This is balance????
im giving the Devs’ a C
C stands for Calibration
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calibration
and i can give then B too
B stands for Beta
this is Beta period right…. Calibration in Beta….
want me to Give them A too?
A stand for Anet
Anet deploys Beta for the Calibration of Population…. duh?
thats all i want to say
PS: let me give an S rating on some cats
Gate of Madness
(edited by Norbe.7630)
I say populations will migrate to avoid queues and find good communities with a healthy population of new blood for them to grow their guilds in, so given time we have a chance to get to a level of parity we have not seen before.
It might have the additional healthy side effect of creating goodwill between servers knowing how pairings may change in the future. Toxic communities will always exist, but anet could punish them by sticking them together and letting them hate each other instead of communities where people just want to kill red and compete with a bit of tact.
If ANET does the pairings right every quarter and learns from any misteps they might make, I think WvW will be healthy through 2016 if the beta tests continue to be so spot on with what the community needs.
A new scoring system, continued work on rewards and population, improving balance (make toughness reduce condi damage please), and showing that they are listening to players will keeps things alive when it really seemed we were on the edge of the abyss for this game just a month or two ago.
(edited by ScionKai.4907)
Its fine. T1 is actually lots of fun, as is T2. and I hear T3 is ok.
I still don’t understand why an OCX server (IoJ) was paired with a SEA server (JQ).
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast
im giving the Devs’ a C
C stands for Calibration
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calibration
and i can give then B too
B stands for Beta
this is Beta period right…. Calibration in Beta….
want me to Give them A too?
A stand for Anet
Anet deploys Beta for the Calibration of Population…. duh?
thats all i want to say
PS: let me give an S rating on some cats
Talking about the fact that this is still in a testing phase in response to criticism is counterproductive to the actual testing lol. They need honest opinions on the subject in order to find the proper system, so excusing the problems with “it’s just le testing duh” actually makes it so their tests are LESS effective. We need to be giving them as much constructive feedback as we can to refine the system.
The OP is pointing out that, contrary to what many thought this system would do, it has on average created a larger gap between the strongest servers and the weakest servers in matchups. This may settle down as matchups go on and servers rise/fall, but giving accurate feedback as the tests progress is the best thing we can do to help better the game.
Darkhaven Commander
Co-leader of [Sold]
Larger gaps? Wasn’t it just last week that DR hit an 800k score? There’s nothing remotely close to that atm.
…….For creating good matches, with balanced coverage and populations, I’m giving the Dev’s a D.
What say you?
Stop blaming Anet for coverage issues, that’s what I say. It’s in beta, they will figure something out on the scoring side of things, and then it is up to you to rally the troops. Until then, fight on.
Corsair Vengeance 8Gb @ 1866Mhz | ASUS GTX 970 | Kingston 240 GB SSD
Stop blaming Anet for coverage issues, that’s what I say.
Oh whoa whoa whoa… right there! If Anet is going to lock the Worlds and be the sole creator of these pairings, then it falls upon Anet to balance coverage and create fair matches. This is an “either or” proposition. If you do not empower the players, then the responsibility and effort falls upon the devs. That’s why I gave them a low rating at this time.
I’m looking and I don’t see lopsided matches based purely on current NA score. Its only Monday, all those currently in second place and maybe even a couple in third are more than capable of closing the gaps in the score, but they won’t, they’ll instead throw their hands up and say the system is broken.
The glicko gap is another beast entirely, but the current scores in T4 are closer than they were at this time a week or 2 or 3 or a year ago in T5-T8. In terms of pairings, a few adjustments could probably be made by Anet, but, theres only so much they could do and if the people on those servers aren’t going to participate then the matches woud really be as lopsided as before.
I give the devs a B for doing something to try and help us, but in the end, if we don’t do something as well, the F belongs to us alone.
[HaHa] Hazardous Hallucination
I’m looking and I don’t see lopsided matches
SBI+CD has been leading in income evolution for around 95% of your match thus far. 95% certainly does seem a bit lopsided to me.
