My main opinion is its a good start, however i think these should be used to to promote smaller group play, i must admit iw as sad when i noticed that reduced guard damage was only a max of 5%….. and 5% more damage. IMO we should be able to take considerably less damage from guards because guards are one of the major tings that promote grouping up etc. If we had W3 abilities such as reduced guard damage then a small 5 man group could take a keep ninja style AND be able to fight off other players whiloe the guards are on them which is pretty much impossible atm, thats my 2 cents whats yours?
My main opinion is its a good start, however i think these should be used to to promote smaller group play, i must admit iw as sad when i noticed that reduced guard damage was only a max of 5%….. and 5% more damage. IMO we should be able to take considerably less damage from guards because guards are one of the major tings that promote grouping up etc. If we had W3 abilities such as reduced guard damage then a small 5 man group could take a keep ninja style AND be able to fight off other players whiloe the guards are on them which is pretty much impossible atm, thats my 2 cents whats yours?
Guards do very little, a good five man will ignore them and kill the players. %5 damage swing is a waste of points, worthless ability, like the rest of them.
grouping as in taking a keep yes a solo/duo group cant do kitten when 4 guards are on top of them plus a player and pretty much the same for a 5 man. If they were able to have more % reduction from guards they could just ignore them kill players and smaller groups coulda take towers and camps with much more ease.
I can get into keeps through places there are no guards. And all i’d have to do is deal with the Keep Lord and his little group. Possible for an organized group of 5 ppl.
Guards dont do much anymore. They used to be good, not at fighting or even really keeping anyone at bay (or out of bay!). But they were good at getting people into combat. And when they got 5 ppl into combat, poof orange swords popped up and it was an indication stuff was going on.
They served as an early warning system. Now that this has been raised, they pretty much do nothing but annoy people with some CCs.
Overall, I like the way they have done the abilities. Nothing will be stupid OP like so many games but over time they will add up to make you better in WvW. Far as the guard discussion, personally I think they should be far tougher. Pretty easy to duo any camp kitten mesmer in my guild solos camps easily). I do want there to be more for small groups to do in WvW but guards are pretty wimpy
The abilities are fine and all that jazz… but for what some of you are saying, yeh when I am with 1-2 of my guildmates we usually just ignore guards and kill players… but I take camps and I have taken towers solo so l2spec I guess.
a mesmer, but many classes can’t, and also she solos it alone yes but one person shows up shes gonna have to run instead of being ale to turn and fight. but well see what happens overall i think they could have promoted smaller group play in this patch and the oppositte is happening, to me its a shame.
Yeh, you are right… my thief can’t do it and my guardian.. I’ve never tried but he is the p/t/v I’ll give that a go sometime as well just so I can find if its a mesmer thing or whatever… <— that was me talking about soloing a tower… I can solo camps on any of my toons and my thief is glass cannon so its pretty easy if he can survive solo.
youve taken towers, or camps with no players defending.
Well 1 player makes no difference in me taking a tower or camp on my mesmer, but yes players do throw a wrench into soloing on the other toons, when I’m faced with more than 2 guards.
ya and thats my point, i think that basically if decide to spec into the guard thing, which lets be honest is the best out of the abilities for soloing…the only one useful at all really why not just make it so that you can have 5 guards on you and if you are good still manage to kill a player as well.
Nothing will be stupid OP like so many games but over time they will add up to make you better in WvW.
I don’t see the majority of them adding up to making any significant difference at all. The bonus values are just too weak. +5% siege damage, so a door that would have taken 20 ram swings to break will now take 19. This won’t change any battle outcomes, or anyone’s tactics.
The extra supply is the only one they did right: a noticeable difference that may actually alter how you play (even if only slightly) but which will take a long time
to reach full potency. The others will be quickly earned and then ignored as irrelevant; at their current values they were a waste of development resources.
i agree, if they are going to make it where you can carry 50% more supply than before than i say it should be 50% more damage to guards etc, even if this mean buffing the guards health/ damage a little.
overall i was extremely extremely sad when i saw the guard damage/reduced was only 5% i was honestly expecting something major at least for the 5th tier not just 1/2/3/4/5%
yea 5% is a joke and the supply increase takes too much to reach. You need to be rank 301 without spending any points on any other ability to max it out. That being said, if they didn’t make it like that, everyone will be going for it. In fact, everyone I know is actually going for it even though it takes forever, especially on low medium tiers where huge zerg battles are rare.
Another thing I want to point out, is that this change in one way or another encourages karma trains. I was hoping they would increase the rank xp for defending, or give xp for upgrading. The hardcore wvw players who stay behind to defend and upgrade once again drew the short straw.
Dijla – Charr Warrior
[GoA] Guardians of Arcane – Officer
Ruins of Surmia – Commander
Another thing I want to point out, is that this change in one way or another encourages karma trains. I was hoping they would increase the rank xp for defending, or give xp for upgrading. The hardcore wvw players who stay behind to defend and upgrade once again drew the short straw.
