Guild Wars 2

Hey, i was wondering how it can be that 3 of 4 players roaming are thieves. It may be a crazy thesis but maybe they are broken as kitten. Can somebody explain to me why the class with hilarious mobillity, a ton of dodges, a non telegraphed burst and easy access to stealth needs to be basically immune to CC? Nice work on the CD of Bandit’s Defense there balanceteam. Good luck with your next addon and have a nice day.

Seriously, I don’t like thieves either but go play one.
Excellent ones are op,
All the rest get deleted,
There are so many bad thieves I could make a montage of me killing them with my hammer rev while solo roaming and even 1vX.

Edit:
Ya these are the typical thieves I run into,
https://youtu.be/gLYW9c30fdE
Not really seeing anything OP from them.

If they take damage,
You can kill it.

Balancing takes place at the ceiling not the floor.

Justine.6351:

Seriously, I don’t like thieves either but go play one.
Excellent ones are op,
All the rest get deleted,
There are so many bad thieves I could make a montage of me killing them with my hammer rev while solo roaming and even 1vX.

That’s but really true anymore. Daredevil provides opportunities for scrubs to punch above their weight, and you really only have to be competent to be op in many small scale fights.

That doesn’t mean thief isn’t without its problems, but it’s no longer the quick and the dead out there for them.

The OP is right about Bandit’s though, and general resistance to being locked down. A class with unparalleled mobility, great spoke damage, and control over initiating combat, it’s poor balance to also give that class great defense against being locked down.

1. it is thieves, not thiefs
2. Because thieves are roamers per design. Also, most zergs kick thieves instantly nowadays so all they can do now is roaming. Thank the community.
3. i assume with non-telegraphed burst you mean backstab? (because every other “burst” is telegraphed). Please check requirements on backstab and the damage it does when all stars don’t align before complaining about it. Main dmg for thief comes ironically from AA nowadays, just saying.
4. Access to stealth is not that “easy”, you use use ini for it (which results in less weapon spells you can execute at time) or/and use of CDs, most are pretty long on top of it.
5. thieves are not immune CCs, actually thieves have lowest access to stab of all classes in game. The normal builds run maybe 1-2 stunbreaks but about every other class does in wvw/pvp environment.
6. If thief did take bandit’s defense it means they either don’t have shs or blinding powder -> trade for condi cleanse and stealth. Weren’t you just complaining that they have easy access to stealth lol? Also god forbid the class that doesn’t have access to stab actually has access to stun break!

Please, go play one. Also record it so we can see how “OP” thieves are. I am sure skilled player like you can dominate entire community on such “OP” class

schloumou.3982:

Balancing takes place at the ceiling not the floor.

This thread has WvW in the title and is in the WvW subforum. Idk but if Condi reaper is any indication on what level anet balances the game…

Assuming a thief runs d/p DA/TR/DD you have easy stealth on demand. As Cynz above said, most of the damage comes from dagger autos these days, so the initiative spend on heartseeking 3-4 times through a black powder don’t hurt the thief that bad.

I agree with TS, thieves in wvw right now are the definition of a class that is overtuned. In fact with HOT and the Daredevil the class (again, assuming d/p UC stealth&dodgespam headshot sigil of draining hurrdurr thief) became real easy to play and one of the most forgiving builds in the game, you can literally get away with anything, If you want a challenge as a thief go d/d solo, hell even go zerker shatter mes.

Bad thieves are surprisingly able to live through too much, and good thieves are hellishly over tuned. Could use some toning down.

The biggest issue is there’s no punishing bad play as dodge, dodge, dodge (signet), dodge, dodge, dodge, (switch to SB) dodge, 555 can take them further away than even portal goes.

Or more realistically you can skip the signet and still end up ooc or at ranges most classes cannot punish you for making a mistake or burning cool downs in a silly fashion. What’s the cool down on dodging 3 times and SB5 away twice? I make it about 10s given a lot of thieves run endurance regen food and will have vigor from steal. A lot of classes can’t keep up with how low some thief cool downs are and bandits defence is an example of extremely poor balancing.

A thiefs biggest enemy is themselves.

