Guild Wars 2

I generally don’t post much in the forums because anything constructive posted gets moderated or deleted… but here we go. All of this is my own constructive criticism on the recent stability change.

The recent stability changes to the game have really made wvw open field fights not fun. I’m not saying that the way it was before was right, or that the new design is bad or wrong, but what I am saying is its not fun.

Now it really boils down to a numbers game or who gets caught first. For the most part GvGs really didn’t change a ton it just got even more pirate ship like, which started before the patch.

The biggest thing is that melee is useless at this point unless they are wearing full tank gear. It leaves little room for build diversity, and removes the rock/paper/scissors balance that somewhat existed before.

At the end of the day this is a perfect example of the developers continuing trend to not listen to the WvW community.

I havent given a ton of thought on what I would do to fix this… maybe make heavies more naturally tanky to improve build diversity. Adjust the number and duration of stability stacks applied.

In conclusion, WvW just is not fun anymore. People just circle each other for a while, casters trying to cast on the enemies, then one group makes a move and the other dodges out. Repeat, until one group lands a CC or the other group gets bored and pushed and then people melt. The end. There really aren’t any tactics anymore. It is very disappointing.

Fear not! ANET is introducing a new map soon. That map is no longer about the fights. It is about groups fighting NPCs and completing PvE events.

At least that is what I saw in the new borderlands preview. Maybe someone messed up and showed off a PvE zone instead.

I’m waiting for the official stream and the beta tomorrow to give my feedback on the new map. I am not optimistic…

Haha make heavies more naturally tanky. How to kitten you can make something more naturally tanky than warrior. I think that full berserkker warrior should have at least 3500 armor, +30k hp and healing signet should tic at least 1k/second without any healing power.

Well look at it from the other side its no fun to have most of your ability do nothing to stop a melee from getting to you. Its not fun to have melee able to run away from you becuse they are immune to every thing in the game.

When a war (the only classes that got hit hard and the only all in melee class) gets on a caster the caster should play for it but a war should not get a free pass when getting on that caster nor should the war get a free pass to get away. And that the way of things the War class has needed a nerf for some time it was out right silly for a class to of been so unstoppable as the war class and most ppl saw and asked for something to hit them. Stab update makes you able to some what counter a war.

What ppl do not seem to get is that stab is made to be apart of stun brakes BUT stab was mostly used as an passive invaluably to hard cc not as a stun brake. So there had to be a hit to its after effect. Now there is a good reason to use stab ability as stun brakes and not just spam your stab ability before you get hit with a hard cc. Also Hard cc is doing something even if its just setting up another hard cc. There should NEVER be a time that its ok to walk though 10+ ground skills unless your using an invaluably that is on a long cd and only last for a very short time.

DemonNinja.1602:

The recent stability changes to the game have really made wvw open field fights not fun. I’m not saying that the way it was before was right, or that the new design is bad or wrong, but what I am saying is its not fun.

The provlem here is two fold in my opinion. First is that you are confusing subjective opinion with objective fact. Secondly is you state your opinion as if it were fact. I, personally, find the changes, to have greatly expanded my fun when it comes to fights, open field or otherwise. By the way, why did you make an entirely new thread simply for your opinon, instead of posting in one of the ongoing threads that already exist?

I didnt agree with the change for various reasons, but I adapted like many others have and Im still having a lot of fun in wvw. I like seeing large guild groups dropping like flies because they can no longers stack and abuse stability and go through all the cc’s and damage while taking little to no damage like before. Its easy to see which players/guilds have not adapated to the change, and personally speaking it hasnt affected me all that much because I never stacked stability so it was easier for me to adapt. I used it situationally, when needed.

In the past you had what I call the “staredown meta” groups basically faked pushes going back and forth trying to get the enemy to blow their long cd skills before attacking all the while stacking stability and never pushing unless it was stacked up. It was boring as hell because it would just go on forever a lot of times. Even with the pirateship meta, which is not as common as many would think, its still better that players are actually attacking and not just moving back and forth stacking boons.

