Guild Wars 2

A skilled thief can pretty much take out a four man group, while perma cloaking. If you imobilize a thief they can cloak run away. They knock you out, cloak and press Finish him. Counter? You cant decloak a thief, you cant stop them from cloaking + healing. If they feel the heat they cloak and run. Its just too easy, to play a thief. I dont know how they are en PvE but in WvW they are totally op. They jump into a 7 ppl gruop knock you out and if they are “lcky” they kill you and run away and over and over. Thers no other clsass that can challenge a mob of other players singlehanded and win. Ive been happy about game and balance so far but this is a Must do for the game. Sure its fun for the thief to play with low risk. Ive never seen a game where one class was so op seriously. I mean perma cloaking again and again, cmon put a timer and possebility of a counter to cloak on that please. Also if im using a flamethrower and the thief cloaks, and my fire is hitting where he stands he wont get hit. So its not just a cloaking skill its an invulnerability skill you can use again and again really fast. I can use such a skill about every 30 secs and it lasts 3 secs and I am visible meanwhile. This is so much a no brainer. I know a lot of thieves will probably come and try and stab this down. But the only reason for that is that they know this is true and they dont want anyone to stop their fun obviously. I hope this message reaches a gamedesigner, if not well, I could imagine a % of the playerbase leaving if they feel its a joke when they pvp other players.

Encore.7053:

Also if im using a flamethrower and the thief cloaks, and my fire is hitting where he stands he wont get hit. So its not just a cloaking skill its an invulnerability skill you can use again and again really fast.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth

Wiki

Characters in stealth cannot be targeted by enemies, but can still be hit and take damage, and taking damage does not break stealth.

Look – I agree with you – and I loath myself for pointing this out – but the Flamethrower will damage them while they are in stealth or least still culled – I see the damage all the time. When I think a thief is about – I will spray the area continually, and I see the white damage numbers all the time while doing this. In about 8/10 times, it causes them to just give up and run off for easier prey. But yeah, they need to be nerfed. Frankly – if they take damage – it needs to knock them out of stealth – like every other game with that class archetype. Period!

Expect a whole lot of Thieves to come in, many of which will claim to not be Thieves at all, telling you to “l2p,” because you suck and they are demigods, and that’s why you think the profession is OP, because you happened across a really good player, and it has absolutely nothing to do with easy-to-abuse class mechanics (ie. stealth).

Oh, and it’s all culling. Thieves being capable of near-constant stealth is fine.

if a four man group can’t deal with a single thief they should maybe quit the game xD

Encore.7053:

Also if im using a flamethrower and the thief cloaks, and my fire is hitting where he stands he wont get hit.

How can you be taken seriously when you clearly do not understand the mechanics? This statement makes it a learn to play issue, because you have no idea what you are talking about.

maybe engi+ranger+2low level. I’ll definetly jump in that group. 2shot the first green arrow, then kill the other one while he’s ressing his mate, stealth, rec, go for ranger while curing burning and finally the engineer.
It’s hard but doable … it depends on opponents’ skill.

That said, OP has no idea about how stealth works.

edit: any mesmer can do the same … a warrior can do it faster, a guardian can do it too…

With a group of 4 you should be able to quickly res up anyone they’ve downed before they can finish them off. It shouldn’t even be a worry or care. Solo Thieves are just harassment unless the opponents are very bad. In that case they could have killed you all with any class.

Aberrant.6749:

With a group of 4 you should be able to quickly res up anyone they’ve downed before they can finish them off. It shouldn’t even be a worry or care. Solo Thieves are just harassment unless the opponents are very bad. In that case they could have killed you all with any class.

What I bolded is the key.

Ah, the weekly “nerf” post. Funny thing is – Thief did receive something of a “nerf”, this patch – no more CnD > wall for permastealth. Also, stealth no longer resets NPC aggro, at the very least (which effects any Stealth-user). Past that, I’m at least willing to see if ANet can walk the walk, RE: the talk of complete culling removal.
Assuming this happens, then we get to see how stealth options work out – in general -
on a level playing field. Once we see how that shapes up, then we can talk whether
further modifications are needed or desired.