Stop blaming Anet for coverage issues, that’s what I say.
Oh whoa whoa whoa… right there! If Anet is going to lock the Worlds and be the sole creator of these pairings, then it falls upon Anet to balance coverage and create fair matches. This is an “either or” proposition. If you do not empower the players, then the responsibility and effort falls upon the devs. That’s why I gave them a low rating at this time.
Why?
When Players were “empowered”, they did nothing but kitten it up in the first place.
If we had managed to spread ourselves out and not create the stagnant matches that everyone complained about, then they wouldn’t have had to step in and play parent.
This is on us.
talk talk talk
I can’t be “Salt of the Earth” without actually containing some saltiness.
I dont think the pairings themselves are the only reason for the scores…
-People coming back to the game
-More emphasis on winning with glicko/ratings changes
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<
Stop blaming Anet for coverage issues, that’s what I say.
Oh whoa whoa whoa… right there! If Anet is going to lock the Worlds and be the sole creator of these pairings, then it falls upon Anet to balance coverage and create fair matches. This is an “either or” proposition. If you do not empower the players, then the responsibility and effort falls upon the devs. That’s why I gave them a low rating at this time.
Why?
When Players were “empowered”, they did nothing but kitten it up in the first place.
If we had managed to spread ourselves out and not create the stagnant matches that everyone complained about, then they wouldn’t have had to step in and play parent.
This is on us.
Its just human behaviour, its up to anet to create a game design that mitigates selfish behaviour.
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
And they have, by having rotating pairings to counter the grande bandwagon effect.
Stack up again? Anet changes the pairings.
I think, given all the other options, it’s quite brilliant.
Now if they could allow people their server tags, I think it would be a coup.
If we had managed to spread ourselves out and not create the stagnant matches that everyone complained about, then they wouldn’t have had to step in and play parent.
This is on us.
Now we’re getting off topic but, I’ll answer you with another “No”. Since we’ve disagreed on here about the topic for a while now. We should have stacked and created balanced coverage, as some worlds did. There should be static tiers based around differing play styles and player derived rules of engagement. The issue arose when the dev’s did not consolidate the tiers when overall population diminished to a state of being too low to play. If not consolidated, as I posted on here almost 3 years ago, they should have created an alliance system. A system where Worlds, Guilds, and individuals could join together into. I asked for maps with themes and where winning a match was a part of an overall shared quest. That will be 3 years ago come June
Again, off topic about the question of balance on the pairings this week.
Larger gaps? Wasn’t it just last week that DR hit an 800k score? There’s nothing remotely close to that atm.
On average, not literally every matchup is larger than every gap that has ever occurred.
Darkhaven Commander
Co-leader of [Sold]
I haven’t been paying too much attention to T1/T2/T4, but T3 is much closer this week than in the months prior.
Lol JQ QQ. BG has only done the same thing every single time something big happens to wvw. Pre season, BG is dead last for several weeks, season start BEASTGATE. Now its just happening cause there are actual people to kill in wvw.
For example, my guild has been 100% inactive in wvw for 2-3 months, now were running nightly raids again. We came to BG cause unlike TC, YB or JQ we knew that when the kitten hits the fan, BG is gonna come out swinging
But hey JQ has never had any shortage of delusional nincompoops.
http://www.twitch.tv/disasterdrew
Most players on the EU side play normal hours, we don’t have that kind of coverage like some NA servers, so no surprise it’s not competitive for National Servers, International Servers, have it easy.
Plays completely opposite professions to his main Teef.
(edited by CrimsonNeonite.1048)
They need honest opinions on the subject in order to find the proper system, so excusing the problems with “it’s just le testing duh” actually makes it so their tests are LESS effective. We need to be giving them as much constructive feedback as we can to refine the system.
you’ve read the definition of calibration right?
testing is day 1, calibration is day 2 onwards……..
