Guild Wars 2

There is a ritual that I undergo almost daily now. My little innocent Asura Necromancer enters WvW with the intent of lending a hand to the good people of my server. Upon entering a map I begin to make my way over to the blue dorito. Then it happens. A dark cloud suddenly builds overhead. Lightning flashes. A hideous fiend suddenly appears out of nowhere. His eyes are red, blood drips from his fangs and daggers. I want to run, but it’s too late for me. My little Asura is torn to shreds, struck down by an evil Thief yet again.

I’m bad at the game. I’ll always be bad at the game, but I can still have fun. I have slow reflexes. Even if I know I should be taking action, I just…can’t…do…it…fast…enough. This will always be the case. I used to always avoid WvW but lately I’ve been running around in it quite a bit (mostly on a Necromancer) and I’ve managed to figure out how to survive fairly well amongst the comfort of a large zerg. But when I find myself alone…there’s always a Thief ready to step out of the shadows and strike me down.

1. Is there a way for a bad player like me (on my Necro) to at least be really annoying for them to kill? I know I’m going to lose regardless, but if I can at least take some of their sanity with me, then small victories!

2. When I find myself in small fights such as 3 v 3 or something, I don’t know what to do against Thieves. If they take any kind of moderate damage, they immediately vanish only to reappear with full health and renewed bloodlust. I’ve seen whole swarms of players chase after a single Thief for long distances. They move fast, they are nearly perma-invisible, and they strike soooo quickly and then poof, gone.

This is coming from an experienced WvW thief (never played necro, so can’t comment from your perspective). You haven’t mentioned what type of gear / build you use, but I can say that condition necro builds generally fare a lot better against thieves.

The key to beating a thief is usually control, if you can stop them from dodging or stealthing for a couple of seconds its possible to lay a lot of damage into them. Most thieves will have shadowstep as their only stunbreak, which gives them 2 stunbreaks within 10 seconds. This means hitting them with two fears 10 seconds apart can be very nasty. The flesh golem elite is a great way to reduce their mobility. Sitting in a well can be a good defensive strategy, since most thieves will try to get in melee range to deal damage.

Necromancers will always have a hard time on their own in WvW against thieves because 99% of thieves will be able to outrun necros / chase necros. In regards to this… never run from a thief as a necro, it just makes you easier to kill. Offense is the best defense; try to fear them during their burst and then counter burst.

If you are running a Condi necro everything Gallant says is good, but I have something more to add that can save your life. As soon as you can after you get hit by a thief dodge and then use your staff to put down marks right under you, it may not seem like much but most thieves will be hurting really had with a full stack of marks going off on them. 80% of the time it won’t help, but that other 20% it will save your life.

Boysenberry.1869:

There is a ritual that I undergo almost daily now. My little innocent Asura Necromancer enters WvW with the intent of lending a hand to the good people of my server. Upon entering a map I begin to make my way over to the blue dorito. Then it happens. A dark cloud suddenly builds overhead. Lightning flashes. A hideous fiend suddenly appears out of nowhere. His eyes are red, blood drips from his fangs and daggers. I want to run, but it’s too late for me. My little Asura is torn to shreds, struck down by an evil Thief yet again.

I’m bad at the game. I’ll always be bad at the game, but I can still have fun. I have slow reflexes. Even if I know I should be taking action, I just…can’t…do…it…fast…enough. This will always be the case. I used to always avoid WvW but lately I’ve been running around in it quite a bit (mostly on a Necromancer) and I’ve managed to figure out how to survive fairly well amongst the comfort of a large zerg. But when I find myself alone…there’s always a Thief ready to step out of the shadows and strike me down.

1. Is there a way for a bad player like me (on my Necro) to at least be really annoying for them to kill? I know I’m going to lose regardless, but if I can at least take some of their sanity with me, then small victories!

2. When I find myself in small fights such as 3 v 3 or something, I don’t know what to do against Thieves. If they take any kind of moderate damage, they immediately vanish only to reappear with full health and renewed bloodlust. I’ve seen whole swarms of players chase after a single Thief for long distances. They move fast, they are nearly perma-invisible, and they strike soooo quickly and then poof, gone.

All of us need tips to use against those who can kill us without us ever seeing them, not, even, once.

If you are alone, always use the elite Summon Flesh Golem. Do it the moment you set foot out of spawn point. Besides that, always charge your Death Shroud before venturing further into the map, kill the ambient creatures or moas, wolves, anything that is near the spawn.

I dunno what gear/traits/weapons you are using but for a safer fight I’d recommend specter/dagger as main weapon and staff as secondary.