Advent.6193:

Ah, the weekly “nerf” post. [cut]

Sorry it’s not weekly, it’s daily and gives OP 1 laurel.

Yet another thread started by someone that doesn’t know how to daze/stun a C&D

Daendur.2357:

Advent.6193:

Ah, the weekly “nerf” post. [cut]

Sorry it’s not weekly, it’s daily and gives OP 1 laurel.

-rofl!- I am beginning to wonder if these folks are getting paid, tbh. I’m still a firm believer in buffing weaker class-specs, as opposed to wholesale nerfs. One option gives more play variety, the other kills it.

Aye, so basic summary be:

1. Ye don’t know much ‘bout ’da thief class, so ye be not knowin how certain mechanics work.
2. Since ye don’t know much ‘bout ’da class, ye call ’fer a nerf instead, since ye can’t deal ’wit em.

What ye need ’ta do is roll a thief, do some leveling ’n spvp, and ye be gettin a feelin ’fer them quickly.

Stealth is ridiculous in this game. Thieves will tell you its a L2P issue. But thats completely BS. Thieves will tell you its all about culling. Thats also BS. Stealth is a completely broken mechanic in WvW. Anyone knows, however thieves deny it and Anet is too busy balancing around sPVP + PVE, totally ignoring WvW.

Im so bored of fighting thieves 1vs1 but it gets even more worse. It strikes me that at least 90% of all solo roamers are thieves nowadays.

It seems about 5% of thieves I run into do any sort of interesting repositioning in stealth. Most d/d thieves run the same route after C&D, most p/d thieves back up to pistol distance and strafe. It’s pretty easy to deal with. The only halfway interesting one is d/p but usually you can just spam where their heartseeker lands and get some pretty good damage.

I’m amazed people cry so much about thief stealth yet I never hear anything about mesmer stealth. I can hide repeatedly AND throw three clones at you.

Thieves are fine.

So please do me the feavor and play Thief. Why dont you? Because you equally often died as a Thief ? Dont you think its time to re-think?

Too long, did not even finish reading.

Culling is a problem in WvW, but a good thief will never be able to one-man-army a party of 4 people. There are plenty of ways to take down a thief, easiest of which is to simply immobilize, daze/stun or C&D them. Stealth does not negate damage, and thieves are hella squishy. A stationary thief is a dead thief.

I suggest you roll a thief and actually l2p before making threads like these.

To my usual gang, we’re now referred as ‘spykids (walking spy kits)’ T.T

I agree Thiefs stealth needs a rework! They should aim towards classic stealth where you see the target if it gets to close!

Thieves can indeed be very annoying. I’m not saying they are totally overpowered but a skilled one can almost always flee a 1 vs. 1 (a lot of times also multiple enemies).
Of course that doesn’t make him unstopable.

But two weeks ago I fought one in the borderland JP. I “defeated” him 4 times. Meaning he went invisible, recovered and came back after that. The 5 time he killed me. That was so kitten frustrating I still remember.

I was better than him multiple times (although not by far I have to admit). But he could always get away and come back and get away again if things didn’t work out.
It’s like he had unlimited tries and I lost as soon as I made only one tiny mistake. And there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it.

I’d have to say, folk need to leave Thief alone. There’re plenty of things going on that punish a Thief. (And other classes, depending)

1.) No more culling. This effects not only stealthers, but large zergs.
2.) Extra Revealed. Punishes any stealther.
3.) Quickness nerf. There went your Hasted melee-thieves.

What’s left, now? A medium armoured class with the lowest health bar in game, and decently strong DPS. Minimal access to Stability, which kills you in a zerg-vs-zerg fight
(and certain small group/solo fights, if your enemy’s smart and removes the Boon).
Minimal access to defensive Boons, period (even Regen on Stealth takes 30 in Shadow Arts, which is a hefty expense). A class mechanic that only becomes truly useful with
a large drop in Trait-points.