The OP is pointing out that, contrary to what many thought this system would do, it has on average created a larger gap between the strongest servers and the weakest servers in matchups. This may settle down as matchups go on and servers rise/fall, but giving accurate feedback as the tests progress is the best thing we can do to help better the game.
the OP doesn’t know when to rant
think of it this way,
would you prefer to eat an instant noodle or go to ramen shop to eat freshyly cooked one
-both are tasty
-1 is healthy, 1 is not
-1 is easy to make by yourself, 1 takes long time to be served by others
*some here likes to eat instant noodle so they want an instant WvW repair kit
*some here just went to restaurant to eat a fresh one, but the waiting is making them hungrier so they get angry,
what did the restaurant do?
- serve water, serve appetizer, serve anything that will make the customer wait without being angry
-what did Anet do?
Triumphant armor box with a lot of opportunities/population to get it upon
i am not paid to spoon feed these children…
rant rant rant
you just have to wait
as shaco always says “just a little bit closer”
Gate of Madness
(edited by Norbe.7630)
Stop blaming Anet for coverage issues, that’s what I say.
Oh whoa whoa whoa… right there! If Anet is going to lock the Worlds and be the sole creator of these pairings, then it falls upon Anet to balance coverage and create fair matches. This is an “either or” proposition. If you do not empower the players, then the responsibility and effort falls upon the devs. That’s why I gave them a low rating at this time.
You really want it all. Somehow Anet was supposed to figure out who is on what server after they locked them down, and if they would actually play in WvW at all or not upon the new release. Then, if that was not enough, Anet has to decide are they one-push scrubs or effective players who will do the one-pushing. Then Anet has to send out surveys to those players to see how long they will be playing WvW each time they log and on what days. Throw all the info into the Mystic Forge, and get what? Twelve matchups that are equal?
BTW, please don’t advocate that Anet send the PvP matchmaking team over to WvW, it won’t end any better.
Corsair Vengeance 8Gb @ 1866Mhz | ASUS GTX 970 | Kingston 240 GB SSD
We need a clean thread to discuss the tiers and how the matches are balanced. Every match in NA is already lopsided within a day. For creating good matches, with balanced coverage and populations, I’m giving the Dev’s a D.
What say you?
Not balanced at all. I’m giving a ‘D’ as well.
‘A’ for being able to log in outmanned a majority of the time and finding an enemy blob still using cloaking waters. Thanks, Anet.
Didn’t do anything for our server but give queues in prime yet don’t seem to have gained more than about 5 people and they are running pve builds and die in 2 seconds. Out of prime it’s just as bad as before
Heck of a lot better balance than it was, imo. In the last few weeks before the patch, Kaineng was getting its absolute butt kicked by 200-300k or more, regularly. Now, THAT is imbalance.
I have absolutely no problem with the current matches and their scores. Much, much more reasonable, imo.
Mmo players with a screw loose vs mmo players with two screws loose. All very important stuff.
-Zenleto-
Didn’t do anything for our server but give queues in prime yet don’t seem to have gained more than about 5 people and they are running pve builds and die in 2 seconds. Out of prime it’s just as bad as before
If you have ques, then you gained a lot more than 5 players, that is for sure.
And yea, you’ll see a lot of pve builds out there for a bit….nothing wrong with that….people wanting to check it all out. Once metabattle gets their builds updated for the patch, a lot of those pve only builds will change quickly.
Mmo players with a screw loose vs mmo players with two screws loose. All very important stuff.
-Zenleto-
I surely did NOT ask to be merged with kittening T1
Who the kitten’s genius idea was this?
© sparc.3649 ~ LPC ~ Anvil Rock
\—————————————/
BTW, please don’t advocate that Anet send the PvP matchmaking team over to WvW, it won’t end any better.
Good grief, that would be an utter disaster. The reward tracks from pvp were a nice idea, admittedly……but other than that, please keep the PvP matchmaking team’s grubby hands off of wvw.
Mmo players with a screw loose vs mmo players with two screws loose. All very important stuff.