Cynz.9437:

1. it is thieves, not thiefs
2. Because thieves are roamers per design. Also, most zergs kick thieves instantly nowadays so all they can do now is roaming. Thank the community.
3. i assume with non-telegraphed burst you mean backstab? (because every other “burst” is telegraphed). Please check requirements on backstab and the damage it does when all stars don’t align before complaining about it. Main dmg for thief comes ironically from AA nowadays, just saying.
4. Access to stealth is not that “easy”, you use use ini for it (which results in less weapon spells you can execute at time) or/and use of CDs, most are pretty long on top of it.
5. thieves are not immune CCs, actually thieves have lowest access to stab of all classes in game. The normal builds run maybe 1-2 stunbreaks but about every other class does in wvw/pvp environment.
6. If thief did take bandit’s defense it means they either don’t have shs or blinding powder -> trade for condi cleanse and stealth. Weren’t you just complaining that they have easy access to stealth lol? Also god forbid the class that doesn’t have access to stab actually has access to stun break!

Please, go play one. Also record it so we can see how “OP” thieves are. I am sure skilled player like you can dominate entire community on such “OP” class

2) Its called spamm stuff 5th skill , that offers evades even in zergs and can be used as initiators . You should try it .
3) You are doing something wrong , because even thifs in 2012 hotjoins could pull off the even harder version os CnD+Steal , rather than the easier version od d/p to access stealth and use the Backstab
4) its called d/p , where they dont have high cd on stealth demand ,and your resourse mechanics REGEN AS YOU ARE DOING OTHER THINGS … its not like you have 16 resourses and you cant do anything else afterwards
5) why the 5th and 6th contridict themself ? they have too few stun break or too many ?
You have the traited Daze steal + Shadowstep + Bandit’s Defense which is the nromal to all clases
6) If you dont know , …. you have the Shadowstem + Escapist’s Absolution for the condtion removal , while using the d/p for the steal . Dont hurp kitten in the keyboarbs if you dont know aht you are saying …

In the one hand you whine aboiut HoT powercreep and in the other hand defend it ))
And when ppl accuse you for that , you turn around and say : ’’where i said that ???""

lets has some talk for the next weeks my dear tief freind , that your actions/speach creates the powercreep :P

They can also choose to use Channeled Vigor instead of Withdraw for extra endurance regen, add to that Brawler’s Tenacity (trait) for even more on Bandit’s defence and their heal!

Cynz.9437:

1. it is thieves, not thiefs

Thanks. Im not a native speaker. Fixed.

Why not reward zerging much more , so most whinning stops ?:)

Thf class is ok on its own super glass but very open windows of death its dardevil that is the problem due to its super glass with no open windows of death. Being able to dodges and do high burst dmg is a real balancing problem. You should never lets any class do high dmg and be invaluably unless its a high (6 mins or longer) cd effect.

Best way to deal with thieves is to let them use all their burst while blocking. As soon as they are done you can normally one shot them or they run away with their tails tucked between their legs.

Justine.6351:

Seriously, I don’t like thieves either but go play one.
Excellent ones are op,
All the rest get deleted,
There are so many bad thieves I could make a montage of me killing them with my hammer rev while solo roaming and even 1vX.

I’m a bad Daredevil, yet I have a better K/D ratio in one on ones than I should.(not a bad player, but as far as thief goes….yeah) I’ve found P/P thief is low skill deadly.

P/P one unload can turn the tide, and spamming unloads can win a fight before it really begins.

I’m not really specced to run away, and yet I can break off a fight far easier with my Daredevil than I can with other classes.

Once you spend a bit of time on thief to learn the tricks they really aren’t that hard to play(P/P), and you realize you are going to kill certain classes far easier than others. Then you start to pick out fights you are going to win(most), or be able to run away from(almost all), and enjoy being a thief.

Choppy.4183:

Justine.6351:

Seriously, I don’t like thieves either but go play one.
Excellent ones are op,
All the rest get deleted,
There are so many bad thieves I could make a montage of me killing them with my hammer rev while solo roaming and even 1vX.

That’s but really true anymore. Daredevil provides opportunities for scrubs to punch above their weight, and you really only have to be competent to be op in many small scale fights.

That doesn’t mean thief isn’t without its problems, but it’s no longer the quick and the dead out there for them.

