Guild Wars 2

Now is the time. As of the time of this post, Sept. 20th, 2015.

As T2 is becoming stable and things are getting more balanced its only a matter of time before transfer prices go up and/or the servers become locked due to upcoming HoT expansion + fairweathers and people coming back for HoT. If you wait too long you will miss the opportunity.

There is still a lot of space on SOS and FA in NA prime time as well as other time zones (except SOS OCX).

T2 is looking for WvW players who want to become part of the server communities, we do not want GvGs or guilds that might as well not exist because they never get on TS or never run outside of their own groups and thus might as well not exist.

We are looking for individual players as well as guilds interested in playing in this tier who are looking for a new home and would like to make more friends and become part of our servers communities. As stated above, we still have a lot of room even in NA prime time and even on reset nights.

How about we stay where we are?

So Tier 2 is now universally known as the non-GvG tier?

All three servers are in accord?

Jayne.9251:

So Tier 2 is now universally known as the non-GvG tier?

All three servers are in accord?

Thought this was the case when they all moved to t3.

DJ Klemintino.5781:

Jayne.9251:

So Tier 2 is now universally known as the non-GvG tier?

All three servers are in accord?

Thought this was the case when they all moved to t3.

I just found it odd one person speaking for an entire tier, but if that’s the case, then good info to have out there for new people coming into the game.

I am so happy that EU have more rotating matchup on their top tiers and no server have the same matchup month after month.

I would say both T1 through T3 are pretty stable at the moment.

Wouldn’t it be nice if there was an in-game tool where a new player or returning player or a veteran player could match up their playtime with a server’s needs BEFORE spending gems to transfer?

Leaa.2943:

I am so happy that EU have more rotating matchup on their top tiers and no server have the same matchup month after month.

They need an emote that shows sarcasm

Pretty sure OP is speaking for OP only and showing the anti gvg attitude he/she has shown before…..

Liston.9708:

Pretty sure OP is speaking for OP only and showing the anti gvg attitude he/she has shown before…..

He’s not wrong though , all the “high profile” GvG guilds have moved to T3, if a GvG guild were to come T2 they’d be extremely limited on competition.

Guilds can gvg in guild halls soon. WvW and GvG should have less conflict in the future.

AmberUK.5380:

Leaa.2943:

I am so happy that EU have more rotating matchup on their top tiers and no server have the same matchup month after month.

They need an emote that shows sarcasm

I was not the slightest sarcastic, NA and EU are very different and EU have different matchup which NA never do. Up to now when YB broke in it was the same mu month after month in the top tiers.

lolitsage.2185:

Liston.9708:

Pretty sure OP is speaking for OP only and showing the anti gvg attitude he/she has shown before…..

He’s not wrong though , all the “high profile” GvG guilds have moved to T3, if a GvG guild were to come T2 they’d be extremely limited on competition.

While this is true, look at the OPs post history – disdains gvg guilds…..

Liston.9708:

lolitsage.2185:

Liston.9708:

Pretty sure OP is speaking for OP only and showing the anti gvg attitude he/she has shown before…..

He’s not wrong though , all the “high profile” GvG guilds have moved to T3, if a GvG guild were to come T2 they’d be extremely limited on competition.

While this is true, look at the OPs post history – disdains gvg guilds…..

The only people responsible for my thoughts on GVG guilds are GVG guilds, and as such, the only people responsible for changing that into positive light are also GVG guilds. There are many of us who experienced their worst. Yes there are some decent ones, but unfortunately they do not seperate themselves from the kittened up ones and as long as they blindly stick together they are part of the problem as well by doing so.

Overall they have brought nothing but toxicity in maps while playing WvW and decline of server community. Good riddance.

SOS without them is becoming a really nice place and we are growing back our server community and getting new players and transfers alike. Everything from single players to guilds of various sizes from all over.

As of this morning all my original points of this thread still stand. At the current rate its only a matter of time before the system catches up and SOS flips to very high thus increasing the transfer prices and there are still players out there who are and were interested for a long time but were holding back due to the instabilities and may not be aware of what is going on.

So I created this post specifically for such people, hopefully some of them will see it, read it or someone else will tell them about it.

And I am not wrong, most T2 wants their communities reastablished and back. Just look at some of the threads here as well as redit or cancer board, doesnt take a genius to be able to find them, or better yet hop onto the TS and talk to people like I do. That is the best source and best way to gauge a server. I happened to have some very interesting conversations about this recently with various commanders on SOS, FA as well as 1 or 2 that came from TC, and while some details vary, they are all pretty much in accord as a whole.

Only people that are opposed to re establishing communities in T2, are naturally, the GVG guilds that transferred to T3 out of spite and they’re fans or whatever you wanna call them and possibly those that have manipulated the whole YB overstacking fiasco and fans of that. there may be an occasional lower tier person here and there as we are getting some folks from them.

You can have your opinions – and opinions are not wrong – they are personal POV. The only part I took exception to was your statement “T2 is looking…, WE DO NOT WANT GVG”. That speaks from your POV not 3 servers…. Others in T2 considered the loss of those guilds a bad thing for the tier. Yes, some of them are toxic, but so are some non-gvg people too….

Either way, good luck. I do fear that T1 and T2 are going to become locked again. Matches against the same opponent every week just gets dull eventually….

Liston.9708:

That speaks from your POV not 3 servers….

Matches against the same opponent every week just gets dull eventually….

Now now, remember not to speak for everyone.

GvG guilds like match stagnation for obvious reasons and try to manipulate as hard as they can to keep things stagnant. So are you SURE you like them in your tier?

Leaa.2943:

AmberUK.5380:

Leaa.2943:

I am so happy that EU have more rotating matchup on their top tiers and no server have the same matchup month after month.

They need an emote that shows sarcasm

I was not the slightest sarcastic, NA and EU are very different and EU have different matchup which NA never do. Up to now when YB broke in it was the same mu month after month in the top tiers.

