Guild Wars 2

i’m really aware that some skilled thieves are untouchables on the ground…

but how is thieves also untouchables in underwater?

last night, we chase 1 thief, at first only 3 ppl chasing him, he run to underwater…the thief was only 25% HP left…

when our team found it the thief didnt die, they came to us and hit the thief hard…like 15 people came…

when in underwater, all he does was evade, evade, evade, evade, evade, evade, evade, …

he has regen and his HP went back to 100%, not a single power or condi damage he’s taken even with 15 people attacking….

how is this even exist in the game? what is anet really mean by “balance”…

thief was already untouchable in the ground for so long, ok thats fine, i lose hope anet will nerf it anyway, so i can just ignore it…now i just found out about this….

i already report the thief, not because i accuse him of cheating, i just want anet to look deeper into this class, and they should know that even with 15 people attacking, its still evade, evade, evade, evade, evade, evade, evade, evade, and his HP went back to 100%…

he didnt even try to run, he just trolling us in the water until we ended up we letting him go…

i repeat, he didnt even try to run, he just stay there, doing some animation, evade, evade, evade, evade, evade, evade, then his HP went back to 100% with 15 people attacking..!!!!

and no, he didnt move, our attack just result in evade, evade, evade, evade, evade,

how,…

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Assault

But unless he had infinite initiative, he shouldn’t be able to spam it forever… Smells fishy, or you are overexagerating.

i’m not overexaggerating….do you really think it can still survive 15 ppl?

like i said, i’m not accusing the thief is cheating, or hacking,….on the ground it is still catchable by some skilled players, but in underwater also? with all those classes attacks? just….wow….

can’t really remember what the animation looks like, at first he was running in circle when he was chased by us, then he slowed down his move, and finally just stand there evading all attacks until his hp went back to 100%, evade, evade, evade, evade, until we decide to let him go…idk how long we chased them…more than 2 minutes for sure…

let’s say he’s not cheating, and he really is a skilled player, that’s perfectly fine, i’m not complaining about skilled player and his class….but is this what anet really want in their so called balance? an untouchable class in all types of battleground? wow…

i met one thief one day, he as on garrison, we have like 20 ppl chasing, no one can touch him, so we let him go…

but this thief, if he’s so skilled, he would have the same skill as the thief i met on garri….but he’s not, we can catch him on the ground and killed him several times….so that means this underwater evade evade skill doesn’t need too much high skill….you can tell where the problem is…

Maybe he was just better than all of you. I can fight 3 people under water on druid if I have objects to los with.

so because u cant kill something means it needs a nerf the nr1 most wanted class in WvW/sPvP obviously needs a nerf..

im playing thief and if u pay attention to his signets u can tell how many dodges the boy has left
3 dodges + 3 more if signet is used + 2 more if he has the healing skill so let say he can do 9 dodges in a fast way then he has to use his skills.

maybe you all did some bullcrap in the water or on land cus thief is not gonna survive 15 people near him

he’s skilled or not,…i dont care, i’m not complaining about that…

nerf it or not….whatever….i’ll find a way eventually….

“does an untouchable and unkillable class in all battleground is really anet’s intentions for thieves, why something unkillable exist in terms of balance”

i knew some of you will post something like that so there, i make it clear…

if anet answer “yes” then so be it…classes were never really balanced anyway…

i dont care how skilled you are can kill 100 players….whatever…

notes : oh we do can kill him when i was on the ground, didn’t you read my post?

@reddie : yes i’m well aware of those skills,

i said, on land we killed him several times, like every times he came to us, either he dead, or runaway…this is the first time we chased him to underwater….

so you agree thief not gonna survive 15 ppl? then thats exactly what my post all about, how is thieves can survive 15 ppl throwing nuke at him while in underwater and why is this exist in terms of balance…

velocity.4621:

“does an untouchable and unkillable class in all battleground is really anet’s intentions for thieves, why something unkillable exist in terms of balance”

Yes, considering that’s the whole point of Daredevil.

ANet is just horrible at designing and balancing professions and that’s all it comes down to. They failed miserably on the Daredevil; it’s more of the same design of the core thief kit, except better.

