Guild Wars 2

Yet other classes keep getting nerfed… good stuff Anet.

this game.. such beauty, such comfort, such nice input handling, such awesome action combat.. and then there is the class design which just makes you want uninstall.

It’s ok, because thief is like the 3rd best class at stealth in the game – GW2 forums 23/05/2015

hobotnicax.7918:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjCBJ40Gwko

Yet other classes keep getting nerfed… good stuff Anet.

I like the devs, I like GW2, but the decision makers DO NOT CARE to make profession and combat development a priority. AT ALL. Our characters and the combat experience are SUPPOSED to be THE most important aspects, but they are given the least amount of effort… GW2 COULD be the most kick butt fantasy combat game out there, but that potential is being completely wasted.

4 years it takes to even touch ranger sword and it wasn’t an improvement… Sad.

Thousands of threads from players begging for stealth changes and condition changes and class balance and more build diversity and GOOD roles and not clunky support designs and to fix pets and TONS of stuff, yet NOTHING.

I like you devs, but being able to cast on the move and having good targeting are not enough… Half of the profession skill comes from fiddling with the combat bar and completely different controls per profession… Nobody wants prefabricated profession difficulty scaling, players want base level designs and uniqueness through skills, not funky mechanics… Players want to play various roles… Players don’t want a forced spvp meta, they want the devs to give the players the tools to play and have fun… Players want to have a smooth “twitch” combat experience, but with all the reticle skills in place of targeted aoe skills and swaps and having 75% of skills on 25s – 1 min ++ cool downs and all the movement imparing conditions raining down… It’s just not good.

You should post this on Reddit and send it to the Wooden Potato guy so we can finally start a dialog about profession and combat development.

I never understood why mesmers won the unofficial most hated stealth class poll, especially when a thief can down and spike you before you ever see him. Even worse if there’s 3 or more of them which is usually the case.

The thing with those builds is that they don’t do damage and have very little chasing power. It’s really easy to walk away from them.

Still annoying and still shouldn’t be possible though.

Reverence.6915:

The thing with those builds is that they don’t do damage and have very little chasing power. It’s really easy to walk away from them.

Still annoying and still shouldn’t be possible though.

Of course they do damage… and can kill opponents.

Stealth on Thief and Mez is too much. We need to get away from stealth in general, limit it to long cool down emergency use slot skills or elites, and make profession improvements.

This build is a complete troll build only works if you actually stay around and let it kill you. This build is about as dangerous as a wet fart.

Swagger.1459:

Of course they do damage… and can kill opponents.

If a player stays around and cannot clear condis. One stealth trap or scrapper pulse will send it running fast. It also struggles against AoE and CC spam. I usually put a knockdown trap on my bar and blow them up when they trip it.

apharma.3741:

It’s ok, because thief is like the 3rd best class at stealth in the game – GW2 forums 23/05/2015

You realize that most of the stealth from this build is from Trapper Runes and not the thief right? There is a Ranger variant of this that IMO is more dangerous.

Straegen.2938:

This build is a complete troll build only works if you actually stay around and let it kill you. This build is about as dangerous as a wet fart.

You miss the point,it’;s about being in stealth 95% of the time while throwing condis around not getting revealed.

Who the hell likes fighting something that ? Imagine if we all run around like this..Whooptie…

Caedmon.6798:

You miss the point,it’;s about being in stealth 95% of the time while throwing condis around not getting revealed.

Who the hell likes fighting something that ? Imagine if we all run around like this..Whooptie…

There is a similar issue with heavy bunker builds. Course a heavy bunker next to a DPS build is crazy deadly and every bit as hard to kill. This thing augments no other class so it sucks outside of trolling stationary targets willing to engage.

I am constantly amazed at how people gripe about builds/mechanics that are at best an annoyance and rarely pose any actual problem in the game itself. Want to talk about how OP perplexity is… I am listening.

How can you compare a bunker to something that is in stealth 95% of the time not getting revealed while throwing condis around.This entire thread goes Whoosh doesn’kitten

Stealth is broken in this game, no matter what classes can do it, always has been always will be. Thieves were built around that mechanic, so they won’t rework it at this point.

And stealth pools in smc.. yeah not the most brilliant idea.

Caedmon.6798:

How can you compare a bunker to something that is in stealth 95% of the time not getting revealed while throwing condis around.This entire thread goes Whoosh doesn’kitten

What you are mostly complaining about here are Trapper Runes which have already seen a few nerfs and to a lessor degree Dire armor. We hardly ever see builds running this rune in the game any longer as Trapper Rune builds are generally weak.