Well rarely on our tier

displayname.8315:

Liston.9708:

That speaks from your POV not 3 servers….

Matches against the same opponent every week just gets dull eventually….

Now now, remember not to speak for everyone.

GvG guilds like match stagnation for obvious reasons and try to manipulate as hard as they can to keep things stagnant. So are you SURE you like them in your tier?

I only ever speak for me and not others….. Fact is no server – much less an entire tier – all think the same way. You just have to read the other forum to see where someone is always complaining…….

I also don’t think manipulation to stagnate a tier for gvg will be an issue in 1 month – my opinion only…..

Liston.9708:

I only ever speak for me and not others….. Fact is no server – much less an entire tier – all think the same way. You just have to read the other forum to see where someone is always complaining…….

I also don’t think manipulation to stagnate a tier for gvg will be an issue in 1 month – my opinion only…..

Agreed. Here’s to hoping they don’t demand a so called “fights tier” or say that BL’s and OS are better than guild halls.

PPT guilds can be just as toxic as those that GvG – look at certain ppt guilds back in T1, for example. SoS still has guilds that will GvG as does TC. I’m not sure about FA. They may not be the big names, but they do still exist. Some guilds are in “sleep” mode that GvG in T2 but will return. Some GvG guilds in T3 who also enjoy raiding have talked about coming up to T2 again when expansion drops. Guilds will move to where the tier is best for them regardless of what you or anyone else thinks. Again, look at a certain T1 server – it made a move that destroyed 9 server communities but hey, they don’t GvG so it’s not toxic, right?

WvW is a balance between those that want fights and those who do not. Whether fight guilds use a server TS or not doesn’t really matter; they still play an active role in assisting the server by wiping the enemy zerg so players like you – who prefer to ppt, which is perfectly okay – can freely cap.

Besides, with guild halls coming out, most plan to spread out where it’s good raiding for the size of the GvG guild and then fight other guilds in their guild hall when they want to GvG. A larger guild may prefer T2 because the fights are bigger; a smaller one may stay T3 or even T4 (yes, GvG exists outside of T3, imagine that). The only thing preventing a 100% absolute on this is that the arenas currently may only hold up to 15v15 and some guilds prefer 20v20, which has to be done in the OS.

Basically, stop worrying about where and what other people are doing, find a guild that does the things you like to do, and if you don’t like a certain player or guild on your server you always have the option to ignore or block them.

Signed, a GvGer in T2 <3

DJ Klemintino.5781:

Jayne.9251:

So Tier 2 is now universally known as the non-GvG tier?

All three servers are in accord?

Thought this was the case when they all moved to t3.

Not all of us…

displayname.8315:

Liston.9708:

That speaks from your POV not 3 servers….

Matches against the same opponent every week just gets dull eventually….

Now now, remember not to speak for everyone.

GvG guilds like match stagnation for obvious reasons and try to manipulate as hard as they can to keep things stagnant. So are you SURE you like them in your tier?

Wait, let’s get this straight.

GvGs might like match stagnation because they want the servers to stay together and so they don’t have to PPT. Ok sure.

But of course to do this “match manipulation”, they’d have to manipulate PPT, and given how PPT is a 24 hour fight, they’d spend more time manipulating this than actually GvG’ing.

I would like to see some evidence of a large scale, coordinated, occurrence of GvGers attempting to manipulate glicko as such because I really do want Arenanet to become aware of the secret GvG Illuminati manipulating our structures. Well, at least until Guild Halls come out rendering the whole point moot.

ArchonWing.9480:

displayname.8315:

Liston.9708:

That speaks from your POV not 3 servers….

Matches against the same opponent every week just gets dull eventually….

Now now, remember not to speak for everyone.

GvG guilds like match stagnation for obvious reasons and try to manipulate as hard as they can to keep things stagnant. So are you SURE you like them in your tier?

Wait, let’s get this straight.

GvGs might like match stagnation because they want the servers to stay together and so they don’t have to PPT. Ok sure.

But of course to do this “match manipulation”, they’d have to manipulate PPT, and given how PPT is a 24 hour fight, they’d spend more time manipulating this than actually GvG’ing.

I would like to see some evidence of a large scale occurrence of GvGers attempting to manipulate glicko as such.

Bravo.

ArchonWing.9480:

I would like to see some evidence of a large scale occurrence of GvGers attempting to manipulate glicko as such.

Did you not see the spreadsheet when those guilds xferred to T3? They made sure to usurp all 3 servers at once. Of course they rule the roost there now.. numbers advantage ftw.

Before that T2 was empty enough they could fix things nice and neat, kick out NSP if they don’t consider them worthy of their “dojo”.. Their big mistake was trying to take on the throne, YB showed them what’s up.

Don’t get me wrong I wish there was some kind of tier 0 separate from the bronze/silver/gold ladder. When EoTM was announced I thought oh man finally somewhere to just have fun. Too bad that didn’t work out.

displayname.8315:

ArchonWing.9480:

I would like to see some evidence of a large scale occurrence of GvGers attempting to manipulate glicko as such.

Did you not see the spreadsheet when those guilds xferred to T3? They made sure to usurp all 3 servers at once. Of course they rule the roost there now.. numbers advantage ftw.

Well, let’s think about this logically.

• If they all stacked on the same server, how would they “GvG” anyways?
• If they stacked unequally, that would cause one server to have a massive advantage and destroy the tier, as well as the other two servers. The people that are there, wouldn’t be happy.
• What other alternatives could you propose to become a non-issue?
• Numbers is not the sole factor to win a match-up. Coverage, round the clock coverage is and it would appear that many GvG’ers are the NA time zone, and they need to do some “balanced” and coordinated PvDoor for that to work.
• T3 naturally has coverage gaps that cause this stagnation. Maguuma for example has no SEA, and SBI has no EU, and thus were already even mostly even before the GvG movement came along. Even if there were a push for match manipulation, it wouldn’t be the GvG’ers that needed to help. I think there’s a confusion with cause and correlation here. Wouldn’t it be easier to transfer to t8 where their population presence would be decisive?
• Right now, Maguuma is ticking 350 while they’re taking SBIBL against a moderately sized set of of disorganized pugs. I bet Garrison’s almost gone. I don’t have to log on to know this because this has happened for the last 3 months before the GvG’ers came.
• Logically speaking, the ideal would be to have guilds constantly rotate, but gold isn’t always easy.

