Guild Wars 2

A game itself isn’t enough to keep you interested in it? You need the developer to constantly pander to you in order for you to maintain interest in a game?

Unfortunately, I don’t think you’re ever going to find a game you can enjoy for longer than a short period of time. Try taking control of your own destiny/enjoyment and treating any communication from your developer as an added bonus. You might just enjoy life more.

My WvW doesn’t need change, really. The players keep things interesting, not the textures.

I don’t think they have any time or resources allocated to balancing/making sense of WvW. Moar Scarlet, moar gem store items.

It really is a shame because WvW is to me the most fascinating and interesting part of the game, or was back pre-WXP. Now I am lucky to find a commander who will bother defending a keep because “we can flip it for WXP after they’re done.” The people who are interested in strategic gameplay in WvW are a dying breed, and instead we get clowns looking for the win button.

Cogbyrn.7283:

My WvW doesn’t need change, really.

Oh?

Coghbyrn, 80 Charr Warrior
Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro

Oh.

msalakka.4653:

I don’t think they have any time or resources allocated to balancing/making sense of WvW. Moar Scarlet, moar gem store items.

It really is a shame because WvW is to me the most fascinating and interesting part of the game, or was back pre-WXP. Now I am lucky to find a commander who will bother defending a keep because “we can flip it for WXP after they’re done.” The people who are interested in strategic gameplay in WvW are a dying breed, and instead we get clowns looking for the win button.

Cogbyrn.7283:

My WvW doesn’t need change, really.

Oh?

Coghbyrn, 80 Charr Warrior
Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro

Oh.

I’m assuming you’re in a server under tier 4. The only times I’ve seen servers give up certain structures was because they ran out of supply to keep up maintenance of it.

agree msalakka, WvW is not just a farm.
Almost nobody cares about upgrades. Nobody want to spend 2G for an upgrade and have no reward from it.

Many WvW players are really dissapointed.of lack of support from devs. I dont talk about new shinies, but repairs of old things.
Too many bugs, overpowered AC etc.

I dont think WvW will survive throught 2014 even if they will be manually adjusting population numbers like today to keep the appearance of full game.

msalakka.4653:

Cogbyrn.7283:

My WvW doesn’t need change, really.

Oh?

Coghbyrn, 80 Charr Warrior
Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro

Oh.

I only play the Necro these days, and I roam solo as a Powermancer.

What do you play, and how do you play? I really hope you roam solo as a Bow Ranger, just so you can make comments about what other people play.

Reverence.6915:

msalakka.4653:

I don’t think they have any time or resources allocated to balancing/making sense of WvW. Moar Scarlet, moar gem store items.

It really is a shame because WvW is to me the most fascinating and interesting part of the game, or was back pre-WXP. Now I am lucky to find a commander who will bother defending a keep because “we can flip it for WXP after they’re done.” The people who are interested in strategic gameplay in WvW are a dying breed, and instead we get clowns looking for the win button.

Cogbyrn.7283:

My WvW doesn’t need change, really.

Oh?

Coghbyrn, 80 Charr Warrior
Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro

Oh.

I’m assuming you’re in a server under tier 4. The only times I’ve seen servers give up certain structures was because they ran out of supply to keep up maintenance of it.

Yeah, I’m in tier 5. I play almost exclusively in our home borderland. To be fair, it has gotten really hard to find people to defend stuff, sometimes commanders tag off because there are only one or two following them, so even at best they may not have enough people to defend keeps. If we get attacked at a keep it’s almost never a small group; it’s a blob or a tag. So they’re not very excited about interrupting a camp flipping field trip to die pointlessly at one of our keeps. I keep telling myself that maybe the “we’ll flip it later” is more like something to tell people as to why they’re not going there when at heart they want to defend but just don’t have the manpower.

We do defend fully upgraded keeps at our home borderland but for that we have to call one of our EB commanders to pop in to save it.

It’s still fun, just wish there was more of a point to upgrading and defending stuff since these plus scouting are things I enjoy the most, and I’d like to see the WvW community keep growing. It has so much potential.

Cogbyrn.7283:

msalakka.4653:

Cogbyrn.7283:

My WvW doesn’t need change, really.

Oh?

Coghbyrn, 80 Charr Warrior
Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro

Oh.

I only play the Necro these days, and I roam solo as a Powermancer.

What do you play, and how do you play? I really hope you roam solo as a Bow Ranger, just so you can make comments about what other people play.

