Guild Wars 2

As I look at the scores the other 3 tiers seem pretty evenly matched. I am hoping with the next link our tier is also more evenly balanced.

The solution is better server pairing. Anyone could see after the first day that CD quad server alliance was too strong for the rest of tier 4.

Yeah, honestly, all the wailing and weeping over T4 existing is kind of…. mind-boggling. It was a questionable set of server links, exacerbated in multiple ways by the fact that server transfers are a thing. We don’t know for sure the exact reason why the questionable linkages were made in the first place — outdated information, or perhaps they were perfectly reasonable at first but player behavior/presence changed too quickly, or what — but the “solution” is a more balanced set of links. There, T4 saved.

The first week of the quad server, triple server and duo server pairing was a blow out so even if it was old data they could have easily changed it that next week when they swapped the dh pairing. At this point though, I am not sure that T4 is worth having. And I think they really need to look at their population formula because there seems to be a big flaw in it.

Unlink and Relink. IMO the Linking system should be tied to ongoing imbalances in scoring. It isn’t perfect but would prevent weeks of servers just getting run over. When they do land on a rotation that is better balanced it would stay longer.

Wait out this dreadful matchup, cut your losses and the next time someone says the 1st place server shouldn’t have a partner, beat them with a stick! Oh, and if it’s obvious after a week that 1 servers final score is equal to the combination of the other 2 servers final score, then that server is paired wrong or in the wrong tier and that should be resolved ASAP rather than 5 weeks later.

ThroPut CD back in T4 then delete it and and all the linkings followed by a what they should have done, server merges.

T4 isn’t going to get any better regardless of who the third server is, judging by how CD is getting rekt in T3 and SBI won T3, it’s only fitting/fair that they should be part of the delete.

The reality is CD does not deserve to be where it is, they were placed there, manually adjusted which was wrong on Anets part. They literally threw a healthy server into a dying matchup so a dying servers could get steam rolled in a tier it did not earn which is quite apparent from the current scoring. The quad server should have never happened, we all know this, it was common sense and every player in NA was smart enough to see this was an error. Anet dropped the ball and as usual the community is paying for their ignorance.

The problem this time was stacking CD with extra servers in T4 and then leaving them stacked for weeks. They should have moved a couple servers off of CD into other matches after the first or second week.

Nuzt.7894:

T4 isn’t going to get any better regardless of who the third server is, judging by how CD ids getting rekt in T3 and SBI won T3, it’s only fitting/fair that they should be part of the delete.

CD is not getting “rekt” in T3. It took both servers double teaming for two straight days at the end of last week to barely put them in 3rd place. CD was battling for 1st place over that weekend and was in 2nd place all week until hours before the match ended.

Crystal Desert: 323,499
Yak’s Bend: 325,933
Sea of Sorrows: 355,111

SoS and YB have continued focusing CD this week and CD is still fighting through it making for one of the more competitive tiers.

Of course they are, everyone is double teamed when they are losing, didn’t you know? It was more competitive when the first place server was in that tier, I’ll also point out its taking 4 servers to even have a chance, instead of you know, 2 or 1 server. When they relink and CD loses the quad server CD will drop like a rock.

Don’t be so blind to the illusion Anet created for CD.

Obviously we’re talking about all four servers at once under the label “CD”. No one is talking about literally just CD on its own, lol.

I am finally getting the big picture. it isn’t about buffing or nerfing siege, buffing or nerfing player builds etc. if you have enough people, none of that matters. I wouldn’t be surprised to see tier 4 get dissolved into the upper three tiers.

Regarding SoS/YB vs. CD, I’ve seen it. I have a video of it. YB held SMC and briefly before the reset last week, CD grabbed it (I believe we lost it again just before reset). We owned (mostly) the south corridor. We fought YB in the NW corridor and SoS in the NE corridor. Did YB/SoS fight each other? Nope.

I’ve also seen, but don’t have a video for, YB and SoS grabbing the CD towers on either side of the CD EBG keep.

If it isn’t coordinated, they’re certainly making it strongly feel like it is.

Ni In, that kind of thing doesn’t have to be coordinated. You see one of your enemies is besieging the other enemy, you of course try to take advantage of the situation. You could ask why SoS isn’t going after YB’s undefended assets in that situation or vice versa, sure, but I’ve certainly seen them go after each other as well.

And to be honest, any big SMC fight is kind of weak as evidence for coordinated 2v1 — SMC is such a high-value target that if inner is breached during primetime, it’s hardly a surprise that both of the other factions will want to make a play for it.