Before that T2 was empty enough they could fix things nice and neat, kick out NSP if they don’t consider them worthy of their “dojo”.. Their big mistake was trying to take on the throne, YB showed them what’s up.

I have definitely recalled certain fairly arrogant individuals that would threaten to control T2 if the incoming server did not conform to their style of play. However, I don’t think they were associating with GvG’ing. That I think was the opinion of certain individuals and certainly I developed a certain feeling that this was mostly propaganda and nonsense. So this mentality may have existed. Does anyone recall of any T2 matchfixing?

Don’t get me wrong I wish there was some kind of tier 0 separate from the bronze/silver/gold ladder. When EoTM was announced I thought oh man finally somewhere to just have fun. Too bad that didn’t work out.

EOTM was a good idea but I just think there’s too many things to made it easier to be a convenient karma train. Unfortunately, they said that EOTM would be a test bed for the future of WvW and I have not seen anything.

ArchonWing.9480:

• If they all stacked on the same server, how would they “GvG” anyways?
• If they stacked unequally, that would cause one server to have a massive advantage and destroy the tier, as well as the other two servers. The people that are there, wouldn’t be happy.

For sure they get points for balancing servers. It’s the bad sportsmanship that is inexcusable. They may need stagnation but trying to hurt or implode others servers to get it is bad behavior.

ArchonWing.9480:

Wouldn’t it be easier to transfer to t8 where their population presence would be decisive?

Myself and others have proposed that also. The answer came as “we also want to farm pugs not just fight guild vs guild”

ArchonWing.9480:

Numbers … Coverage.. T3 … Maguuma

Maguuma was not T3. They were built and brought to T3 for this very reason. To maintain a stagnant fights tier. Congrats mission accomplished.

Don’t think of just the coverage of maguuma or any 1 server. It’s a cross server alliance. Dosen’t really matter how strong the alliance is since its 3 servers.

ArchonWing.9480:

I have definitely recalled certain fairly arrogant individuals that would threaten to control T2 if the incoming server did not conform to their style of play. However, I don’t think they were associating with GvG’ing.

I think most of these individuals were associated with GvG’ing.

ArchonWing.9480:

Does anyone recall of any T2 matchfixing?

They tried.. oh boy did they try.

Sorry if I left anything unanswered bbl

For sure they get points for balancing servers. It’s the bad sportsmanship that is inexcusable. They may need stagnation but trying to hurt or implode others servers to get it is bad behavior.

Well, that’s a fair point, and if they were doing such a thing, then I think that would be unacceptable.

Myself and others have proposed that also. The answer came as “we also want to farm pugs not just fight guild vs guild”

Farming other servers seems like a notable past time I guess, but we shall see if Guild Halls will change this.

Maguuma was not T3. They were built and brought to T3 for this very reason. To maintain a stagnant fights tier. Congrats mission accomplished.

Yea actually they were not t3; they were actually T2 and had an implosion and seem to have rebuilt though it seems to have coincided with the expansion being announced. I’m not sure myself.

I’m sure there are people that think like that, fine, but there’s also a lot of people that play for PPT rather aggressively. However, I am not sure if the vague notion of “fights” is the exact same thing as GvG. And anyhow, regardless if say the entity Maguuma wanted a fight tier or not, the GvG “takeover” was hardly planned because had T2 not gone through that shakeup, the GvG guilds would have not moved down, so such a plan to create a tier as a springboard for GvG’ers to take over servers would either be an insane plot that could see far into the future, or it was just dumb luck. So even if there is matchfixing, it’s not really the GvG doing. Unfortunately, I just don’t feel comfortable launching this accusation at an entire server.

I think most of these individuals were associated with GvG’ing.

I am not sure about that. There was just a lot of talk about so called “fight culture”. Currently I don’t think that moved to t3 either, as I’ve not seen anyone say “fite tier” with a straight face.

On the other hand, I have actually noted actual attempts of “server takeovers”, such as having friends and guildies on Yak’s Bend complaining about such a thing. I think in those cases, there’s a very clear trail, as the effects are quite destructive. As for the GvG thing, I have seen disruptions as well, but not necessarily at a level enough to disrupt the matchup itself. Then again, I have also read complaints from T3 about such a thing as well, but the evidence seems a bit more vague and more restricted to ancedotes.

But, rest assured, once Guild Halls show up, I think those that are just here to gvg and not really play wvw will be less of a problem. And certainly, nobody likes people that try to take over anything or enforce their own way of playing without a hint of concern to interact with the community. So, we can agree on that, maybe.

Good read I see why your the specialist.

ArchonWing.9480:

Yea actually they were not t3; they were actually T2 and had an implosion and seem to have rebuilt though it seems to have coincided with the expansion being announced. I’m not sure myself.

Correct. And from the words of those that payed and recuited to rebuild it, the intent was this “fights tier” stuff again.

ArchonWing.9480:

regardless if say the entity Maguuma wanted a fight tier or not, the GvG “takeover” was hardly planned because had T2 not gone through that shakeup, the GvG guilds would have not moved down, so such a plan to create a tier as a springboard for GvG’ers to take over servers would either be an insane plot that could see far into the future, or it was just dumb luck.

Jumping to the conclusion that this was all done for T2 would be crazy. Well in a way it probably was to attract people of their ilk.

It was certainly a golden bridge for them to retreat across.

ArchonWing.9480:

I have actually noted actual attempts of “server takeovers”, such as having friends and guildies on Yak’s Bend complaining about such a thing. I think in those cases, there’s a very clear trail, as the effects are quite destructive.