Naw, I roam solo on a PU Mesmer. Sometimes I slap on my Perplexity set just for that extra slice of cheese.

So I shouldn’t really be talkin’. I just think that WvW needs some serious balancing no matter how much I enjoy my insane condition duration.

Cogbyrn.7283:

A game itself isn’t enough to keep you interested in it? You need the developer to constantly pander to you in order for you to maintain interest in a game?

Unfortunately, I don’t think you’re ever going to find a game you can enjoy for longer than a short period of time. Try taking control of your own destiny/enjoyment and treating any communication from your developer as an added bonus. You might just enjoy life more.

My WvW doesn’t need change, really. The players keep things interesting, not the textures.

Uhh … it’s not “pandering” to have someone actually maintain a dialogue about issues and problems, almost all of which go way beyond “textures.” If that’s all you think any of this is about, and if you think WvW doesn’t need any improvement, then you either haven’t played very long or you don’t understand what it once was and what it could be.

@msalakka: Fair enough. I also think condi duration needs to be toned down, as it seems too strong even on my Powermancer.

Cactus.2710:

Cogbyrn.7283:

A game itself isn’t enough to keep you interested in it? You need the developer to constantly pander to you in order for you to maintain interest in a game?

Unfortunately, I don’t think you’re ever going to find a game you can enjoy for longer than a short period of time. Try taking control of your own destiny/enjoyment and treating any communication from your developer as an added bonus. You might just enjoy life more.

My WvW doesn’t need change, really. The players keep things interesting, not the textures.

Uhh … it’s not “pandering” to have someone actually maintain a dialogue about issues and problems, almost all of which go way beyond “textures.” If that’s all you think any of this is about, and if you think WvW doesn’t need any improvement, then you either haven’t played very long or you don’t understand what it once was and what it could be.

I’ve probably spent about 700 total hours in WvW. Not as much as a number of people, but it’s mostly what I do. I don’t know what you think GW2 WvW once was, but the only difference between the early days and the current days is that people were still learning siege placement strategies in the early days. Orbs were a thing, but they were often just a “rich get richer” mechanic, and I was happy to see them go. WXP wasn’t a thing, but you still got money/karma from flips, so I don’t remember flipping not being a thing.

I’m curious to know what you think WvW could be that couldn’t be achieved by the players with WvW in its current state. What is it you’re looking for?

Its quite stunning comparing the sPvP forum with this, they get fairly frequent communication, such as on the balance updates but we get nothing. Josh has introduced himself but nothing really beyond that.

Morrolan I am missing Josh too.
If he was introduced to WvW team, he is doing a crap job now.

It’s pretty common knowledge by now that Anet doesn’t really care for WvW. The only consolation is that dungeons get even less love from Anet.

In my experience, when you are working on larger changes you tend not to telegraph them with a conversation because you really WANT to explain what you MIGHT be doing but you don’t want to set expectations until you are further along.

I very much think that WvW is something ANET is scrambling to improve. It was a very pleasant surprise for them and a key factor in player retention and desire for gem store purchases. Expected? Not really but you go where your customer goes.

We are still waiting for an answer about why they are nerfing crit damage in wvw when it was only OP in PVE.

Communication is important, even if it’s idle banter or just telling us for certain what they are NOT working on and what they WON’T be working on.

I think the most telling communication concerning where WvW priorities lie; was the CDI on commander changes.

Devon asked if people would want the color changes now or a lot of changes later.

The fact that they do not have either the permission or the resources to make easier to implement changes while working on greater changes tells me one of two things:
1. They do not care
2. Or they are working on something huge, and it will be for not; because by the time they can roll it out no one will care anymore.

Communication would fix #2 problems and probably get us hyped; if it’s #1 then they are following script perfectly.

I still wish they would see the real problem is condi damage in small groups and how strong it is rather than nerfing the other alternative, crit damage.

There’s a new go-to guy but yeah as far as I’ve seen no dev. But what do you expect, the devs dont want to hear about WvW, it’s the most engaging game mode yet they have failed to see it. WvW was apparently just supposed to be a side thing from the beginning, but more and more people are playing it.

The new Dev assigned to WvW has just responded to one post and closed another – your argument is invalid!

The way he closed was pretty good too, you have to at least give him that.

However, the OP has a point, the Dev interaction with WvW is somewhere between sub par and non existent as of late. I think we should give Josh a chance though, it can take time to find your bearings in a new job position. It will take him time to get used to us (the shining example of a utopian community that we WvW’rs are), and the best way to interact with us without setting off World Forum War III (let’s not kid ourselves, we’re touchy and prone to bouts of nerd rage).

