.

People forget this MMO is different from others in that you can build each class as you want them, and that there are no dedicated healers. (I used to play EQ2)

Rangers in my humble opinion have the shortest end of the stick. I was looking forward to some good ranger buffs this last patch but oh well :/

If anyone has a right to complain about balance it’s rangers in general as I feel they are weak. Their burst builds aren’t as bursty as others and their tanky builds aren’t as tanky.

Honest question. How should rangers deal with Thieves? At best, I can entangle and run away, but that sucks.

Katsumoto.9452:

Mogar.9216:

You know the sad part about this whole post is that, if I break down the mechanics more I would only educate more thieves. So I’ll just go back to what I posted.

It is NOT FUN to fight someone whom you can’t target 1/2 of the time. please do something about it.

You know what is sadder, you act all big but don’t listen to advice on how to counter.
The kind of thief people moan about:

Thief = Squishy
Thief = High damage
Thief = Low amount of stealth’s
Thief = Low initiative regeneration

Counter with

Toughness
Vitality
Dodge roll
Then face roll when they’re out of initiative

I could just as easily, as you have about stealth, say most classes in the game aren’t fun to fight:

Warrior: Omg it’s totally no fun to fight someone who is about to die but goes huehuehue invulnerability. Worse yet, when you down them they get up again. What BS is that. Not fun.

Mesmer: Geez guys, the Mesmer not only has stealth so I can’t see them sometimes but also Mesmer’s get loads of clones so I don’t know what to target. I might as well not even try, no fun.

Etc….

Thief is fine
Rendering is not fine

Oddly enough I rarely have trouble verses Thieves… must be something to do with having played that class. See the most stupid things posted about Thieves sometimes such as shortbow 5 being spammable being one of my favourite examples.

I don’t think you want to go into generals, like the twin theif timers that are half as long as the dogs ect… We are trying to address the pee a boo build.