The OP is right about Bandit’s though, and general resistance to being locked down. A class with unparalleled mobility, great spoke damage, and control over initiating combat, it’s poor balance to also give that class great defense against being locked down.

I kind of agree with both of these comments.

Right now though, my major gripe with them is Acrobatics. Condition Thieves are irritating, but fine. Common power Thief is strong, but fine. Acro Thief is broken. Even bad ones are nearly impossible to lock down with that many evades and even a built in “evade all attacks” trait.

It’s true that it’s a punishing class to play and I absolutely respect good ones. Most players worth their salt know that a lot of the complaints about the class stem from inexperience but in this case, I hope people can agree that Acro is something that needs adjusting.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Right now though, my major gripe with them is Acrobatics. Condition Thieves are irritating, but fine. Common power Thief is strong, but fine. Acro Thief is broken. Even bad ones are nearly impossible to lock down with that many evades and even a built in “evade all attacks” trait.

It’s true that it’s a punishing class to play and I absolutely respect good ones. Most players worth their salt know that a lot of the complaints about the class stem from inexperience but in this case, I hope people can agree that Acro is something that needs adjusting.

Acro/staff is the one build that really lets thieves participate in a zerg situation, though…bound into enemy zerg, vault, vault, vault, bound out. It works well in small to large group fights, but not so much 1v1 where the telegraphing of vault makes it harder to land if they are paying attention. That’s more annoying than the roaming perma-invis/condi gankers?

Justine.6351:

Seriously, I don’t like thieves either but go play one.
Excellent ones are op,
All the rest get deleted,
There are so many bad thieves I could make a montage of me killing them with my hammer rev while solo roaming and even 1vX.

I main a DD in WvW, and I could make a montage of me killing other thieves…even ones that surprise burst me first lol

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

…..that many evades and even a built in “evade all attacks” trait.

That many evades is one more evade, then you have to spend skills or utility again to refill, if a thief bothers to manage their resources and you don’t then that’s on you. That evade all is on a 40 s cooldown, if you want to blow your entire load on an opener that’s on you as well.

schloumou.3982:

Balancing takes place at the ceiling not the floor.

In today’s AoE spam, skill spam, condi bunker meta, autopilot, passive play? I’ll have what you’re having kind sir or madam.

Because you people always whine about thieves: Try one herald, the other GS necro – they’re unkillable.
This game never was balanced – the effects of the ferocity patch was a complete coincidence and the only time the game was halfway balanced was after that to June 2015. Minus the condis which weren’t as bad as they’re now though. Tanky armor and Zerker (e.g.) made more sense before the ferocity patch, though.
So, I guess it’s safe to say that this game was never intended to be balanced and never will be balanced. Which is a shame actually because the base mechanics of it are really great – would just be fun to actually be awarded for skill. But alas.
Yeah, D/P is OP
Yeah, DrD is OP
Yeah, all other elites in this game are OP.

The dramatic increase of thieves in WvW is a clear sign that the class is a very strong roamer at this point. I dont think anyone can argue that really. Does it need to be tuned down a bit? Perhaps, mostly in their ability to disengage so freely.

My biggest gripe about thieves happens near the water though, I dont think a thief should be able to tank 5+ players head on in the water through evades indefinitely.

This video was taken 2-3 minutes after the thief had gone into the water, with around 6 players casting freely on it while it proceeded to evade and heal basically indefinitely (and still managed to do damage as well):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqFLlsflgcE&

Im not sure if the balance patch was before or after this was taken, but I’ve run into the same kind of thief as recently as last week. I know underwater combat is not balanced and is not focused on, but this needs to be addressed as its just… ridiculous.

Thief mobility blows away every single class no matter the build of the opposing class by far. You can not match them. High mobility, quick hits, and hard smacks that come out of nowhere are part of the class. That being said the amount of mobility they have depending on the build has far exceeded the class theme. Disengage is also a problem, but not any more than a few other classes I can think of like mesmer. Condi thief (usually in TB) is another problem but falls into the bigger category of how the condi tank meta is sucking the fun out of PvP gameplay in GW2.

Sylvyn.4750:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Right now though, my major gripe with them is Acrobatics. Condition Thieves are irritating, but fine. Common power Thief is strong, but fine. Acro Thief is broken. Even bad ones are nearly impossible to lock down with that many evades and even a built in “evade all attacks” trait.