-Zenleto-
I surely did NOT ask to be merged with kittening T1
Who the kitten’s genius idea was this?
Obviously, ANET hates AR.
Mmo players with a screw loose vs mmo players with two screws loose. All very important stuff.
-Zenleto-
Speaking from the t1 perspective, I’m not sure why people are surprised. Why was their no outrage about balance when the last few weeks/months YB was PvDooring and Siege humping their way to first place every single week? Now 4 days into a new patch BG is actually playing again and in first place and the balance is all off?
Lurock hit it on the head. Whenever there is a patch or a tournament or something special, BG comes out swinging. All YB has to do is weather the storm and BG will lose interest again. Then they can go back to killing those evil walls and doors in peace.
you’ve read the definition of calibration right?
testing is day 1, calibration is day 2 onwards……..the OP doesn’t know when to rant
Do you know what a rant is? Last I checked, one small paragraph and one sentence giving feedback on a system that someone wants feedback on is not a rant lol. In fact, you were the one who went on a rant, then after ranting claimed it was the other guy who ranted. lol
you just have to wait
as shaco always says “just a little bit closer”
But nobody is saying it has to happen now or soon. We’re giving feedback for a beta, which is what Betas are for. Betas are, in fact, not necessarily calibration in the sense that you mean it. In fact, specifically, they are well aware of the fact that there would be population imbalances and opted to use an inverse ranking pairing instead of going by their in house metrics for simplicity’s sake. This is not calibration as you’ve defined it.
We know the results are not final, new matches will be made, the system may be tweaked etc… It’s simply giving feedback based on what is currently available. This is not the same as writing off the whole system, but providing valuable intelligence for the developer to work with. That’s what they want.
Darkhaven Commander
Co-leader of [Sold]
(edited by Arius.7031)
Speaking from the [BG] perspective, I’m not sure why people are surprised. Why was their no outrage about balance when … YB [was winning]? Now 4 days into a new patch BG is actually playing again…
You answered your own question.
And they have, by having rotating pairings to counter the grande bandwagon effect.
Stack up again? Anet changes the pairings.
I think, given all the other options, it’s quite brilliant.
Now if they could allow people their server tags, I think it would be a coup.
It still allows exploitation by making it easy and cheap for guilds to transfer to the bottom server in the linked server they want to go to. There’s already an example of a well known guild on an NA server moving to the bottom guild in the alliance they wanted to join and because its still cheap they can do it for 3 months and move again if the linkage changes.
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
In fact, specifically, they are well aware of the fact that there would be population imbalances and opted to use an inverse ranking pairing instead of going by their in house metrics for simplicity’s sake. This is not calibration as you’ve defined it.
We know the results are not final, new matches will be made, the system may be tweaked etc… It’s simply giving feedback based on what is currently available. This is not the same as writing off the whole system, but providing valuable intelligence for the developer to work with. That’s what they want.
hmmm, i guess you didn’t read at all….
Calibration is the process of finding a relationship between two quantities that are unknown. (when the measurable quantities are not given a particular value for the amount considered or found a standard for the quantity)
you dont want a relationship between two worlds that are unknown to each other and probably never will on the old wvw system for free? lol (this is a joke but meaningful explanation)
highest+lowest
or you want me to explain in terms you cant read and understand again?
just be straight to your so called feedback, you want to make the matches or even the pairings all in your favor…. not for everyone…..
as an example, if you where them (Anet)
how would you solve, no lets face the reality, how would you pair the servers?
your response will reflect if your just ranting too or not.
PS: btw arius, ive kept my promise for uploading the videos, took a while uploading before you got lie low on the forums…(was sad back then, thought another good player was lost due to wvw imbalance..)
Pt.1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FmNgz1uwnY8#t=0
Pt.2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WgF1b1H1lvE#t=0
Gate of Madness
(edited by Norbe.7630)
hmmm, i guess you didn’t read at all….