So, Josh, talk to us. Yeah, we’re touchy, prone to nerd rage, and horribly thick headed when it comes to our classes vs other classes, but we love your game and want to see it thrive. Many of us also spend way more than we’d ever admit to non gamers in your gem store. So love us, please.

Chris.3290:

Communication is important, even if it’s idle banter or just telling us for certain what they are NOT working on and what they WON’T be working on.

I think the most telling communication concerning where WvW priorities lie; was the CDI on commander changes.

Devon asked if people would want the color changes now or a lot of changes later.

The fact that they do not have either the permission or the resources to make easier to implement changes while working on greater changes tells me one of two things:
1. They do not care
2. Or they are working on something huge, and it will be for not; because by the time they can roll it out no one will care anymore.

Communication would fix #2 problems and probably get us hyped; if it’s #1 then they are following script perfectly.

I’m not sure you appreciate how sensitive the community is to any/all information that is released. Every word every dev said is analyzed through a micro-scope and stored in some troll bank to be used as ammo at some later date. It’s staggering how fast a community will use their words against them, or straight-up harass the developer posts that DO happen.

If you want more communication, start by trying to teach the community how to communicate professionally and understand that sometimes plans change. Maybe then you’ll see more red posts here.

Only the brain-dead still think WvW is any sort of priority for Anet at this point. We’re right down there, and people need to adjust their expectations accordingly.

I am too worried about this issue. I love WvW and this games combat system, and I remember when devs, especially Devon Carver used to talk to us kuch more frequently and it kept a lot of us happy.

Sure there’s trolls, rude comments and so on, but this is the internet and a forum of an online game its just bound to happen. There are people out there that can ask questions or give complains in a mature manner, now people are more frustrated than ever because we feel like ANet has nothing special for us in the up coming months

Cogbyrn.7283:

Chris.3290:

Communication is important, even if it’s idle banter or just telling us for certain what they are NOT working on and what they WON’T be working on.

I think the most telling communication concerning where WvW priorities lie; was the CDI on commander changes.

Devon asked if people would want the color changes now or a lot of changes later.

The fact that they do not have either the permission or the resources to make easier to implement changes while working on greater changes tells me one of two things:
1. They do not care
2. Or they are working on something huge, and it will be for not; because by the time they can roll it out no one will care anymore.

Communication would fix #2 problems and probably get us hyped; if it’s #1 then they are following script perfectly.

I’m not sure you appreciate how sensitive the community is to any/all information that is released. Every word every dev said is analyzed through a micro-scope and stored in some troll bank to be used as ammo at some later date. It’s staggering how fast a community will use their words against them, or straight-up harass the developer posts that DO happen.

If you want more communication, start by trying to teach the community how to communicate professionally and understand that sometimes plans change. Maybe then you’ll see more red posts here.

you suggest I teach civility to the internet? Sorry, no time for that. I’m too busy inviting FTL drives for the neighborhood space program. I’m also very close to cold fusion.

I think the WvW devs have taken to the idea that if you cannot say something nice… don’t say anything at all.

In my experience some of the best MMOs have a great system for communicating with their player base. Sure some players will never be happy but going cold is much worse. People want to be invested for better or worse and two way communication is a big part of that. Eve Online gets major kudos in this regard.

Take a step back and look at what they’ve added in the last year:

1) They buffed arrow carts
2) They added ranks
3) They added mastery lines
4) They added orb buffs
5) They added PPT for stomping
6) They added Living Story
7) They added achievements
8) They added WvW infusions
9) They made siege tradable
10) They added random matchups
11) They deleted the WvW matchup forum

Now let me ask you, which of these 11 ’features’ promotes a fair and competitive battlefield?

None of them.

With the exception of PPT for stomps, every change they have made to WvW in the past year has either been a PvE cosmetic change or a power creep change. PPT for stomps would have been a great addition to WvW if it wasn’t tied to stat increasing orb buffs.

They’ve done absolutely nothing to promote a fair and balanced competition which is what the vast majority of us want. The less they touch WvW, the better.

I’d just assume go back to beta WvW because it’s better than WvW we have now.