The bigger problem has been the ridiculous rise in usage of arrow carts since the camera change, its like eotm in wvw, every fight, the enemy builds arrow carts, its getting pathetic.

Jski.6180:

Well look at it from the other side its no fun to have most of your ability do nothing to stop a melee from getting to you. Its not fun to have melee able to run away from you becuse they are immune to every thing in the game.

When a war (the only classes that got hit hard and the only all in melee class) gets on a caster the caster should play for it but a war should not get a free pass when getting on that caster nor should the war get a free pass to get away. And that the way of things the War class has needed a nerf for some time it was out right silly for a class to of been so unstoppable as the war class and most ppl saw and asked for something to hit them. Stab update makes you able to some what counter a war.

What ppl do not seem to get is that stab is made to be apart of stun brakes BUT stab was mostly used as an passive invaluably to hard cc not as a stun brake. So there had to be a hit to its after effect. Now there is a good reason to use stab ability as stun brakes and not just spam your stab ability before you get hit with a hard cc. Also Hard cc is doing something even if its just setting up another hard cc. There should NEVER be a time that its ok to walk though 10+ ground skills unless your using an invaluably that is on a long cd and only last for a very short time.

I am really sorry for this but from what you are saying it would seem that you have very limited knowledge about the issue at hand.

Regarding the first paragraph:
Melee unstoppable? How? When? Well yes, they got access to stability, but its never in a way that you can achieve perma stability… Guard has 5 sec stab on 24-30 sec cd; War can have 3 stabs for 10ish seconds, for 40, 60 and 90 second cds – which sounds like War is overpowered but keep in mind that in order to do that they have to sacrifice 2 utilities and a major trait – and all the stabs have long cds.

As ranged all you need to do is either kite till stab runs out or rip the stab down from enemy. Also no melee (unless War is using berserker stance (8sec on 60 sec cd) is immune to soft CC. Seriously man, just open your eyes, look at enemy you are targetting and see for yourself if he has stability = dont use hard CC, see if he has defiant stance = dont dps … its simple, dont face roll your keyboard and expect enemies to die, play smart.

Furthermore, how is stab mainly a stunbreaker? You said: “What ppl do not seem to get is that stab is made to be apart of stun brakes” – are you high or something? Last time I checked my guard I saw this:
SYG: stunbreak
HG: not a stunbreak
Virtue of Courage (as currently used by WvW guards): not a stunbreak
other source of stab which are not really used in WvW that much are Tomes with Elite Focus: not a stunbreak

If I understand it right, when I play my guard I HAVE TO pop stab before engages, its useless otherwise – and not just because its not a stunbreak but because I have other players in my party who rely on me to give them the stab so that they can do their job properly.

There is no free pass for any class to do what they want, and if there is its for a very short time (like war stances). The only such thing is EVADE – making you basically invulnerable for 3/4 – 1 sec => but this mechanic is available to everyone, not just melee classes.

PS: I have been following your posts for a while now and it would seem you have a very weird view of WvW, I have no idea where and when you play to get such impressions and ideas… seriously for most of the stuff you say on these forums I can just say open your eyes and pay attention to whats happening around you and dont just spam spells randomly…

Jski.6180:

Well look at it from the other side its no fun to have most of your ability do nothing to stop a melee from getting to you. Its not fun to have melee able to run away from you becuse they are immune to every thing in the game.

When a war (the only classes that got hit hard and the only all in melee class) gets on a caster the caster should play for it but a war should not get a free pass when getting on that caster nor should the war get a free pass to get away. And that the way of things the War class has needed a nerf for some time it was out right silly for a class to of been so unstoppable as the war class and most ppl saw and asked for something to hit them. Stab update makes you able to some what counter a war.

