Guild Wars 2

Jana.6831:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

You can shorten it and still have some travel from HS if you didn’t rotate camera fast enough and still get 4 stacks but again that’s not the full HS length and is most often what happens when inexperienced players try to emulate the exploit.

Lol – alright then – have a nice day.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Yes I use Trickery, it’s not an issue of not having the Initiative it’s the actual time of the BP smoke field won’t last the length of 4 full distance HS.

Then try to noob down so it works for you.

I meant inexperienced as in players inexperienced with using BP/HS combo to stack stealth, since it does take practice to get it down properly, I wasn’t calling you an inexperienced player. I could have worded that better the first time.

You do know that I have 10+ k of hours on power D/D thief, right? I guess my camera movements are fluid and I wasn’t even trying to exploit anything, I was just leaping through my BP field. Sorry, but I don’t take “the normal camera is used as an exploit” that seriously. Exploits would be 5, maybe 6 HS max anyway and 4 is plenty already – I guess the problem is more on OH pistol than the camera.

ETA: No matter what the camera “exploit” is: D/P has got too much access to stealth – but that doesn’t mean thief is the only culprit when it comes to stealth.

Jana.6831:

You do know that I have 10+ k of hours on power D/D thief, right? I guess my camera movements are fluid and I wasn’t even trying to exploit anything, I was just leaping through my BP field. Sorry, but I don’t take “the normal camera is used as an exploit” that seriously. Exploits would be 5, maybe 6 HS max anyway and 4 is plenty already – I guess the problem is more on OH pistol than the camera.

I say it’s an exploit since that is Anets stance on using the camera that way, it’s just something that hasn’t been a priority of there’s to fix but with recent exploit fixes I feel like they will make it not function as it does now. And again if you can post videos of you doing the full 4 leaps without exploiting the camera to shorten HS travel distance I would love to see it

And I agree. Thief isn’t the only culprit with stealth abuser .

An exploit. kitten …

DeceiverX.8361:

In the case of druid, do not forget about Bark Skin (minor) and Shared Anguish (the only good major), also applicable to core ranger since these are both in WS. Saying ranger is susceptible to burst is imho a pretty poor argument since their already-amazing trait line allows for such low-investment passive CC negation and 50% damage reduction on an opening hit or two. I find myself on my full berserker ranger almost always escaping being bursted, and quite honestly, only dying to thieves when being stuck to by Shadow Shot spam, because I don’t run staff or HoT pets to enable a disengage. And that’s a problem I’ve been arguing over religiously for years :P

I played a glass cannon no/low-stealth D/D thief for the better half of four years and won most of the times I got jumped by other thieves. Not to say stealth camping ganks are fair and fun, but the impact passives have (particularly against the more fair builds) on the game is pretty tremendous and quite honestly, just as frustrating, and in all seriousness, the need to react quickly in this game is under-valued. The fact my opponent can be perfectly capable of seeing me, not playing well enough to actually notice me, and then be unpunished for being taken by surprise from behind is quite silly.

As I said, permanent stealth shouldn’t be possible anywhere, as good awareness should let you be able to see any incoming opponents from a far distance, even if they might be able to close that gap very quickly. OOC stealth is imho poor design in general on pretty much anything that can inflict burst damage. Get rid of the possibility of ganks which don’t have counterplay, and the need for passives drops immensely. But it only becomes fair when both of these things happen.

As mentioned, though, it’s not stealth itself that’s necessarily the strong mechanic but stealth paired with things like burst damage, mobility, sustain, etc. that makes it seem so strong.

Yeah I forgot about bark skin, still a core ranger running berserker gear without auto proc weakness will die if I burst onto it from stealth as a shatter mesmer. I’ve seen thieves hit berserker gear people for 10k with a 2k steal, quick follow up auto will finish the job and all these can be done from stealth without a person knowing thanks to the way stealth stacks. Agreed on shadowshot spam, but then we’ve talked about that one before lol.

Yeah playing a DD thief you can generally see them coming and it’s very annoying to be playing a risky build only to see an auto proc save the person not once but multiple times in a fight. I know I was seeing this with scrappers most notably with elixir S. However not everyone is that, I guess I would say honorable, when it comes to initiating on someone. I generally do not stealth to engage and will use the 3s or 5s from MI as a tool to change where I go however I do accept that stealth stacking is still a problem especially the pledge when combined with PU allowing for extrememly high and regular stealth. It’s not a DP thief only problem and certainly is bad on engy.

If stealth was never over 3-5s then stealth wouldn’t be as much of a problem for most people, especially if the amount of stealth you can use is reduced drastically so enemies don’t pop up and disappear every few seconds.

Still doesn’t resolve the issue of needing a target to use skills though and that is why S/X ele can never really be viable in WvW. If you come across a thief with no brain damage you’ll most likely lose and there’s no getting away from it either. I still /salute the ones I see though.