As for bunker v stealth. Well built bunkers can effectively 1v1 indefinitely against any build. Good ones can 2+v1. From my perspective the heavy bunkers are more difficult to kill and bunker builds tend to substantially elevate players around unlike Trapper builds. Which is “worse”… the more difficult to kill play style gets my vote for “how is this still a thing” and that lands squarely on the bunker builds.

Straegen.2938:

This build is a complete troll build only works if you actually stay around and let it kill you. This build is about as dangerous as a wet fart.

Swagger.1459:

Of course they do damage… and can kill opponents.

If a player stays around and cannot clear condis. One stealth trap or scrapper pulse will send it running fast. It also struggles against AoE and CC spam. I usually put a knockdown trap on my bar and blow them up when they trip it.

apharma.3741:

It’s ok, because thief is like the 3rd best class at stealth in the game – GW2 forums 23/05/2015

You realize that most of the stealth from this build is from Trapper Runes and not the thief right? There is a Ranger variant of this that IMO is more dangerous.

Yeah, yeah, he’s totally staying permanently stealthed off that 2s stealth from traps….nothing to do with being able to stack infinite stealth with DP and SA.

apharma.3741:

Yeah, yeah, he’s totally staying permanently stealthed off that 2s stealth from traps….nothing to do with being able to stack infinite stealth with DP and SA.

He only gets perma stealth because of those Trapper Runes. Getting 3s of stealth (because we know he is in SA) every time he uses a trap and drops a trap on heal is effectively 50% of this builds stealth.

At the end of the day griping about a build that can only kill you if you let it is well … ridiculous. Of all the OP broken stuff in WvW… of all the dangerous builds/classes in WvW this one doesn’t even rank above Bear Bow Ranger.

So wait OP uses strategy and beats the thief lol.

Sad. people just want Press F and win in this game.

I will say SicEm should work similarly to the Scrapper’s Detection Pulse or Herald’s Gaze of Darkness. The pet should seek out a stealthed player and apply the reveal.

That said the disruption trap did its job. Course I think those should only use 5 supply and have a much faster deploy time.

Xenesis.6389:

Stealth is broken in this game, no matter what classes can do it, always has been always will be. Thieves were built around that mechanic, so they won’t rework it at this point.

And stealth pools in smc.. yeah not the most brilliant idea.

Was going to post but this says it all.

Straegen.2938:

You realize that most of the stealth from this build is from Trapper Runes and not the thief right?

LOL, trapper runes give 2 secs of stealth to a trap skill, this build normally uses 2 trap skills and the trait that procs a trap on the heal, which provides the minority of the stealth, the majority comes from thief skills / traits – d/p, hide in shadows, stealth on steal & meld with shadows.

For me, the main issue with spammable stealth is loss of target, which is more noticeable on ranged weaps imo.

Would be nice if the stealth acted a bit more like it does in most other games, where if you’re close enough, you get detected, or at least more easily detected.
Or if you take damage, you lose stealth.
And attacking should reveal, even if you miss, even if you get blocked (especially if you get blocked).

Straegen.2938:

Caedmon.6798:

You miss the point,it’;s about being in stealth 95% of the time while throwing condis around not getting revealed.

Who the hell likes fighting something that ? Imagine if we all run around like this..Whooptie…

There is a similar issue with heavy bunker builds. Course a heavy bunker next to a DPS build is crazy deadly and every bit as hard to kill. This thing augments no other class so it sucks outside of trolling stationary targets willing to engage.

I am constantly amazed at how people gripe about builds/mechanics that are at best an annoyance and rarely pose any actual problem in the game itself. Want to talk about how OP perplexity is… I am listening.

I rather fight a heavy bunker build over this 100% stealth while throwing conditions like no tomorrow thing every day. Why? Cause u kittening see it.

Thats not even fun to play against. Mostly because theres nothing to “play” against.

Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365:

Thats not even fun to play against. Mostly because theres nothing to “play” against.

For two classes stealth spam isn’t so much of an issue (Herald and Scrapper). For all other classes there is stealth trap which in this case killed the thief. If none of those are an option, players can actually walk away. Seriously, this build relies on players basically standing still and having light condi removal.

“How is this still a thing”… well frankly it really isn’t. Outside of DH, I see trapper builds hardly ever and far fewer running Trapper runes.

Yeah…I see a thief or mesmer I just move on. Very boring to fight and don’t even waste your time. 90% run anyway.

The issue is more that people find it *boring* to fight against, rather than it being *dangerous*.

That is the one and only thing I do like about Mesmers, I can walk away from them.

trapper runes give 2 seconds of stealth.

if traited in SA this means a maximum of 3 seconds stealth. The lowest cooldown on a trap is 24 seconds for needle trap (if traited). I did not see the user trip once nor did I see Ambush trap used suggesting the trapper had one trap traited.

Traps go on a cooldown. If you trait two traps in addition to trappers respite so as to get one off the heal the most stealth you can get is 9 seconds every 24. This is not one hundred percent uptime on stealth.