Calibration is the process of finding a relationship between two quantities that are unknown. (when the measurable quantities are not given a particular value for the amount considered or found a standard for the quantity)you dont want a relationship between two worlds that are unknown to each other and probably never will on the old wvw system for free? lol (this is a joke but meaningful explanation)
Calibration is an intentional act, one that is not being undertaken… that’s my point. I understand what it is, I’m saying this isn’t calibration if I’m understanding what you’re saying properly (I know what calibration is, but that doesn’t mean I know what you mean by it). You link to wikipedia, and from that definition it doesn’t seem to apply here. ANet isn’t calibrating, they’re making a decision to pair up servers based on a specific formula (inverse glicko ranking).
just be straight to your so called feedback, you want to make the matches or even the pairings all in your favor…. not for everyone…..
I would like for it to be balanced for as many people as possible, not just for my server or myself.
as an example, if you where them (Anet)
how would you solve, no lets face the reality, how would you pair the servers?your response will reflect if your just ranting too or not.
Based on actual population metrics as opposed to a “every server gets 1 server that’s the inverse of their ranking”. I would also discount t1-2 from server linking as their queues are bad enough with the revitalized WvW. I would take a look at their in house metrics for how many hours each server puts in and separate them by timezone. Then take the hard population statistics and again separate them by timezone. I would then have them manually and intelligently pair each server based on overall population + hours put in based on time zones (ie servers with off hours paired with servers with NA, balanced servers paired with balanced servers etc…).
Or even role with inverse glicko rating method and instead merely discount t1-2. On average servers that are linked would not be as big as they are now, but would still be bigger than they were previously. This would help alleviate the universal problems with queues, as well as create a healthy variety of playstyles so that lower tier players can play their way without being forced to blob it up.
That’s a couple solutions, there are more, and probably better ones too. Just some of my favorite ideas.
PS: btw arius, ive kept my promise for uploading the videos, took a while uploading before you got lie low on the forums…(was sad back then, thought another good player was lost due to wvw imbalance..)
Pt.1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FmNgz1uwnY8#t=0
Pt.2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WgF1b1H1lvE#t=0
Haha alright I’ll give them a watch.
Darkhaven Commander
Co-leader of [Sold]
….you know that universal queue is already solved in the form of eotm right?
your proposal is good but think of it this way, its a WvW 1.5 version not 2.0
why?
because, it would put again a wall on tiers, lock again each other servers to fight each other, PPT meta again will dominate……. bored players will slumber again on WvW and worst case, leave for good…
just give everybody a chance to meet everyone, i personally don’t want to be separated by tiers to meet some good people, before if you want that there’s a fee, but now its free
you see, everyone is being blind by not seeing the truth, they say that GW2 is Buy to play B2P, and it is also not Pay to Win P2W because there are no items that can be bought with cash that will have advantage of the others,
in order to win…. you must buy gems for the transfer to higher tiers
that is another form of P2W
tiers and ranks are bad image… it bring inequality, it brings imbalance
you’ll ask, so what will be the purpose of winning a match if not for glicko, ranks and tiers?
answer: profit
that would disable one of the deadly sins, the pride, but it would introduce another, greed
Gate of Madness
(edited by Norbe.7630)
I give the devs an A. I’m very happy with the situation in it’s entirety.
….you know that universal queue is already solved in the form of eotm right?
your proposal is good but think of it this way, its a WvW 1.5 version not 2.0
why?
because, it would put again a wall on tiers, lock again each other servers to fight each other, PPT meta again will dominate……. bored players will slumber again on WvW and worst case, leave for good…just give everybody a chance to meet everyone, i personally don’t want to be separated by tiers to meet some good people, before if you want that there’s a fee, but now its free
you see, everyone is being blind by not seeing the truth, they say that GW2 is Buy to play B2P, and it is also not Pay to Win P2W because there are no items that can be bought with cash that will have advantage of the others,
in order to win…. you must buy gems for the transfer to higher tiers
that is another form of P2Wtiers and ranks are bad image… it bring inequality, it brings imbalance
you’ll ask, so what will be the purpose of winning a match if not for glicko, ranks and tiers?
answer: profitthat would disable one of the deadly sins, the pride, but it would introduce another, greed
Not sure that I can agree that tiers and ranks are bad. Some of the worst PvP Iveever encountered was flawed specifically due to a lack of tiers, etc. If you put seriously dedicated players up against more relaxed players who just want an occasional fun match you end up boring the dedicated player with a complete lack of challenge and frustrating the more relaxed player with a nigh unbeatable foe.