It’s true that it’s a punishing class to play and I absolutely respect good ones. Most players worth their salt know that a lot of the complaints about the class stem from inexperience but in this case, I hope people can agree that Acro is something that needs adjusting.

Acro/staff is the one build that really lets thieves participate in a zerg situation, though…bound into enemy zerg, vault, vault, vault, bound out. It works well in small to large group fights, but not so much 1v1 where the telegraphing of vault makes it harder to land if they are paying attention. That’s more annoying than the roaming perma-invis/condi gankers?

I find it surprising how many people think vault makes you immortal somehow. Vault is a liability, and for being our only 5-target zerg-style AoE, its evade is only for the first half of the animation. If there are fields, aoe, stuns, blinds, pretty much anything where your vault is going to land, chances are you are going to get loaded up with condis, stuns, or just die.

Justine.6351:

schloumou.3982:

Balancing takes place at the ceiling not the floor.

This thread has WvW in the title and is in the WvW subforum. Idk but if Condi reaper is any indication on what level anet balances the game…

Or for that matter, your class dropping 6k ranged autoattacks

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Broken english

LetoII.3782:

Justine.6351:

schloumou.3982:

Balancing takes place at the ceiling not the floor.

This thread has WvW in the title and is in the WvW subforum. Idk but if Condi reaper is any indication on what level anet balances the game…

Or for that matter, your class dropping 6k ranged autoattacks

My class doesn’t drop 6k ranged autoattacks,
I drop 5k autoattacks occasionally.

If you think playing in condi/bunker meta with glass hammer, using a single 2condi cleanse on a 1sec cast 15sec recharge, is easy feel free to show us the OPness. It’s kind of annoying not having anyone else running it and posting vids to see what others are doing. Yet I could point out 4 Condi reapers on these forums that do regularly make vids. Kind of says something.

Oh I made a hammer rev vid regarding typical thief fights. People think thief teleporting away is rediculous, try running away from shiro lol. Really if you hate thieves make a hammer rev. Will edit/link it to my first post here once it’s uploaded

Justine.6351:

LetoII.3782:

Justine.6351:

schloumou.3982:

Balancing takes place at the ceiling not the floor.

This thread has WvW in the title and is in the WvW subforum. Idk but if Condi reaper is any indication on what level anet balances the game…

Or for that matter, your class dropping 6k ranged autoattacks

My class doesn’t drop 6k ranged autoattacks,
I drop 5k autoattacks occasionally.

If you think playing in condi/bunker meta with glass hammer, using a single 2condi cleanse on a 1sec cast 15sec recharge, is easy feel free to show us the OPness. It’s kind of annoying not having anyone else running it and posting vids to see what others are doing. Yet I could point out 4 Condi reapers on these forums that do regularly make vids. Kind of says something.

Oh I made a hammer rev vid regarding typical thief fights. People think thief teleporting away is rediculous, try running away from shiro lol. Really if you hate thieves make a hammer rev. Will edit/link it to my first post here once it’s uploaded

Well I mean rev hammer is all kinds of broken in sheer damage output as well, the difference is they’re very easy to focus down.

The only thing stopping any QQ about Shiro revs tbh is how insanely weak they are against all forms of condi. Even conditions like weakness, chill/cripple/immob outside of shiro and blind screw over revs far more than most classes atm. I mean they have lots of blocks and evades on very short cool downs, the thing is any condi build or even hybrid/celestial build will absolutely destroy them and their damage doesn’t scale that well when there’s more than 2 people in a fight.

But anyway feef OP plz narf.

You see a lot of thieves roaming because that’s their “thing”, pretty much the one thing in the game they’re actually good at.

Don’t get me wrong, they’re god-awful to try and fight, but they’ve always been like that. Either they kill you, or they fail to kill you and hightail it out of there.

Playing pretty much anything in 900 range of a necro is somewhat grueling atm.

Turk.5460:

Sylvyn.4750:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Right now though, my major gripe with them is Acrobatics. Condition Thieves are irritating, but fine. Common power Thief is strong, but fine. Acro Thief is broken. Even bad ones are nearly impossible to lock down with that many evades and even a built in “evade all attacks” trait.

