Guild Wars 2

Anet: I know this is hard to hear… many talented developers have spent 4-5 years designing a game to be “fun”. In many ways GW2 is a AAA game and did some innovative things that MMORPGs for years to come will imitate.

Unfortunately this does not translate into a WvW environment that is fun for every server/match.

Current Tier 4 scores:

Kaineng: 50,856
Yak’s Bend: 15,131
Crystal Desert: 9,138

After 19 hours, Kaineng has proven they are superior to the other severs in this teir (congrats to them). We have to wait 149 hours (6 days) to attempt to be competitive once again.

Last week Tier 4 final score:

Maguuma: 497,675
Yak’s Bend: 83,648
Isle of Janthir: 33,157

I don’t have scores after 19 hours from the previous week but I know it was roughly the same deal. After 19 hours Maguuma had proven they were superior to the other severs in that match (again, congrats to them).

We had to wait for 6 days (149 hours) for our next chance to be competitive.

I urge Anet to get into emergency mode or at the very least, talk openly and often about this problem. Your player base will not wait around long.. anyone remember Warhammer online?

If I set the technical direction for WvW, which I obviously do not I would limit the WvW matchups to 24-48 hour periods until we can find time to create an environment that offers a competitive matchup for the duration of the event.

-g

Once they close free transfers it will eventually even out and be stable…

Then people will kitten about playing against the same servers every week…

I DO hope that they bring back 24-48 hour matches for a couple of weeks after Monday’s patch. Just to make the new “balancing” of ranks and tiers quicker.

You mean to say that having transfers be free and unlimited for so long enabled large numbers of people to transfer to low-tier servers and completely break the ranking system? Who knew!

Paid transfers star next week. It’s a bit pointless to say they should swap back to 24 hour matches now.

As the other two posters have pointed out. Server stacking will no longer be a problem starting next week due to paid transfers.

I cannot wait for two more days to see where the WvW match up’s stable out to.

24 hour matches are not a long term solution to create a competitive WvW enviroment. It is a short term solution to allow servers to feel like they have a chance when severe imbalance is at play.

This is just a short term issue. Things will stabilize soon once all the bandwagon jumpers have to start paying to move.

What DOES need to change is the weekly match-ups. The current system is broke. Until we get a system where the winner moves up a tier and the loser moves down a tier, we will always have issues. Recently, BG beat up on SoR for what… 8 weeks in a row? How is that fun?

After this week I see the matches getting somewhat competitive with the execption of T4/T5 as they might need another week to swap a few servers around but i agree with a couple other people that the 24hr matches aren’t needed. I would also say that in 1-2 months we could see 2 week matches as the population settle in their new servers.

I am perplexed that everyone thinks this is a server transfer issue. All other things being equal, Kaineng or Maguuma would roll their tier 4 opponents for the foreseeable future. What I am asking for is, if we are to be rolled, let it be for a much shorter duration.

style.6173:

This is just a short term issue. Things will stabilize soon once all the bandwagon jumpers have to start paying to move.

What DOES need to change is the weekly match-ups. The current system is broke. Until we get a system where the winner moves up a tier and the loser moves down a tier, we will always have issues. Recently, BG beat up on SoR for what… 8 weeks in a row? How is that fun?

You know what? I do like the idea of the winner moving up a tier and loser moving down a tier with the 2nd place staying put….but how would any of us convince ANet to try something different. It would keep matchups from feeling stale once the tiers stabilize and we really are facing the same people week after week again.

I am also of the mindset that this is most assuredly NOT fun. I have no desire to sit thru another week of a blowout score that we have no hope of countering by any means we possess. ANet should figure some solution out for us, even if they just reset matches like this every morning and made everyone fight over it all over again it would be better than looking at max upgraded everything with a zerg behind the wall.

I dont mind losing in a fair fight, I dont mind being beaten soundly if facing a better server either…..but this is just like Chuck Norris beating a deaf blind mute in a wheelchair.

Yarr, it be okay matey, soon things will be evenin’ out.

Eventually, ‘da server that be receivin ’da influx o’ new players will become mighty o’ tear ’da server apart horribly.

style.6173:

This is just a short term issue. Things will stabilize soon once all the bandwagon jumpers have to start paying to move.

