Guild Wars 2

T8 NA (Kaineng)

Here’s a summary of my experience so far:

*Less upgrades are happening. Players are starting to realize that things are getting flipped much more often, so it’s not worth the cost.

*More scouting is happening. I have noticed more players speaking up in map chat and reporting on enemy movement. This is tough when you have maybe 5-10 players on the whole map, but people sure seem to be stepping up to scout!

*More offense (PvD and open-field fights) and less defense is happening.

*PPT seems a bit more even. Almost all day today that I was on, all 3 worlds had ~200 ticks.

Again, just my perspective.

T5 NA (Small havoc group point of view)

No real change for camp capping since goal was to beat white X anyways.

Lost the ability to draw enemy either for PVP or to distract them. This really changes the game play for our style of havoc. Much of the fun is to misdirect the enemy by false positives on the map as well as bring opposition to you for fights. Also feel like we lost the ability to help main zerg with this style of distraction.

Not much fun shifting to taking undefended structures as its just time and no challenge. Much of what we run into in BLs is paper as defenders are not actively upgrading.

Not much fun focusing on scouting as generally other friendlies were too wide spread to react when problems were discovered. Spent hours mindlessly roaming. Seemed to encounter less enemy in open field.

Finally, looking over the next week to work on new strategy. Use Yaks and guards to replace what we did with white X. Who knows ^^ might be good times.

T1 NA: (From my perspective.):

• Are you seeing more soloers?
  Yes for camps, it seems more are running to solo cap them prior to point tick.

• Are you seeing more havoc groups?
  Yes, and as a havoc guild member, we are having a better time than before the swords were removed.

• Are you seeing more or less upgrades?
  Seems the same, based off when objective flip or not.

• Are you seeing more or less upgrades on particular structures?
  Same as prior to white sword removal so far.

• Are you seeing more roaming scouts?
  Yes, and more seem to be volunteering to scout locations now that white swords aren’t in game. (Tep removal.)

• Are the main zergs smaller? If so any idea why?
  Main forces seem to be the same as before.

• Are you seeing more stationary scouts?
  Yes, and more volunteering to scout.

• Are you doing more scouting than normal?
  My normal is 1-3 hours a day, and I still maintain that or longer.

• Are you seeing more or less fighting than normal?
  Fighting seems to be the same as before.

• Are you seeing people communicate more/less?
  Players seem to be communicating the same, maybe a tad bit more. (Communication was key beforehand, along with scouting.)

I will say the change probably doesn’t effect T1 NA as much as it would the tiers below. Mainly due to T1 NA having people scouting, havocking, roaming, and larger open fighting prior to the change. However 1 thing I have noticed is BG/TC/JQ are setting more scouts on maps, and as a JQ player I’ve noticed more offering to replace a scout who has to log or go afk than prior to the change.

It’s still a bit early to tell since the patch hasn’t been out for a week of testing yet, so I think many are trying to still adjust to the change. (Plus due to holidays, there are a lot of variable’s in the mix.)

I’m on T2 NA, but it seems most people have been clear enough. I just wanted to say good idea for a thread, Hamster! This exactly what we need. A big perspective on everything to see just how this change effects WvW. That way we can all be honest with each other and try to figure out a solution. Plus the devs can see it clearly as well. +1!

T8 – EU

Con
We are not with that many on our server, so the removal of the swords makes it more of a K-train here: Instead of being able to react when a tower/keep is under attack, we just run behind the facts, re-capping everything..

Pro
People are communicating way more in map/team chat, calling out attacks and numbers..

Still early in the “testing phase”, but I don’t like it so far.. :-)

Now that we’re significantly farther into the “no white swords” and we’ve all had time to adjust has anyone revised their position on this change?

A pattern that I’ve been seeing in this and other threads is that this change affects T1 and T2 the least – most likely due to population.

Several very low tier servers have gone full potato Ktrain mode. There seems to be a lot more diversity of thought in Mid-tier servers. I think it would be beneficial to hear a bit more from T6-3 NA and EU players, as they’re probably the bulk of players outside of gold leagues in both NA and EU.

I think it would be helpful to define what your perspectives are as you post like havoc group, commander or just random wvw visitor.