What ppl do not seem to get is that stab is made to be apart of stun brakes BUT stab was mostly used as an passive invaluably to hard cc not as a stun brake. So there had to be a hit to its after effect. Now there is a good reason to use stab ability as stun brakes and not just spam your stab ability before you get hit with a hard cc. Also Hard cc is doing something even if its just setting up another hard cc. There should NEVER be a time that its ok to walk though 10+ ground skills unless your using an invaluably that is on a long cd and only last for a very short time.

LOL that was easy to stop him, u just had to w8 for specific moment to put cc, or just boon reap his stabil. Atm u can’t play meele at all so that wasn;t just some nerf, it totally destryed meele in this game and it is now like all otehr mmos where u just range bomb and send meele to play pve. Actully u probably don’t even play meele in blbo fights. U can’t use stab as break stun – u shoudl use shout instead. Why? Cos then u lose stab and die instatnly at any range cc – stabil have 40 sec cd for warrior. Also 5 stacks is not even close to enough. U lose them in no time against blobs – just imagine, 5 eles with statics and whole group is stopped, or 5 guardians with 5. skill at staff. The problem isn’t that u can’t spam stabil anymore( before pathc u couldn;t do that too) the problem is that stabil don’t do a kitten now. Nothing, just nothing, u could also run without stab cos why to put it on u for 0,00001 sec?

coglin.1867:

DemonNinja.1602:

The recent stability changes to the game have really made wvw open field fights not fun. I’m not saying that the way it was before was right, or that the new design is bad or wrong, but what I am saying is its not fun.

The provlem here is two fold in my opinion. First is that you are confusing subjective opinion with objective fact. Secondly is you state your opinion as if it were fact. I, personally, find the changes, to have greatly expanded my fun when it comes to fights, open field or otherwise. By the way, why did you make an entirely new thread simply for your opinon, instead of posting in one of the ongoing threads that already exist?

What class u play? Meele? I bet u don’t The point is that meele don’t have fun at all and fights are over over long….

Kasteros.9847:

Nothing, just nothing, u could also run without stab cos why to put it on u for 0,00001 sec?

Thats kinda where some of us are at. Before we used to make groups so that guards could support other classes with SYG and Virtue traited stability. Now we group guards together so they can stack stab high enough to matter at all and the rest of us either need to use personal stab(if your class is lucky enough to have one that doesn’t suck) or just run with out it and hope you can live long enough stun break after it hits you.

My thoughts on the new stability changes in WvW are, skill kittening lag. GG. The end.

Kasteros.9847:

coglin.1867:

DemonNinja.1602:

The recent stability changes to the game have really made wvw open field fights not fun. I’m not saying that the way it was before was right, or that the new design is bad or wrong, but what I am saying is its not fun.

The provlem here is two fold in my opinion. First is that you are confusing subjective opinion with objective fact. Secondly is you state your opinion as if it were fact. I, personally, find the changes, to have greatly expanded my fun when it comes to fights, open field or otherwise. By the way, why did you make an entirely new thread simply for your opinon, instead of posting in one of the ongoing threads that already exist?

What class u play? Meele? I bet u don’t The point is that meele don’t have fun at all and fights are over over long….

You appear to confuse subjective opinion with objective fact. You also appear to be a poor judge for making wagers. I both play melee, and have a great deal of fun.

You really take away from your own argument when you post in such a declarative manner, and force your opinion on other in such a disingenuous manner. It is probably not very wise for you to declare what is or is not fun for others, and stick to speaking for yourself.

The reason for this change is simple: They wanted to encourage more defensive game play. The old meta was about blitzkrieg style attacks and extreme AOE burst that would end fights fast. They’ve said many times they want to encourage players to defend what they take and not just have it be a constant attack. You can see this with the new map design as well, where they are introducing tons of benefits for defenders. By making CC stronger than Stability (since there’s an extreme amount more CC than current Stability stacks give) they accomplish this by forcing a ranged meta that is vastly slower in combat and encourages defensive tactics.

Personally I feel they went too far in the opposite direction from where it was. They really underestimated the amount of CC in their game and now the game encourages larger blobs because it will give the blob larger access to more CC to render Stability useless.