What DOES need to change is the weekly match-ups. The current system is broke. Until we get a system where the winner moves up a tier and the loser moves down a tier, we will always have issues. Recently, BG beat up on SoR for what… 8 weeks in a row? How is that fun?

And the funny thing is people (from JQ, SoS and SoR, as well as some in BG probably) want SoR in T1. That would make T1 so much more competitive!

Sorry, i’ve mapped the world, done more dungeon runs than i care to admit and wvw is the only reason i play. For the last week its been spawn camped 24/7 and no fun at all. Dropping this game seems likely to happen as for “the next few weeks” this will be the norm. The karma train on Yaks was fantastic but now thats not even possible as theres a zerg hitting you in minutes. Its going to take a lot of matches for these servers to move up and that means a lot of weeks, not just 1 or 2. Sorry anet, good plan but should have done it as a “surprise! now it costs to move!”

Well, at least I learned something from this little transfer debacle. Seems the people most actively recruiting for their server on the forums are the ones most likely to transfer off as soon as things don’t go their way. An interesting little glimpse into the human psyche. I think that thread on the Crystal Desert “Community Experience” by LaZy takes the cake, it’s a shame the OP deleted it.

Waffler.1257:

Well, at least I learned something from this little transfer debacle. Seems the people most actively recruiting for their server on the forums are the ones most likely to transfer off as soon as things don’t go their way. An interesting little glimpse into the human psyche. I think that thread on the Crystal Desert “Community Experience” by LaZy takes the cake, it’s a shame the OP deleted it.

Nope, you need to take Psych101. The majority of those recruiting on the forums are either the oldest or the most dedicated of their server. The purpose of recruiting is to benefit the server, not their personal guild. Those who transfer off easily don’t care about their server enough to actively recruit; they’re the ones looking at recruitment threads to see where they can get easy karma. It’s rather a matter of common sense…

what I would like to know about the kinda of person who transfers around to following the winning team……

does your mother know you do stuff like that?

Man up and join the side that is in need of the help, bring them to the top, and be #1 that way. that is what a real MAN does

Miiaah.5416:

And the funny thing is people (from JQ, SoS and SoR, as well as some in BG probably) want SoR in T1. That would make T1 so much more competitive!

the funny thing is people (from JQ, SoS and BG, as well as some in SOR probably) want BG to stay in T1. They like how T1 is so competitive right now!

I’m sure each server listed above has people who want different things from their server mates. Just read the T1 thread, there are many who want BG to stay and many who want to fight SOR.

I don’t see how thats funny in any sense of the word.

… and I have been in the so called T1 play in this game, let me assure you that it is the most mindless game play you could possibly imagine. ( its just someone telling your Zerg… I mean Guild… to rush over here, rush over here, rush over here, goto this map, rush over here ) The mindless people who xfer all around trying to find T1 will get what they deserve……

Look at Gunnar’s Hold. Last week they wiped entirelly everybody from all BLs. This week they are doing same.

there is a massive difference between tiers, this idea of up and down every week would be stupid.
Look at his expample of Mag from last week dominated tier 4 and currently 3rd in tier 3.
Once it stabilizes then it wont be so bad.

But the system is going to work starting next week. According to millenium SoS, king of wvw for weeks, will drop to T2. The competition in the first 2 tiers has never been more heated.

Those at T4/T5, after this week things will settle down for you.

T4:
Stormbluff Isle
Yak’s Bend
Crystal Desert

T5:
Ehmry Bay
Devona’s Rest
Isle of Janthir

ExZee.8109:

Waffler.1257:

Well, at least I learned something from this little transfer debacle. Seems the people most actively recruiting for their server on the forums are the ones most likely to transfer off as soon as things don’t go their way. An interesting little glimpse into the human psyche. I think that thread on the Crystal Desert “Community Experience” by LaZy takes the cake, it’s a shame the OP deleted it.