If you think about it what did they destroy really?

The massive influx of players to FA destroyed serveral lower tiers as it caused bandwagoning. The massive exodus of these same players FROM FA caused the destruction of sos/fa. Those moving to YB didnt do much IMO.

displayname.8315:

ArchonWing.9480:

I would like to see some evidence of a large scale occurrence of GvGers attempting to manipulate glicko as such.

Did you not see the spreadsheet when those guilds xferred to T3? They made sure to usurp all 3 servers at once. Of course they rule the roost there now.. numbers advantage ftw.

Before that T2 was empty enough they could fix things nice and neat, kick out NSP if they don’t consider them worthy of their “dojo”.. Their big mistake was trying to take on the throne, YB showed them what’s up.

Don’t get me wrong I wish there was some kind of tier 0 separate from the bronze/silver/gold ladder. When EoTM was announced I thought oh man finally somewhere to just have fun. Too bad that didn’t work out.

Nice spread of misinformation!

The GvG guilds created a spread sheet so they could spread out and fight each other. At the time, T3 was safely locked in because YB had yet to completely destroy SoS and FA while T4 was relatively far off from a rotation. The guilds spread across the three servers so that they could fight the guilds they were interested in fighting, both open field and in the OS. They did ask that not everyone pile into SBI and form another YB on accident, but guilds went wherever they were happy with the quality of other guilds to scrim against. If anyone went in with the idea to match manipulate, well… we know who it was and it wasn’t any guild that regularly GvGs (it’s one that dodges GvGs to PPT, in fact lol).

ArchonWing.9480:

For sure they get points for balancing servers. It’s the bad sportsmanship that is inexcusable. They may need stagnation but trying to hurt or implode others servers to get it is bad behavior.

Well, that’s a fair point, and if they were doing such a thing, then I think that would be unacceptable.

Myself and others have proposed that also. The answer came as “we also want to farm pugs not just fight guild vs guild”

Farming other servers seems like a notable past time I guess, but we shall see if Guild Halls will change this.

Maguuma was not T3. They were built and brought to T3 for this very reason. To maintain a stagnant fights tier. Congrats mission accomplished.

Yea actually they were not t3; they were actually T2 and had an implosion and seem to have rebuilt though it seems to have coincided with the expansion being announced. I’m not sure myself.

I’m sure there are people that think like that, fine, but there’s also a lot of people that play for PPT rather aggressively. However, I am not sure if the vague notion of “fights” is the exact same thing as GvG. And anyhow, regardless if say the entity Maguuma wanted a fight tier or not, the GvG “takeover” was hardly planned because had T2 not gone through that shakeup, the GvG guilds would have not moved down, so such a plan to create a tier as a springboard for GvG’ers to take over servers would either be an insane plot that could see far into the future, or it was just dumb luck. So even if there is matchfixing, it’s not really the GvG doing. Unfortunately, I just don’t feel comfortable launching this accusation at an entire server.

I think most of these individuals were associated with GvG’ing.

I am not sure about that. There was just a lot of talk about so called “fight culture”. Currently I don’t think that moved to t3 either, as I’ve not seen anyone say “fite tier” with a straight face.

On the other hand, I have actually noted actual attempts of “server takeovers”, such as having friends and guildies on Yak’s Bend complaining about such a thing. I think in those cases, there’s a very clear trail, as the effects are quite destructive. As for the GvG thing, I have seen disruptions as well, but not necessarily at a level enough to disrupt the matchup itself. Then again, I have also read complaints from T3 about such a thing as well, but the evidence seems a bit more vague and more restricted to ancedotes.

But, rest assured, once Guild Halls show up, I think those that are just here to gvg and not really play wvw will be less of a problem. And certainly, nobody likes people that try to take over anything or enforce their own way of playing without a hint of concern to interact with the community. So, we can agree on that, maybe.

Having friends in T3 before my GvG friends dropped to the tier, I can say that Mag had no intention of coming back up to T2 because of how similar it was becoming to T1. That is to say the T1 playstyle relies heavily on more PPT and backcapping with less fights. That’s what T1 likes, that’s what T1 does, but not everyone wants to do that. T2 was a mixture of that, but when fight guilds have to coax guilds out from a tower filled with siege it’s just not interesting. Mag held itself off to prevent the server from going into that particular playstyle. The only other alternative is to have players constantly buying gems and moving around, but money doesn’t really grow on trees.

You’re also correct as to why T2 guilds moved to T3. T3 was stable and guilds on YB couldn’t raid because of the massive queues from the PPT guild takeover. If your guild can’t play the portion of the game it likes to play, it dies. So the YB guilds said they were off to T3 and the guilds on SoS and FA who wanted to fight them said they would follow. They did this because they didn’t want to fight pugs, doors, or arrow carts, so I don’t believe for a second any self-respecting GvG guild dropped to T3 to farm pugs. We can go to EOTM if we really cared enough to farm bags. They dropped to survive and keep up the gamemode until arenas come out which, as I said before, the guilds will likely move across the tiers at that point to where they can have fun in raiding on a BL now that servers won’t matter for scrims.

I get that people want to rant about bad attitudes in fight guilds, but I’ve met some nasty people across my time in T1-3 who were in PPT guilds, who were simply pugs, and even that one time a developer caused trouble. They exist everywhere, and if someone is that bothersome to you, block them. If it’s a reportable offense, report them (I’ve had to report many a player in WvW for misconduct). Players have a right to be on whatever server they see fit for their guild and playstyle regardless of what one bad apple has done to anyone here.

Aerial Melodies.4938:

Having friends in T3 before my GvG friends dropped to the tier, I can say that Mag had no intention of coming back up to T2 because of how similar it was becoming to T1. That is to say the T1 playstyle relies heavily on more PPT and backcapping with less fights. That’s what T1 likes, that’s what T1 does, but not everyone wants to do that. T2 was a mixture of that, but when fight guilds have to coax guilds out from a tower filled with siege it’s just not interesting. Mag held itself off to prevent the server from going into that particular playstyle. The only other alternative is to have players constantly buying gems and moving around, but money doesn’t really grow on trees.