T8 NA pugmander
the strat we’ve adopted isnt ktrain empty towers although it ends up appearing the same. We are trying to be more aggressive than the enemy and keep the fight on the enemy side of the map. Reason being, in lopsided matches defense was always a losing battle and now it just happens a lot faster.

I have a new thought on the situation. Removing white swords has made it easier for me as a commander, to make my intentions clear to the enemy. I can cap umber, cap duri and the sentry leading to brovost and most of the time, theres a pack of opposition waiting for me by the time I get to the doors of brovost.

seems obvious right? consider what my wvw was like before… attack duri, swords pop. some warrior runs through the door with stabo/invuln and throws siege disablers at our ram for like half an hour. what are we doing? standing around doing nothing. sure we popped white swords but theres no msg, we’re not a threat.

If I can get a few objectives not needing to wait out disablers, make multiple supply runs to rebuild siege the map shows what we are doing.

Im in your yard, kicking over your trash cans and throwing rocks at your dog so you better get out here and stop me!

In this sense the test has been fun in how its allowed me to cause more trouble and given me more control of the battle.

edit: we’re against Ka this week and pretty much everything they own is fully upgraded (cept aldons, yw ~_^) even smc fortified a few hours ago and will prolly stay that way for most of the week. the amount of upgrades we see havent changed at all, players are just as willing to spend resources on it as before.

T1 – Zergs are plowing mostly paper maps now.

T4 – If a keep is papered anywhere near primetime, it is guaranteed to be repeatedly sacked by a multitude of separate roaming guilds at separate times. This makes golem rushing and whatnot in off hours far more effective than before.

Also, roaming is now far more difficult. It’s a lot harder to track down a roaming group/player, though not impossible (if they skip sentries and are even slightly unpredictable it’s basically GG).

Bad change, makes for a decently fun event though. 2-3 manned a multitude of keeps in tier 4 (which given the population I’ve seen from each server, just shouldn’t happen).

Straegen.2938:

T1 – Zergs are plowing mostly paper maps now.

T6. Ditto.

I’m an oceanic WvW player on Ehmry Bay (currently tier 6) and for me the removal of white swords has been a terrible experience. In the past, home BL defense was already hard enough with the white swords, let alone without them. Most of the time we have around 5 people online, at most, and so we don’t want to have to sit in our keeps and towers and simply keep watch for the whole night, that’s neither fun or rewarding.

Before the removal of white swords, we were able to head across to the enemy BL and take some camps and towers whilst simultaneously making sure no enemies were trying to ninja our structures, whereas now, our structures are being capped left right and center, and we have no way to tell that they’re about to be taken (aside from scouting our structures, which we neither want to do or have enough people online to do).

People want the white swords to be removed because now they can take enemy objectives with no resistance what-so-ever. If the enemy had scouts, they’d be spotted and slain, just like they would if there were white swords, but fortunately for all the small group karma trainers, most people don’t enjoy scouting, and most servers don’t have enough numbers to afford scouts.

All the removal of white swords has does is made it incredibly hard for defenders, and really easy for attackers.

To be fair:

The white swords have made things seem more like Ktraining in lower tiers than higher tiers which have more wvw players on map during all hours. (So they have more scouts.)

However with the holidays its hard to gauge everything still, due to not knowing how many are off due to holidays or how many are playing more due to no work/school.

T5 EU (Gunnar’s Hold):

I find this “event” to be a complete disaster. Once you face a server that outnumbers you and you’re bound to fight at different spots at once while you barely have the coverage to fill one map (which is the usual case outside PT) it becomes completely impossible to defend a keep without WP. Usually it just ends up with 1 Server having WPs everywhere (home+EB Keep+SM, occasionally even enemy Hills/Bay) and the rest getting karma trained. Even if the imbalance within the matchup is not that significant, it is still a huge push for karma trainers, since it becomes more or less impossible to defend keeps without WP. Gold League servers might have the theoretic possibility to have scouts on all their maps, but if you defend your borderland with ~10 ppl while your only zerg is on EB it is simply not possible to have a scout at every tower and keep. For me this has only been a huge PvD event so far and I don’t like it. Fine to farm for a day or so but it gets incredibly boring.

Solo Roaming hasn’t changed that much, it’s easier to flip a camp when you’re alone or almost alone on hte map, but also less exciting since most of the time you know there will be no one coming for you.