Not to screw up the t4 server links next time maybe.

They placed a t3 linking in t4 which forced them to mess with glicko to get the monster out of t4…. only to be replaced with another t3 monster in t4. t4 has been a mess now for almost 4 months.

Either

• Do the server links properly for those servers within their tiers. In other words make sure there’s 3 t4 sized servers in t4, 3 t3 servers in t3 and so on.
• Make the population of servers relatively closer to the tier next to them t1/2, t3/4 closer to each other. Instead of giving t3 servers fatter servers as links, use the smaller ones to bring them closer to t4 sizes. (for example instead of sbi/hod, maybe sbi/ehmry would have been better?)
• Fix the glicko wall with a soft glicko reset.
• If you can’t get links working properly, then do the hard merge and get it over with, let players sort out the bandwagons afterwards.

They need to relink and do a better job of balancing. Anet has all the statistics of coverage, population, wvw participation. I’m sure they can find a formula to better balance the server linkings. They also need to close T1 servers (which they are now). Make it harder for guilds to stack tiers & servers. But really it’s on us. We can complain about dead tiers and blame anet but really it’s because we stack the top servers and tiers. If guilds were more willing to spread out between tiers and servers we wouldnt have these issues. Guilds need to stop bandwagoning to servers like DB or TC or Mag. Go somewhere that needs guilds and help rebuild some of these servers. People complain about lack of fights, but then all stack into the same server. Anet might as well make it 2 tiers at this point or at least combine T3 & T4 and make it 3 tiers

Jeknar.6184:

Red Owl.5649:

and this site flooded with crycry threads.

It’s already flooded with SBI tears of being on T4 anyway…

Of course it is, everyone is well aware of what happens to servers that get tossed down the crapper to T4 (or T8 before linking), regardless of server health, SBI will die a slow death because even winning nets you negative rating. SBI endured the Mag blobs, once Mag moved up SBI started picking up traction and was doing quite well. There is nothing more demoralizing then coming in first only to be thrown into this cesspool of boredom which really is only SBI and SF because DH isn’t even a thing. T4/T8 is where servers should go to die when they can’t compete in the other tiers, this was not the case at all. Anet already manually adjust CD who by all intents and purposes was where it belonged and only became an issue because of poor linking choices. I see no reason why SBI should not be moved up manually this reset to where we belong, servers from other tiers should not be being punished for Anets lack of attention in regards to linking.

So you basically saying that Anet should have left CD/SF/DH match last 2 months?

What Anets should have done is manually adjust the links in T4, but because they didn’t then yes, they should have left it as it was. T3 was a decent match up, YB could have used a few more people but aside from that, all three of the T3 servers were relatively close as far as competition. It’s not fair to T4, I don’t deny that but that is on Anet not SBI.

Nuzt.7894:

What Anets should have done is manually adjust the links in T4, but because they didn’t then yes, they should have left it as it was. T3 was a decent match up, YB could have used a few more people but aside from that, all three of the T3 servers were relatively close as far as competition. It’s not fair to T4, I don’t deny that but that is on Anet not SBI.

Still, it couldn’t have stayed that way no matter what. For DH, the match-up was beyond farcically unfair. You think your current match-up in T3 is bad yet you still somewhat advocate for what was way worse when you were crushing us in T4 without any hope to be opposed? :/

As someone who played on CD (KN, actually), the CD + DH fight was completely unfair to DH. It was a faceroll. SF was somewhat more fair, but not by much. SF was best at simply defending their keep using siege, but not much else. Even night capping went in CD’s favor.

Now that CD is in T3, we’ve either got fair-weather WvW players so our participation has dropped off, or we’re just not quite good enough for T3, I’m not sure which (although last weeks score was close, this week looks to be a blow out).

No offence but DH is a non factor, T4 is literally SF vs SBI with all 4 DH players as cheerleaders. No matter how we spin it, this latest linking was a complete disaster for T4 and should not have made it to live. You’re going to get destroyed by SBI/YB/SoS/or CD, CD is the server with the weakest population out of the 4. The only reason they are even scoring points in T3 is, once again, due to the poorly managed latest linking, even with 4 servers they are losing. All the excuses in the world do not change the fact that they are still losing a match that SBI came first in.

Sirbeaumerdier, you seem to be under the impression that Nuzt is in CD. Nuzt is in SBI and complaining about being in T4. Their criticism of the T3 matchup is “CD sucks, we should have had that spot”, not “T3 is unfairly crushing CD”.