Peetee.9406:

Take a step back and look at what they’ve added in the last year:

1) They buffed arrow carts
2) They added ranks
3) They added mastery lines
4) They added orb buffs
5) They added PPT for stomping
6) They added Living Story
7) They added achievements
8) They added WvW infusions
9) They made siege tradable
10) They added random matchups
11) They deleted the WvW matchup forum

Now let me ask you, which of these 11 ‘features’ promotes a fair and competitive battlefield?

None of them.

With the exception of PPT for stomps, every change they have made to WvW in the past year has either been a PvE cosmetic change or a power creep change. PPT for stomps would have been a great addition to WvW if it wasn’t tied to stat increasing orb buffs.

They’ve done absolutely nothing to promote a fair and balanced competition which is what the vast majority of us want. The less they touch WvW, the better.

I’d just assume go back to beta WvW because it’s better than WvW we have now.

You want a fair and balanced competition, but you don’t want to go to sPvP, which is specifically designed around the philosophy of being fair and balanced? I get that conquest mode isn’t for everyone, but if that is specifically your motivation for playing, I don’t know what you’re doing in WvW.

How exactly would you promote fairness/balance in the mode that is so highly dependent on populations and contribution from the entire server?

Cogbyrn.7283:

Chris.3290:

Communication is important, even if it’s idle banter or just telling us for certain what they are NOT working on and what they WON’T be working on.

I think the most telling communication concerning where WvW priorities lie; was the CDI on commander changes.

Devon asked if people would want the color changes now or a lot of changes later.

The fact that they do not have either the permission or the resources to make easier to implement changes while working on greater changes tells me one of two things:
1. They do not care
2. Or they are working on something huge, and it will be for not; because by the time they can roll it out no one will care anymore.

Communication would fix #2 problems and probably get us hyped; if it’s #1 then they are following script perfectly.

I’m not sure you appreciate how sensitive the community is to any/all information that is released. Every word every dev said is analyzed through a micro-scope and stored in some troll bank to be used as ammo at some later date. It’s staggering how fast a community will use their words against them, or straight-up harass the developer posts that DO happen.

If you want more communication, start by trying to teach the community how to communicate professionally and understand that sometimes plans change. Maybe then you’ll see more red posts here.

You have it totally backwards. You don’t make the troll posts go away by not participating in the discussion. That’s like expecting citizens to complain less so their congressman will be more likely to meet with them. The devs could defuse almost all the acrimony here simply by acting like they care and staying in touch. It’s the primary mantra of any customer service … don’t let your customers feel like they are being ignored. History has shown that customers will forgive almost ANYTHING if the company acts like they understand and empathize.

ANet has brought ALL of this on themselves. There was a lot of rancor here early last winter, but then Habbib showed up and when he at least acted like he cared the waters calmed significantly. Then he disappeared altogether (anyone know what happened to him?) and players got impatient again. When Devon eventually appeared and actually said a few encouraging things here, the forums turned mostly optimistic … only to turn to crap again when it became obvious that he wasn’t listening anyway. He couldn’t even bring himself to take the “Collaborative” Development Initiative on population balance seriously and he’s said nothing about where the commander initiative is headed. Now Josh pops into the room, and in spite of several players warning him that he was only going to make it worse if he didn’t follow through we haven’t heard from him since. You couldn’t script a more effective way to alienate the community if you tried.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Peetee.9406:

Take a step back and look at what they’ve added in the last year:

1) They buffed arrow carts
2) They added ranks
3) They added mastery lines
4) They added orb buffs
5) They added PPT for stomping
6) They added Living Story
7) They added achievements
8) They added WvW infusions
9) They made siege tradable
10) They added random matchups
11) They deleted the WvW matchup forum

Now let me ask you, which of these 11 ‘features’ promotes a fair and competitive battlefield?

None of them.

With the exception of PPT for stomps, every change they have made to WvW in the past year has either been a PvE cosmetic change or a power creep change. PPT for stomps would have been a great addition to WvW if it wasn’t tied to stat increasing orb buffs.

They’ve done absolutely nothing to promote a fair and balanced competition which is what the vast majority of us want. The less they touch WvW, the better.

I’d just assume go back to beta WvW because it’s better than WvW we have now.

You want a fair and balanced competition, but you don’t want to go to sPvP, which is specifically designed around the philosophy of being fair and balanced? I get that conquest mode isn’t for everyone, but if that is specifically your motivation for playing, I don’t know what you’re doing in WvW.

How exactly would you promote fairness/balance in the mode that is so highly dependent on populations and contribution from the entire server?