> This “Event” sucks and should be removed asap.

I’m currently in favor of the update, but I’m not letting it cloud my vision. I’m merely going to express some observations of mine (From SOS) and let the player base make whatever they will of it. In other words, the following statements can be interpreted in different ways. I am not going to interpret them, however. I’m merely going to list observations that I have made during this short period of time.

1. Most structures are paper a majority of the time. Because things are seemingly easier to flip now, it’s prevented the player base from wanting to upgrade which creates a self sustaining system where everything remains paper indefinitely.

2. Teams are more spread out and sneak attacks (from water gate and other areas) are more common. Often it seems as if it’s a game of cat and mouse, at least when the sides are imbalanced. When they are balanced, however, I have noticed a lot of skirmishes across the map. A few times I’ve noticed three or four commanders on a single map.

3. Much of the more hardcore player base seems to have withdrawn until the update ends. This has caused map/team chat to be a lot more lively, but also to be more disorganized.

4. Due to the more relaxed style of gameplay, the environment is a lot friendlier to newer players. Instead of people telling them to go away, they’re generally welcomed to run with or party up with others.

T7 EU

For our server removing white swords is a desaster. We should have more people on than normal because of the holidays but I have never seen our population this low.
We dont have the numbers to scout and always relied on the white swords to tell us where the enemy was attacking. Now noone is upgrading anymore because its useless and a waste of gold. Many of our pug commanders and regular players stopped caring and stopped playing and so our pugs dont stay around long either. I can only hope that this doesnt have a permanent impact on our server and people will come back once this expirement is over.

T1 NA

(Hardcore wvw guild) No white swords has completely ruined WvW for us. There are no tactics anymore each side simply blobs into a massive karma train and runs around a paper map meeting little or no resistance.
Very few people are wiling to scout and to be fair I don’t blame them. Scouting is like telling people to not play the game it’s boring and unrewarding.
Even when there are scouts on the map there are never enough so defending has become almost impossible, there is no longer any point in upgrading or building defensive siege. As a defensive guide group assigned to home bl we spend most of our time chasing ghosts and recapping lost towers and keeps immediately after they were taken.

T8 NA

Personally LOVE the no white swords, and wish it could stay. In our tier, it really seems to reward coordination between multiple teams, aggressiveness and creative tactics. T8 used to be mostly blobs ktraining. They can still try to ktrain now, but they will lose PPT if they do.

This change is making T8 very, very fun to play in.

Happy new year to everyone

Does anyone have new perspective on No white swords, or any input on the new standard mode of behavior that your servers have settled into now that we’re deep into this change?

T8/9 EU

I wanted to like the change and hoped it’d make zergs split more etc etc. It wasn’t bad at first but the last week whole wvw is ktrain 24/7. I can’t stand it, kitten eotm has more player interaction than our current match up.

Hamster.4861:

Happy new year to everyone

Does anyone have new perspective on No white swords, or any input on the new standard mode of behavior that your servers have settled into now that we’re deep into this change?

Home borderland defense is pretty much dead. No one upgrades keeps anymore because they cannot be defended without some poor soul constantly standing in there staring into the horizon, and no one finds that enjoyable gameplay. Subsequently we’re not getting as much eagerness from EB to come help, because the garrison tends to not be sieged now or even fortified.

As a scout and roamer I spend most of my time running to camps “just in case” for no reason, and small group fights and 1v1s are way, way down.

Losing interest fast, tbh.

Kudos on this thread!

[T2 – NA] – I have put thought both into the pro’s and con’s of the lack of white swords and generally at this point would prefer to have them back.

Reasons: The lack of white swords has turned this WVW game into an exercise of flipping objectives. This has really taken away from the idea of defending a position.

I realize that the white swords only gave a few moments, and in the heat of some battles sometimes would go overlooked anyways due to the defense of other objects, however this was a means to give the defending team a view of movements on the maps without having to have roamers and scouts splinter about the map. The lack of white swords more adversely affects those T3 and below where the difference in community numbers begin to really become different between the top team and the other two.

I am for the return of the white sword as it does give a slight alarm. It does not necessarily determine the success/failure of the taking of the structure (a quick ninja attack of an undefended structure will happen regardless of the swords). What it does provide is some means to give the defending team a 30-60 second window to decide if it is worth responding to.