This is not an issue with trappers runes. It is d/p and HS getting the majority of stealth.

I see one of these a night in WvW. They hardly rampant and they rarely kill anyone . Irritating yes but if everything people found irritating removed from the game there would be very little of the game left.

So….. a thief that wasn’t able to kill anyone was killed after someone layed a stealth trap.
Are you asking why stealth traps are still a thing or why thieves run kittenty builds that can’t kill anyone is still a thing?

Rofl. Only thieves that still run that garbage are trolls. Build not even close to OP. Next topic plz. GG. EZ.

Hello, OP here. Well I’m not really surprised by some of you who still think that this is harmless and one can just run away from it in every situation. The thing is, the only way I was able to counter that guy was to spend currency for a stealth trap. So using any weapon or utility skills was rendered useless. Sic Em! is also completely useless in such a case, yet is supposed to be a counter to stealth, but hey, you need a target first…

Stealth needs to be toned down, it should be situational and limited.

hobotnicax.7918:

Hello, OP here. Well I’m not really surprised by some of you who still think that this is harmless and one can just run away from it in every situation. The thing is, the only way I was able to counter that guy was to spend currency for a stealth trap. So using any weapon or utility skills was rendered useless. Sic Em! is also completely useless in such a case, yet is supposed to be a counter to stealth, but hey, you need a target first…

Stealth needs to be toned down, it should be situational and limited.

It is harmless though. You literally witnessed how harmless it was as he was unable to down you for the duration of your video. You could have just walked away. It’s not like he’s going to kill anybody other than a complete noob with that build, and he poses no risk on his own to any of your objectives. If this thief’s build makes you rage this hard, I can only assume if you fought a condi PU mesmer you would smash your computer into a million pieces.

But sure you guys keep asking for nerfs to thief and stealth based on troll builds that are barely more harmful than an ambient creature. In my opinion, if anything needs to be toned down in this game right now it’s the ridiculous amount of CC being spammed, boons being easily spammed, and conditions being applied so often through passive means that it equates to burst.

@ godz raiden OK I understand that as you run a thief that you’d like things to stay as they are, but honestly this needs to be toned down quite a bit. If it will do away with such “troll” builds as you call it, then fantastic, it shouldn’t touch your build then at all.
Also your remark about me “raging”.. seriously? Nice try though, maybe next time.

I posted this here and titled it as I did for a reason. No profession in the game should be able to be invisible for 90%+ time of a fight. If it kills anything or not, it’s over the top when it comes to stealth. And when you have more than one of these kind of builds together then yeah, good luck cleansing that condi spam from invisible enemies and good luck placing a stealth trap mid fight.

hobotnicax.7918:

@ godz raiden OK I understand that as you run a thief that you’d like things to stay as they are, but honestly this needs to be toned down quite a bit. If it will do away with such “troll” builds as you call it, then fantastic, it shouldn’t touch your build then at all.
Also your remark about me “raging”.. seriously? Nice try though, maybe next time.

I posted this here and titled it as I did for a reason. No profession in the game should be able to be invisible for 90%+ time of a fight. If it kills anything or not, it’s over the top when it comes to stealth. And when you have more than one of these kind of builds together then yeah, good luck cleansing that condi spam from invisible enemies and good luck placing a stealth trap mid fight.

I don’t know what else you would classify your original post as other than “raging” since you were so upset about something you recorded a video of it and posted it on the forums accompanied by a angry remark about other classes getting nerfed instead of some useless troll build. My concern with nerfing troll builds that are harmless is that the nerfs to those builds almost always impact legitimate builds as well, which hurts classes as a whole.

When it comes down to it, you’re just a person complaining about a build that is used so rarely, and with such little actual success, that there is literally no reason to even appeal to the devs to focus on “fixing” it. Rest assured, if there’s a nerf in the near future to this one particularly, useless build that you are complaining about, then the devs have wasted their time, time that could have been better served on actual balance concerns. Next time you see that thief, here’s a hint: just walk away. Congratulations, you won.

Here is a tip on fighting against traps in general.

Dodge through the trap to trigger it. Basically, a large part of the DPS here is based on (1) you not moving around/away, (2) you not having sufficient condition clears, (3) you not using dodge effectively to trigger the trap and avoid all the condition application at the same time.

The other person in your video didn’t move enough and that is why he was downed several times.

As to the person being invisible for 90% of the time. Think of this build like a bunker build in a lot of ways. It trades damage, especially against a mobile target, for high stealth uptime. It spends a lot of initiate maintaining it’s defense—stealth—along with several utilities.