Mind you, I run an Evasion/Durability-specced Thief. But, this constant bashing on the profession (or any profession) is massively counterproductive. Especially when one can play (insert profession here) and work out their weaknesses and how to kill them.

/shrug

Advent.6193:

I’d have to say, folk need to leave Thief alone. There’re plenty of things going on that punish a Thief. (And other classes, depending)

What’s left, now? A medium armoured class with the lowest health bar in game, and decently strong DPS. Minimal access to Stability, which kills you in a zerg-vs-zerg fight

They are not the lowest health in the game, Elementalist is, combined with Ele` also having lower armour, Thief out does that stat.
Decently strong dps? LOL! They out dps most, if not all other classes by a long shot.
No idea what Thiefs have Stability wise, though heard they don`t have any wtih others saying very little, so yes, that could do with changing, once they tone down the rest.

Fishbait.6723:

They are not the lowest health in the game, Elementalist is, combined with Ele` also having lower armour, Thief out does that stat.
Decently strong dps? LOL! They out dps most, if not all other classes by a long shot.
No idea what Thiefs have Stability wise, though heard they don`t have any wtih others saying very little, so yes, that could do with changing, once they tone down the rest.

Ele health is balanced by their obscene scaling on Healing stat + Boon access. Thief was supposed to be balanced by stealth and evasion. Guess which of those two factors is the one everyone cries about? Damage depends on spec. Sure, a 25/30/0/0/15 spread hits hard, but its Stealth bites by comparison. A 0/0/30/20/20 has nice regen (especially with shaman/magi/cleric and/or apothecary spreads, but its direct damage is lowered.

The problem with stealth-hate is that it’s a blanket concept. Meanwhile, not all Thieves spec the same. Some are heavy stealth, others heavy evasion. And some are right in the middle. Therefore, it’s less “OMG Thieves are rigged!” and more a
“This Thief killed me … what’s (s)he using?”

the key word is “skilled”

any skilled player on any class can take out a 4 man group.

end of discussion.

thieves are fine. culling solved.
On to the next ‘nerf this’ post.

In Eve Online, for example, if you wanted to be stealthy (cloaking) you had to specialise and had very, very strict rules applied, yet even so it was still a very powerful ability, but there was no having cake, then having everyone elses cake, and eating it all. Because stealth/cloaking is an incredibly powerful weapon in itself, it is a metagame.

Guild wars 2 has stealth completely wrong. Infact it’s amazing just how blisteringly wrong Anet have gotten the thief class. Being able to stealth if anyone has you selected is Anets first complete and utter failure to understand the class they’ve made, that it can be done rapidly is their 2nd, giving it to a class with viciously high DPS (highest in game) and an assortment of ridiculously good skills their 3rd, and it shows they simply don’t get it, at all.

Thankfully in WvW thieves can only get so much done, so they don’t completely dominate, outside of roamers.

Stealth is soo broken in this game no matter of what the thieves mob think.
Beeing able to perma stealth is not right. Most of the thieves claim that you need skill to play such a class..yeah sure..You can run everytime you can’t win, just trolling people and thinking you are pro because no one can kill, running as a coward when things got worse.
Go play another class and try to deal with thief class and you will see a big difference.
In no other mmo you can perma stealth when you are in combat like in GW2.
Why other classes should be forced to fight someone invisible, guess where the thief might be, hit around like crazy hopping you can get him, placing aoe on the ground just so MAYBE he can get inside them. When you face any other class without stealth, you know what the other player is doing, when to avoid his skills, where is he and plan your skills.
With a thief you never win, he run and thats it, after a couple of seconds he is back again and you start to hit again the air hopping..this is just stupid mechanic.
I hope Anet nerf stealth, so you can use 2 times max in a fight not all the time.
Playing thief takes no skill and the people you kill need to perform 3 times more to be able to kill you.
Now go thieves mob, say everything is alright and you such a pro mob…

@Julival
Right. We’ll talk escapes here. Nothing out-escapes a properly played D/D Ele, not even a Thief.
RTL > L. Flash > Mist. Stealth and Shadowstepping grant better lateral movement, yes. But D/D Ele is the straight-line, forward movement God.