Again this is merely one opinion.

T8 Kaineng

My re-evaluation on the removal of White Swords:

Had a bit more time to play with this now, though we’ve had the same match-up from start to end, so I have a very limited perspective on how this affects other servers.

In defence: Most of my server have just given up on trying to defend camps and towers, same with upgrades. We still try to upgrade and defend keeps, though I think this to will eventually change to Garri only. It is simply much more efficient to just re-cap things, leave them paper, let them take, and go recap 5 minutes later. I’ve seen mostly the same from the other two servers in our match-up, unless they happen to be nearby on the way to something else, towers and camps goes un-defended. In our tier there is no way we have enough people to baby-sit all day long, we’re lucky if we have someone to watch Garri most of the day.

Scouting: Largely to few people and little interest to do.

In offence: It is easier to take towers and camps, next to no risk. I can count on one hand how many times I’ve been interrupted trying to take a camp even solo these last couple of weeks. Even the north towers are easy to take, since nobody comes to defend them. Got to hand it to Sor though, they sure defend their keeps.

Over all, it is easier to PvE but almost impossible to PvP. Frankly, we’ve started taking N camp, claim it, and upgrade it, and just wait for enemies to come retake it, and hope they are willing to come fight us more. Defenders largely find it easier to just let us take things, and re-cap it when we’re working on next object. I think the most fights I can remember last week was when we took N-camp, left, waited 2 minutes, ran back and ambushed the defenders trying to re-cap. After a couple of times they just left the N-camp alone.

---

I really don’t know how much of this is our match-up or not, but we are seeing much less fights.

I think this change could work if something else was put in to assist us, or changed how the mechanism worked. I don’t think the idea is completely stupid. But I really miss that feeling of racing the clock with the enemy zerg breathing down your neck as you try to cap a tower. There was more risk involved, and that if there was someone nearby camps they could spot and come interrupt you. Now it feels no-risk to attack, and hopeless to defend.

Hate the change. Turned the BLs into pretty much a karma train flipping barely defended paper siegeless objectives. Most combat we get for long stretches is plowing through gate guards before dropping rams.

Used to be that the enemy would show up to defend some of the time, and very often for even somewhat upgraded structures. Led to good fights. Very rare now.

T1 NA

joneirikb.7506:

Defenders largely find it easier to just let us take things, and re-cap it when we’re working on next object. I think the most fights I can remember last week was when we took N-camp, left, waited 2 minutes, ran back and ambushed the defenders trying to re-cap. After a couple of times they just left the N-camp alone.

This is why I don’t like no swords, overall less fights and unless they heavily outnumber me, they try to take camp once, maybe twice and then I don’t see people again for ages (usually till their zerg decides to take the only camp they don’t have on their bl).

With no swords it looks like more people switched on the “pvd” midset and if they meet any resistance, they leave.

its funny how many ka ppl come here and say they dont upgrade, yet every morning they have all keeps and garri’s in all maps fortified and wp’d. and then they say ka doesnt defend, yet they sit 30ppl in smc all day.

Synosius.9876:

its funny how many ka ppl come here and say they dont upgrade, yet every morning they have all keeps and garri’s in all maps fortified and wp’d. and then they say ka doesnt defend, yet they sit 30ppl in smc all day.

plz dont take cheap shots at guilds in this thread, this is not the place for it. If you want to QQ about someone, go here http://www.gw2wvw.net/

T1
i like the no swords. makes WvW more of an overall team game across guilds.
i like that scouts are more important.
communication with your world is way more emphasized.
i have not noticed a decrease in solo, zergs, or small groups, in fact i would say i have seen a small increase,my guess is more people are leaving spvp and coming to wvw.
i do travel around alot by myself in wvw, so it also nice that i now stand a better chance to capture a point without getting zerged.

Hamster.4861:

Synosius.9876:

its funny how many ka ppl come here and say they dont upgrade, yet every morning they have all keeps and garri’s in all maps fortified and wp’d. and then they say ka doesnt defend, yet they sit 30ppl in smc all day.

plz dont take cheap shots at guilds in this thread, this is not the place for it. If you want to QQ about someone, go here http://www.gw2wvw.net/

I can’t be sure if you are sarcastic or not but he is right about that. I’m on SoR and they, Kaineng, factually do wp and upgrade pretty much all they can and very, very often have sentry inside towers. For SM it isn’t rare to see 1 people per canon.