Hit the thief with bleed, cripple, weakness and blindness, from scepter/dagger skills, try to stack them the max you can. Weakness and blindness are the type of condition that can save your life if a thief have any of them on and try to backstab you hastily (assuming it is a dagger/dagger thief). Usually by the time you unleash the attack sequence, the bleed will eat away his health to the point he will desperately stealth to cleanse or get out of combat. That’s when you swap for staff and use the marks. If he use Shadow Refuge, drop a Reaper’s Mark (#5) and Chilblains (#3) right in the middle of it as fast as you can and drop the Mark of blood (#2) on your feet. He won’t heal properly and when he come to attack, will be hit with bleeding and you will regen If he hits you with conditions, can also drop the Putrid Mark (#4) to give them back to the thief as a gift.
Honestly at this point the thief will be pretty much half dead. You can enter death shroud using the Tainted Shackles (#5), Life Transfer (#4), (Doom) #3, (Life Blast) #1 and Dark Path (#2) if they try to run away, sequence.
If you miss a few attacks, it is fine, you can terrorize that thief. You can use as utilities Spectral Grasp and Spectral wall. lol it is hella funny. Land the Spectral wall down near the thief and then use the Spectral Grasp to pull them. If you do it right, he will be feared at least twice. While he is in fear, use all your marks right on the thief feet and he will be dead, no doubt.

For a third utility you can use signet of spite, just be careful to not miss when you activate it, or spectral armor for a stun breaker and faster DS recharge. I, though, personally like the well of darkness against dagger/dagger and dagger/pistol thieves so we can start our own blindness spam war.

Oh, by the way, use Consume Conditions as the healing skill.

I find that is a good way to start fighting thieves until you are comfortable enough to try different things and don’t rely so much on distance/safe condition.

Roaming condi necro eats thieves (and other classes) for breakfast.
Maybee it helps you

Azyume pretty much nailed it. One thing I would like to add is I prefer plague form for the elite. Add the trait that chills when you blind and you can completely lock another person down.

Thats a battlefield out there. On a battlefield you need to be good, but thats not enough. You need the best equickments and need friends or you are just dead meat

What a thief wants you to do:

1.) Run away desperately without firing a single shot.

You cannot do this. Necro is the worst at making getaways, and Thief is the best at pursuing. This is a bad, bad combo. You need to make it sure that getting near you will result in him getting hurt, and this includes use of DS4, marks, the warhorn’s locust swarm for power builds or the scepter’s cripple. In any case you will need to fight him repeatedly until you can reach a safe point.

Condi necros have a better chance to outright defeat or chase away a thief due to being naturally tankier and also the ability to transfer condis back to them. Scepter also provides too much condition pressure to be trivially cleansed off. Death Shroud Fear and Torment are powerful skills that you really want to conserve.

2.) Not understand their skills.

I didn’t really get it until I rolled a thief myself, but there’s certain notes such as the thief leaving shadow refuge prematurely instantly reveals them! Thus, bomb the crap out of their shadow refuge. At the same time if they lay a black circle on you, do NOT stand in it. The black powder will render your attacks ineffective due to blinds.

The best thing I’ve done was roll a thief and see what kind of points of vulnerability there is. It was good to seek out tough fights, especially outnumbered ones to see how a thief would take advantage of the situation to take someone out and more importantly situations where they really can’t.

3.) Be goaded into foolishly charging into them, either out of impatience or overconfidence.

I love it when people try to yolo into my thief. I’ll position myself for the burst and then slip away while you’re out of gas and kill you right there.

A good way to get people to do this is to harass them with shortbow and slowly peel away at them, slipping away when they try to retaliate. DO NOT be goaded into this game. They can’t kill you like this. Fortunately, necros have plenty of ranged options of their own to not do anything stupid.

The other thing is that thieves have no end to “oh crap” buttons. This includes shadowstep, blinds, and of course stealth. If you seriously think you can take them in one burst while putting yourself at risk, you better hope they’re bad. On the other hand, pressuring them enough so they’re forced to waste them is another story.

4.) Think invisible= invincible.
You can still hit them. If they’re low on health and you crippled/immobilized/feared them, and they stealthed, don’t just stop attacking! You might just be able to finish them off.

5.) Treat it as all or nothing game.

A knee jerk reaction when being jumped is to fire all your cooldowns off. Again, you’ll be left defenseless when the thief disengages and engages back. A smart thief will treat it as a game of attrition. Personally, I much prefer thieves that just have one trick, as those are so much easier to fight. Don’t fire off 4 marks when 1-2 does its job.