As far as the accusation that playing Thief requires no skill…let me amend that for you.
Playing a crappy Thief requires no skill. Understand that many Thief players in WvW are pure FotM drones. Try an S/P or P/P spec, with evasion in lieu of stealth, then talk about “requires no skill.”

Here is Hard Evidence in supporting your claims OP.

Than again, who would “Dare” question them in needing nerfs?

Advent.6193:

@Julival
Right. We’ll talk escapes here. Nothing out-escapes a properly played D/D Ele, not even a Thief.
RTL > L. Flash > Mist. Stealth and Shadowstepping grant better lateral movement, yes. But D/D Ele is the straight-line, forward movement God.

Same old thieves misinformations….

thief mobility > warrior > ele…..

That is proven…
Ele mobility got 3 straight nerfs getting behind warriors…..and seems people are still not happy.

I ve read people to neuter rtl so ele s mobility get near that of mesmers/guardians….paired with healing nerfs…

That seems to be what thieves wants…..
I don t care much because after what i read about reverting last thief nerf, seems complaints war is the way of playing this game….

You win on forums not in game.

LordByron.8369:

Advent.6193:

@Julival
Right. We’ll talk escapes here. Nothing out-escapes a properly played D/D Ele, not even a Thief.
RTL > L. Flash > Mist. Stealth and Shadowstepping grant better lateral movement, yes. But D/D Ele is the straight-line, forward movement God.

Same old thieves misinformations….

thief mobility > warrior > ele…..

That is proven…
Ele mobility got 3 straight nerfs getting behind warriors…..and seems people are still not happy.

I ve read people to neuter rtl so ele s mobility get near that of mesmers/guardians….paired with healing nerfs…

That seems to be what thieves wants…..
I don t care much because after what i read about reverting last thief nerf, seems complaints war is the way of playing this game….

You win on forums not in game.

Seconded, Thief mobility is a hell of a lot higher then D/D Ele`, even more so since the 25% nerf to RTL.

Burnfall.9573:

Here is Hard Evidence in supporting your claims OP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCWywAXmVP4

Than again, who would “Dare” question them in needing nerfs?

Well, the Ele in the video showed exactly how to stop a thief didnt he? If only at least 1 of his team mates was more aware of what to do instead of trying to blindly ress someone with a theif around.

Bottomline, everyone knows that a theif is likely to do a stealth stomp, so l2p that it is better off throwing aoe around ur downed teammate instead of ressing him/her. I don’t get why some people only think of ressing and see no other alternatives

Fishbait.6723:

LordByron.8369:

Advent.6193:

@Julival
Right. We’ll talk escapes here. Nothing out-escapes a properly played D/D Ele, not even a Thief.
RTL > L. Flash > Mist. Stealth and Shadowstepping grant better lateral movement, yes. But D/D Ele is the straight-line, forward movement God.

Same old thieves misinformations….

thief mobility > warrior > ele…..

That is proven…
Ele mobility got 3 straight nerfs getting behind warriors…..and seems people are still not happy.

I ve read people to neuter rtl so ele s mobility get near that of mesmers/guardians….paired with healing nerfs…

That seems to be what thieves wants…..
I don t care much because after what i read about reverting last thief nerf, seems complaints war is the way of playing this game….

You win on forums not in game.

Seconded, Thief mobility is a hell of a lot higher then D/D Ele`, even more so since the 25% nerf to RTL.

33% actually….

P.S. nice tactic to randmly wast your skills just in case a stealthed thief is there..
That i sconsidered thief counterplay by gw2 players…

And horrible unbalance in other games….