It’s true that it’s a punishing class to play and I absolutely respect good ones. Most players worth their salt know that a lot of the complaints about the class stem from inexperience but in this case, I hope people can agree that Acro is something that needs adjusting.

Acro/staff is the one build that really lets thieves participate in a zerg situation, though…bound into enemy zerg, vault, vault, vault, bound out. It works well in small to large group fights, but not so much 1v1 where the telegraphing of vault makes it harder to land if they are paying attention. That’s more annoying than the roaming perma-invis/condi gankers?

I find it surprising how many people think vault makes you immortal somehow. Vault is a liability, and for being our only 5-target zerg-style AoE, its evade is only for the first half of the animation. If there are fields, aoe, stuns, blinds, pretty much anything where your vault is going to land, chances are you are going to get loaded up with condis, stuns, or just die.

Vault is very much like Deathblossom. Once the animation starts it relatively easy for an enemy to ensure a particular attack lands.

As example it easier for my Warior to land headbutt stun on a thief that is locked in a vault or a DB then it is to get one to land on a thief that is just moving around.

Turk.5460:

Sylvyn.4750:

Acro/staff is the one build that really lets thieves participate in a zerg situation, though…bound into enemy zerg, vault, vault, vault, bound out. It works well in small to large group fights, but not so much 1v1 where the telegraphing of vault makes it harder to land if they are paying attention. That’s more annoying than the roaming perma-invis/condi gankers?

I find it surprising how many people think vault makes you immortal somehow. Vault is a liability, and for being our only 5-target zerg-style AoE, its evade is only for the first half of the animation. If there are fields, aoe, stuns, blinds, pretty much anything where your vault is going to land, chances are you are going to get loaded up with condis, stuns, or just die.

Never said it makes you immortal…the evades help, but you have to watch where you are targeting your vault, too, so yes, it is still high-risk/high-reward.

Here we are again with several players griping how their zerg build cannot hang in the one area a thief excels. Stories of when they got hurt, they got blownup. If a player cannot handle a single thief in the open, stay in the herd or roll a DH.

Coming in here complaining about a class that is only good in about 10% of the gameplay… gah. If you are going to gripe, how about going after the one class that dominates everything. The Guardian/DH meta has been superior since launch of the game. They are by far the most prolific class in the game and some DH builds are straight up OP.

Straegen.2938:

Here we are again with several players griping how their zerg build cannot hang in the one area a thief excels. Stories of when they got hurt, they got blownup. If a player cannot handle a single thief in the open, stay in the herd or roll a DH.

Coming in here complaining about a class that is only good in about 10% of the gameplay… gah. If you are going to gripe, how about going after the one class that dominates everything. The Guardian/DH meta has been superior since launch of the game. They are by far the most prolific class in the game and some DH builds are straight up OP.

I don’t think that’s quite a fair characterization of the discussion here. I don’t think anyone has said that thieves are god mode everywhere or anything, nor does pointing out a mode of play where they have unparalleled advantage compared to other classes in any way undermine the case for them getting buffs in other areas of the game or that other classes are too strong in those areas.

Also, and you didn’t say this but I just want to head it off in case someone else does, being overtuned in one aspect of the game is not a good way to balance for weakness elsewhere. I would personally rather have thieves get some shaves to reduce their small scale dominance while also getting buffs so they can better participate in other areas of the game, than leave them in the garbage can in some areas and reigning supreme elsewhere.

Ya these are the typical thieves I run into,
https://youtu.be/gLYW9c30fdE
Not really seeing anything OP from them.

If they take damage,
You can kill it.

Justine.6351:

Ya these are the typical thieves I run into,
https://youtu.be/gLYW9c30fdE
Not really seeing anything OP from them.

If they take damage,
You can kill it.

Did Essence Sap get patched or something? I don’t think I saw any thieves in that video using it.

Choppy.4183:

Also, and you didn’t say this but I just want to head it off in case someone else does, being overtuned in one aspect of the game is not a good way to balance for weakness elsewhere. I would personally rather have thieves get some shaves to reduce their small scale dominance while also getting buffs so they can better participate in other areas of the game, than leave them in the garbage can in some areas and reigning supreme elsewhere.