Nobody said anything about “fair”, and if they did they just used the term carelessly. What players want is population balance … ideally the majority of the time but at least on average over the course of the match. Better coordinated teams should always have an advantage, better skilled teams should always have an advantage, better strategic leadership should always have an advantage … but no team should always win simply because they can put more players on the field through no fault of their own.

Your last question is exactly the core of the problem. WvW doesn’t HAVE to be dependent upon server populations. It could be instanced. It could draw from multiple servers in the form of battlegroups. There are a variety of ways that have been suggested over and over again in this forum to address the problem, but every one of them has been ignored. There ARE alternatives … ANet just refuses to consider them or even discuss them.

People wanted to play WvW because it was large scale and it involved lots of team strategy with many different ways to contribute to the final result. That isn’t sPvP at all and for you to pretend it is an alternative just shows how completely little you understand the issue.

Cogbyrn.7283:

You want a fair and balanced competition, but you don’t want to go to sPvP, which is specifically designed around the philosophy of being fair and balanced? I get that conquest mode isn’t for everyone, but if that is specifically your motivation for playing, I don’t know what you’re doing in WvW.

How exactly would you promote fairness/balance in the mode that is so highly dependent on populations and contribution from the entire server?

Sorry, but you’re stretching it with your logic, in several posts – maybe you’re trolling. The “want balance? sPvP” argument has been trumpeted to death (are you a Dev?). If you need enlightenment on various mechanisms for how balance could be promoted, feel free to peruse every page of this forum from the last year and a half.

With respect to the OP, I almost wrote the same thing yesterday. There’s a clear disparity in communication here. With respect to the “the wvw community is mean, so why should the dev’s respond?” lines of thought above…we’re customers; when I or anyone else have clients who throw verbal or written barbs my/our way, you generally suck it up and move forward, because they’re your income. How often would it be acceptable in business to stop talking to clients because a few hurt your feelings?

It’s not pandering to hope for updates to issues and developments which have been acknowledged by the Dev’s themselves. It goes straight to the question of whether I as a customer should bother spending more of my time and money with a game that may or may not reach a potential beyond its current problematic state.

Honestly I think the biggest failing here was realizing that wvw could have been a gateway to promoting their spvp plan. Instead they took a combative stance with the community and shot themselves in the foot. I was gonna try out spvp more until it began to feel as if I was being forced out of wvw through deliberate neglect.

The spvp forums get way more attention and having played spvp they are just as unruly as wvw community. The worse part about wvw is they don’t change or fix thing people have been asking about for over a year. Best example being the party ai. 15months and we still can’t kick people from our party in wvw? removing content to solve a problem with it rather than fixing the problem ( fly hack orbs). Removing the quagons, which were the only useful npcs in wvw borderland. Stuff like that is y the wvw community is so hostile

Straegen.2938:

I think the WvW devs have taken to the idea that if you cannot say something nice… don’t say anything at all.
.

All we want is an update on EOTM and Account Bound WXP and an explanation for delays if they have occurred, nothing earth shattering.

Look at the bright side: Its completely quiet here, little to no dev response compared to the other forums and still WvW players are such a big threat to the games longevity that they have to create a prison to contain us, a glorified champ train PvP instance that scale up or down (ie they can have all the players there if they want).

@Cactus: I get what you’re saying about communication, but I’ve grown to be intensely cynical about the communities for these games. I spent approximately 22 years of my life playing all sorts of games before I saw developers communicating with players on an open forum. I’m not saying it wasn’t happening, but I just enjoyed playing those games. It wasn’t about needing a roadmap of the product development, it was about just having some fun.

Now, it seems like everyone’s a business stakeholder. Everyone’s a member of the board. I get that this is a small minority of the playerbase, but it’s a mentality I don’t understand, and won’t understand. On top of that, there’s no personal accountability for the community. Everyone lumps all of the blame on ANet. I’m not even saying ANet doesn’t share some of the blame, but my god, take some responsibility.

And the second you said “Nobody said anything about ‘fair’”, I had a hard time reading the rest of what you wrote, because the guy I responded to directly said “fair and balanced”. So yes, someone said something about fair, and I was talking to him. And every idea I’ve seen regarding making things more balanced from a population perspective has other implications. I’ve never once seen anyone go through the cons to their ideas and address the potential issues, they just glorify the solutions as end-alls.

At the end of the day though, I don’t get the need for communication.