Edit: To those saying a thief cannot 1v1. I was lucky enough to see Sindreneer in WvW giving a masterclass on how to beat just about every single player that challenged him. I only saw him die to Feint Fate however it would be inaccurate to say Feint Fate beat him a lot, it was just every now and then. Sindreneer fought pretty much every single bit of cheese you can get in WvW, high sustain scrappers, berserkers, condi players he ate alive.

Now I acknowledge he is a fantastic player however he wasn’t going up against complete noobs, he was going up against well know guilds like [Cake] and known streamers. Like it or not thief can 1v1, has a hard time vs some, easy time vs others, same as a lot of classes.

As far as thief is concerned , I think perma stealth can be addressed via changes to how the stacking works. This would not compromise the thief to any great extent. Outside SR , which has a long enough cooldown it not really an issue , this would mainly focus on d/p.

For other classes I think dropping stealth durations across the board warranted along with slight increases to cooldowns on existing stealth skills and utilities. if sone in combination they would still be viable.

Ie Hunters shot cooldown to 15 seconds duration 3 seconds.

The prestige 2 seconds stealth.

Change to stealth itself. When stealth applied there a 1 second ICD before another stealth can be applied.

and so on.

Jana.6831:

Exploits would be 5, maybe 6 HS max anyway and 4 is plenty already – I guess the problem is more on OH pistol than the camera.

ETA: No matter what the camera “exploit” is: D/P has got too much access to stealth – but that doesn’t mean thief is the only culprit when it comes to stealth.

Just for context this quote is from a thread about complains with action cam. One of them was the inconsistencies between action camera and normal camera with heart seeker in particular but any leap in general can be shortened using this method described below.

Joel Helmich.7398:

pointing the camera down does not shorten the Heartseeker’s leap, making it much more difficult to jump inside Black Powder multiple times.

The behavior you want is almost certainly a bug in the first place, so I’m not sure what to tell you.

So as far as anets concerned short leaping in black powder to get more than 2 leaps is a bug. At least according to this dev. This is what blaq is trying to get across and what I am talking about in regards to d/p. I would not at all be surprised that they force all leaps to go full distance, in which case d/p will have a large reduction in stealth (2 leaps instead of 4). It’s more than likely where they will hit next.

I understand it has almost 0 impact on d/d so you don’t care. That’s fine.

Already told you that no matter what you do you will always be able to leap more than 3 times into BP, even with full leaps as the second full leap will bring you back to your starting position which is your BP field. With some clever positioning 4 full leaps are the norm and not exception, you don’t need to shorten anything for that. So to me that’s neither a bug nor an exploit.

ETA: First person view or action camera (not using any of them) might shorten the span – but the limiting factors are: Duration of the BP field and your initative, not so much the distance of your leap.

Jana.6831:

Already told you that no matter what you do you will always be able to leap more than 3 times into BP, even with full leaps as the second full leap will bring you back to your starting position which is your BP field.

Making a video right now, but this is false, you have to move in order for the second leap finisher to count. You can get 3 leaps, 4 is impossible much harder without looking top down(Which is what causes the shorting bug) or using bound.

Jana.6831:

ETA: First person view or action camera (not using any of them) might shorten the span – but the limiting factors are: Duration of the BP field and your initative, not so much the distance of your leap.

Action camera cannot do this mechanic. It simply is not possible. In order to get a 4 stack you have to use bound or flawlessly about face. Otherwise you run out of time to do 4 leaps on action camera. On normal camera it works perfectly fine for most because most people play top down to see more. Top down shortens the distance of heartseeker on normal camera.

Edit: https://vid.me/SOC2 when its done uploading… I have the upload speed of a dying camel. So it may be a bit.

The first clip I am not using any movement keys to prove that leaping back does put you back into your original position. However it does not count as a leap finisher. You have to move forward or to the side to get it to count. Moving takes up time, which reduces the window to leap finisher multiple times. At full range you barely have time to leap 4 times. It can be done tho.

Second part is showing the shortening mechanic (which I’ll admit I suck at as someone who plays purely action cam/combat mode mod) that a lot of theifs rely on. Aiming top down shortens heartseeker range. I’m still going to go out say you probably play top down normally to see more, as most people do, I don’t think you realize that this shortens all leap finishers. That said it is possible to 4 leap without this, but for the majority of the base this is their bread and butter and it’s considered a bug.

I just did it 4 times, so it isn’t false but you are doing something false. End of story.

ETA: You’re waiting too long at some point – it can’t be that I’m able to do it nearly every time (vanilla thief DA, CS, T) while you guys are claiming this is impossible.

ETA²: And even if I made a video of it (btw some guy showed it to me 1,5 to 2 years ago and he had way better positioning than I and was still using full leaps) – you guys would claim that I somehow shortened the leaps although I’m not doing anything. So I guess nerfing BP duration or initative gain (I’m in favour of the former) would be the solution to this problem – as the camera as it is has been in place for at least since I play (3 years).

Edit: My usual Ifwould problem. And no, I’m really not in the mood to record, edit and upload a video for something as trivial as this.

Jana.6831:

I just did it 4 times, so it isn’t false but you are doing something false. End of story.