You’re also correct as to why T2 guilds moved to T3. T3 was stable and guilds on YB couldn’t raid because of the massive queues from the PPT guild takeover. If your guild can’t play the portion of the game it likes to play, it dies. So the YB guilds said they were off to T3 and the guilds on SoS and FA who wanted to fight them said they would follow. They did this because they didn’t want to fight pugs, doors, or arrow carts, so I don’t believe for a second any self-respecting GvG guild dropped to T3 to farm pugs. We can go to EOTM if we really cared enough to farm bags. They dropped to survive and keep up the gamemode until arenas come out which, as I said before, the guilds will likely move across the tiers at that point to where they can have fun in raiding on a BL now that servers won’t matter for scrims.

I get that people want to rant about bad attitudes in fight guilds, but I’ve met some nasty people across my time in T1-3 who were in PPT guilds, who were simply pugs, and even that one time a developer caused trouble. They exist everywhere, and if someone is that bothersome to you, block them. If it’s a reportable offense, report them (I’ve had to report many a player in WvW for misconduct). Players have a right to be on whatever server they see fit for their guild and playstyle regardless of what one bad apple has done to anyone here.

Those paragraphs are huge. As far as I can tell your confirming T3 servers are tanking (glicko manipulation), and that they don’t want to play any of the aspects of WvW. Sorry but where is this misinformation you speak of?

I agree its hard to play WvW with your 15s and 20s class comp.. dosen’t work out too well when you fight a real WvW’er.

Aerial Melodies.4938:

I get that people want to rant about bad attitudes in fight guilds, but I’ve met some nasty people across my time in T1-3 who were in PPT guilds, who were simply pugs, and even that one time a developer caused trouble. They exist everywhere, and if someone is that bothersome to you, block them. If it’s a reportable offense, report them (I’ve had to report many a player in WvW for misconduct). Players have a right to be on whatever server they see fit for their guild and playstyle regardless of what one bad apple has done to anyone here.

Careful with the labels. In my experience it’s that language that causes the most friction, because there’s a perception that “pugs are baddies” (when they’re not) and that “GvG guilds are elitist @ sshats” (when they’re not). And then it all derails into a battle of egos, when that’s SO not necessary.

Fight guilds want fights. PPT guilds want high scores. BOTH sides can coexist on a map and actually benefit each other, if you get beyond the name-calling and long-existing bitterness on both sides.

PPT guild can call out enemy movement, and those GvG guilds can then get all the fights they want, while the PPT guilds can manage control of the towers/keeps. It’s win-win.

Neither side is more entitled than the other to occupy spots on the map. But both sides can create a beautiful dynamic, given an effort to cooperate.

displayname.8315:

The massive influx of players to FA destroyed serveral lower tiers as it caused bandwagoning. The massive exodus of these same players FROM FA caused the destruction of sos/fa. Those moving to YB didnt do much IMO.

But did it really?

VP, JINX, and DN all came from T1, BG. I believe HG/DAWN also came to FA from BG at that time. Ra/NEWS/ME showed up unexpectedly from Chinese servers, not lower tier NA. Some of the other guilds that came from lower tier servers had left long before the massive exodus, for example: BEEP, VLK, and RP. I believe only PS and possibly END/Adv could be counted as being from a lower tier and then leaving during the mass exodus. It would be useless to mention the exodus of GvG guilds here or guilds like CL, OBEY, WS, and PVP here as “these same players” since those guilds had played on FA for a long time before the bandwagonning.

Players stacking into DB and causing uncertainty for their GvG guilds hurt SOS. That caused some guilds to leave SOS and go to YB, FA, and DB. A lot of those players that stacked into DB though had also played a lot in T2, transferred there from Maguuma for example. I think TIME and BS were about the only guilds that went to DB then who hadn’t played in T2.

What I’m saying is that the majority of what was going on in T2 6-9 months ago was movement primarily by T1/T2/T3 players, not the lower tiers. What’s really been hurtful for the lower tiers, including T2, has been the ability to auto-click into Full T1 servers and servers holding blackouts to do it. That’s been going on since before Season 1. No more finally.

HI CHABA

If you say warchests didn’t gut the lower tiers and especially IoJ then I believe you. Adding to that stacking effect being more and more people from lower tiers hopping on board with the latest bandwagon causing further destruction.

Can we agree that YB are the golden boys of WvW and they didn’t destroy T2, it was all these people moving in and then out?

displayname.8315:

HI CHABA

If you say warchests didn’t gut the lower tiers and especially IoJ then I believe you.

Can we agree that YB are the golden boys of WvW and they didn’t destroy T2, it was all these people moving in and then out?

Look, I don’t know the reason why WOLF suddenly disbanded and Mexay moved to T1 with a few others. It’s probably the same reason as it is for most players; they leave because they’re not having fun. If more people go to watch Ant-man than they do Pixels, it isn’t because Ant-man had a higher budget. And lower tier servers also have warchests btw.

Chaba.5410:

displayname.8315:

HI CHABA

If you say warchests didn’t gut the lower tiers and especially IoJ then I believe you.

Can we agree that YB are the golden boys of WvW and they didn’t destroy T2, it was all these people moving in and then out?

Look, I don’t know the reason why WOLF suddenly disbanded and Mexay moved to T1 with a few others. It’s probably the same reason as it is for most players; they leave because they’re not having fun. If more people go to watch Ant-man than they do Pixels, it isn’t because Ant-man had a higher budget. And lower tier servers also have warchests btw.

Not all of them. In my 3 years w/ eBay, I haven’t seen one yet even we have discussed in length of what a war chest could do. I can’t say much about other servers.