Ni In, the fact that CD started out strongly suggests at least the involvement of the former factor, although of course it’s all speculation.

Tris Apollumenon.6435:

Sirbeaumerdier, you seem to be under the impression that Nuzt is in CD. Nuzt is in SBI and complaining about being in T4. Their criticism of the T3 matchup is “CD sucks, we should have had that spot”, not “T3 is unfairly crushing CD”.

Ah, my apologies then.

Arena Net dropped the ball 3 times in this ragard:

1) Poor links without taking the shifts on population in consideration. Everyone pointed Darkhaven wasn’t even fit to be host to Ehmry Bay. Everyone pointed that Eredon Terrace and Kaineng had received people from being linked to a T1 server before. SF tri-link isn’t all that bad honestly since they look just as small as Dh+EBay.

2) The poor links showed it’s effects right in the first week. CD was far too big for it’s competition. However Arena Net didn’t do anything for 5 weeks. T4 (including CD) was much more populated than it is right now. Should CD have moved earlier, the outcome of that change would problably been different. But now everyone is pretty much gone to other servers or from the game as a whole.

3) If the artificial rating was actually used on the end of the match rating calculations, they wouldn’t get another server stuck in CD place as the T4 servers would have much more rating and not drain it just from being there. I said how dealt with a similar situation in the past on several threads including the one where they finally responded that they were giving T4 artificial rating. I pointed out this very problem after their decision, and yet it was ignored.

Honestly, the best they can do right now is to rotate YB/SoS one week in the T4 each as we still have 2 weeks of this poor link as it is entirely unfair to keep SBI stuck (as much as it was to CD) and then get the links right in the august 26th.

Tris Apollumenon.6435:

Sirbeaumerdier, you seem to be under the impression that Nuzt is in CD. Nuzt is in SBI and complaining about being in T4. Their criticism of the T3 matchup is “CD sucks, we should have had that spot”, not “T3 is unfairly crushing CD”.

CD does not suck but they do not belong in T3 is more accurate. You even have new responses confirming from a CD player that although T4 was unfair, CD isn’t pulling their weight in T3. As the server that came in first the week before we got dropped, yes we absolutely deserve to be there. If the following weeks we got dominated by YB and or SoS then perhaps we would have been deserving of the drop but I guess we won’t find out, we are already bleeding rating so even if they do move us back up the numbers put us below the others.

Well, it seemed obvious that pairing 4 servers together would be a disaster. Break off one and move it somewhere else.

ArchonWing.9480:

Well, it seemed obvious that pairing 4 servers together would be a disaster. Break off one and move it somewhere else.

They already stated they don’t won’t change links except every 2 months.

Jeknar.6184:

ArchonWing.9480:

Well, it seemed obvious that pairing 4 servers together would be a disaster. Break off one and move it somewhere else.

They already stated they don’t won’t change links except every 2 months.

It’s about time anyways.

Also, perhaps it needs to be more flexible. Emergency changes should be a thing if the situation really gets that bad. Setting things in black and white when things are still murky is unwise.

But didn’t they swap the pairings for DH like the 2nd week?

Alora Arrowstorm.1268:

But didn’t they swap the pairings for DH like the 2nd week?

huh, no? Dh+EBay been linked for 6 weeks now and the only new matchup we got is now that they manually changed CD rating.

ArchonWing.9480:

Jeknar.6184:

ArchonWing.9480:

Well, it seemed obvious that pairing 4 servers together would be a disaster. Break off one and move it somewhere else.

They already stated they don’t won’t change links except every 2 months.

It’s about time anyways.

Also, perhaps it needs to be more flexible. Emergency changes should be a thing if the situation really gets that bad. Setting things in black and white when things are still murky is unwise.

This would be a good solution, I still think if they had given DH the first or second most populated of the links with CD, YB the smallest of the links and let CD keep the last it would have been a lot more balanced. Maybe SF would have been out of whack at that point though.

Red Owl.5649:

CD focused? Sure, what about it? We all been focused hard before but not CD. CD can’t take it after 1 month of running over T4 solo roamers with a map blob I am right?

What started this line of topic was one guy saying CD is getting “rekt” in T3 and me pointing out that isn’t happening. I simply noted that CD would have been 2nd if not for a concentrated effort by SoS and YB at the end of the week. That isn’t QQ’ing, that is simply refuting the absurd “rekt” claim.

T3 is competitive even with some collusion. More to the point it doesn’t matter who they send down to T4 with these links as that server group will dominate it.