@Epsilon: Perhaps it’s been trumpeted to death because it’s the exact mode they developed to create a more fair and balanced, small-scale competitive environment. I’m not a dev, but why is that being dismissed out of hand? Because people just want to WvW? I’m fine with suggestions to make WvW better, but you tug one direction, and you’re just going to pull a different frame of reference full of people complaining about the new change they made.

You could group servers into Battlegroups and basically have all maps full all the time, creating a nice, balanced population game for WvW. But I would hate that, because it means I come home and probably sit in a queue for X minutes. I’m sure there are ways to relieve that pressure, but what sort of systems need to put in place to even make it a reality? How easy do you create Battlegroups and queue them into the same fight? What criteria do you measure that on?

The attitude of “here’s a solution, why haven’t you implemented it yet?” is intensely annoying to see, especially when the person doesn’t acknowledge any of the problems, or even has the gall to say “the coding would probably be easy”. It’s a personal pet peeve of mine when people assume technical knowledge, use that assumption to jump to a conclusion, then use that conclusion to insult a developer. The arrogance and ignorance involved in that process is almost impossibly astounding.

And I’ve so far worked for a consulting agency for 6 years. Any time a client has pushed over the edge with regard to behavior or professionalism, they’ve been forwarded on to leadership who then takes care of it. Multiple times, it has resulted in ending the relationship. That’s part of the reason why I’ve stuck with this company, because they care about the people and they value integrity.

I also do think it’s pandering to have to share product roadmaps with the masses. There’s no subscription fee whatsoever, so you could theoretically get thousands of hours of gameplay for $60. Then everyone expects all sorts of free content updates and systems additions/revamps. If you really wanted to help the game, you’d help make business cases for these changes, potentially incorporating microtransaction incentives to demonstrate ROI.

It’s fine to not think of this game as a business if you want to just log in and have some fun, but if you want to provide valuable feedback and recommend changes, you might as well come ready to support your ideas from a business perspective and consider the fact that there’s no subscription model to inherently support new content with a reliable revenue stream from all the players.

Bueller. Bueller.
Bueller. Bueller.
Beuller?

Cogbyrn.7283:

@Epsilon: Perhaps it’s been trumpeted to death because it’s the exact mode they developed to create a more fair and balanced, small-scale competitive environment. I’m not a dev, but why is that being dismissed out of hand? Because people just want to WvW? I’m fine with suggestions to make WvW better, but you tug one direction, and you’re just going to pull a different frame of reference full of people complaining about the new change they made.

You could group servers into Battlegroups and basically have all maps full all the time, creating a nice, balanced population game for WvW. But I would hate that, because it means I come home and probably sit in a queue for X minutes. I’m sure there are ways to relieve that pressure, but what sort of systems need to put in place to even make it a reality? How easy do you create Battlegroups and queue them into the same fight? What criteria do you measure that on?

The attitude of “here’s a solution, why haven’t you implemented it yet?” is intensely annoying to see, especially when the person doesn’t acknowledge any of the problems, or even has the gall to say “the coding would probably be easy”. It’s a personal pet peeve of mine when people assume technical knowledge, use that assumption to jump to a conclusion, then use that conclusion to insult a developer. The arrogance and ignorance involved in that process is almost impossibly astounding.

And I’ve so far worked for a consulting agency for 6 years. Any time a client has pushed over the edge with regard to behavior or professionalism, they’ve been forwarded on to leadership who then takes care of it. Multiple times, it has resulted in ending the relationship. That’s part of the reason why I’ve stuck with this company, because they care about the people and they value integrity.

I also do think it’s pandering to have to share product roadmaps with the masses. There’s no subscription fee whatsoever, so you could theoretically get thousands of hours of gameplay for $60. Then everyone expects all sorts of free content updates and systems additions/revamps. If you really wanted to help the game, you’d help make business cases for these changes, potentially incorporating microtransaction incentives to demonstrate ROI.

It’s fine to not think of this game as a business if you want to just log in and have some fun, but if you want to provide valuable feedback and recommend changes, you might as well come ready to support your ideas from a business perspective and consider the fact that there’s no subscription model to inherently support new content with a reliable revenue stream from all the players.

I’m not talking about sPvP being promoted, I’m talking about people giving the line of argument “there is a balanced mode, why balance other modes?”, that’s a nonsensical assertion. There are many improvements that could be made to wvw that don’t affect other modes (commander tags, party issues, tower glitches, 3rd party hacking, etc), so the tugging in one direction argument is true in some cases, not in all.

