Ok but let’s say the map is capped because someone’s built useless siege. The tower you’re defending is empty. Because the map is capped, you can’t even put down a single ac. And that’s locked in for three hours now. Plenty of time for an enemy team to roll an entire map, not just one tower. Just how long do you think you’ll be able to hold off a tier 1 Zerg with zero siege?
Remember, you cannot stop a teammate from using any supply on a map, or building siege. You can yell at them all you want. They’ll just ignore you. That’s how it was in the past.
the map is capped because someone built useless siege? I don’t think I have ever seen that. I have seen badly placed siege. I have seen blueprints wasted when no suppy was supplied in time. But being capped by useless siege is way down the list of the problems I have seen in WvW.
As I’ve said numerous times. Ask an old timer TC player about Fascinating Gift.
The troll siege cap was how it was in the past. The one hour siege refresh essentially quashed that.
A three hour refresh timer will see a resurgence in this behaviour and effectively render you impotent to defend at all.
That said. Gosh, really going to bow out of this thread now because it appears you can’t seem to understand the implications. And we keep circling the same discussion without the lightbulb going off.
I dont see how some arbitrary 1 or 3 hr limit to siege expiration is going to make that much difference to anything but a biological unit like me, but whatever.
Please, I would prefer more time to tick siege, and I think it would improve the game to have a little more time to tick siege.
garbage. Any guild is going to have a hard time getting people to tick siege every 3 hrs. All yer trebs are disappear, every night, one hour or three. Try it and see.
Trebs are going to disappear. But the 5 ballistas some troll built on top of the supply depot are going to stay all week. And they’re going to count towards the siege cap, so you can’t build as much useful siege. That’s what Jayne is talking about.
A modest increase to, say, 90 mins, would probably be ok. It’d basically allow you to refresh every hour, rather than every 30-50 mins.
Make it 90 minutes. Long enough to forget about it so it will despawn anyway. But also long enough that you don’t feel you have to constantly run around tagging things.
The current seige timer works everywhere but EB.
In the BL’s people actually care, as well there are generally fewer objectives to seige up and keep seiged.
But in EB, you tend to get more PuG’s which tend not to know or care about seige.
I’ve spent 6 hours refreshing seige there, gone to go do a 1 hour guild run on the BL’s only to come back and find every single bit of seige has despawned. I was cursing in chat so hard lol.
I just dont think most people realize how important keeping those seiges refreshed is, or they dont care. A properly seiged tower can be defended by 1 person. As well, there often isnt enough time to flash build a few AC"s to defend, especially if your the only person there.
The current seige timer works everywhere but EB.
In the BL’s people actually care, as well there are generally fewer objectives to seige up and keep seiged.
But in EB, you tend to get more PuG’s which tend not to know or care about seige.
I’ve spent 6 hours refreshing seige there, gone to go do a 1 hour guild run on the BL’s only to come back and find every single bit of seige has despawned. I was cursing in chat so hard lol.
I just dont think most people realize how important keeping those seiges refreshed is, or they dont care. A properly seiged tower can be defended by 1 person. As well, there often isnt enough time to flash build a few AC"s to defend, especially if your the only person there.
The problem is that you’re blaming the pugs, while it isn’t fun to argue with ourselves at some point we have to realize that while we might be willing to refresh siege (even if we aren’t the ones who put it there) we can’t expect the same thing from fair-weathers.
I’d rather get stomped down by T1 servers with the T9 population than sit at a keep staring at siege for 6 hours… Yet every Friday I get stuck in a different tower doing just that. I wouldn’t ask that of the devil himself so why would I expect an up-level or a PvE fair weather to do it?
However I do feel the siege could use a revamp anyhow. For example Flame Rams: I don’t know of any rams that are really useful for more than maybe 10 minutes (when they’re not being used). Especially once you take something with it they just sit there as obstacles for whoever comes to take it back from you, why not give rams 30 minutes and give the arrow carts and Ballista the extra 30 minutes (Ha, who actually refreshes the ballista =) )
“A conquered people will always resist you,
Edair. But allies-allies will fight by your side”~Cobiah Mariner
I love how 90% of this post is between 3 people essentially xD
On topic: I feel that siege could use a slight timer buff, maybe 1 hour 30 minutes, no longer. Putting simply 2 hours will make people want to abuse it. I still dont understand how people sit online all day simply grieving a server. Like dude, did you seriously get that angry over a few wipes or something to spend the next week of your life pressing F essentially.
I love how 90% of this post is between 3 people essentially xD
On topic: I feel that siege could use a slight timer buff, maybe 1 hour 30 minutes, no longer. Putting simply 2 hours will make people want to abuse it. I still dont understand how people sit online all day simply grieving a server. Like dude, did you seriously get that angry over a few wipes or something to spend the next week of your life pressing F essentially.