That’s a novel thought for sure, but it’s probably never going to happen. Since the game came out, thieves have never had any kind of group support aside from group-stealth, and Mesmer does that better. Well, Boonstrip as well, but with the asinine amount of boon generation out there, it hardly makes a dent.

Thief has always been a selfish class that is suited for small-scale encounters, but is more of a liability in large ones. I doubt that is going to change once the Rifle gets introduced.

Justine.6351:

Ya these are the typical thieves I run into,
https://youtu.be/gLYW9c30fdE
Not really seeing anything OP from them.

If they take damage,
You can kill it.

I mean, sure, when you’re getting 9k CoR on them, 4k ranged autos, and have aoe’s and evade skills.

A smart power thief would recognize your output and stay away from you entirely unless they see an opportunity, and there’s really nothing you could do about it. Now, were you fighting any condi thieves in that video?

TwiceDead.1963:

Thief has always been a selfish class that is suited for small-scale encounters, but is more of a liability in large ones. I doubt that is going to change once the Rifle gets introduced.

True, but the class hasn’t always been as forgiving as it is now. Thieves have always had the best mobility, but it didn’t outclass all others to the extent that it does now. Same with defenses, especially against cc, which is the key thing.

All I was saying is that I see room to restore balance to the Force here. To keep thieves as a top class in small scale but still shaving into some of these aspects that give even mediocre players plenty of covers for bad play, and otherwise increasing the risk factor to better reflect the reward.

In addition, I’d like to see it get some more love to it’s more fun to play outside of small scale. It’s received some compared to the old days, but there’s room for more. That said, I’ve banged this drum before. My only reason for bringing it up in this conversation (which isn’t about that) is because people sometimes interpret calls for nerfs to thieves’ small scale combat game as a general claim that thieves are easy god mode at all times. I don’t think that that’s true, and I’d be surprised if anyone else with any time spent playing the game would either.

Choppy.4183:

Justine.6351:

Ya these are the typical thieves I run into,
https://youtu.be/gLYW9c30fdE
Not really seeing anything OP from them.

If they take damage,
You can kill it.

I mean, sure, when you’re getting 9k CoR on them, 4k ranged autos, and have aoe’s and evade skills.

A smart power thief would recognize your output and stay away from you entirely unless they see an opportunity, and there’s really nothing you could do about it. Now, were you fighting any condi thieves in that video?

A couple.

A great thief would have killed me 1v1. I mean it’s a hammer rev lol. It’s like bearbow without the bear. But all the smart/great ones fight with others to capitalize on their ability to +1/gank. And in those cases again hammer rev, just wait for them to commit to a gank and drop CoR on them.

Thieves are only OP if you are running a slow facetanking build. And in those cases all you have to do is /sit until they give up and go home. People who chase them from XvX with stuff like reapers and staff ele get wrecked because they don’t recognize the scenario, baited.

Clownmug.8357:

Did Essence Sap get patched or something? I don’t think I saw any thieves in that video using it.

Idk, probably lots of failed steals. I watch sindrener a little “you can see it in their eyes”.

Justine.6351:

Choppy.4183:

Justine.6351:

Ya these are the typical thieves I run into,
https://youtu.be/gLYW9c30fdE
Not really seeing anything OP from them.

If they take damage,
You can kill it.

I mean, sure, when you’re getting 9k CoR on them, 4k ranged autos, and have aoe’s and evade skills.

A smart power thief would recognize your output and stay away from you entirely unless they see an opportunity, and there’s really nothing you could do about it. Now, were you fighting any condi thieves in that video?

A couple.

A great thief would have killed me 1v1. I mean it’s a hammer rev lol. It’s like bearbow without the bear. But all the smart/great ones fight with others to capitalize on their ability to +1/gank. And in those cases again hammer rev, just wait for them to commit to a gank and drop CoR on them.

Thieves are only OP if you are running a slow facetanking build. And in those cases all you have to do is /sit until they give up and go home. People who chase them from XvX with stuff like reapers and staff ele get wrecked because they don’t recognize the scenario, baited.

I dunno, I play power mes, if I don’t one shot the thief then it’s generally a losing battle for me. I mean I 100-0 plenty of thieves and will try to punish bad plays wherever I can whenever I can against a thief but much of that has gone now. It’s even worse when you get 2 of them focus you in a small team fight without someone on TS ready to cover you or support you.