Back on topic, I’m among those who were afraid of that change (no swords making us sink into EoTM kind of play) but it appear I was wrong. At least for us on SoR. If anything, we have more players than ever and we still upgrade, roam, havoc etc. That being said, it was also Christmas vacation so the jury is still out there to see if that change is more positive than not.

Hamster.4861:

Synosius.9876:

its funny how many ka ppl come here and say they dont upgrade, yet every morning they have all keeps and garri’s in all maps fortified and wp’d. and then they say ka doesnt defend, yet they sit 30ppl in smc all day.

plz dont take cheap shots at guilds in this thread, this is not the place for it. If you want to QQ about someone, go here http://www.gw2wvw.net/

I wasnt aware there were any guilds named [Ka] and if there is i was not refering to them. My statement is not a cheap shot, im saying it appears i know your server, kaineng, better than you.

Synosius.9876:

Hamster.4861:

Synosius.9876:

its funny how many ka ppl come here and say they dont upgrade, yet every morning they have all keeps and garri’s in all maps fortified and wp’d. and then they say ka doesnt defend, yet they sit 30ppl in smc all day.

plz dont take cheap shots at guilds in this thread, this is not the place for it. If you want to QQ about someone, go here http://www.gw2wvw.net/

I wasnt aware there were any guilds named [Ka] and if there is i was not refering to them. My statement is not a cheap shot, im saying it appears i know your server, kaineng, better than you.

note that he is on IoJ rofl, and after the X weeks of gameplay my opinion still stands this kittening removal sucks.

T7 NA Borlis Pass Server

Are you seeing more soloers?
-Yes, mostly for my server, enemy servers have been about the same
Are you seeing more havoc groups?
-Slightly more on all servers we’ve faced the past 3 weeks
Are you seeing more or less upgrades?
-Less total, but more intelligent upgrading has taken its place
Are you seeing more or less upgrades on particular structures?
-More on the northern half of the homeland for BP, and more overall for the strongest server of the matchup(likely to make up for them having to spread out to guard)
Are you seeing more roaming scouts?
-Enemies are too difficult to tell if they are scouts cause they don’t usually come back like a real scout would to call your position and what you’re doing, my server has more roamers nowadays but I don’t think they are scouts…they’re just kinda there
Are the main zergs smaller? If so any idea why?
-Only if they become too defense-minded and paranoid about their keeps being attacked
Are you seeing more stationary scouts?
-See above answer, but usually more people roam to cover more ground
Are you doing more scouting than normal?
-Small guild so we’re normally always moving however we split in order to cover more ground whether offensively/defensively or just to scout out troops
Are you seeing more or less fighting than normal?
-Slightly more, the outmanned server has more of a chance to take things and even my server will stick around to fight and defend those instead of before where white swords meant you had a certain amount of time before a main enemy zerg would show up to crush you.
Are you seeing people communicate more/less?
-Slightly more

Overall I’ve enjoyed it, the more you take the more you HAVE available to lose. Roaming is the #1 way to counteract losing stuff…not sitting inside a structure.

Ok 3 weeks in, T4 here:

• Are you seeing more soloers? Yes
• Are you seeing more havoc groups? A lot more
• Are you seeing more or less upgrades? About the same
• Are you seeing more or less upgrades on particular structures? Quicker rush to T3 keeps
• Are you seeing more roaming scouts? Yes
• Are the main zergs smaller? If so any idea why? Seeing more spreads now
• Are you seeing more stationary scouts? Less stationary scouts
• Are you doing more scouting than normal? Mixed
• Are you seeing more or less fighting than normal? More and more smaller actions
• Are you seeing people communicate more/less? More map chat

Still hoping for a CDI and would love to see some official stats.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Suggestion for next update:

-Server achievements and events.
-WvW reward track.
-PPK zones around claimed objectives
-Removal of Keep lord rewards
-Increase of Rewards in WvW in general.
-Keep bag drops (they are a nice extra if people bother to pick them up, or see them at all in the first place)

1. Server achievements are part of the problem with seasons. You have the season 1 NA that was BG winning everything (which would certainly be a achievement) while in season 2 it was 2v1 all day long.
While 2v1 was great for the wallet, the idea of the 2v1 in essence every other week was awful.

