Thoughts/criticisms about the recent changes

Thoughts/criticisms about the recent changes

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Posted by: violentlycar.5267

violentlycar.5267

I have some disorganized thoughts about the most recent changes. Here they are in no particular order.

The stat boost is the most criticised part of the changes, but I believe the point bonus on stomp is also unhealthy. The stat buff just has too much player downside. While WvW is a casual format at heart, there are still tons of players who play(ed) it seriously. I don’t see the gain in alienating your core audience with a new mechanic that doesn’t draw new players in. Devon Carver has publicly stated that the goal for Bloodlust is to create a gameplay mechanic that unifies and impacts all maps. This is a reasonable goal, but it absolutely should not come at the cost of the enjoyment of the players who are most invested.

Do some people who like the buff? Sure. Are there more people joining WvW than leaving? I can only speak for what I see on my home server, but the answer right now seems like an overwhelming “no.” Add the evidence that the buff is actually causing lag, and you have a pretty clear case that Bloodlust has done more harm than good

As for stomp points, I think these are harmful to the game even without stat boosts. From a balance standpoint, the bonus is game-warping on larger servers. From a gameplay standpoint, the bonus creates many unhealthy incentives. First, the balance issue. Let’s compare Bloodlust to Stonemist Castle. Stonemist Castle is worth 35 points every 15 minutes. That’s 2.33 points per minute. You don’t think a T1 server that has queued every map can manage 2.3 stomps a minute, or 0.58 stomps a minute per map? Of course they can. They can often manage well over that. Over 80 stomps per 15 minutes is not unreasonable for T1. Should Bloodlust really be worth twice that of Stonemist? That seems absurd to me. On the other hand, for smaller servers with coverage gaps, the buff can do almost nothing. Between the stat points discouraging play at off-peak hours and there simply not being many players out, the amount of stomps drops off dramatically, rendering the buff more or less inert. This is actually a symptom of an even bigger problem with WvW (the 24/7 week long matchup), but that’s another topic for another day.

The stomp penalty also encourages people to play less. First, small group roaming is discouraged. A group of 2-4 is zerg food unless you’re playing a highly mobile class. You’re also discouraged from running on a map where you’re outnumbered since there’s an inherently higher risk of dying, thus feeding points. You also have unhealthy cases like players logging out when they’re about to be stomped. If a game mechanic encourages you to log out in order to avoid consequences, that is a serious problem because it’s not even a game mechanic. Finally, you have the fights themselves. It’s Stomping during big fights is often suboptimal. That players are faced with an awkward decision: play optimally to win the fight but get fewer points, or play suboptimally to get more points but risk losing the overall fight. Why would you force this decision on us? Having tension in some decisions is good, but not when you’re forcing us to choose between the intrinsic reward of winning a fight and the extrinsic reward of gaining points.

I don’t really see any way to retain the mechanic while fixing the problems. You can’t fix the balance issue unless you want to start rewarding half or even quarter points, which then just makes it even more pointless on lower tier servers. You can’t fix the gameplay inventive problems because even at low values, players are still punished for going for “hero” captures or risky moves. It means that the optimal play is actually very passive, methodical, zerg play, and that’s way less fun.

Finally, though this is of little consequence, I have a serious problem with the name. It’s poor design to use the same word when naming two different game mechanics. The power stacking sigil has always been called “Bloodlust,” and using that word to describe an entirely different game mechanic leads to confusion and a loss of clarity. Seriously, couldn’t it have been called “Spoils of War” or something?

Hopefully this gets some people thinking.

Maguuma – plays Asuras with various permutations of the name “Viocar”

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Posted by: Blackjack.2083

Blackjack.2083

WvW in GW2 is so flawed it’s infuriating. Frustrating because it could be good, heck it could be great, but they just don’t get it. In my opinion it is fundamentally flawed from the get go by not having any real effort in place to help balance population and coverage imbalance. WvW doesn’t need to be “fair” but having a 10th ranked server vs a 17th ranked server is so grossly one-sided there isn’t even a point in playing. The Bloodlust buff only helps to exacerbate a bad situation, anyone with a bit of common sense would have seen this happening.

For three weeks my server has been facing opponents ranked 7 spots above us. It is so pointless and demoralizing at this point. Log on at reset….keep taken within 30 minutes….all our belongings in EB and BL gone in a few hours….log in the next morning…we are camped at our spawn. Not only are we completely overwhelmed with numbers our opponents have bloodlust buff lol. Meanwhile, I’ve got my outmanned buff going offering me free repairs while I get farmed and a MF buff…..great. Myself, and many others, play GW2 for WvW…..for three weeks I’ve barely played and when I have it hasn’t been much fun.