I agree that people oversimplify what’s involved in making some of these changes, but what I don’t agree with is the lack of transparency on some of these issues that allow them to fester in the general Anet vs. User dialogue. It would be better to say something is not going to be implemented, or not implemented in the short-term than to say nothing at all. If they believe announcing a lack of action would result in a loss of player base, well, then they’re just kinda stringing people along to squeeze out a few more dollars. But it’s their right to do that, and our right not to enjoy it.

I also agree that people who write on the forums demanding change should also suggest ways for them to help their bottom line (microtransactions). Yes, you could theoretically get thousands of hours of gameplay for $60, but that’s not the business model is it? If every person bought the game and never used the TP, where would the game be? So, the “you don’t pay a monthly fee so they owe you nothing” argument is a little weak. Implicitly, they are assuming we’re coming back to the trough. When they sat down and decided to put this game out there, they had an idea of how much the average player was going to be investing in their TP, or they would have never received a dollar to support their plan.

I don’t care about free content updates, I just want them to fix what they already built.

Sounds like you have a good employer, I also work in consulting, you feel your employer’s attitude is reflective of how business is conducted in general? Or not so much and that’s why you stay where you are?

I think we can all agree that this subforum, and probaby several others, would benefit greatly from an increased number of red posts (of the non-moderator variety). Even if those posts are just words and no promise of action, it at least shows that the devs are interesting in what’s going on with their game. Currently, it feels like the development path for WvW is this big silent conveyor belt of random crap they cook up and ship out with seemingly very little testing or forethought. Obviously, there’s more work going into than that, but this is the vibe we’re subjected to and reality for those that don’t look past that impression.

A different game I play (which I won’t name because I can already feel the infraction hammer looming over this post) is the polar opposite of ANet when it comes to dev interaction. They open threads regularly looking for feedback and ideas, release balance patches on a weekly basis (sometimes even if to just “fiddle with the numbers” and try new things), post concept art for future premium content (read: skins) with polls for the players to vote on, host two different 24/7 twitch livestreams featuring both devs and community members to showcase everything from tournament play to patch note discussions… hell, they even have their own web-based sitcom.

All of this is done without even having an official forum.

Do people still complain in that game? Absolutely. But at least everyone knows that the dev crew is just as involved and loves playing the game as much as the players do. That leads to better two-way communication and a much better user experience all around.

Epsilon Atreides.3816:

I’m not talking about sPvP being promoted, I’m talking about people giving the line of argument “there is a balanced mode, why balance other modes?”, that’s a nonsensical assertion. There are many improvements that could be made to wvw that don’t affect other modes (commander tags, party issues, tower glitches, 3rd party hacking, etc), so the tugging in one direction argument is true in some cases, not in all.

I agree that people oversimplify what’s involved in making some of these changes, but what I don’t agree with is the lack of transparency on some of these issues that allow them to fester in the general Anet vs. User dialogue. It would be better to say something is not going to be implemented, or not implemented in the short-term than to say nothing at all. If they believe announcing a lack of action would result in a loss of player base, well, then they’re just kinda stringing people along to squeeze out a few more dollars. But it’s their right to do that, and our right not to enjoy it.

I also agree that people who write on the forums demanding change should also suggest ways for them to help their bottom line (microtransactions). Yes, you could theoretically get thousands of hours of gameplay for $60, but that’s not the business model is it? If every person bought the game and never used the TP, where would the game be? So, the “you don’t pay a monthly fee so they owe you nothing” argument is a little weak. Implicitly, they are assuming we’re coming back to the trough. When they sat down and decided to put this game out there, they had an idea of how much the average player was going to be investing in their TP, or they would have never received a dollar to support their plan.

I don’t care about free content updates, I just want them to fix what they already built.

Sounds like you have a good employer, I also work in consulting, you feel your employer’s attitude is reflective of how business is conducted in general? Or not so much and that’s why you stay where you are?

Responding from my phone (at the airport), so I Apologize for any strange capitalization or typos/words.

I believe the large the employer, the more disconnected the leadership is from the consultants, so I can easily imagine the scenario you outlined. I consider myself extraordinarily lucky, as I would rather quit and do something else than have to deal with disrespectful clients. That doesn’t mean we don’t get some political heat Sometimes, but we don’t have to deal with the extreme.

Anyway, you make rational points, and sometimes I ask questions if people without pointing out what I think. I would totally love if they told me all of the juicy things they will and won’t do. I’d pay money to walk into their daily stand up room or pm room and see all of the stories and phases organized. I’ve just seen people react to them in the past, and I can live without any of it.