Poor ones will dodge spam and teleport away till cool downs are back up, it’s not that big an issue except they can reset the fight when they burn your longer cool downs like distortion. Don’t even get me started on core mesmer, without chaos it’s an uphill fight. I come across plenty of bad thieves but when you get someone who has either got a ton of macros doing a lot of the combos for them or just spent more than a day learning the class it becomes much harder to deal with.

I agree with Choppy though, it is just silly atm for roaming and needs bringing down considerably while it’s group play needs bringing up by the same amount.

apharma.3741:

Justine.6351:

Choppy.4183:

Justine.6351:

Ya these are the typical thieves I run into,
https://youtu.be/gLYW9c30fdE
Not really seeing anything OP from them.

If they take damage,
You can kill it.

I mean, sure, when you’re getting 9k CoR on them, 4k ranged autos, and have aoe’s and evade skills.

A smart power thief would recognize your output and stay away from you entirely unless they see an opportunity, and there’s really nothing you could do about it. Now, were you fighting any condi thieves in that video?

A couple.

A great thief would have killed me 1v1. I mean it’s a hammer rev lol. It’s like bearbow without the bear. But all the smart/great ones fight with others to capitalize on their ability to +1/gank. And in those cases again hammer rev, just wait for them to commit to a gank and drop CoR on them.

Thieves are only OP if you are running a slow facetanking build. And in those cases all you have to do is /sit until they give up and go home. People who chase them from XvX with stuff like reapers and staff ele get wrecked because they don’t recognize the scenario, baited.

I dunno, I play power mes, if I don’t one shot the thief then it’s generally a losing battle for me. I mean I 100-0 plenty of thieves and will try to punish bad plays wherever I can whenever I can against a thief but much of that has gone now. It’s even worse when you get 2 of them focus you in a small team fight without someone on TS ready to cover you or support you.

Poor ones will dodge spam and teleport away till cool downs are back up, it’s not that big an issue except they can reset the fight when they burn your longer cool downs like distortion. Don’t even get me started on core mesmer, without chaos it’s an uphill fight. I come across plenty of bad thieves but when you get someone who has either got a ton of macros doing a lot of the combos for them or just spent more than a day learning the class it becomes much harder to deal with.

I agree with Choppy though, it is just silly atm for roaming and needs bringing down considerably while it’s group play needs bringing up by the same amount.

I think it’s thief that counters power mes idk. Some nights when raiding with strm and I’m on reaper it triggers me when we don’t have an answer to thief gankers so hard that I get on rev and go on a potato chip rampage.

Justine.6351:

apharma.3741:

Justine.6351:

Choppy.4183:

Justine.6351:

Ya these are the typical thieves I run into,
https://youtu.be/gLYW9c30fdE
Not really seeing anything OP from them.

If they take damage,
You can kill it.

I mean, sure, when you’re getting 9k CoR on them, 4k ranged autos, and have aoe’s and evade skills.

A smart power thief would recognize your output and stay away from you entirely unless they see an opportunity, and there’s really nothing you could do about it. Now, were you fighting any condi thieves in that video?

A couple.

A great thief would have killed me 1v1. I mean it’s a hammer rev lol. It’s like bearbow without the bear. But all the smart/great ones fight with others to capitalize on their ability to +1/gank. And in those cases again hammer rev, just wait for them to commit to a gank and drop CoR on them.

Thieves are only OP if you are running a slow facetanking build. And in those cases all you have to do is /sit until they give up and go home. People who chase them from XvX with stuff like reapers and staff ele get wrecked because they don’t recognize the scenario, baited.

I dunno, I play power mes, if I don’t one shot the thief then it’s generally a losing battle for me. I mean I 100-0 plenty of thieves and will try to punish bad plays wherever I can whenever I can against a thief but much of that has gone now. It’s even worse when you get 2 of them focus you in a small team fight without someone on TS ready to cover you or support you.

Poor ones will dodge spam and teleport away till cool downs are back up, it’s not that big an issue except they can reset the fight when they burn your longer cool downs like distortion. Don’t even get me started on core mesmer, without chaos it’s an uphill fight. I come across plenty of bad thieves but when you get someone who has either got a ton of macros doing a lot of the combos for them or just spent more than a day learning the class it becomes much harder to deal with.

