Guild Wars 2

Getting perma stunned / feared at full duration gets old really fast, make it so the first one is full duration, next one in 3-5sec is half effect and another in 3-5 sec is zero , that way you cant get spammed and brings back a bit fun

Doesn’t need to happen.

yeah the cc is too much atm.something needs to change as its really not fun being perma cc’ed to death without even a chance to use a block

This has only been an issue to for me when I’m outnumbered, in which case the game design doesn’t support my situation.

Each stun/immbo should have its duration halved after one has been used within say 3-5seconds of them using one.

Example (say each stun/immbo lasts for 3 seconds)

1st: Lasts 3 seconds
2nd lasts 1.5 seconds
3rd lasts 0.75 seconds

This way it would mean that the target would have time to be able to do SOMETHING about it and the attacker would have to use other attacks while they wait for the “debuff” to expire

It could be something like:

Exhausted: The effort you used to stun/immbo your target has weakened you, during this period you Stuns/Immbo have diminishing returns. Stacks. Lasts 5 seconds.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Each stun/immbo should have its duration halved after one has been used within say 3-5seconds of them using one.

Example (say each stun/immbo lasts for 3 seconds)

1st: Lasts 3 seconds
2nd lasts 1.5 seconds
3rd lasts 0.75 seconds

This way it would mean that the target would have time to be able to do SOMETHING about it and the attacker would have to use other attacks while they wait for the “debuff” to expire

It could be something like:

Exhausted: The effort you used to stun/immbo your target has weakened you, during this period you Stuns/Immbo have diminishing returns. Stacks. Lasts 5 seconds.

agree with this. its not only an outnumbered problem. 2 warriors can easily chain lock/immobilize/knockdown/interrupt/fear/knockback 2 other enemies to death. so a diminishing return on cc like that could make wvw a little more fun as u actually have the chance to react

Needs to happen. DAoC learnt this way too late.

Um, stability? It sort of grants complete immunity to CC. I know other games have DRs but they also have 1 stunbreak only and no such thing as stability.

Roe.3679:

Um, stability? It sort of grants complete immunity to CC. I know other games have DRs but they also have 1 stunbreak only and no such thing as stability.

Yeah because EVERY class has easy access to stability….

Roe.3679:

Um, stability? It sort of grants complete immunity to CC. I know other games have DRs but they also have 1 stunbreak only and no such thing as stability.

erm yeah sure my 2 second stability on a stupid mantra that is so useful in a zerg. i never get stunlocked to death ever.piece of cake as mes……wait

It would help if immobilize breaks on receiving damage (just like aegis is removed if you get hit, or blind is removed if your attack connects).
Snares are great ways to set up your burst, but it shouldn’t make you a sitting duck for 2+ seconds of spike damage. It isn’t even a matter of being outmannered (though this is where it becomes most obvious); Just look at warriors and thieves and their ability to lock down enemies for the full duration from 100% to 0 even if they slot several (instant) condition removals. Immobilize removal seems to be lowest priority for the game, which in most cases leads to awkward situations like removing the vulnerability of C’n’D, cripple / weakness from warrior skills or one or two stacks of random bleeds, while sitting there in 3+ seconds of immobilize in which you can’t do many things but eat all the stuff that gets thrown at you. It currently is stronger than most hard CC in that you cannot break it reliably, it is stackable, and there is no serious mitigation like stability is (I like beeing able to snare enemies even when they have stability up, but it shouldn’t drive mindless lockdown gameplay).

In a game where damage mitigation relies on active game play, there is nothing worse than beeing locked down, thus removing the active part for one side.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Roe.3679:

Um, stability? It sort of grants complete immunity to CC. I know other games have DRs but they also have 1 stunbreak only and no such thing as stability.

Yeah because EVERY class has easy access to stability….

Yes, I play necro too. Yet I don’t have issues with this.

selan.8354:

Roe.3679:

Um, stability? It sort of grants complete immunity to CC. I know other games have DRs but they also have 1 stunbreak only and no such thing as stability.

erm yeah sure my 2 second stability on a stupid mantra that is so useful in a zerg. i never get stunlocked to death ever.piece of cake as mes……wait

You play a mesmer. Use your blinks, blocks, invulns, invis, CC… Mesmers have more tools than nearly any class to avoid someone. Or you know, just get out of the way.