Nope, you need to take Psych101. The majority of those recruiting on the forums are either the oldest or the most dedicated of their server. The purpose of recruiting is to benefit the server, not their personal guild. Those who transfer off easily don’t care about their server enough to actively recruit; they’re the ones looking at recruitment threads to see where they can get easy karma. It’s rather a matter of common sense…

Nope, you need to take some economics courses in game theory. There is no sense of dedication or greater good in human decision making, it is all based on maximizing personal utility. The people who most desperately want to be on a top server will make recruitment posts because they have the greatest incentive to ensure that their server succeeds. However, the desire to be on a top server will also make these people the first to jump ship as soon as they perceive a possibility that their server will fail. People who value server loyalty over rankings will be indifferent towards winning or losing and will make no effort to influence those results. It’s rather a matter of simple logic…

I knew this would be about Kaineng just from the thread title. Must be Saturday.

We’re all in that montage of guys Rocky beats up on the way to Apollo Creed. Except in this case Rocky gets to bring 30 other people in the ring with him and he gets to start while the other guy’s asleep.

HoD/ET had months of terrible matches and they didn’t do anything. They aren’t going to do anything now, either.

I think that things will even out a lot more after Monday. Ending free transfers has been hugely painful I think for a lot of servers, lots of upsets that are making these kinds of matches happen. After this week I think it will be better.

Lol, if its not fun dont play. T1 is hectic, trying to be coordinated across the server is no easy task… if your server is getting roflstomped good luck staying ahead anywhere above t2. It speaks volume of your coordination, coverage, and possibly wvw dedication as a whole.

Sadly thats just it. If its not fun, people won’t play. If you’re being spawn camped 24/7 and theres nothing to farm/do (even the salamanders and bears and coyotes are unreachable from spawn) then thats that. server population just wanders off. A lot of us play just for the wvw content, if thats also pointless then yes, time to play something else thats fun. Also, if the paid transfers turn out to be a low cost (say 100 gems, 300 if the servers full) then this will happen all over again when the guilds go “oh, its cheap, lets go back to where we were”. Which means weeks of players doing something else. Those players then may decide to just drop the game entirely. If you haven’t played in weeks, it means you’re doing something else.

Guesting and removing free Server trfs is great however it has caused a significant shift in WvW server strengths that invalidates current ranking.

Therefore to speed up the correcting of the rankings from 2-4 weeks to a week I fully support a change to 24/48 hour matches.

Please ANet we really your decisive support on this one else matches will be terribly boring and consequently people will stayaway from WvW/GW2 until things are fixed.

You have to understand that Kaineg had massive transfers from a T1 guild, and they were oceanic, so even if you guys manage it during the day, they’re going to take it all away at night. When HoD fought Kaineg, it was Dullsville. Just buckle down and enjoy some PvE for a bit or work on some dungeons. But if you wanna help your server, this would be a good week to try and pull more friendly and active players into your guild and create a stronger community there for next week’s action. Good luck!

24 hour matches arn’t really fair compaired to week long matches. Some servers would do really well on weekends then get smashed during the week.

JPSnow.8296:

24 hour matches arn’t really fair compaired to week long matches. Some servers would do really well on weekends then get smashed during the week.

It would only need be for a week until things settle. No system is perfect but making people wait 1,2,3 weeks when they simply cannot play due to such imbalance is in my opinion the worse evil

Drasleona.5049:

to the hurting servers waiting for a competitive match. i have an accurate target to send your hate to. IN BIG LETTERS so u dont miss it THEY ARE THE GUILDS WHO LEFT YOU AND JOINED KAINENG along with other lower tier servers. those people deserted you and are now ruining your gametime in wvw, please send the hate to them! i know a few guilds that deserted isle of janthir to go kaineng, find them and hunt them down! kill them, harrass them and get your revenge

Its not hate. We get not all servers are equal and that’s why we have a ranking system. However due to recent announcement the system is even more borked than usual and in my opinion the best option to avoid white wash matches is to accelerate to a 24 hour match system for a few days as it will self correct things in short order.

Kaineg get better matches and so does CD and YB and any other triumverate of servers in a similar position

Pain.3756:

Anet: I know this is hard to hear… many talented developers have spent 4-5 years designing a game to be “fun”. In many ways GW2 is a AAA game and did some innovative things that MMORPGs for years to come will imitate.