Think you have a misconception. Usually it’s the PPT try hards screaming at the top of their lungs that cause the friction in a server. The ones that were once able to ktrain and pvd to glory. Isn’t that what the friction in SOS was? Their OCX pvd vs everyone else not carrying their weight?

Look there’s PPT, then PPT try hard. PPT usually encompasses somewhat of a fight. The tryhards either a) wait til everyone sleeps and knock out doors and show how awesome they are or b) a dominating time zone for X server and thinking they are Anet’s gift of pvd. EU generally PPT’s to generate fights. While NA PPT tryhards, knock a gate then sees some resistance and runs away. Where you spend 2/3 hours of your raid chasing a tail.

GvG guilds have some bad apples. But don’t go on saying, the PPT ktrain commanders aren’t full of themselves either. seems like they are congregating back on t1.5 lite. T3 is not so much glicko manipulation. It’s that there’s no incentive to go up against heavy off hour coverage chest thumping.

shiri.4257:

Think you have a misconception. Usually it’s the PPT try hards screaming at the top of their lungs that cause the friction in a server. The ones that were once able to ktrain and pvd to glory. Isn’t that what the friction in SOS was? Their OCX pvd vs everyone else not carrying their weight?

This is in fact wrong. The “friction” was on who wanted to push to T1 and who didn’t. The reason behind that push was because OCX wanted something to fight BESIDES doors. They didn’t want to PvD anymore….because it’s boring. They wanted to fight other players and the only place with that coverage at the time was T1. Some on our NA were willing to try and help, others were not. Our NA would’ve been vastly outnumbered in T1, hence some were more hesitant. Any other reason given behind said “friction” is a lie.

Jayne.9251:

Aerial Melodies.4938:

I get that people want to rant about bad attitudes in fight guilds, but I’ve met some nasty people across my time in T1-3 who were in PPT guilds, who were simply pugs, and even that one time a developer caused trouble. They exist everywhere, and if someone is that bothersome to you, block them. If it’s a reportable offense, report them (I’ve had to report many a player in WvW for misconduct). Players have a right to be on whatever server they see fit for their guild and playstyle regardless of what one bad apple has done to anyone here.

Careful with the labels. In my experience it’s that language that causes the most friction, because there’s a perception that “pugs are baddies” (when they’re not) and that “GvG guilds are elitist @ sshats” (when they’re not). And then it all derails into a battle of egos, when that’s SO not necessary.

Fight guilds want fights. PPT guilds want high scores. BOTH sides can coexist on a map and actually benefit each other, if you get beyond the name-calling and long-existing bitterness on both sides.

PPT guild can call out enemy movement, and those GvG guilds can then get all the fights they want, while the PPT guilds can manage control of the towers/keeps. It’s win-win.

Neither side is more entitled than the other to occupy spots on the map. But both sides can create a beautiful dynamic, given an effort to cooperate.

The labels? I’m 100% in agreement with you so I assume you didn’t mean to tell me to not label groups as one thing or another. I was simply calling out examples of non-GvG guilds/players that I have come across who were equally as hostile as some members of the GvG community. The bad apples do not equal the whole of everyone that exists in that particular playstyle, so we actually agree. Sorry if you misread my words otherwise.

displayname.8315:

Aerial Melodies.4938:

Having friends in T3 before my GvG friends dropped to the tier, I can say that Mag had no intention of coming back up to T2 because of how similar it was becoming to T1. That is to say the T1 playstyle relies heavily on more PPT and backcapping with less fights. That’s what T1 likes, that’s what T1 does, but not everyone wants to do that. T2 was a mixture of that, but when fight guilds have to coax guilds out from a tower filled with siege it’s just not interesting. Mag held itself off to prevent the server from going into that particular playstyle. The only other alternative is to have players constantly buying gems and moving around, but money doesn’t really grow on trees.

You’re also correct as to why T2 guilds moved to T3. T3 was stable and guilds on YB couldn’t raid because of the massive queues from the PPT guild takeover. If your guild can’t play the portion of the game it likes to play, it dies. So the YB guilds said they were off to T3 and the guilds on SoS and FA who wanted to fight them said they would follow. They did this because they didn’t want to fight pugs, doors, or arrow carts, so I don’t believe for a second any self-respecting GvG guild dropped to T3 to farm pugs. We can go to EOTM if we really cared enough to farm bags. They dropped to survive and keep up the gamemode until arenas come out which, as I said before, the guilds will likely move across the tiers at that point to where they can have fun in raiding on a BL now that servers won’t matter for scrims.

I get that people want to rant about bad attitudes in fight guilds, but I’ve met some nasty people across my time in T1-3 who were in PPT guilds, who were simply pugs, and even that one time a developer caused trouble. They exist everywhere, and if someone is that bothersome to you, block them. If it’s a reportable offense, report them (I’ve had to report many a player in WvW for misconduct). Players have a right to be on whatever server they see fit for their guild and playstyle regardless of what one bad apple has done to anyone here.

Those paragraphs are huge. As far as I can tell your confirming T3 servers are tanking (glicko manipulation), and that they don’t want to play any of the aspects of WvW. Sorry but where is this misinformation you speak of?

I agree its hard to play WvW with your 15s and 20s class comp.. dosen’t work out too well when you fight a real WvW’er.

T1 guilds – not the server as a whole, but certain guilds – intentionally tanked and boosted and manipulated glicko. None of those guilds were GvG guilds. In fact, a few of them came into T2 to further manipulate the scores to what they wanted WvW to be and, in the process, forced a mass exodus and the destruction of several servers who are finally able to rebuild.

Mag doesn’t want to be in T2 so they play normally without hard pushing but they certainly don’t skip a week of play time, either. Through normal active play, T3 actually has a pretty natural balance. I don’t see how that’s intentionally manipulating, especially knowing that outside of NA they wouldn’t have the coverage to compete in T2 to begin with. Why push and put in extra overtime to gun for T2 when you’re happy playing regular hours in your current matchup?