That’s actually an interesting idea, getting world xp for buying an upgrade. Hopefully Anet looks into this.
Guard/NPC killers:
Waste of points. Two people can wipe a camp as-is.
Supply boost:
Basically a waste of points given cost-to-benefit ratio but I imagine most people will get it eventually due to lack of other options. It’s not that it’s bad it’s just that it takes a TON of points for a relatively minor personal benefit.
Cannon boost:
Nice but how often do you run a cannon? You’ll spend a lot of points for something that you generally won’t get to use (or at towers, won’t get to use for very long — cannons are quickly killed and cannoneers are exposed). Often there will be cannons but someone else is on them in which case your points are wasted.
Ballista boost:
Easily the best and most useful of the bunch. At least ballistas can be readily available.
Siege bunker/might:
Eh. Again not a great cost-to-benefit ratio but at least it’s generally useful.
Guard/NPC killers:
Waste of points. Two people can wipe a camp as-is.
Supply boost:
Basically a waste of points given cost-to-benefit ratio but I imagine most people will get it eventually due to lack of other options. It’s not that it’s bad it’s just that it takes a TON of points for a relatively minor personal benefit.
Cannon boost:
Nice but how often do you run a cannon? You’ll spend a lot of points for something that you generally won’t get to use (or at towers, won’t get to use for very long — cannons are quickly killed and cannoneers are exposed). Often there will be cannons but someone else is on them in which case your points are wasted.
Ballista boost:
Easily the best and most useful of the bunch. At least ballistas can be readily available.
Siege bunker/might:
Eh. Again not a great cost-to-benefit ratio but at least it’s generally useful.
All in all pretty underwhelming.
I agree entirely. I went over and concluded that the bonus given is so small as to not be a bonus at all. I also concluded that the ballista skills seemed the good choice, though I would have loved to see trebuchet and arrow cart bonuses, considering that I seldom use a ballista.
Except, for some reason, there aren’t any trebuchet or arrow cart abilities.
By investing one point in ballista, it seems to have given me a new skill to use with the weapon, which is an interesting sounding unlock.
If Treb mastery existed, how about alternate animals to fling, like plague dolyak? Or a reduced cooldown time? A quicker turning time perhaps? So many easy suggestions and none used.
Guard/NPC killers:
Waste of points. Two people can wipe a camp as-is.
Supply boost:
Basically a waste of points given cost-to-benefit ratio but I imagine most people will get it eventually due to lack of other options. It’s not that it’s bad it’s just that it takes a TON of points for a relatively minor personal benefit.
Cannon boost:
Nice but how often do you run a cannon? You’ll spend a lot of points for something that you generally won’t get to use (or at towers, won’t get to use for very long — cannons are quickly killed and cannoneers are exposed). Often there will be cannons but someone else is on them in which case your points are wasted.
Ballista boost:
Easily the best and most useful of the bunch. At least ballistas can be readily available.
Siege bunker/might:
Eh. Again not a great cost-to-benefit ratio but at least it’s generally useful.
All in all pretty underwhelming.
May I quote your opinion on this? I’d like to share it with my forum mates.
I understand that the skills need to be balanced for a large group of people, but I still feel like all the skill effects are underwhelming. I mean, 300 points for the ability to carry only 5 more supplies, and 200 points for the ability to carry only 4 more? It makes the skill system completely forgettable. I was hoping to get something that had a bigger impact on the game. This whole “we don’t want to take too big balancing steps” idea, is getting old. You’re going to make mistakes ArenaNet, and that is a good thing! It’s the only way we can learn, and grow to become better. So stop being so scared of making an impact on the game!
80 Ranger | 80 Mesmer | 80 Thief | 80 Guardian | 40 Engineer
“The learned is happy, nature to explore. The fool is happy, that he knows no more.”
-Alexander Pope
The whole point of the abilities is that they should be under-whelming. If they actually made a significant difference to your efficiency, then people would be forced into grinding out max rank on a single character asap, and players coming late to WvW would be completely kitten
As it is, they’re a nice little boost, but not neccesary. Which means if you want to play alts, don’t want to zerg-ride for 8 hours a day to keep up, or are simply new, then you can still play without feeling useless.
rank 1) +1 to amount of ppl that can be hit by your aoe
rank 2) +2
rank 3) +3
etc
This would solve the QQ about aoe limit and the QQ about no meaningful abilities, without giving new players a huge disadvantage cause in any fight where their individual skill / strenght actually matters (smaller fights) there is no difference.
I think the abilities are good, it’s the players that are making them hurt the game. Did everyone forget that the game is not a grind? The abilities aren’t supposed to be good enough to force you to grind them out.
Everyone is rolling around in mega zergs flipping as fast as possible to get WXP, but how is that fun? You’re basically grinding in WvW now, but for what? So you can more effectively grind next week?