Easier said then done no doubt, but hope that helps.

ArchonWing.9480:

The other thing is that thieves have no end to “oh crap” buttons. This includes shadowstep, blinds, and of course stealth. If you seriously think you can take them in one burst while putting yourself at risk, you better hope they’re bad. On the other hand, pressuring them enough so they’re forced to waste them is another story.

A terrormancer can kill a thief in the time of one fear. A thief will always lose a war of attrition against a condi necromancer. A good tip to handly thieves well is go into death shroud asap when the thief appears. He cant stealth for 3 seconds, gets feard and his hits are basicaly meaningless cause they only remove life force.

Condi necros and engis are a thiefs worst nightmare if they know what they are doing. I posted a video above, watch it a bit so you can understand how that guy handles his enemies.

Just some general WvW tips.

• Bind your “Look Behind” key. Whenever you’re running around in the world, periodically look behind you to stay on your toes. If you’re not in a safe area, you most likely don’t have the leisure to let your guard down.

• Be aware of your surroundings. Try to scout around corners and into camps if you’re going into them solo. If you’re soloing a camp, keep checking for enemies while fighting.

I main a thief and all I play is WvW. At least half of my battles are over before they’ve even started because the other player has bad battlefield awareness.

Mayama.1854:

ArchonWing.9480:

The other thing is that thieves have no end to “oh crap” buttons. This includes shadowstep, blinds, and of course stealth. If you seriously think you can take them in one burst while putting yourself at risk, you better hope they’re bad. On the other hand, pressuring them enough so they’re forced to waste them is another story.

A terrormancer can kill a thief in the time of one fear. A thief will always lose a war of attrition against a condi necromancer. A good tip to handly thieves well is go into death shroud asap when the thief appears. He cant stealth for 3 seconds, gets feard and his hits are basicaly meaningless cause they only remove life force.

Condi necros and engis are a thiefs worst nightmare if they know what they are doing. I posted a video above, watch it a bit so you can understand how that guy handles his enemies.

Like I’ve said before fear and condi builds are better. And yes, it’s true you can burst down certain more glassy thieves in that time, not all thief builds are the same; shadowstep for example can stunbreak twice within 10 seconds. For example, take the fight at 2:15. The thief is able to actually absorb many blows but the necro perfectly counters and punishes the thief for even trying to approach, while also not letting the thief escape that easily. Basically, outplayed and made the thief waste his resources with constant and careful pressure while not wasting cooldowns.

[Edit: Holy crap, every necro has owned me today.]

But yes, condi builds do better these days 1v1. Though I do believe Condi Engi is much more fearsome to handle for thieves.

Get a full tank set of armor and wear it until you meet up with your blue Dorito. Something like the new Toughness/Vitality/Healing set would be perfect, but there are other cheaper options too I’m sure. When you get to your Dorito, swap to your normal armor set.

There is a ritual I undergo every day, I enter wvw to have some fun. As soon as I enter I look at the map to find some fun, then I make my way to the place on the map where I think the fun is.

But…Then everyday the same dreadful thing happens… It is so horrible I consider quitting wvw alltogether… As I happily move towards the fun something goes squish under my heel I struggle to keep my footing and to not slip on some slippery, oily yet sticky substance and as I stop to scrape it of my boot I realise I have stepped on some diminuitive midget of a necromancer.

Everyday the same… It is horrible my boots are all messed up. A-net do something about it, remove asura from the game and just to be sure necromancers aswell.

While casting churning earth while a thief has time to backstab you twice for 9k and your churning earth will only hit for like 6-7k if your lucky.

I don’t blame the thief class however. Eles die in mist form from conditions, meteor shower make a huge circle everyone jump out now (so our best skill is almost useless), skill recharge is ridiculous, channelling our higher dps skills takes 4 times longer than other classes for less damage, and unless we go full bunker we die in 2 hits.

Xillllix.3485:

While casting churning earth while a thief has time to backstab you twice for 9k and your churning earth will only hit for like 6-7k if your lucky.

I don’t blame the thief class however. Eles die in mist form from conditions, meteor shower make a huge circle everyone jump out now (so our best skill is almost useless), skill recharge is ridiculous, channelling our higher dps skills takes 4 times longer than other classes for less damage, and unless we go full bunker we die in 2 hits.

You are doing it wrong.

Try to play a thief, it ain’t that easy against any semi-competent foe. D/D backstab builds have easy tells to dodge or blind C’n’D. Any shadow arts build (D/D and D/P mostly) can be wrecked by most necros via interrupts (Doom, warhorn, staff mark), weakness (traited DS, offhand dagger or SoS) and heavy damage pressure (both direct damage and conditions are very viable).