What classes are you having problems with thieves on? I’m honestly curious.

Why not get to 80 and get some toughness gear to start. that alone blunts the thieve’s ability to effectively kill you. if you still struggle, perhaps the issue is your or the class and less so the thief?

I’ve never lost to a thief on my Warrior unless jumped at low health (which is what the thief is designed to do so how can I legitimately complain about it?). My ranger can take on like 5 people at once because of the insane regen and bunker aspect of it. My ele will be 2 shot, but rarely can a thief string 2 shots together before I can get away.

I could imagine Necros having issues due to the stealth healing and condi removal. I can see engineers having problems because they lack real escapes. I could see other thieves having problems.

But mesmers, warriors, rangers, eles, guardians? Nah.

Every class has its own special abilities and if you take the time to play around with your traits, armor, runes, accessories, and most importantly, your gameplay, there is no doubt that you can be on the same level as a very skilled thief.

Not every thief can wipe out a 7 man zerg. To maintain perma stealth while in combat and take down 7 enemies all at once is much harder than you think, and many thiefs are not capable of such a feat. If there are two people who know what they’re doing they can and will defeat the thief, even though he/she may be perma stealthing.

As you might know, thiefs are very squishy and cannot take tons of damage. By nerfing stealth AGAIN for the SECOND time, you’ve lost a lot of the gameplay that the thief has to offer.

Just food for thought.

~Grimm

Fishbait.6723:

LordByron.8369:

Advent.6193:

@Julival
Right. We’ll talk escapes here. Nothing out-escapes a properly played D/D Ele, not even a Thief.
RTL > L. Flash > Mist. Stealth and Shadowstepping grant better lateral movement, yes. But D/D Ele is the straight-line, forward movement God.

Same old thieves misinformations….

thief mobility > warrior > ele…..

That is proven…
Ele mobility got 3 straight nerfs getting behind warriors…..and seems people are still not happy.

I ve read people to neuter rtl so ele s mobility get near that of mesmers/guardians….paired with healing nerfs…

That seems to be what thieves wants…..
I don t care much because after what i read about reverting last thief nerf, seems complaints war is the way of playing this game….

You win on forums not in game.

Seconded, Thief mobility is a hell of a lot higher then D/D Ele`, even more so since the 25% nerf to RTL.

Nigh-constant Swiftness and/or Sig of Air have nothing to do with Ele mobility, eh? Let alone the only Downed ability where I can: Drop all my AoE on your guys, get dropped, and then hie my sweet, luscious Sylvari bottom back into the safety of a Tower or Keep? GTFO, folks. I run both at 80, and assure you I can go a lot more glass on my Ele, due to fun things like that. As for RTL, stop joking. That “movement” ability is still untouched by crap like Cripple. Which is funny, since it’s not a teleport.

Truth is, we need to stop nerfing what the local Zerglets call “OP.” They’ll find a new target, faster than the stereotypically promiscuous prom queen drops her bloody garters. We need to -instead- begin buffing the weaker aspects of classes/skills to
properly competitive levels.

Cottage Pie.6215:

giving it to a class with viciously high DPS (highest in game)

Even with the highest DPS in the game, I always get kicked from CoF groups…. interesting….

Maybe, just maybe, thieves don’t have the highest DPS in the game?!!!

Toggles.1783:

Burnfall.9573:

Here is Hard Evidence in supporting your claims OP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCWywAXmVP4

Than again, who would “Dare” question them in needing nerfs?

I’m certain Yishis doesn’t need to play a thief to be able to ‘pwn’ hard.

Of course we could find the very same videos of engis, rangers, eles, mesmers and guardians doing this as well but let’s ignore it because hey, “we hate stealth” and we need to make thief pay for it!

Lets also not forget that well over half the people in the video he kills are upleveled.
Most of the remaining people are glass.
He himself is glass and no one responds properly to a stealthed rogue.