Then again, you’re claiming that someone who plays WvW for fights versus PPT isn’t a “real WvWer” and would lose in a fight against someone who does PPT when there are hundreds of videos out there to dispute your claims, so on that note you can assume your opinion is 100% truth and go back to k-training the map away while the rest of us play the way that we prefer, be it bags/backcapping/scouting. We all play a vital role; it’s not my fault you’re too blind to see it.

Aerial Melodies.4938:

Jayne.9251:

Aerial Melodies.4938:

I get that people want to rant about bad attitudes in fight guilds, but I’ve met some nasty people across my time in T1-3 who were in PPT guilds, who were simply pugs, and even that one time a developer caused trouble. They exist everywhere, and if someone is that bothersome to you, block them. If it’s a reportable offense, report them (I’ve had to report many a player in WvW for misconduct). Players have a right to be on whatever server they see fit for their guild and playstyle regardless of what one bad apple has done to anyone here.

Careful with the labels. In my experience it’s that language that causes the most friction, because there’s a perception that “pugs are baddies” (when they’re not) and that “GvG guilds are elitist @ sshats” (when they’re not). And then it all derails into a battle of egos, when that’s SO not necessary.

Fight guilds want fights. PPT guilds want high scores. BOTH sides can coexist on a map and actually benefit each other, if you get beyond the name-calling and long-existing bitterness on both sides.

PPT guild can call out enemy movement, and those GvG guilds can then get all the fights they want, while the PPT guilds can manage control of the towers/keeps. It’s win-win.

Neither side is more entitled than the other to occupy spots on the map. But both sides can create a beautiful dynamic, given an effort to cooperate.

The labels? I’m 100% in agreement with you so I assume you didn’t mean to tell me to not label groups as one thing or another. I was simply calling out examples of non-GvG guilds/players that I have come across who were equally as hostile as some members of the GvG community. The bad apples do not equal the whole of everyone that exists in that particular playstyle, so we actually agree. Sorry if you misread my words otherwise.

I just meant that people see the words GvG and “simply pugs” in the same sentence then the walls go up and stubbornness kicks in. It’s semantics really, but it has almost a bigoted impact sadly.

It’s not that we have to be PC in conversation, just that I know, historically, those terms tend to set off the whole elitism debate and effectively shuts down any meaningful conversation.

Aerial Melodies.4938:

I get that people want to rant about bad attitudes in fight guilds, but I’ve met some nasty people across my time in T1-3 who were in PPT guilds, who were simply pugs, and even that one time a developer caused trouble. They exist everywhere, and if someone is that bothersome to you, block them. If it’s a reportable offense, report them (I’ve had to report many a player in WvW for misconduct). Players have a right to be on whatever server they see fit for their guild and playstyle regardless of what one bad apple has done to anyone here.

Heh, well in personal experience, I’ve seen far more toxic behaviors from the PPT side of things just because it’s more likely people will make demands to others that really have no reason to listen. It’s pretty delusional to think that pugs will adhere to anything one says by yelling at them rudely.

The “game mode violation” incident just seemed to be a misunderstanding where neither side would back down and thus escalated into something worse, but that’s how it always seems to go. I think the GvG’ers were in the right, but they could have also reacted better too.

Aerial Melodies.4938:

T1 guilds – not the server as a whole, but certain guilds – intentionally tanked and boosted and manipulated glicko. None of those guilds were GvG guilds. In fact, a few of them came into T2 to further manipulate the scores to what they wanted WvW to be and, in the process, forced a mass exodus and the destruction of several servers who are finally able to rebuild.

Mag doesn’t want to be in T2 so they play normally without hard pushing but they certainly don’t skip a week of play time, either. Through normal active play, T3 actually has a pretty natural balance. I don’t see how that’s intentionally manipulating, especially knowing that outside of NA they wouldn’t have the coverage to compete in T2 to begin with. Why push and put in extra overtime to gun for T2 when you’re happy playing regular hours in your current matchup?

Then again, you’re claiming that someone who plays WvW for fights versus PPT isn’t a “real WvWer” and would lose in a fight against someone who does PPT when there are hundreds of videos out there to dispute your claims, so on that note you can assume your opinion is 100% truth and go back to k-training the map away while the rest of us play the way that we prefer, be it bags/backcapping/scouting. We all play a vital role; it’s not my fault you’re too blind to see it.

I’m not sure why you’re bringing up the T1 matchfixing alliance there’s little doubt about that.

As to the T3 matchfixing you need look no further then the posts of some their pug-magnet commanders as to what their intent is. Clearly you do not participate in their community. I wouldn’t want to either it can get messy.

I could edit together video’s and me stomping people too doesn’t prove anything.

You should brush up on your labels K-trainers do not play in the WvW style. The backcapping label goes hand in hand with K-training. If you brute force an objective then map hop off and leave it to be taken how is that the “backcappers” fault?

I don’t really care about your “way we play” I care about all the other people it effects in tiers above and below. That’s true toxicity.

Interesting in regards to your disdain for t3. you are probably fortunate that none of the t3 servers have any incentive to move up to t2. King Xushin could PPT magswag up to t2 and further accelerate your decline and it might as well be SOR 2.0. that break into silver by any of the t2 servers would cause a snowball effect as your false sense of dominance in PPT is shattered. Once you realized the past couple years that t2 was t1 lite match manipulation. As the loudest and proudest pvd heroes will be the ones crying and jumping ship. Be gracious that you have the time to rebuild your community while still near the “top” of coverage wars.

Aerial Melodies.4938:

WvW is a balance between those that want fights and those who do not. Whether fight guilds use a server TS or not doesn’t really matter; they still play an active role in assisting the server by wiping the enemy zerg so players like you – who prefer to ppt, which is perfectly okay – can freely cap.

Signed, a GvGer in T2 <3

Both of those are extremes:
1. we only consume the fights
2. we will sit on siege until the enemy is in, then waypoint away to not feed them bags and not give them fight, so they will log out bored

There is a third category, what I would consider as being normal RvR play: those who enjoy taking and defending objectives WHILE FIGTHTING in both of those.