To answer your question, you are not right. Aside from jokes about how YB is servicing SoS for a dbl team, I have seen no QQing in map chat about it. Actually the server has been very positive except for some minor short lived commander map chat drama.

Lol, you guys think CD isn’t showing up? The t3 matchup has more CD guilds showing up than the t4 matchups. I’d venture to say the Wood League fairweathers are gone. but the other alliance server guilds cut their raids short or not showing up is more exact. But there are some that are still some trying to hang in there from the other servers. Those are the ones that are learning how to enjoy fights alot more and worry less about map politics and ninja ppt.

The 3 hour+ garrison defense by CD over the weekends was epic. Friday/Saturday YB/SOS alternating on our garrison from NA to Late NA was best fight’s we’ve had in a while. Not to mention the pushes on our EBG keep by both YB/SOS to force us to map hop.

The salty whispers to us about how we don’t belong here is priceless. Because they fear glicko might send them down to t4. People screaming collusion, we’re just lmfao every raid and hope you do collude. Better than chasing down a map blob humping SMC with max siege. The map politics is strong o YB/SOS.

Sat night garri pushes were a blast. We were thrilled you guys were fighting it out. /salute

Straegen.2938:

SoS and YB have continued focusing CD this week and CD is still fighting through it making for one of the more competitive tiers.

We generally just switch back and forth depending on who gets the most annoying. I suspect it’s much the same for CD and YB.

Nuzt.7894:

Of course they are, everyone is double teamed when they are losing, didn’t you know? It was more competitive when the first place server was in that tier, I’ll also point out its taking 4 servers to even have a chance, instead of you know, 2 or 1 server. When they relink and CD loses the quad server CD will drop like a rock.

Don’t be so blind to the illusion Anet created for CD.

Lol – yes Nuzt, that is how it works. Some people will refuse to see it though. CD was given a dose of magic fairy dust but at the end of the day will continue to lose. But don’t tell them that because, well, you know, those egos.

CD thinks they are going at it alone yet they have Kaineng, Eredon Terrace, and Borlis Pass players helping them. Sea of Sorrows is paired with Northern Shiverpeaks. And of course the mighty Yak’s Bend going it alone…

Honestly, give credit to Yak’s Bend for hanging in there. But you boys and girls on CD won’t I bet. Much like you felt all mighty and powerful when fighting DH and EB…

Has of 58 seconds ago I see this:
CD: 114 514
Yak’s: 132 176
SoS: 158 945

Trending is still showing SoS and Yak’s ahead. Barring the developers giving CD low yield nuclear weapons I’d say you are on course to lose again this week…but hey, if you feel you belong there why don’t you offer to go it alone like Yak’s and see how you fair.

We can’t be bagging on their system or favoritism of CD now can we?

Crapgame.6519:

CD thinks they are going at it alone yet they have Kaineng, Eredon Terrace, and Borlis Pass players helping them. Sea of Sorrows is paired with Northern Shiverpeaks. And of course the mighty Yak’s Bend going it alone…

When most say “CD” they are implying CD and the related linked servers. Same for SoS. YB cannot help it that they fell apart and fell very far in the rankings. I suspect the next linking they will get a partner. I don’t think any server in T3 should be crowing about how awesome their fighting skill is.

Most of the really good players left long ago leaving a handful of exceptional players and a lot of newer less experienced players.

The solution is kill all SBI and SF enemies.

That is your assignment son.

RodOfDeath.5247:

The solution is kill all SBI and SF enemies.

That is your assignment son.

To be fair, all 4 of them are trying. I dot a lot of respect for DH for not just up and quitting over the last few weeks. SF as well, though they do have considerably more to work with.

Nuzt.7894:

RodOfDeath.5247:

The solution is kill all SBI and SF enemies.

That is your assignment son.

To be fair, all 4 of them are trying. I dot a lot of respect for DH for not just up and quitting over the last few weeks. SF as well, though they do have considerably more to work with.

Yeah we do for the most part. I’m on ebay and it was kinda fun last night taking on a significant sized SBI group in our keep with a few Dbay guys.

I think the fighting spirit is there but the numbers are obviously lacking. Time to find my tank build lol

ArchonWing.9480:

Jeknar.6184:

ArchonWing.9480:

Well, it seemed obvious that pairing 4 servers together would be a disaster. Break off one and move it somewhere else.

They already stated they don’t won’t change links except every 2 months.

It’s about time anyways.

Also, perhaps it needs to be more flexible. Emergency changes should be a thing if the situation really gets that bad. Setting things in black and white when things are still murky is unwise.