2. Wvw Reward tracks – YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES. We also need skins for that. Armor and weapon. Maybe a way to show ranks as just a added thing for fun.

4. I would rather reward servers for holding onto objectives. I would like to see something that calculates offensive v defensives forces, the amount of siege used etc. in what the ppt tick or just raw WvW points for X capture.

Such as BG Garrison with 40 vs 40 golem rush with 80 TC and 30 JQ (with 5 ACs)

The TC capture would be less than the BG successful defense. Would also have to calculate how long you held it. IE: TC holds their garri for 4 hours of attack. They would get X points per hour of attack. I would think the best way to define attack is when a wall or gate is taken down and then points rewarded depending on size of force attacking (goes through x well or y door). 5/10/20/30/40/50/60/70+ increments.

You can also give a good amount of points for successful yaks reaching destinations thus protecting and killing would be nice in PPT. Also make the yaks harder to kill or make the guards champions and no having to upgrade the camp to get guards for the yaks (maybe one upgrade to make it go from 2 champs to 3 or something). Camps would keep whatever max supply they had for the time of the buff on the Sup. fully upgraded camp with 250 sup would be 250 for 5 minutes.

Reduce the amount of siege you can place in one area (depending on which type). no 20 AC defense crap. Make people have to play not AC people to death or make them extremely easy to kill and more skills reach some of the AC spots.

As for bag drops, i would like to see more even if a reward track was put in.

Obviously this is not gonna happen but i think it would require less zerg running around and crap.

Underworld:

Are you seeing more soloers? No.
Are you seeing more havoc groups? Pretty much the same.
Are you seeing more or less upgrades? Less.
Are you seeing more or less upgrades on particular structures? Waypoint hype. #IgnoreTheTowers
Are you seeing more roaming scouts? Same as before.
Are the main zergs smaller? No.
Are you seeing more stationary scouts? No.
Are you doing more scouting than normal? About the same.
Are you seeing more or less fighting than normal? Not sure.
Are you seeing people communicate more/less? Much more communication in map chat <3

Overall I don’t like the no white swords but I’d love for more of these temporary changes to happen in wvw!

T8 Sorrow’s Furnace

Can’t tell if its good or bad. Going against the same severs the whole time and all 3 servers have a much bigger problem which is population.

I can say upgrades happen on a whim it seems. I stopped upgrading because there is nobody on to defend.

Roaming is the same you see 1-5 people if you see anyone. Last week I took my home bl back solo and did not see a single team mate or opponent (sure I died a few times but that was because I made mistakes with lords)and about 20 mins after it got flipped again.

I see people talking about tactics and skill when all I see its mostly the same numbers and coverage still win.

White swords have returned!!!

Does anyone have anything they’re burning to add to the white sword discussion, now that we’re looking back on the whole sneak attack in retrospect?

Will ppl remember what they have learned or will they go back to the lazy scouting and sloppy tactics?

Cause it was getting harder to sneak objectives like first week. Id say to my group… if you see a scout call it out. Oh kittens we’re spotted!

Its too much work, bring back white swords so I can get a break plz!

Edit: to clarify, it was actually getting harder to sneak an objective because every incursion was viewed as a threat, as it should be. One of my more memorable smc sneaks went like this…
Set up treb in QL, hit wall of smc. Swords pop, crowd gathers on SE wall, when the enemy went for QL I set up guild catas on west wall. Walk into t3 smc lord room with 6 ppl and cap.

This sort of misdirection simply stopped working because the enemy became smart enough to just look around. This strat working was the result of lazy players depending on white swords to tell them where to go.

In retrospect, games are better when they’re not as much of a chore. If you didn’t have scouts patrolling or just flat out sitting in anything w/o a WP, you could lose it at any time. I can’t say how many times a map would be completely my color, then we’d lose a keep randomly cus some guys build catas on cata wall w/o capturing a camp (probably by running supplies from other maps, I’ve done it myself, it works).

I enjoyed ninjaing some things, but ultimately it just promotes PvD. Thankfully now, when I’m roaming, I can find other roamers by watching for swords on objectives, and vice versa.