I’m anxious for the initial wave to die down so that people get back to playing the game for fun, not to make a little rank bar tick up to another number.
Edit: That being said, I must admit I’m enjoying all the easy leveling for my engy alt.
Supply boost:
Basically a waste of points given cost-to-benefit ratio but I imagine most people will get it eventually due to lack of other options. It’s not that it’s bad it’s just that it takes a TON of points for a relatively minor personal benefit.
All in all pretty underwhelming.
Pretty much summed it up.
Is this really the best Anet can do? I mean, really?
As it is, they’re a nice little boost, but not neccesary.
They are so nice and little, that you don’t even notice them.
5% more damage or 5% less damage is within the limits of a statistical error.
Don’t get me wrong – i like the whole wvw-abilities idea, but it seems to me, that most of these abilities – at least in their current shape – only have a placebo-effect, nothing more.
The whole point of the abilities is that they should be under-whelming. If they actually made a significant difference to your efficiency, then people would be forced into grinding out max rank on a single character asap, and players coming late to WvW would be completely kitten
As it is, they’re a nice little boost, but not neccesary. Which means if you want to play alts, don’t want to zerg-ride for 8 hours a day to keep up, or are simply new, then you can still play without feeling useless.
Please stop applying grind to everything. Just because something is desirable to get, it doesn’t mean that it automatically becomes a grind. If you make a new feature that has no impact on the game, it means that it’s not worth considering when you’re playing. And if you’re just mostly ignoring the new feature, then what’s the value in adding it to the game in the first place?
I’m not asking for a skill that gives you 50% more damage. Just give us the ability to carry 10 more supply, with each 1 supply costing 15 WXP. Add a skill that give players the ability to cast Swirling Winds (with a 60 seconds recharge) on siege weapons, costing 50 WXP. Add a skill that increases swiftness duration on allies by 10%, costing 25 WXP. And so on.. 300 points for the ability to carry 5 more supply? It’s just silly.
80 Ranger | 80 Mesmer | 80 Thief | 80 Guardian | 40 Engineer
“The learned is happy, nature to explore. The fool is happy, that he knows no more.”
-Alexander Pope
The only world vs world ability that should be in the game is not. People need a reduction to damage taken when they have multiple attackers on them. Every single person in this game hates being hit by more than 3 people that stick on them like rabid dogs.
Sometimes just making it 10 feet to the entrance of a: tower, keep, or castle can be so frustratingly impossible that you literally smash your keyboard into small pieces, cutting up your hands.
Thank god culling is gone at least now we will not wonder into a group of 5 people only to find out there is actually 20 there but the game didn’t load them.
The whole point of the abilities is that they should be under-whelming. If they actually made a significant difference to your efficiency, then people would be forced into grinding out max rank on a single character asap, and players coming late to WvW would be completely kitten
As it is, they’re a nice little boost, but not neccesary. Which means if you want to play alts, don’t want to zerg-ride for 8 hours a day to keep up, or are simply new, then you can still play without feeling useless.
This is a silly argument in my opinion.
First I would argue that you should never put anything under-whelming in the game, it makes you look stupid as a company. The WXP cost this game players, people that had hoped ANET finally was going to pay attention to WvW and instead they got ‘under-whelming’, and now your justifying that? Horizontal progression can be cool, ANET decided to make it ‘under-whelming’ instead.
I disagree with the entire idea that we cannot have a vertical progression system. The excuses you use are old, and tired, no more true for this game, then when they were used in past games like DAoC and WAR. As a game progresses the company makes it easier and easier to achieve the lower levels. When I returned and started from scratch in both DAoC and WAR I had no issues at all. Sometimes I adjusted how I played, starting more defensive because I knew I was behind the gear curve, in other cases I just jumped right in to a competitive 8-man and earned ranks so fast that I could cover the important points in a very short period of time.
90% of the people in this game play in large groups of other players, the fact that they are 0 rank and others are max rank would have little to no impact upon how they play the game anyways.
The whole point of the abilities is that they should be under-whelming. If they actually made a significant difference to your efficiency, then people would be forced into grinding out max rank on a single character asap, and players coming late to WvW would be completely kitten
You are not the only one here who has decided that the only ways these could have been implemented are either “insignificant” or “overpowered”. There is certainly a middle ground. Using DAoC’s ability cost system would have enabled this: make each level of an ability give a small but useful bonus, and make it the same amount at each level, but make the costs increase dramatically from one level to the next. Then new players can gain the early cheap levels quickly and narrow the performance gap, while veteran players still have the later expensive levels to work towards.
As it is, they’re a nice little boost, but not neccesary.
For the most part, they’re not nice little boosts. They’re completely irrelevant to battle outcomes or player tactics. Something that doesn’t change any results or influence you to play any differently might as well not even exist.