They definitely need to be more flexible, they are losing players because of it.

Forum bug

Xenesis.6389:

Not to screw up the t4 server links next time maybe.

They placed a t3 linking in t4 which forced them to mess with glicko to get the monster out of t4…. only to be replaced with another t3 monster in t4. t4 has been a mess now for almost 4 months.

Either

• Do the server links properly for those servers within their tiers. In other words make sure there’s 3 t4 sized servers in t4, 3 t3 servers in t3 and so on.
• Make the population of servers relatively closer to the tier next to them t1/2, t3/4 closer to each other. Instead of giving t3 servers fatter servers as links, use the smaller ones to bring them closer to t4 sizes. (for example instead of sbi/hod, maybe sbi/ehmry would have been better?)
• Fix the glicko wall with a soft glicko reset.
• If you can’t get links working properly, then do the hard merge and get it over with, let players sort out the bandwagons afterwards.

1) would produce stagnant matches, which are as bad as blowouts. Because it’ll never be balanced and someone will end up in a bad stagnant match.

2) might be a solution. Part of the problem is the top servers are so populated that you can’t create 12 servers that are relatively balanced, no matter how many servers you link. So splitting it into T1/2 and T3/4 may work.

3) soft Glicko reset may be worth trying. It’ll produce crazy imbalanced matches but at least there will be variety. I think you’d need to pair it with some form of 1U1D to quickly get better matches.

4) a hard merge will work no better than linkings. In fact it would be worse. Because even if you could get perfect merges, in a month you’d have massive imbalance all over again – with no recourse for correction.

I’d say the best thing we can hope for is that Anet continues with the linkings but changes the way they do matchmaking. Glicko alone is terrible. You simply cannot leave servers in a stagnant terrible match for long. A server can deal with a bad match for a week, but if they don’t move out after dominating, or being dominated, then they will start getting demoralized and the situation just gets worse.

The most important thing Anet can do is: You’ve got to come up with some matchmaking system that switches out servers quickly if a domination situation occurs. Even if you have to do it manually. If they would have switched out CD, SBI, YB and SoS into and out of T4 on a weekly basis I think everyone would have been ok with that.

Solutions:

quit the server linking and let all the servers go back to where they belong in the list. Dead servers can fight dead servers.

Close the dead servers let them freely transfer to which ever server they want, except those with a rediculously high popularion, this way their communities can stay together.

Give full servers incentives to move to lower pop ones.

Any option just remove the linking is causing more crap than its worth

What do you guys think of creating a T5 tier? Maybe take Dbay vs SF vs a broken off CD server?

I guess it would help if anet was more transparent and provided average server participation. Ya know, statistics.

The solution is possibly a round robin system , delete the tiers and play everyone vs everyone.

Meanwhile reconsider the linking and transfers.

RodOfDeath.5247:

What do you guys think of creating a T5 tier? Maybe take Dbay vs SF vs a broken off CD server?

I guess it would help if anet was more transparent and provided average server participation. Ya know, statistics.

I think adding another Tier would be going in reverse. There’s already the issue of having a rounded population in T4, adding another Tier would do more harm then good imo.

growing pains in the linking system
same as what happened with T1 and DB+IoJ

Nuzt.7894:

RodOfDeath.5247:

What do you guys think of creating a T5 tier? Maybe take Dbay vs SF vs a broken off CD server?

I guess it would help if anet was more transparent and provided average server participation. Ya know, statistics.

I think adding another Tier would be going in reverse. There’s already the issue of having a rounded population in T4, adding another Tier would do more harm then good imo.

You’re probably right. At this point, I don’t think anything is really going to work. It’s just so messy I guess…..

Reh.5986:

Straegen.2938:

SoS and YB have continued focusing CD this week and CD is still fighting through it making for one of the more competitive tiers.

We generally just switch back and forth depending on who gets the most annoying. I suspect it’s much the same for CD and YB.

Pretty much this for SoS, we go out looking for things to do and just find the opposition in the objectives with more ACs than a provisioner.
You end up having to PPT when there aren’t any fights hopefully getting the opposition to come out and play.

Reset is pretty full on as it’s the weekend and I think all servers are fielding near full squads, later in the week once everyone is back at work or school the numbers drop back so it’s not unusual to see a drop in the scoring.

It was fun to see YB make a push on you guys last week though, we were pretty much thinking they were covering CDs backs rather than looking for a fight with CD.

I guess it’s all a matter of perspective depending on which server you are on.