This is WvW. This build can’t kill anyone in a duel or effectively take an objective. Anyone dying to this build needs to understand they need anti-stealth to take out a stealth bunker build. Otherwise, they need to learn the mechanics and understand why this build shouldn’t be killing them in the first place.

A side note. I spend/spent currency, tokens, whatever, on a lot of things that help me kill people. Food, siege, armor. WvW is not pay to win but it is about investing some resources into honing a build that works. This isn’t sPvP where playing isn’t an investment of resources. Why is spending a few badges (which now drop far more often) and a few silver—and only if you reallllllly want to kill that thief—such a shocking investment? And that assumes you don’t use any abilities that would force reveal the thief (anti-stealth or those that push the thief out of refuge, which I saw this thief using quite a lot).

There was quite a few people running a variant on this build pre HoT, they took the knockdown trap to ensure you could barely do anything if you didn’t stunbreak first.

They took full SA line so generally camped stealth using DP and a little bit of a top up with the traps, it was the bleeds that killed most people.

Was a decent thief streamer playing this build, called it the ghost thief, can flip SM lord with another player just as it tags but unfortunately the rest of his videos have gone from his twitch and he has no highlights I can see of him playing the ghost thief. Used to kill a lot of people with his friend stacking high amounts of bleed extremely quickly, would just harass them and follow in stealth.

No-one could find him or his friend because he spent 99% of the time in stealth and wasn’t fun to fight. 2 of these thieves are a nightmare to run into as you might as well go back to spawn if you have no safe place to go nearby.

Edit: Nvm, here’s a video of them killing people.

That video brings back memories (seeing the buffs the streamer was running from old old WvW).

Very effective build. I can think of a few counters to it. Basi venom, all AoEs, lots of wells, traps (yay counter traps!), etc. As always, need at least two good people coordinating in order to counter two people coordinating.

Stealth allows them to avoid large groups and pick their targets. Otherwise it is just a strong build that the people fighting it didn’t understand.

We need a wvw trap rank line. I don’t know what the specific tiers could be, but maxed out = auto deploy, meaning you could throw those suckers on the go.

HazyDaisy.4107:

We need a wvw trap rank line. I don’t know what the specific tiers could be, but maxed out = auto deploy, meaning you could throw those suckers on the go.

How about anet stops throwing so much stealth into this game, is easier then a mastery like.

joneirikb.7506:

The issue is more that people find it boring to fight against, rather than it being dangerous.

No more or less boring than heavy bunker builds which currently dominate WvW and sPvP.

Offair.2563:

How about anet stops throwing so much stealth into this game, is easier then a mastery like.

They have been actively nerfing stealth for months. PU, got a pretty big nerf. Thieves… most of the better builds don’t even use stealth. Trapper Runes, basically gutted. Backstab, got torched a while ago. Even the new trait line for the thief has nothing to do with stealth nor anything that synergizes with it outside of the Staff trip.

The HoT scrapper gyro on the Engineer has seen some pretty serious nerfs. HoT even added two new anti-stealth abilities in the game that are on by default for the Herald and Scrapper.

My current mesmer build has ZERO stealth, yet I’m still the first one targeted with sic em. Meh, I’m thinking of going back to PU so I can run from the zerk and condi thieves.

godz raiden.2631:

hobotnicax.7918:

Hello, OP here. Well I’m not really surprised by some of you who still think that this is harmless and one can just run away from it in every situation. The thing is, the only way I was able to counter that guy was to spend currency for a stealth trap. So using any weapon or utility skills was rendered useless. Sic Em! is also completely useless in such a case, yet is supposed to be a counter to stealth, but hey, you need a target first…

Stealth needs to be toned down, it should be situational and limited.

It is harmless though. You literally witnessed how harmless it was as he was unable to down you for the duration of your video. You could have just walked away. It’s not like he’s going to kill anybody other than a complete noob with that build, and he poses no risk on his own to any of your objectives. If this thief’s build makes you rage this hard, I can only assume if you fought a condi PU mesmer you would smash your computer into a million pieces.

But sure you guys keep asking for nerfs to thief and stealth based on troll builds that are barely more harmful than an ambient creature. In my opinion, if anything needs to be toned down in this game right now it’s the ridiculous amount of CC being spammed, boons being easily spammed, and conditions being applied so often through passive means that it equates to burst.

The disgusting Maguuma thief speaks the truth. I still roam here and there presently and can’t believe this is where the game is, spamming condis and boons like carbon dioxide in Tokyo. It’s quite boring seeing the same builds and another opponent linking me his/her gear when I say good fight. VIPERS VIPERS VIPERS VIPERS.

The game is like a healthcare plan right now, standardized and you will play this way. Don’t you dare include diversity in your build or stats.

Speaking of cheesy builds… druid sustain

WvW needs to be completely separated from PvE skills. It’s LONG overdue.