The simplest and lightest touch solution is to first look at CC’s with unlimited capability to CC people. For example Static Field, Line of Warding, Slick Shoes, Spectral Wall, etc all should have a 5 target cap added just most other AOEs in the game. They affect 5 targets, be it remove a Stability stack or actually knock em down, and after 5 they dissipate. This doesn’t make CC’s worthless because they still affect a good number of targets. This doesn’t make Stability overpowered because it’s still limited stacks that can be stripped through their limited uses. If this still isn’t enough, then other light touch changes should be made until the system is balanced.

Justifying the new system as good simply because it’s different is a poor argument. We should be expecting improvements, not something different but worse. Justifying the new system as good because it opens up other classes is also a poor argument. Those classes should get tweaked rather than change a whole system to suit a few classes. Not sure why people are willing to accept a worse over all system that is only going to get even worse when the new HOT BL maps full of choke points are introduced.

coglin.1867:

Kasteros.9847:

coglin.1867:

DemonNinja.1602:

The recent stability changes to the game have really made wvw open field fights not fun. I’m not saying that the way it was before was right, or that the new design is bad or wrong, but what I am saying is its not fun.

The provlem here is two fold in my opinion. First is that you are confusing subjective opinion with objective fact. Secondly is you state your opinion as if it were fact. I, personally, find the changes, to have greatly expanded my fun when it comes to fights, open field or otherwise. By the way, why did you make an entirely new thread simply for your opinon, instead of posting in one of the ongoing threads that already exist?

What class u play? Meele? I bet u don’t The point is that meele don’t have fun at all and fights are over over long….

You appear to confuse subjective opinion with objective fact. You also appear to be a poor judge for making wagers. I both play melee, and have a great deal of fun.

You really take away from your own argument when you post in such a declarative manner, and force your opinion on other in such a disingenuous manner. It is probably not very wise for you to declare what is or is not fun for others, and stick to speaking for yourself.

Nah i write what i see at map / say chat, ts3 and borderlands so it isn’t only my opinion and almost whole meele declare now that it is no fun anymore to play warrior and lot of ppl swap to guardians. Idk how u, but I’m very active wvw and community player that know lot of ppl. U declared that u play meele? Guardian? Or Warrior? Cos the point is that Warriors are useless now in compare to Guardians, but try to imagine fights without warirors no fury, no blasts, no banners for downed, pretty funny So they should either buff stabil to more stacks( what? Ppl will still be able to get rid of it and no1 will complain abotu not a chnace to stop warrior) and give meele a chance to fight in meele range. Yesterday we had very long fight – over 40 mins, and u know how many times we pushed into meele? Once, after comm go bomb he stayed away with his staff and never agian rushed in. After that i swapped to guardian and probably quit playing warrior, since he can’t do anything in blobs now

Kasteros.9847:

coglin.1867:

DemonNinja.1602:

The recent stability changes to the game have really made wvw open field fights not fun. I’m not saying that the way it was before was right, or that the new design is bad or wrong, but what I am saying is its not fun.

The provlem here is two fold in my opinion. First is that you are confusing subjective opinion with objective fact. Secondly is you state your opinion as if it were fact. I, personally, find the changes, to have greatly expanded my fun when it comes to fights, open field or otherwise. By the way, why did you make an entirely new thread simply for your opinon, instead of posting in one of the ongoing threads that already exist?

What class u play? Meele? I bet u don’t The point is that meele don’t have fun at all and fights are over over long….

I play melee. I have fun. I still kill people.

@ Peterson.8345

Melee as in War the only all in melee was unstoppable in many ways due to being immune to both soft and hard cc when they applied effects on them self to the point of silliness. As for the other most pt with these wars in them had more then one guard making these 5-8 sec (o longer) stab on 24-30 sec cd become more unlimited due to use and some level of timing. Where the hard cc lines ones the main one that ppl are talking about are on 32-40 sec cd with 3-5 sec duration. For the effect to even work ppl must walk though them for stab to work ppl just need to be near the ppl using the effects.