The number one “fix” has to be finding out a way to get the population numbers in WvW matchups closer. This should have been a focus for the dev team handling WvW from the beginning. People have provided different ideas that could work but we have not heard anything from Anet regarding this glaring problem. You will never have a successful WvW/PvP game where you are faced with such obvious balance issues. The matchups were supposed to be “stabilized” by now according to them….they are not.

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Posted by: violentlycar.5267

violentlycar.5267

I honestly think the 24/7 week long matchup system needs a significant overhaul to really that scenario, but that’s something I never see changing.

Maguuma – plays Asuras with various permutations of the name “Viocar”

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Posted by: Skeletor.9360

Skeletor.9360

Biggest complaint. Nobody wanted this stuff and everyone wanted other stuff. Completely disconnected development team from the customer.

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Posted by: Peetee.9406

Peetee.9406

Cmon dude, it’s great.

JQ ticks at almost +600 this morning because BG (#1 NA) has less than 30 people in total between all 4 maps. I’m sure they were all just sleeping this morning and it has nothing to do with the bloodlust buff.

Kayku
[CDS] Caedas
Sanctum of Rall

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Posted by: Sarrs.4831

Sarrs.4831

Cmon dude, it’s great.

JQ ticks at almost +600 this morning because BG (#1 NA) has less than 30 people in total between all 4 maps. I’m sure they were all just sleeping this morning and it has nothing to do with the bloodlust buff.

BG’s taking this boycott thing seriously? Fantastic. Good to know I’m not the only one.

Nalhadia – Kaineng

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Posted by: Benjamin.6235

Benjamin.6235

The stomp points really need more attention. Once people adjust to the points involved in losing fights while they don’t have bloodlust, the game is going to get really passive. Wait. The game is already really passive. I mean it’s going to get even more passive.

I feel as the weeks go by, we’ll learn that nothing was actually improved by this update. Anet really needs to put a new group in charge of WvW development. Preferably with some people that play the game on T2 and lower servers. Wait. I mean preferably with people that play the game at all.

[DERP] – Maguuma

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Posted by: Sarrs.4831

Sarrs.4831

The stomp points really need more attention. Once people adjust to the points involved in losing fights while they don’t have bloodlust, the game is going to get really passive. Wait. The game is already really passive. I mean it’s going to get even more passive.

I have to be completely honest; I’m very skeptical that anyone cares at all about the point scores. Winning the games doesn’t matter until leagues and coverage will still win the day there, so… Eh.

Nalhadia – Kaineng

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Posted by: Benjamin.6235

Benjamin.6235

Yeah, but have you ever held out in a tower knowing that you’d die just to hold it one more tick? It wasn’t a big deal as far as points. More a point of pride. With the current system, any sort of last ditch efforts just put your server further behind. Whether it matters or not, it still puts a pretty kitten feeling on what used to be interesting gameplay.

[DERP] – Maguuma

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

In the beginning there was a recognition that WvW battles can’t be balanced the way PVP fights are.

Somehow, this simple observation has grown into a full blown strategy that is destroying WvW:

  • Power creep through WXP abilities
  • Ascended weapons in WvW
  • Buffs for the leading team
  • Increasing rewards for winning servers
  • Match-ups that are more and more unbalanced
  • Leagues involving severely mismatched severs
  • No attempts to balance WvW server populations

Then we have QoL changes such as reducing lag and improving the commander system pushed back behind the release of performance degrading new content.

WvW needs competitive match-ups and tools that help less organised servers get better organised far more than it does new content. Yes, the domination of zergs was a problem, but the solution for at wasn’t an sPvP system that gives low rewards to participants (sooner or later people will realise that zerging still gives far greater rewards regardless of whether or not they have the Bloodlust buff).

ANet clearly do care (e.g. all the map development work that could have going into PvE or PvP) but that on its own has not been enough for them to pay more than superficial attention to this communities ideas about what will make WvW more successful. (Devon Carter’s notorious post may have upset many people, but it did put out in the open what was already happening in practice.) I’m hoping this latest disaster will be the catalyst for Anet finally giving deeper consideration to insights and recommendations this community has about what will make WvW work better.

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Posted by: Noss.4105

Noss.4105

WvW in GW2 is so flawed it’s infuriating. Frustrating because it could be good, heck it could be great, but they just don’t get it.

QFT.

(when was the last time you saw someone write “QFT”?)

N*** Dew Gunnar’s Hold
WvW Roaming with Mesmer