Unfortunately this does not translate into a WvW environment that is fun for every server/match.

Current Tier 4 scores:

Kaineng: 50,856
Yak’s Bend: 15,131
Crystal Desert: 9,138

After 19 hours, Kaineng has proven they are superior to the other severs in this teir (congrats to them). We have to wait 149 hours (6 days) to attempt to be competitive once again.

Last week Tier 4 final score:

Maguuma: 497,675
Yak’s Bend: 83,648
Isle of Janthir: 33,157

I don’t have scores after 19 hours from the previous week but I know it was roughly the same deal. After 19 hours Maguuma had proven they were superior to the other severs in that match (again, congrats to them).

We had to wait for 6 days (149 hours) for our next chance to be competitive.

I urge Anet to get into emergency mode or at the very least, talk openly and often about this problem. Your player base will not wait around long.. anyone remember Warhammer online?

If I set the technical direction for WvW, which I obviously do not I would limit the WvW matchups to 24-48 hour periods until we can find a time to create an environment that offers a competitive matchup for the duration of the event.

-g

The only reason that Maguuma or Kaineng are in those tiers in the first place is because free transfers allowed a top-9 population to inhabit the body of a low tier server. As they climb up you get matches like this until they reach a tier that matches them. Once free transfers are over an equilibrium will be established where everyone will fight opponents of similar coverage, so you will very rarely if ever see scores like this.

A lot of the people transferring under the logic of “well if this is how its going to be from now on…” don’t seem to understand this.

Facet.5914:

Pain.3756:

Anet: I know this is hard to hear… many talented developers have spent 4-5 years designing a game to be “fun”. In many ways GW2 is a AAA game and did some innovative things that MMORPGs for years to come will imitate.

Unfortunately this does not translate into a WvW environment that is fun for every server/match.

Current Tier 4 scores:

Kaineng: 50,856
Yak’s Bend: 15,131
Crystal Desert: 9,138

After 19 hours, Kaineng has proven they are superior to the other severs in this teir (congrats to them). We have to wait 149 hours (6 days) to attempt to be competitive once again.

Last week Tier 4 final score:

Maguuma: 497,675
Yak’s Bend: 83,648
Isle of Janthir: 33,157

I don’t have scores after 19 hours from the previous week but I know it was roughly the same deal. After 19 hours Maguuma had proven they were superior to the other severs in that match (again, congrats to them).

We had to wait for 6 days (149 hours) for our next chance to be competitive.

I urge Anet to get into emergency mode or at the very least, talk openly and often about this problem. Your player base will not wait around long.. anyone remember Warhammer online?

If I set the technical direction for WvW, which I obviously do not I would limit the WvW matchups to 24-48 hour periods until we can find a time to create an environment that offers a competitive matchup for the duration of the event.

-g

The only reason that Maguuma or Kaineng are in those tiers in the first place is because free transfers allowed a top-9 population to inhabit the body of a low tier server. As they climb up you get matches like this until they reach a tier that matches them. Once free transfers are over an equilibrium will be established where everyone will fight opponents of similar coverage, so you will very rarely if ever see scores like this.

A lot of the people transferring under the logic of “well if this is how its going to be from now on…” don’t seem to understand this.

Disagree we get it. We just do not want to wait a few weeks for it to happen.. A few days of 24 matches would more swiftly bring competitive matches for everyone and then we go back to 1 week matches perhaps in time for Friday reset.

Problem is that ranking system doesn’t work if server stop playing after day. They drop too low and faceroll whole next match.

It is not fun.

You had massive transfers from powerful WvW guilds to low level servers. Still can’t figure the reason. That leads to:

a) – overpowered servers in low tiers, that are slowly going up – see SoS and Kaineng. Anyone with such a server in their tier knows what we are talking about.

b) – dead servers with lots of points, that take weeks/months to get on a tier where they can actually compete (see HoD and SBI). Meanwhile, any tier this server is is extremely annoyed since it’s a poor 1 vs 1 on.

So – a lot of tiers are not balanced in any way – therefore not fun. Fortunately this will not occur after the paid transfers – but it will take at least a month or two before it stabilizes. Could have been done better and earlier IMO.