Well ya that what it means to be a ranges and that what it means for a melee to get on a ranges and should but in no way should a melee just simply become immune to every thing the ranges dose. If that was the case why cant the ranges simply become immune to every the melee dose to get in melee ranges?

Nearly all stab are stunbreakers. And you can make some of the some of the stab into stunbreakers if you build them right. Focus not a stab lol and your showing your self getting mixed up with invariability and immunity as very different things and the old stab was so close to invariability that it was an easy error to make. 2 of the 3 stab guards have could be stunbreakers but also look at other stab ability from other classes (gurd is not the only class with stab).

No you do not have to pop stab before you attk unless you know your going to run over lines and at the end of the day you can chose to wait out these lines (its funny to guards are countering guards becuse they are the ones making the strongest lines) if you chose to walk into other ppl ability so be it but its like jumping on to some ones sword. Your way better off using stab reactivity then using it as an passively tool.

Now there no free pass there was a free pass for the stab abitly becuse the classes that used hard cc had no real way to boon strip (the only conter to the old stab.) Giving the classes the best stab the best abitly to ignore every type of hard cc in the game.

My views are in line with reality of things ppl who feel that WvW should be made for 15 vs 15 and balanced arone that are fooling them self at every level. Ppl who think WvW can be balanced at all are also tricking them self due to how open wvw is to even start to balance it beyond making towers keep camp the same for all side but more class balance is imposable with out making a new game.

You see what you want to see and you only want to hear from ppl who share your own views this is not what you should look for on the forums. You should not look for this in any point of your life i mean what the point of hearing your own ideals over and over?

Tibstrike.2974:

Kasteros.9847:

coglin.1867:

DemonNinja.1602:

The recent stability changes to the game have really made wvw open field fights not fun. I’m not saying that the way it was before was right, or that the new design is bad or wrong, but what I am saying is its not fun.

The provlem here is two fold in my opinion. First is that you are confusing subjective opinion with objective fact. Secondly is you state your opinion as if it were fact. I, personally, find the changes, to have greatly expanded my fun when it comes to fights, open field or otherwise. By the way, why did you make an entirely new thread simply for your opinon, instead of posting in one of the ongoing threads that already exist?

What class u play? Meele? I bet u don’t The point is that meele don’t have fun at all and fights are over over long….

I play melee. I have fun. I still kill people.

Guardian or Warrior? Cos i meant mostly Warrior there, since they can’t range bomb and it is boring to w8 and w8 for comm’s engage.

DemonNinja.1602:

At the end of the day this is a perfect example of the developers continuing trend to not listen to the WvW community.

I’m not a huge fan of the devs, but to say they didn’t listen and respond is simply wrong. For example, it’s obvious that the new map is made with a lot of CDI feedback in mind.

DemonNinja.1602:

In conclusion, WvW just is not fun anymore. People just circle each other for a while, casters trying to cast on the enemies, then one group makes a move and the other dodges out. Repeat, until one group lands a CC or the other group gets bored and pushed and then people melt. The end. There really aren’t any tactics anymore. It is very disappointing.

My experience differs from yours. I haven’t seen this at all.

Having said this, the stability change seems … peculiar, random and out-of-the-blue. It’s not terrible, but I don’t understand the need for it. It seems like it was a waste of resources, to me.

Kasteros.9847:

coglin.1867:

Kasteros.9847:

coglin.1867:

DemonNinja.1602:

The recent stability changes to the game have really made wvw open field fights not fun. I’m not saying that the way it was before was right, or that the new design is bad or wrong, but what I am saying is its not fun.

The provlem here is two fold in my opinion. First is that you are confusing subjective opinion with objective fact. Secondly is you state your opinion as if it were fact. I, personally, find the changes, to have greatly expanded my fun when it comes to fights, open field or otherwise. By the way, why did you make an entirely new thread simply for your opinon, instead of posting in one of the ongoing threads that already exist?

What class u play? Meele? I bet u don’t The point is that meele don’t have fun at all and fights are over over long….