It’s not really the people who get wiped it’s the people who get sent over from other servers who act as spies, if the siege limit would allow them to block people from using siege then it might be reasonably affordable (for a server/large guild) to invest the money (and person) during the off hours to waste supply and take up siege space so that when prime-time rolls around they can still storm in and take important places like SM or keeps.
However rare that currently may be, the reason people are so concerned with the idea is because it did happen in the past. Although I’ve not seen a total blockage I have seen people putting up dozens of flam rams up in EB keeps.
(Course to be fair in entirety my server has capped Golems before on many occasions most notably)
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“A conquered people will always resist you,
Edair. But allies-allies will fight by your side”~Cobiah Mariner
Honestly, I have never seen siege abused this way. There has never been enough suppy for a spy to siege cap before the actual team members. In fact, there is almost never enough supply for anybody to exceed siege capacity. It just does not happen.
The worst abuse of supply and siege I have seen is by our own commanders gearing up for a golem run.
I remember a troll fill up the keep with tons of balista on NSP once. We fought for 5 days without being able to use siege. This is why we can’t have nice things.
Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
Siege owner should be able to get a longer timer. Or maybe all siege he placed should be permanently up as long as he is online. After he leaves a timer starts.
Edit:
Against trolls just make – like in another thread suggested: Siege cap per peson. And maybe like: 1 golem per person, 2 trebs per person, 4 catapults, 8 ballista, 16 arrow cart – ram then lower again. And maybe a max cap of 10(he can place for example 2 catapults, 8 ballista and no more other siege).
Would need more persons for golem rush to place blueprints but that is good(everyone getting golems from JP and taking away the cost from the commander).
Trolls would need more than 1 person to troll.
Without that they’ll still troll. Even without a longer timer. They just ran around and tap it to keep it alive. I know this from some videos.
Other idea would be to just remove the “free siege placement” and add fixed siege points. And only let useful siege be placed there. No ballista in front of a gate. Rams only in front of a gate.
Need an interactive map of a tower/keep placed at the Quartermasters which shows all placed siege. For a small fee all siege will be refreshed by the QM.
I mean really now, we have WORKERS in those places that should be able to keep the stuff refreshed, especially on a fully upgraded keep. What are we paying those guys to do once everything is built? Step on their union a bit and put the bums to work!
I would love to see siege last infinitely, but cost 1 ppt per siege for the teams that have it built inside a tower/keep.
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Because censorship is the most important part of the MMO business.
Increasing the timer would be a bonus to gameplay far more than a hinderance.
The argument seems to be that a troll will simply build siege and siege cap the server. That’s never really been a problem, and if somebody wanted to do it, they can do it now anyways. Trolls can come in and build useless trebs in keeps to waste the 1700 supply now, but they don’t. Or build 50 ballistas in a keep, but they don’t.
There may have been a few instances in the past of it happening, but it’s very rare.
On the other hand, siege disappearing after an hour affects hundreds of people every day. Lots of people put a lot of work into placing and building siege. It can take a long time to build some siege and having it in place is important when attacks happen. It’s already hard enough to defend with the siege masteries and superior blueprints nowadays. Having all the siege disappear after an hour is a kick in the midsection.
Maybe more players would be willing to play defense and help siege if all that work didn’t go to waste in 60 mins.
I play on a very populous server and I can count the times on one hand the amount of times we’ve been siege capped in the past year. The times we have siege capped a map were times we owned most of the map so defense was hardly an issue.
Running around ticking siege every few hours isn’t so bad, having to do it every 60 minutes is annoying and not a FUN part of the game.
Please increase the timer to 2 or 3 hours, or more.
Defense shouldn’t just be running your Zerg to the attack point before the walls or gates go down because all the siege has disappeared.
Also, people shouldn’t have to stay back to refresh keeps and towers, not enjoying the game because of a silly mechanic. Some of it is scouting, but a large part of it is just ensuring siege doesn’t disappear.
Increasing the timer would be a bonus to gameplay far more than a hinderance.
The argument seems to be that a troll will simply build siege and siege cap the server. That’s never really been a problem, and if somebody wanted to do it, they can do it now anyways. Trolls can come in and build useless trebs in keeps to waste the 1700 supply now, but they don’t. Or build 50 ballistas in a keep, but they don’t.
There may have been a few instances in the past of it happening, but it’s very rare.
It was far from very rare back in the days though. It happened more or less daily.
Increasing the timer would be a bonus to gameplay far more than a hinderance.
The argument seems to be that a troll will simply build siege and siege cap the server. That’s never really been a problem, and if somebody wanted to do it, they can do it now anyways. Trolls can come in and build useless trebs in keeps to waste the 1700 supply now, but they don’t. Or build 50 ballistas in a keep, but they don’t.