I agree with Choppy though, it is just silly atm for roaming and needs bringing down considerably while it’s group play needs bringing up by the same amount.

I think it’s thief that counters power mes idk. Some nights when raiding with strm and I’m on reaper it triggers me when we don’t have an answer to thief gankers so hard that I get on rev and go on a potato chip rampage.

Yeah had that happen a few times last match up, 2 thieves constantly attacking the person at the back of our small group. They couldn’t stick around if we turned on them but locking them down was pointless due to bandits defence. Told people not to fight and just keep going, in the end 1 person thought he could win and I told him we won’t help, he died and we were so far away by the time they picked him apart they couldn’t find us.

Necro doesn’t have it easy either, core warrior used to have issues, still sort of does without resistance or stab but most run berserker which covers a lot of warriors weakness to thieves.

Justine.6351:

Seriously, I don’t like thieves either but go play one.
Excellent ones are op,
All the rest get deleted,
There are so many bad thieves I could make a montage of me killing them with my hammer rev while solo roaming and even 1vX.

Edit:
Ya these are the typical thieves I run into,
https://youtu.be/gLYW9c30fdE
Not really seeing anything OP from them.

If they take damage,
You can kill it.

OH THANK GOD! The video wasn’t of me getting owned.

There are serious thieves and then there are ones like me or the one in the video. Personally I run a power P/P / Staff for roaming for dailies or when the queues are too long for me to get into. It is perfect for a small group or flipping camps and such. I could switch things up and be better 1 v 1 but I hit the target and if the fight is longer than 30 seconds then I poof and run.

Other than that I pop on my mesmer or necro for serious runs. condi thieves can own but against more than one don’t have the ability to survive other than dodge and run and come back to keep trying. Most times they are down.

I think many complaints come from the 1 v 1 crowd. Just my opinion. My necro build survives well against bth and win some lose some. Have to play a thief to know how to counter a thief.

There nothing wrong with a given class excelling in a certain area such as roaming and nothing wrong with that ability to roam being tied to superior mobility. This “bring them back down to everyone elses level” meme is just code speak to normalizing all classes so they play the same. It leads to sterile type gameplay.

In WvW If I wanted less mobility and the ability to better group support a zerg I would bring in another class which I often do when the mood suits me. No one that plays the game is restricted from having that higher mobility. Just go roll up a thief. Added character slots are cheap.

The thief CAN support a zerg but not in the same way as other classes. They have to rely on their strengths to function in a zerg and their weaknesses preclude them from playing within the mass of the group. Just as the thief has to be very careful as to how they play aroung zergs and in group fights because that NOT where they strong, other classes should accept the fact that Roaming is where the thief excels.

usnedward.9023:

I could switch things up and be better 1 v 1 but I hit the target and if the fight is longer than 30 seconds then I poof and run.

30s? Thats very sluggish, you need to up your game. Most thieves will run away after they realize they cant kill something in 2 seconds because that might actually be something dangerous.

babazhook.6805:

There nothing wrong with a given class excelling in a certain area such as roaming and nothing wrong with that ability to roam being tied to superior mobility. This “bring them back down to everyone elses level” meme is just code speak to normalizing all classes so they play the same. It leads to sterile type gameplay.

This ^-^

They should either focus most ppl to join zergs (removing the dailies) or they shoudl increase the survibility of the other classes (regadles if its effecting pvp) , by giving most Warrior’s selfhealing traits (and scale even more , to counter the food+gear of the WvWvW stats)

Whats the problem with a single class that domainated roaming ?
Buff all the others for a change kitten

babazhook.6805:

There nothing wrong with a given class excelling in a certain area such as roaming and nothing wrong with that ability to roam being tied to superior mobility. This “bring them back down to everyone elses level” meme is just code speak to normalizing all classes so they play the same. It leads to sterile type gameplay.

Of course there’s nothing wrong with them excelling in a particular area, and nobody’s said otherwise.

schloumou.3982:

Can somebody explain to me why the class with hilarious mobillity, a ton of dodges, a non telegraphed burst and easy access to stealth needs to be basically immune to CC?

I’d very much like to hear McLain’s response to this criticism.

#BlameMcLain

forum bug? .