Condition thieves should be no problem: just let them put some on you, then give them back via e.g. dagger #4, staff #4 or Plague signet (most likely only the first two, since almost no useful necro build involves the signet).

Acro and trickery builds with sword mainhand are way harder to deal with due to evasiveness and good access to interrupts – your best bet is to play defensively, dodge or outrun their #3 skills, don’t waste Cooldowns during their evade frames, and estimate their initiative drain to then land your heavy hitters. Trickery D/P is quite hard to counter for most necros, I guess, but this is also why I prefer duo or group roaming over solo roaming, since you may rely on some support if things go south due to someone hard- or soft-countering your build.

maeggle.6021:

Xillllix.3485:

While casting churning earth while a thief has time to backstab you twice for 9k and your churning earth will only hit for like 6-7k if your lucky.

I don’t blame the thief class however. Eles die in mist form from conditions, meteor shower make a huge circle everyone jump out now (so our best skill is almost useless), skill recharge is ridiculous, channelling our higher dps skills takes 4 times longer than other classes for less damage, and unless we go full bunker we die in 2 hits.

You are doing it wrong.

Try to play a thief, it ain’t that easy against any semi-competent foe. D/D backstab builds have easy tells to dodge or blind C’n’D. Any shadow arts build (D/D and D/P mostly) can be wrecked by most necros via interrupts (Doom, warhorn, staff mark), weakness (traited DS, offhand dagger or SoS) and heavy damage pressure (both direct damage and conditions are very viable).

Condition thieves should be no problem: just let them put some on you, then give them back via e.g. dagger #4, staff #4 or Plague signet (most likely only the first two, since almost no useful necro build involves the signet).

Acro and trickery builds with sword mainhand are way harder to deal with due to evasiveness and good access to interrupts – your best bet is to play defensively, dodge or outrun their #3 skills, don’t waste Cooldowns during their evade frames, and estimate their initiative drain to then land your heavy hitters. Trickery D/P is quite hard to counter for most necros, I guess, but this is also why I prefer duo or group roaming over solo roaming, since you may rely on some support if things go south due to someone hard- or soft-countering your build.

I’m not doing it wrong, I just made a caricature of the poor balancing… I don’t blame the thief class either. I have a full ascended gear thief as well I use when I want to blow off some steam. The thief class can dodge out of your churning earth also btw, and has 4 freaking seconds to do so.

Skill recharge on the ele is the problem.

What i do is building so tanky and so much health regen that they simply give up when they see their 4k backstab crit being passive regened in 4 seconds. some condi thieves stick around, but i can outsustain them aswell. ah.. life of a warrior

@OP:

A lot of people are giving you tips for fighting thieves or other roamers. In your case, you want to run with a commander in a group. Your spec, if done correctly, isn’t going to be great at 1v1 against anyone. Your best bet is to either run to the commander in a group, or wait for the commander to come back to spawn.

Remember: Any class in a roaming spec will beat a zerg spec 1v1. The most the zerg spec can hope to do is run away.

If you want payback, as said above roll a condi-bunker necro. Thieves will effectively ignore you. Necro is one of those classes that does real well with patience and isn’t as much of a twitch based class. The condi-bunker is almost like auto pilot much of the fight.

Xillllix.3485:

I’m not doing it wrong, I just made a caricature of the poor balancing… I don’t blame the thief class either. I have a full ascended gear thief as well I use when I want to blow off some steam. The thief class can dodge out of your churning earth also btw, and has 4 freaking seconds to do so.

Skill recharge on the ele is the problem.

It’s not, you’re still doing it wrong.

Ele has stupid AoE and cleave spikes on almost every weapon and good sustained damage (at least on dagger mainhand) while a thief has some fancy 3 seconds (4 in PvP) single target spike skill which makes them vulnerable to point blank damage.
If you try to land a churn on an enemy without proper preparation, you’re most probably doing it wrong.
If you really think cooldowns on ele (except for RTL) are too long, you’re doing it wrong.
If you think, backstab thieves are some kind of apex predator, you’re totally wrong, especially if we talk about most ele builds not running staff.

The only really efficient thing against D/x eles are S/D acro thieves, but only due to stupid on-crit-proc-sigils which also benefit other classes, or well played trickery thieves (which most players don’t play because most of them want to go deep into shadow arts).