There may have been a few instances in the past of it happening, but it’s very rare.
It was far from very rare back in the days though. It happened more or less daily.
When transfers were free.
Like I said, the trolling could be occurring now, but it doesn’t happen except in extremely rare cases. In which case the person would troll regardless of whether there was a 60 min, or a 180 min refresh cycle.
If it’s easier for you to maintain several towers and keep’s worth of siege if the timer is increased to 2-3 hours, imagine how easy it will be for the griefer.
Don’t forget about proximity caps too at key points. Can only place five near each other before you cannot place anymore.
As for more people willing to suddenly play defense if the timers were increased, lol, you know that’s not true.
yeah, as if walking dolyaks is quick or easy. Walking dolyaks to get enough supply to build a treb will make you cry, guaranteed.
you will get 3 or 4 dolyaks per camp flip on average, and bless you if you waste your gold upgrading the camp. It won’t last, and the zerg will not help you except on accident as they pass by to their next conquest.
almost no one walks yaks. almost no one ticks siege. It isnt that hard to avoid ticking the garbage siege. I never tick golems, for example. Golems are pretty much all troll siege as far as I am concerned.
Against trolls just make – like in another thread suggested: Siege cap per peson. And maybe like: 1 golem per person, 2 trebs per person, 4 catapults, 8 ballista, 16 arrow cart – ram then lower again. And maybe a max cap of 10(he can place for example 2 catapults, 8 ballista and no more other siege).
Would need more persons for golem rush to place blueprints but that is good(everyone getting golems from JP and taking away the cost from the commander).
Sadly though it wouldn’t decrease the cost to the commander, most commanders get their siege from people, and they could easily just return the siege as they needed it put down. Plus a lot of commanders like to have near-total control on siege placement (which is probably why there is so much complaint about the breaking doors and walls achievement)
Side note
Don’t forget guys, you can always buy your siege from the TP or with badges…
And every time you buy the siege on the TP you’re filling some weapon dealer’s pocket… Most notably me, and my commander tag thanks you for its creation. (Seriously though if they made siege last indefinitely I would be broke and my market would crash)
“A conquered people will always resist you,
Edair. But allies-allies will fight by your side”~Cobiah Mariner
Side note
Don’t forget guys, you can always buy your siege from the TP or with badges…
And every time you buy the siege on the TP you’re filling some weapon dealer’s pocket… Most notably me, and my commander tag thanks you for its creation. (Seriously though if they made siege last indefinitely I would be broke and my market would crash)
If I understood right you get siege from other players because of your commander tag, and then sell them on TP? Well… that’s… sick.
Anyhow, back to topic. I agree that the decay timer should NOT be increased, because of the trolling. Not really because of the cap on the map, but because of the 5 siege vicinity counter. It’s not that hard to build 5 useless ballistas (which cost like 1 silver each in TP). close to a gate making defenders unable to place any defensive Arrow Carts on that gate. Waiting 1 hour for the troll ballistas to disappear is doable, but 3 hours or even 2 hours, is just too long.
And you asked how the troll have patience to do this all day? Well, they don’t do it all day. They come in when the server they want to help are having big events and start to troll, making the enemy servers life a lot easier.
A Pink scumbag of [FACE] and deep inside a [GuM]ster
Mouggari – Warrior – Candy cane Avenger
Side note
Don’t forget guys, you can always buy your siege from the TP or with badges…
And every time you buy the siege on the TP you’re filling some weapon dealer’s pocket… Most notably me, and my commander tag thanks you for its creation. (Seriously though if they made siege last indefinitely I would be broke and my market would crash)
If I understood right you get siege from other players because of your commander tag, and then sell them on TP? Well… that’s… sick.
Anyhow, back to topic. I agree that the decay timer should NOT be increased, because of the trolling. Not really because of the cap on the map, but because of the 5 siege vicinity counter. It’s not that hard to build 5 useless ballistas (which cost like 1 silver each in TP). close to a gate making defenders unable to place any defensive Arrow Carts on that gate. Waiting 1 hour for the troll ballistas to disappear is doable, but 3 hours or even 2 hours, is just too long.
And you asked how the troll have patience to do this all day? Well, they don’t do it all day. They come in when the server they want to help are having big events and start to troll, making the enemy servers life a lot easier.
No, I haven’t sold siege since I got my tag, But I made the money to buy my tag from flipping superior siege on the Market (maybe should have clarified)
Edit: I’ve also never collected siege from anyone while I had my tag on, or as a commander in any shape or form
“A conquered people will always resist you,
Edair. But allies-allies will fight by your side”~Cobiah Mariner