Oh, and probably next week SBI will be fighting Kaineng – this will be so fun for everyone.

earendil.1290:

It is not fun.

You had massive transfers from powerful WvW guilds to low level servers. Still can’t figure the reason. That leads to:

a) – overpowered servers in low tiers, that are slowly going up – see SoS and Kaineng. Anyone with such a server in their tier knows what we are talking about.

b) – dead servers with lots of points, that take weeks/months to get on a tier where they can actually compete (see HoD and SBI). Meanwhile, any tier this server is is extremely annoyed since it’s a poor 1 vs 1 on.

So – a lot of tiers are not balanced in any way – therefore not fun. Fortunately this will not occur after the paid transfers – but it will take at least a month or two before it stabilizes. Could have been done better and earlier IMO.

Oh, and probably next week SBI will be fighting Kaineng – this will be so fun for everyone.

Well said. Lets accelerate the process of getting servers in the right rankings so people can have fun again.

ANet I know you are super busy what with 28th coming up but could you say something/anything about this proposal pls?

What is even more stupid is just how obnoxiously a server like kaineng is benefiting from all the people transferring to a lower tier server. The obnoxious amount of badges and siege weapons this server is getting on a daily basis is bad. Really, really bad.

sirflamesword.3896:

What is even more stupid is just how obnoxiously a server like kaineng is benefiting from all the people transferring to a lower tier server. The obnoxious amount of badges and siege weapons this server is getting on a daily basis is bad. Really, really bad.

Not so bothered about that. I just want to have a reason to fight ad am sure they do too. Badges are pretty rubbish as it is

Ireniicus.2167:

Drasleona.5049:

to the hurting servers waiting for a competitive match. i have an accurate target to send your hate to. IN BIG LETTERS so u dont miss it THEY ARE THE GUILDS WHO LEFT YOU AND JOINED KAINENG along with other lower tier servers. those people deserted you and are now ruining your gametime in wvw, please send the hate to them! i know a few guilds that deserted isle of janthir to go kaineng, find them and hunt them down! kill them, harrass them and get your revenge

Its not hate. We get not all servers are equal and that’s why we have a ranking system. However due to recent announcement the system is even more borked than usual and in my opinion the best option to avoid white wash matches is to accelerate to a 24 hour match system for a few days as it will self correct things in short order.

Kaineg get better matches and so does CD and YB and any other triumverate of servers in a similar position

yea but you are missing the point, you are looking at the current state the servers are in, but you never looked to think of why they are like that.

As others said, this is just a short-term issue. So you just have to… wait for 6 days.

I don’t approve of server hopping myself, but instead of whining and griping all day long about how one server has a clear advantage over the others you could just transfer to another server and rid yourself of the issue. That being said, ending free transfers isn’t going to stop the stacking or the imbalance because hardcore and mindless players will continue to pay money to transfer wherever they please.

The real issue and imbalance with WvW is that is is 3 servers competing against one another instead of just 2; that alone creates a mismatch and imbalance because it’s a given that not all 3 servers are going to be on the same level.

All it takes is for one server to take off with a healthy lead and then the server in last place has everyone shouting that this server is “dead” and suddenly last place has no one competing First place now has a massive population boost, giving them immediate map coverage and control, ultimately leaving second place in a very nasty spot.

Personally, I just vote that WvW become server against server for the sake of balance. Without that third server to possibly contest what you control it becomes harder to maintain map control and you could expect map control to constantly change.

The problem is it isn’t 6 days. last week yaks had the mag steamroll, this week its kaineng, next week its? WvW right now is a ghost town, we’re fielding a max of a 40 player zerg on 1 map vs 50+ zergs on ALL maps fielded by kaineng, each zerg with the same guild tag (one per map it seems) which is awesome co-ordination and good job guys! but its not just us suffering, poor ioj last week and cd this week are even worse off, they’re like finding a unicorn they’re that rare. Our top commanders are now barely bothering to login and that’s a bad sign. I agree with the idea that the matches drop to say 3 day matches, get the rankings sorted and sorted fast. I miss that thing called fun.