Roe.3679:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Roe.3679:

Um, stability? It sort of grants complete immunity to CC. I know other games have DRs but they also have 1 stunbreak only and no such thing as stability.

Yeah because EVERY class has easy access to stability….

Yes, I play necro too. Yet I don’t have issues with this.

selan.8354:

Roe.3679:

Um, stability? It sort of grants complete immunity to CC. I know other games have DRs but they also have 1 stunbreak only and no such thing as stability.

erm yeah sure my 2 second stability on a stupid mantra that is so useful in a zerg. i never get stunlocked to death ever.piece of cake as mes……wait

You play a mesmer. Use your blinks, blocks, invulns, invis, CC… Mesmers have more tools than nearly any class to avoid someone. Or you know, just get out of the way.

if u blink u are still immobilize and guess what im using it all the time. i have stubreakers but with the cc meta its not enough.often i keep pressing blink but cant get it to work due to perma interrupts.gg

What they should do is make it so you have a period of invulnerability to conditions and cc in general. You shouldn’t be able to have to blow every cleanse or stunbreaker you have getting out of someone mindlessly spamming crap only to have it all reapplied a second later while all your stuff is on 60+ sec cooldowns. Get hit with a bleed and cleanse it, immunity to bleed for 3 seconds afterwards. same thing with stuns. This especially needs to happen with immobilize. Alot of cheesy perma immobilize crap is popping up lately. 2 people can keep you permanently immobilized very easily. 2 warriors together can do it, as can 2 thieves. Normally i have no problem killing 2 or 3 people at the same time, but lately i keep running into pairs running perma immobilize builds. absolutely nothing you can do about that. get hit once and its game over. Cant dodge when immobile, cant cleanse it since it’s instantly reapplied the second you do.

Roe.3679:

Um, stability? It sort of grants complete immunity to CC. I know other games have DRs but they also have 1 stunbreak only and no such thing as stability.

Isn’t immobilize a condition? So stability really doesn’t matter as it only pertains to interrupts….so just use condi clears….

Diminishing returns on CC are necessary in any game that wants it’s PvP to be taken seriously.

Just throwing that out there.

Learn to read the other players/classes, and use dodges wisely…
If one has stun breaks, but less condi cleanses, one avoids immobilizing attacks, if one has no stun breaks / stability, one avoids stun/daze attacks…
If one keeps being attacked by surprise, one has to learn to keep looking around for sneaky foes…

There will always be classes a class can’t defeat, builds a build can’t counter. This is also part of balancing. My traps build works wonderfully against thieves, but is doing nothing to most wars / necros.
Signet build allows me to take wars and necros, but I can’t kill thieves…

I do not think DR is a solution when most classes can dodge/evade the worst attacks… if they read them…

I was getting killed by pretty much everything before I went duelling with guildies in SPvP – they explained their build to me, what was the tell-tale sign of their worst attack, I started using spectator mode in SPvP to learn to read most attacks, and though I still am not a great player, I miss some important dodges/evades, I learn of every fight I win or lose, I take note of my mistakes, and, when I get perma cc’ed, it is usually because I did not evade when I should have.
If I’m duelling, and someone gets trapped in my roots, it’s because they did not take the time to see that I made the jumping animation that would tell them I was going to use my elite… If a war takes me by surprise, it is because I did not look at my surrounding… If i’m getting immobilized in the middle of mesmers clones, it because I was not smart enough to not stay in the middle of its clones, and because I was even more stupid not dodging/evading, when I know that the ennemi is playing sword, or I saw the stun/daze/blind pistol animation…

Same thing with all classes. If I am not smart/fast enough to avoid the attacks that are going to hurt me most, I deserve to be perma stun or perma immob to death… because I do not want my bad playing skills to be rewarded…
I know of no dangerous skills that can’t be avoided by reading tell-tale signs, knowing main builds.