Olympic level sport teams should not be placed in competition with a team of middleaged, out of shape, play for lols, weekend warriors.
We need a clean thread to discuss the tiers and how the matches are balanced. Every match in NA is already lopsided within a day. For creating good matches, with balanced coverage and populations, I’m giving the Dev’s a D.
What say you?
Not sure what you’re complaint is. You’re neck & neck with YB, seems like balance to me.
A+
(edited by drcraig.9403)
Fort aspenwood player here: our match ups finally seem even from my perspective.
Before for almost s year now the other two servers had at least twice the amount of people at all times.
And they have, by having rotating pairings to counter the grande bandwagon effect.
Stack up again? Anet changes the pairings.
I think, given all the other options, it’s quite brilliant.
Now if they could allow people their server tags, I think it would be a coup.
It still allows exploitation by making it easy and cheap for guilds to transfer to the bottom server in the linked server they want to go to. There’s already an example of a well known guild on an NA server moving to the bottom guild in the alliance they wanted to join and because its still cheap they can do it for 3 months and move again if the linkage changes.
That’s ok
Their constant rotation is feeding Anet money so perhaps they can invest in buying a WvW dev again. We just have to be nice and not eat the new one alive.
Well, there’s a poll where you can help sort the scores out here:
- PLEASE VOTE FOR SCORING : https://feedback.guildwars2.com/en
….you know that universal queue is already solved in the form of eotm right?
your proposal is good but think of it this way, its a WvW 1.5 version not 2.0
why?
because, it would put again a wall on tiers, lock again each other servers to fight each other, PPT meta again will dominate……. bored players will slumber again on WvW and worst case, leave for good…
EotM is like putting on a band-aid when you catch the cold. EotM doesn’t sate my WvW itch because, even if theoretically it should work like WvW, it doesn’t. People don’t really like having to go to EotM generally, for good reason. This is further problematic when you factor in players who play for ppt or server loyalty, where EotM literally can’t give them what they want.
just give everybody a chance to meet everyone, i personally don’t want to be separated by tiers to meet some good people, before if you want that there’s a fee, but now its free
you see, everyone is being blind by not seeing the truth, they say that GW2 is Buy to play B2P, and it is also not Pay to Win P2W because there are no items that can be bought with cash that will have advantage of the others,
in order to win…. you must buy gems for the transfer to higher tiers
that is another form of P2W
I had plenty of fun when my server was low ranked, I don’t think being low ranked is necessarily bad. It can be for some, and there’s a completely optional solution to that, in transferring to more populated tiers.
Darkhaven Commander
Co-leader of [Sold]
We need a clean thread to discuss the tiers and how the matches are balanced. Every match in NA is already lopsided within a day. For creating good matches, with balanced coverage and populations, I’m giving the Dev’s a D.
What say you?
Not sure what you’re complaint is. You’re neck & neck with YB, seems like balance to me.
A+
There is a 3rd server involved.
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Well, there’s a poll where you can help sort the scores out here:
- PLEASE VOTE FOR SCORING : https://feedback.guildwars2.com/en
The change to scoring which has already been revealed is no solution to the population issues its another band aid. Its a piece but a small piece which provide some mitigation against population disparities but also runs the severe risk of alienating off hours players in ocx, eu and sea times. My fear is that with the linkage system in place and scoring changes anet think its job done, when its not.
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
(edited by morrolan.9608)