I don’t think they should ignore wvw balance, but the grand scheme is such a large scale that I don’t expect my stealth grievances to be addressed in my solo roaming. I’m ok with servers having certain advantages in population because I know my personal contribution is a drop in the bucket.

I think it would be a really nice gesture if they fixed some of the issues with the system they released. They could also fix glitches and address hacking better I’m sure. I understand that those little things as up and generally can spoil the experience, but I think people dwell on them far more than they influence the game.

And I don’t think anet owes us nothing. They need to incentivize gem purchases, and they need a player base that gives them that return. Little things can go a long way, but I’d be curious to see the average value data around different types of players. Maybe wvwers are low value because there’s no TP thing that really benefits them. In that way, there are no pay to win mechanics, but there is also no dollar market for something like custom Arenas. I’d like for them to pull out ideas to increase wvw value, but I also think wvw is a magical sandbox of owpvp, so I’m just in no rush.

That’s just my perspective. The core of it isa really ingesting problem and discussion, but people so often get mired in the complaints that I wonder If they have stepped back and realize what they have already. Not everyone has to like it of course, and voting with wallets will speak louder than posts on forums. I just think that requiring constant attention or throwing tantrums just isn’t a healthy way to act, even If I would also like to see more communication here specifically as well.

Not saying you are acting like that,but that’s the impression I get from these forums more often than not, and I subscribe to people being accountable for their own actions regardless.

OP, this is the sub-forum where threads come to die..unloved and uncared for.

Try posting anything about wvw on the general forum to get a wider audience and it’s moved to this graveyard before you can blink.

Lack of dev attention means less and less people even bother to read it, so the cycle of decline continues.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Chris.3290:

If you want more communication, start by trying to teach the community how to communicate professionally and understand that sometimes plans change. Maybe then you’ll see more red posts here.

If you want more money, start by trying to teach your developers how to communicate professionally and understand that sometimes customer’s loyalties change. Maybe then you’ll see more happy posts here.

for months now we havnt heard from any WvW devs or Even WvW previews, nothing on EOTM after the beta close and the only “dev” posts you ever see are those closing threads.

wheres Devon? wheres The new guy? Josh?

My theory is that theres no communication because theres nothing to communicate, nothing for wvw, I hope Im wrong though

They are working on the stuff; most likely.

They are probably sleeping now…..

I´m affraid that you are right. I am watching this part of forum often, because wvw is the only fun for me in GW2. And it looks like there is none active dev for WvW. I am affraid that they are doing one of biggest mistakes. We can see this in many onther MMORPG. They prefere one part of game to else. But game is one complex mechanism, people tend to play PvE for a while, than WvW and maybe PvP too. But with this attitude, many players will left within few weeks.

They are in Disneyland spending all your gems!

They’re working on spvp stuff. The wvw team is a subset of the spvp team.

They all play Elder Scrolls Online.

Just kidding. The less dev posts you find in the forums the harder they work on next patches. Unfortunately they dont give a crap about WvW so dont expect too much in the near future.

EOTM looks nice but its a bandaid. I predict it will go live end of march.

teg.1340:

They all play Elder Scrolls Online.

Just kidding. The less dev posts you find in the forums the harder they work on next patches. Unfortunately they dont give a crap about WvW so dont expect too much in the near future.

EOTM looks nice but its a bandaid. I predict it will go live end of march.

A Band aid for high population servers. Like T1 or T2. For low population servers where right now 4 maps is just too much and all the players go to EBG for find someone to fight will be pretty harmful.

Perhaps a few of the devs are helping out with China/Asia launch of GW2?

urieldhynne.2743:

teg.1340:

They all play Elder Scrolls Online.

Just kidding. The less dev posts you find in the forums the harder they work on next patches. Unfortunately they dont give a crap about WvW so dont expect too much in the near future.

EOTM looks nice but its a bandaid. I predict it will go live end of march.

A Band aid for high population servers. Like T1 or T2. For low population servers where right now 4 maps is just too much and all the players go to EBG for find someone to fight will be pretty harmful.

Most likely they allow us to get there whenever we want through the map list, otherwise it will be quite pointless. The map was created not just for solving the queue problem, but to provide an area for smaller group play without the worry of ppt which a lot of guilds are moving to doing. Most servers would probably only experience queues on reset night if at all and the odd time you’re map floating zergs into another map.