I can’t even count the number of times a thief backstabbed me on my warrior only to find out I have 3k armor, he hit like a wet noodle, and I turn around and rip his head off. In the slim chance he did stealth, I’ll just whirlwind through the refuge which is about the same size as the whirlwind AE and kill him anyway.

I can legitimately see the case if he were an engineer or necro to be upset against a thief. But the failings of these classes have less to do with the thief and more to do with their own class.

nah thieves are fine and totally balanced, probably going to get a thief respond and tell me i was up-leveled or that i suck though

Show video of x class beating y number of Bad/upleveled players. Conclude more nerfs are needed.

@OP, play a lvl 80, or get rid of your zerker set, or learn how other classes work.

The counter to thief happens as soon as their first attack from stealth. There’s no culling anymore, no excuses. If you don’t know what CC is or how to count to 4, it’s not the other class, you’re just bad.

90% of the wvwvw players are just plain kitten bullcrap pvp-wise.
ofc it’s easier to run to the forums and cry and moan and beg for nerf instead to learn to play.

btw scrub (burnfall), your vid is from january.

Syn.3459:

nah thieves are fine and totally balanced, probably going to get a thief respond and tell me i was up-leveled or that i suck though

Glass cannon killed by another glass cannon.

Stop the presses.

Xirin.8593:

Syn.3459:

nah thieves are fine and totally balanced, probably going to get a thief respond and tell me i was up-leveled or that i suck though

Glass cannon killed by another glass cannon.

Stop the presses.

absolutely

I was hit for 10.5k by BS by thief on sPvP while having 2540 armor. I don’t think it should be that way, and he didn’t even had stacking sigil of stacks of might on himself.

While I don’t have any problems with thieves on vs, there’s gap between group fights and solos. Sure, with group you can tank way longer, but when there comes thief who will take 10k health out of you in no time and simply slide away…. answer yourselves…

Syn.3459:

Xirin.8593:

Syn.3459:

nah thieves are fine and totally balanced, probably going to get a thief respond and tell me i was up-leveled or that i suck though

Glass cannon killed by another glass cannon.

Stop the presses.

absolutely

Are you trying to argue that 2300 armor should be considered a defensive-heavy build?

To be fair that video doesn’t show how OP thiefs (stealth) are at all. The targets are basically very very squishy upleveled characters even my support built warrior could slash through and the surrounding players are absolutely dreadful and barely respond, cripes.

I roll a warrior with 3400+ armour depending on traits, armour set and buffs and often (lots of roaming theives, wonder why) take the brunt of a thief spamming heart seeker for near 6k, getting facestabs for 5k and backstabs over 8k (no stacked vuln here), and when I let off interrupts, conditions and aoe freeze, they stealth, and being a warrior I don’t have any way of actually getting out of a combat area fast, I mean it’s not like I can just vanish into thin air and force target loss, I have to actually use my brains (and cooldowns).

I only have this issue with theives.

Other classes are forced to either back off or eventually kill me if I’m caught in a bad place – but they don’t vanish, over and over and over.

Risk free, pause button PvP.

Xirin.8593:

Syn.3459:

Xirin.8593:

Syn.3459:

nah thieves are fine and totally balanced, probably going to get a thief respond and tell me i was up-leveled or that i suck though

Glass cannon killed by another glass cannon.

Stop the presses.

absolutely

Are you trying to argue that 2300 armor should be considered a defensive-heavy build?

Are you trying to argue that 20k health and 2.3k armor should be considered as glass cannon?

Xirin.8593:

Syn.3459:

Xirin.8593:

Syn.3459:

nah thieves are fine and totally balanced, probably going to get a thief respond and tell me i was up-leveled or that i suck though

Glass cannon killed by another glass cannon.

Stop the presses.

absolutely

Are you trying to argue that 2300 armor should be considered a defensive-heavy build?

oh of course, it has nothing to do with my 20.5k health being taken down in 3 skills or anything