The problem is not duels? It’s 2v1? Well… avoid 2v1… The problem is the hammerstun bus? With good placement, no distance should be hit by the hammer train…

GW2 offers a very active gameplay… but players have to be active before they are stunned, dazed, immob or whatever… and not complain that they can’t be active when cc’ed…

Good luck in dodging everything in small group fights. Let’s see how you can dodge every possible stun / snare there… /rolleyes

In small group fights, it’s a mix of dueling and bus attitudes…
It demands both placement and group coordination.
When its coordinated group against coordinated groups, a team will try to focus and bring down a member of the other team. The other team will see it and support their singled-out while DPSing the other group, making sure they are placed in accordance with their class… (Why would someone with a distance build go front-line, for example, and how did that distance let a front liner approach him or her?)
If one group is coordinated, and the other isn’t, it is not CC that is making a difference…

So, the point is, one on one, I dodge what I cannot take off with my build, in group, I make sure I am in a position that makes it so the front line takes the heat – which is their “job”.
No matter if it’s 5V10 or 30v45, when one is well placed, according to it’s build and the build of the people around him/her, stun/disable/immobilize are not doing anything.
The only times they are causing my death is when I am not well placed (in other settings than 1v1) or (in 1v1) when I am not making optimal use of my counter/escape/dodge.

Of course, in a “more than 1v1” setting, noone can dodge everything – but good positioning makes it so one is not going to be perma stunned / immobilized / dazed / or whatever…

Like, if someone runs though a static field and gets dazed… hum… really? then gets hammer stunned and cc’ed to death… if he ran through the static field and got dazed in the first place, it is his poor placement/actions… any distance that gets in melee range without the proper support, would it be stability, condi cleanses, whatever, somewhat made mistakes…

The bigger the group gets, the more not being cc’ed is a question of placement, the smaller it is, the more it is a question of making good use of evades/dodges

Placements in bus/groups is also something I worked on a lot.
I recorded my playing, looked at my positioning, looked at videos of other mid-range/mid melee people of my guild, and learned to position myself.

I did not do much “small committee/roaming”, I admit, but what I saw the few times I did it, was that one needed even more than in bus, to be well-positioned, and use dodges/escapes to keep to the position one should be at…

This is confirmed by videos like those of [EvO]; they run with 5-10 people and often bring zergs down… They do not have insane amount of cleanse, or dodges that noone else can get access to, they know where to place themselves to be useful for the group, without being CC’ed to death, or whatever else…

Thanks for summarizing some key aspects of solo and group roaming.

It seems that you either play a semi to full range build (i.e. 600+) or haven’t met any (soft-)cc-heavy group yet. CC of any fashion played a major role in any organized fight I participated in; be it snares to force an enemy into melee range, immobilizes to guarantee a spike / get some leeway, blinds to mitigate spikes or CC, stuns and dazes for interrupting a stomp, etc. There are also several ways to mitigate the effect of CC, some of which were mentioned in your post.

But you missed one major point of the above discussion: application, reapplication and stacking of several control conditions is easy pie. Atm there are only few spells which can be used for targetted condition removal, which makes it even harder to counter the conditions which need to be cleansed in case they hit you (which becomes easy with epidemic, venom sharing thieves and the likes).
The main purpose of condition removal spells is to mitigate direct and passive effects of conditions, be it damaging torment stacks or snares which get you in harm’s way (aka major trouble of losing a good chunk of your HP bar).
Once rooted, chances are good to eat another immobilize, and so on. Most builds cannot do much in such cases (even when built for some level of self sustain). Before Anet decided to let immobilizes stack in duration, it was hard but managable on most classes to endure a common 2-3 sec immobilize if it happened to hit you. Right now the situation is a bit different, in that you sit there for the duration of the condition plus any succeeding application; locked in one spot. You cannot break out of it reliably (like a stun breaker does against stuns and dazes), nor can you actively evade (not everyone has access to skill-bound evades) or mitigate incoming damage for much more than 3 seconds.

As much as I love balanced small scale fights of groups with well-thought-of builds and great players, as little it has to do with the intentions of this topic. we’re talking about cheese like LB-bola-warriors and groups with venom share thieves, and insane stuff like immobilize stacking on already immobilized foes / allies.

There are reasons for non-stacking hard-CC in GW2 and DR or auto-stunbreak on incoming dmg in other games. Why does all of that not apply to the most powerful soft CC in this game? The CC spam and lack of targetted mitigation in GW2 is the key point of negative comments of almost any “better” player and group I had a chance to play with or against. Some tend to abuse it, wheras others try to point out potential for more fun and challenging ways to play the game.
Just think about it in this way: Would it be less challenging and fun for all players involved if immobilize-stacking wouldn’t exist? Would DR or on-hit-breaks on immobilize put any class /group at a (severe) disadvantage against any other one? (and so on)