I hate fighting for the sake of fights only, and also hate being semi-afk during sieges; that’s what using siege means, or waiting others to use it (most are just watching, what else can do)… only to take an – empty objective.
Sometimes the defenders fight back, which is fun, if there is a meaning fighting.

Nothing is worse than having a fight a group on the map that kills the enemy zerg on their own. Feels like they consumed the topping on the cake, and you are left with to eat the rest. Some may like eating the rest, but some of us want the whole.

This is what WvW should be; everyone on the map playing as being part of a single team, not unconnected islands, doing their own bidding. The GvG scene needs a completely different game mode, not castle sieges, and WvW is not that game mode.

We don’t have fight focused game modes at all, sPvP is all about reaching 500 points by any means, and killing gives far less than capping. It’s is very sad, because the GW2 fight system is well done, (except the prankish stealth and one shoot kill parts), and would be much fun. A game mode focused on PvP, 1v1, 5v5, 10v10, 15v15, 20v20, 35v35, nothing more than 80 on a map on current hardware, where only killling matters, nothing else – no capping, no siege, no walls, no casuals crafting and doing map completion, and no managing centaurs.

Delta.2093:

Aerial Melodies.4938:

WvW is a balance between those that want fights and those who do not. Whether fight guilds use a server TS or not doesn’t really matter; they still play an active role in assisting the server by wiping the enemy zerg so players like you – who prefer to ppt, which is perfectly okay – can freely cap.

Signed, a GvGer in T2 <3

Both of those are extremes:
1. we only consume the fights
2. we will sit on siege until the enemy is in, then waypoint away to not feed them bags and not give them fight, so they will log out bored

There is a third category, what I would consider as being normal RvR play: those who enjoy taking and defending objectives WHILE FIGTHTING in both of those.

This. There’s way too much binary thinking in this thread. I love fights, love the hell out of them. But fighting in an open field over nothing gets boring to me really quick. I like fighting over objectives, either to take them or defend them.

Sometimes, because of excessive arrow carts or the nature of trebbing from long distance or some other gimmick, siegeing an objective gets boring. I get it. This is an area I think Anet needs to work on (making siegeing and defending against a siege more predictably fun). But I still love a good siege. My favorite WvW moments of all time have been long, crazy back and forth keep sieges between two competent teams. That doesn’t make me a filthy PPT’er.

A lot of good info in this thread for a fresh 80 looking to start his WvWvW times. I have looked at Sea of Sorrows for a server for WvWvW, but I also like doing world bosses, etc… How is SoS for content outside of WvWvW ? I also guested on it briefly, and most of the people I encountered were Aussies, is this an unofficial Aussie server?

displayname.8315:

I don’t really care about your “way we play” I care about all the other people it effects in tiers above and below. That’s true toxicity.

Correction – you only care about yourself and the way that you want to play. You prefer to never fight and sit in towers based on your degrading comments toward people who enjoy fights. That’s your personal call to do so and well within your right in the gamemode as it allows a variety of playstyles. If anyone has been toxic within this thread alone, it’s not anyone from GvG… it’s players like you that continue to encourage a great divide when the reality is for many GvG guilds they will raid, PPT, and in some cases even pugmand a map if they feel so inclined. But again, you’re like the old man set in his ways who refuses to open his eyes and see that just because one bad apple ruffled your feathers it doesn’t mean an entire community is full of bad seeds.

Delta.2093:

Aerial Melodies.4938:

WvW is a balance between those that want fights and those who do not. Whether fight guilds use a server TS or not doesn’t really matter; they still play an active role in assisting the server by wiping the enemy zerg so players like you – who prefer to ppt, which is perfectly okay – can freely cap.

Signed, a GvGer in T2 <3

Both of those are extremes:
1. we only consume the fights
2. we will sit on siege until the enemy is in, then waypoint away to not feed them bags and not give them fight, so they will log out bored

There is a third category, what I would consider as being normal RvR play: those who enjoy taking and defending objectives WHILE FIGTHTING in both of those.

I hate fighting for the sake of fights only, and also hate being semi-afk during sieges; that’s what using siege means, or waiting others to use it (most are just watching, what else can do)… only to take an – empty objective.
Sometimes the defenders fight back, which is fun, if there is a meaning fighting.

Nothing is worse than having a fight a group on the map that kills the enemy zerg on their own. Feels like they consumed the topping on the cake, and you are left with to eat the rest. Some may like eating the rest, but some of us want the whole.

This is what WvW should be; everyone on the map playing as being part of a single team, not unconnected islands, doing their own bidding. The GvG scene needs a completely different game mode, not castle sieges, and WvW is not that game mode.

Someone hasn’t played the new map… you’re going to want groups to separate out and play “together” but not in a blob. If you blob up in the new map it’ll look like EOTM does now where fights are extremely hard to come by and a karma train will form up. Having played in beta twice now in both small groups and one massive zerg, I can tell you that the more interesting time was spent in the smaller, more localized groups.

Also, I never said GvG only fight and never cap, nor do PPT guilds only cap and never fight. Some players/guilds are on the extremes, and that’s okay. WvW does allow for that. It also allows for everything inbetween. It’s a PvP gamemode whether people like that or not, and some people prefer more PvP than capping and vice versa. Neither is wrong. Servers that embrace this method of thinking tend to be lower tier, though, coming from someone who has played from T1 down through T4. Trying to tell people they aren’t playing the way you want them to and thus they should leave is no better than accusing GvGers of doing the same to you… Just saying. Should people who only enjoy scouting also quit because they’re not actively contributing on a constant level? What about thief scouts whose only purpose is to stalk the enemy in stealth and give locations? It’s semi-useful, but it’s not actively adding or detracting from PPT nor do those players often fight, either. I think they have a right to be on the map. I sense others here feel they do not, which isn’t right. Perhaps I am mistaken, but this really sounds like what others in this thread are suggesting.