You appear to confuse subjective opinion with objective fact. You also appear to be a poor judge for making wagers. I both play melee, and have a great deal of fun.

You really take away from your own argument when you post in such a declarative manner, and force your opinion on other in such a disingenuous manner. It is probably not very wise for you to declare what is or is not fun for others, and stick to speaking for yourself.

Nah i write what i see at map / say chat, ts3 and borderlands so it isn’t only my opinion and almost whole meele declare now that it is no fun anymore to play warrior and lot of ppl swap to guardians. Idk how u, but I’m very active wvw and community player that know lot of ppl. U declared that u play meele? Guardian? Or Warrior? Cos the point is that Warriors are useless now in compare to Guardians, but try to imagine fights without warirors no fury, no blasts, no banners for downed, pretty funny So they should either buff stabil to more stacks( what? Ppl will still be able to get rid of it and no1 will complain abotu not a chnace to stop warrior) and give meele a chance to fight in meele range. Yesterday we had very long fight – over 40 mins, and u know how many times we pushed into meele? Once, after comm go bomb he stayed away with his staff and never agian rushed in. After that i swapped to guardian and probably quit playing warrior, since he can’t do anything in blobs now

Yeah it actually is only the opinion of you.

Unless you can provide us with screenshots of the map and say chat, you are doing nothing more then dishonestly claiming to speak for other players. That in itself, is evidence that you feel you need to disingenuously claim to speak for others to add false weight to your point. If you believed in your point, you would not make effort to misrepresent weight to it.

Kasteros.9847:

Tibstrike.2974:

Kasteros.9847:

coglin.1867:

DemonNinja.1602:

The recent stability changes to the game have really made wvw open field fights not fun. I’m not saying that the way it was before was right, or that the new design is bad or wrong, but what I am saying is its not fun.

The provlem here is two fold in my opinion. First is that you are confusing subjective opinion with objective fact. Secondly is you state your opinion as if it were fact. I, personally, find the changes, to have greatly expanded my fun when it comes to fights, open field or otherwise. By the way, why did you make an entirely new thread simply for your opinon, instead of posting in one of the ongoing threads that already exist?

What class u play? Meele? I bet u don’t The point is that meele don’t have fun at all and fights are over over long….

I play melee. I have fun. I still kill people.

Guardian or Warrior? Cos i meant mostly Warrior there, since they can’t range bomb and it is boring to w8 and w8 for comm’s engage.

It doesn’t matter. I play melee and still have fun. And the fights are about the same length as usual.

The Hot Pre Beta looks like the melee-train get its track or at least a good road back in HoT.
However, I do not believe that 6s stabie with 5s cool down will stay like that.

Kasteros.9847:

Tibstrike.2974:

Kasteros.9847:

coglin.1867:

DemonNinja.1602:

The recent stability changes to the game have really made wvw open field fights not fun. I’m not saying that the way it was before was right, or that the new design is bad or wrong, but what I am saying is its not fun.

The provlem here is two fold in my opinion. First is that you are confusing subjective opinion with objective fact. Secondly is you state your opinion as if it were fact. I, personally, find the changes, to have greatly expanded my fun when it comes to fights, open field or otherwise. By the way, why did you make an entirely new thread simply for your opinon, instead of posting in one of the ongoing threads that already exist?

What class u play? Meele? I bet u don’t The point is that meele don’t have fun at all and fights are over over long….

I play melee. I have fun. I still kill people.

Guardian or Warrior? Cos i meant mostly Warrior there, since they can’t range bomb and it is boring to w8 and w8 for comm’s engage.

kitten warriors, its all about engis now. git gud or git out!

Dayra.7405:

The Hot Pre Beta looks like the melee-train get its track or at least a good road back in HoT.
However, I do not believe that 6s stabie with 5s cool down will stay like that.

Thew new buff resistances alone will make melee unstoppable and make back line super weak. There are a lot more soft cc then hard cc that keeps the back line alive.