Anyways, this isn’t about elementalists vs thieves but necros vs thieves…

answer:
dire armor with perplexity runes, rabid everything else.
6/4/0/0/4 (both fear specs).

if you cant beat em cheese em.

style.6173:

@OP:

A lot of people are giving you tips for fighting thieves or other roamers. In your case, you want to run with a commander in a group. Your spec, if done correctly, isn’t going to be great at 1v1 against anyone. Your best bet is to either run to the commander in a group, or wait for the commander to come back to spawn.

Remember: Any class in a roaming spec will beat a zerg spec 1v1. The most the zerg spec can hope to do is run away.

apologies for the double post but this is very important information. you cant really roam and zerg with the same specs/gear. if a roamer catches a lone zerger they should die as thats what the roamer is geared to do.

RlyOsim.2497:

answer:
dire armor with perplexity runes, rabid everything else.
6/4/0/0/4 (both fear specs).

if you cant beat em cheese em.

A Thief can play the same game with full dire p/d and likely win :/

Atherakhia.4086:

RlyOsim.2497:

answer:
dire armor with perplexity runes, rabid everything else.
6/4/0/0/4 (both fear specs).

if you cant beat em cheese em.

A Thief can play the same game with full dire p/d and likely win :/

Yeah like a full condi spec has a good stand against a full condi necro.

style.6173:

@OP:

A lot of people are giving you tips for fighting thieves or other roamers. In your case, you want to run with a commander in a group. Your spec, if done correctly, isn’t going to be great at 1v1 against anyone. Your best bet is to either run to the commander in a group, or wait for the commander to come back to spawn.

Remember: Any class in a roaming spec will beat a zerg spec 1v1. The most the zerg spec can hope to do is run away.

In the past I would have agreed, but nowadays you can instantly retrait. It is possible to equip a roaming build when running to the commander and then reequip as zerg gear when you reach them. I do this on my guardian when the commander is very far away and I have no confidence on fighting people off with a staff.

It can be a bit of a hassle but I think it’s more fun then hoping when the dorito comes back home. Exotic gear that isn’t zerker is rather cheap and now the temple vendors sell quite a few useful armor sets (in particular, rabid) just for karma.

i’ve always found it ironic that the class that’s supposedly the shadow of death has the sustain of a pinata. anyway, as a necromancer you are always at an immediate disadvantage at the opening of the fight with a thief, especially if you are as glassy as they are(again, irritating that the class that practices death magic can’t at least turn into mist or something…oh wait.)

if you meet a half decent condi thief running the mega cheese build, even as a necro, just afk and make a cup of coffee.

Snorcha.7586:

if you meet a half decent condi thief running the mega cheese build, even as a necro, just afk and make a cup of coffee.

What are you smoking? Terrormancers have an easy time against P/D thieves.

Boysenberry.1869:

There is a ritual that I undergo almost daily now. My little innocent Asura Necromancer enters WvW with the intent of lending a hand to the good people of my server. Upon entering a map I begin to make my way over to the blue dorito. Then it happens. A dark cloud suddenly builds overhead. Lightning flashes. A hideous fiend suddenly appears out of nowhere. His eyes are red, blood drips from his fangs and daggers. I want to run, but it’s too late for me. My little Asura is torn to shreds, struck down by an evil Thief yet again.

I’m bad at the game. I’ll always be bad at the game, but I can still have fun. I have slow reflexes. Even if I know I should be taking action, I just…can’t…do…it…fast…enough. This will always be the case. I used to always avoid WvW but lately I’ve been running around in it quite a bit (mostly on a Necromancer) and I’ve managed to figure out how to survive fairly well amongst the comfort of a large zerg. But when I find myself alone…there’s always a Thief ready to step out of the shadows and strike me down.

1. Is there a way for a bad player like me (on my Necro) to at least be really annoying for them to kill? I know I’m going to lose regardless, but if I can at least take some of their sanity with me, then small victories!

2. When I find myself in small fights such as 3 v 3 or something, I don’t know what to do against Thieves. If they take any kind of moderate damage, they immediately vanish only to reappear with full health and renewed bloodlust. I’ve seen whole swarms of players chase after a single Thief for long distances. They move fast, they are nearly perma-invisible, and they strike soooo quickly and then poof, gone.

To be completely honest with you, necro and thieves access to stability is in the Elites. So Fear… Fear… Fear… Just annoy them with fears. Everytime they go to stealth, try to fear in some way. Fear them out of their Shadows Refuge (Big circle with floating house stealth patch), Black Powder from pistol 5? Spectral Grasp them and pull them away or fear. The only way they can stealth then is Cloak and Daggering any of the numerous mobs, npcs, or even pets to then backstab your poor Asura for 8 – 12k damage.