It appears to me that in the lower tiers you do not find evenly matched servers. It is almost certainly a long term problem to figure out how to give some balance to the servers that do not have the same population as another server in their tier.

I do not believe stopping free server transfers will solve this problem.

If we have shorter WvW matches, we could at at least have multiple opportunities a week to put up a good fight. The winners want a good fight as do the losers.

I think Anet just need to step in, and manually change the ratings of some servers when appropriate. They could have boosted Kaineng up to tier 3 or 4 when they where still in tier 7. They could have dropped HoD, ET, and now SBI and IoJ down tiers so they don’t have to disrupt every matchup as the implode.

And at the time of writing, the next matchup for Yaks is against a dead SBI and a CD on life support. So if there is a blowout, it’d be in your favour, but again, PvDoor isn’t fun. Good for karma trains though.

the main problem of lack of wvw on lower tier..

2 main reasons:
1.- The ranking/point system. (This is mainly for 3rd place servers)
Once a server hits a big difference like 10-20k ahead the others.. the servers just go like .. F-it.. i go do pve till next week. This often turns the game on 1v1 and often just kill the whole point of having 3 servers.

Fix.- whoever gets 3rd.. should be kick to a lower tier. Instead of having 1-2 months with the same match. It would force the servers to actually try for keeping their tier.

2.- number of servers.-

25 US servers and 25 euro servers? (Not sure if im right)
but thats a lot of servers… And lower tiers have no real aspiration to wvw.. To be honest most of the people looking to wvw often tend to switch to tier 1 or 2.

Forgot to add.. but Some of the servers should be merge to increase population willing to wvw.

Drasleona.5049:

to the hurting servers waiting for a competitive match. i have an accurate target to send your hate to. IN BIG LETTERS so u dont miss it THEY ARE THE GUILDS WHO LEFT YOU AND JOINED KAINENG along with other lower tier servers. those people deserted you and are now ruining your gametime in wvw, please send the hate to them! i know a few guilds that deserted isle of janthir to go kaineng, find them and hunt them down! kill them, harrass them and get your revenge

Let’s be fair. SoS, JQ, SoR, FA, Magumma all got tons of guild transfers. It wasn’t just Kaineng…

Some people seem to be making the assumption that the tiered matchups always feature 3 servers of relatively equal coverage. In T2, the top server is usually a T1 caliber server that is vying to get (back into in some cases) T1. In the early days, SBI or IOJ might be in T2, then move up to T1. Then we had BG, then SOS, then BG again. Now it’s SOR and so far it looks like they’ll move up and SOS will move back down. Short of SOS catastrophically melting down I predict they will win T2 next week.

style.6173:

This is just a short term issue. Things will stabilize soon once all the bandwagon jumpers have to start paying to move.

What DOES need to change is the weekly match-ups. The current system is broke. Until we get a system where the winner moves up a tier and the loser moves down a tier, we will always have issues. Recently, BG beat up on SoR for what… 8 weeks in a row? How is that fun?

As has been explained every time this horrible suggestion is put forth, that causes this issue far more frequently than it could ever fix it. Once rankings level out (which with the exception of IoJ and possibly SBI should be next week) forcing servers up a tier every time they win will cause every other week to have a situation where every matchup is between servers that belong in 3 different tiers. Essentially, in T4 you will have a T5 server playing against a T3 server and a T4 server. In other words, every other week will likely have a complete blowout for almost every match. There’s almost no potential for anything positive to come out of it either as in two days when free transfers are ended, there’s not going to be much (if any) change in server ability, and therefore no reason for the frequent rankings you demand.

Free transfers went on far too long. ArenaNet are unlikely to ever admit this. My take is that they were gnashing their teeth waiting for guesting to be sorted and had to suck up free transfers as an aspect to this.

Paid transfers are long overdue (by about 5 months).

The funny thing is that the servers based on a solid community have very little to worry about, regardless of their position in the tiers/league table (in my opinion). Ultimately I believe these server communites will become the long term winners in WvW, although it may be up to a year or more after GW2 launch before this is readily apparent.

The servers that lose will be the ones that failed to build decent integrated social WvW structures to retain the playerbase needed to win over a long period of time.