That said, the thief isn’t OP (though Daredevil is stupid) – I can tell you now one or more of the following happened:

You either got massively out-played; or,
You played terribly; or,
You are exaggerating the truth a lot; or,
He was on a Nomad’s/tank build; or,
He was actually just hacking.

But no, seriously, defenses in the game – across all professions – since HoT are unbelievably overpowered compared to core GW2. Yes, Thief Spear 5 is an evade, but it’s not one which can be spammed for an extended period on its own, certainly not against 15 people. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was running Acrobatics as well to keep his endurance and initiative up with access to an invulnerability as well).

The perma evade underwater thief build has been a thing since release of the game.
It was a huge problem in the old Raid on the Capricorn map. A thief could capture the underwater middle point and just evade to win. No one could kill it and capture the point back.
As very annoying as it is, there’s not much sense in complaining about it at this moment in the game. Underwater combat is broken beyond balance fixes. Only a overall rework could fix all of it’s problem.

lmperdigao.2567:

The perma evade underwater thief build has been a thing since release of the game.
It was a huge problem in the old Raid on the Capricorn map. A thief could capture the underwater middle point and just evade to win. No one could kill it and capture the point back.
As very annoying as it is, there’s not much sense in complaining about it at this moment in the game. Underwater combat is broken beyond balance fixes. Only a overall rework could fix all of it’s problem.

It’s only good underwater in melee-only encounters in a 1v1 due to spear 2 being a cheap evade. Shadow Assault is the most expensive initiative cost in the game and can only be used twice consecutively, with a two second delay after the second cast, and a five second delay each cast for every subsequent one. The thief will evade everything for a few seconds, and then get dunked if just waited out and punished. That is a LONG time to go without having anything to do.

Ranger and warrior are the real kings of U/W combat, and to some extent, necro if it’s a brief encounter, given life force due to death shroud being much better than most underwater abilities.

It’s borked, but I think complaining about thief’s U/W capabilities is a bit ridiculous in most contexts.

I don’t know if they changed it because I don’t play my thief in a long time. But I know for a fact that back in the day, there was a build with more initiative regeneration that you could spam one after the other and you had almost literally perma evade while underwater, with a very very little downtime.

Firstly, why did 15 people chase it in the water?

Secondly, I agree we need some sort of insta death penalty when more than 10 chars hit a soloer. ie the ten drop dead.

The trick will be in preventing it triggering in zvz but I am willing to see a few errors if it prevents “stacks on the mill” style fighting.

I would suggest a 20 min sin bin timer room at the spawn as well but that may confuse newer players.

@ Imp:

I didn’t touch U/W combat early on since I hate three dimensional (air/water) free-movement combat in all games, but I do know that no such build has existed for the past several years.

There may have been stealth or something on the kit at one point way early on which would have interacted with the un-fixed Infusion of Shadow in 2012/early release (a trait which then also got removed entirely in 2015 even after being fixed) – which was broken at the time of/around release on every single thief build, anyways (until it was fixed). Otherwise, there’s really nothing in the kit that’d support such continuous evasion, and if there was, it hasn’t been around for a very long time.

elkirin.8534:

Firstly, why did 15 people chase it in the water?

Secondly, I agree we need some sort of insta death penalty when more than 10 chars hit a soloer. ie the ten drop dead.

The trick will be in preventing it triggering in zvz but I am willing to see a few errors if it prevents “stacks on the mill” style fighting.

I would suggest a 20 min sin bin timer room at the spawn as well but that may confuse newer players.

Clearly you have not played against a server like Mag, which pretty much only runs groups of 10-20 to take down groups of 3-5 enemies. Penalizing smaller groups is no way to structure WvW, and puts dis-incentives on running smaller groups, which have already almost totally died out with HoT and the nerf to guilds/small-scale build diversity.

That might be it, I know that once it was true but I didn’t see it happening in a looong time, so something might have changed.
And I agree with you. If we gonna talk about underwater unbalance, rangers are still by far the worst offenders.

Skills #2 and #5 both evade underwater and both are hungry with inative, may be 3 shadow assults and it’s over. TheRe is no way in hell 15 could not kill a thief underwater, I think what you’re saying is a load of rubbish.