ETA: You’re waiting too long at some point – it can’t be that I’m able to do it nearly every time (vanilla thief DA, CS, T) while you guys are claiming this is impossible.

As I said post a video, only way to see if, Eval is putting together a video showing it I would like to see a video of you doing it.

Maybe you should get gud

apharma.3741:

…trimmed for length due to 5k character post limit…

To be fair, ranged multi-hit burst available on skills like MR pretty much hard-counters bark skin, since the first clone will take off the reduction and the rest will hit for full damage, and the weakness is applied within only 240 range.

If stealth is intermittent, single-target abilities work fine. All ranged attacks in the game regardless of weapon, if made against a target before it enters stealth, hit the target. So long as it happens even as the pre-cast is starting, the abilities will land. S/X ele suffers from the matchup profession-wise because its primary source of damage comes from gimmick options in traits like FA, it doesn’t deal with being blinded well, and it pretty-heavily depends on using a lot of skills in rapid succession with a preset rotation. Rotation-heavy play can be countered by a lot of good thieves (particularly on D/P) to begin with, and since the Ele in general lacks oppressively busted stats and the thief isn’t nerfed in WvW like it is in sPvP due to the way stats on amulets work, there’s a lot going against the ele. S/X ele is only really countered by D/P or Bound PH pistol from the thief being able to recover and position better while running the ele dry or a hyper-aggressive boon-rip evasion S/D build. Against OH dagger or core thief not running D/P, S/x ele arguably has the edge from AoE blinds.

Sindrener is indeed an incredible player, and in WvW, the thief is MUCH better off than it is in sPvP. There’s a reason the class has stayed played in WvW for years despite being considered so poor in sPvP. Put simply, relative to other professions’s losses, the thief just by entering sPvP loses an upwards of 25% of its damage. On more aggressive, damage-oriented builds, this number (again, this is relative to other professions’ losses) sees almost a 50% decrease. This is attributed solely to the amulet system, boons, and its interaction with how the thief achieves its damage. Mind you, I’m not going to talk down Sindrener – he’s the best in the game for a reason, much better than me – but it’s very important to keep this in mind when taking different perspectives of sPvP players and WvW players. The fact that until the recent changes I was able to see fantastic success in WvW playing what’s been long-argued as the single worst thief build, without the Daredevil (and so bad in sPvP I moved to classes with < 50 hours on them with much better results) kind of exacerbates this. The thief is certainly capable when it’s being played on an optimal build in an optimal environment by the best player in the game, but such a situation begs whether or not that’s really and truthfully an adequate representation of the class itself in multiple environments.

As far as ghost thief goes, trapper runes aren’t the main issue, although generally speaking, I dislike the rune, and they do exacerbate an issue which shouldn’t be one, which is high-mobility and stealth uptime on builds that in all honesty shouldn’t have it.

Stealth isn’t much of a problem anymore apart from the “Ghost Thief” which I would be surprised if Anet intended for such a build to exist especially as they nerfed Choking Gas to prevent the very thing that you can still do on Thief now. The problem is, sorting out that Thief build could have disastrous consequences for the health of Thief traps. It would probably be best for Anet to leave it alone.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Jana.6831:

Alright, but the camera has always been around and I told you that even with full leaps it’s possible to stack 4 times – so I have no idea what’s an exploit and what should be fixed if everything is already working like intended.

I would like to see you post a video of stacking it 4 times with full HS leaps without manipulating the camera, as it stands right now it’s not possible, it can stack at the very most 3 times due to the amount of travel time HS takes for full 450 range. The exploit is manipulating the camera so you never leave the BP circle and can stack it 4+ times

Edited screwed up on the travel distance

you can do it 5 with out camera glitching if you do triple dodge double heart seeker.

Simonoly.4352:

Stealth isn’t much of a problem anymore apart from the “Ghost Thief” which I would be surprised if Anet intended for such a build to exist especially as they nerfed Choking Gas to prevent the very thing that you can still do on Thief now. The problem is, sorting out that Thief build could have disastrous consequences for the health of Thief traps. It would probably be best for Anet to leave it alone.

They made it so all traps didn’t have direct damage so it doesn’t reveal thief, it was specifically stated for each trap that’s why they did it, and trapper runes were in the game at the time as well.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Simonoly.4352:

Stealth isn’t much of a problem anymore apart from the “Ghost Thief” which I would be surprised if Anet intended for such a build to exist especially as they nerfed Choking Gas to prevent the very thing that you can still do on Thief now. The problem is, sorting out that Thief build could have disastrous consequences for the health of Thief traps. It would probably be best for Anet to leave it alone.

They made it so all traps didn’t have direct damage so it doesn’t reveal thief, it was specifically stated for each trap that’s why they did it, and trapper runes were in the game at the time as well.

No one even used traps than and there was no “Ghost thief”. The single trap used in these builds is needle trap. They should not even be called trapper builds.

They are STEALTH builds and only work because of stealth stacking on d/p.

All the changes to traps did was allow these builds to access another means of doing damage while stealthed. Traps are no more an issue here then are caltrops or Perplexity rune number 6 or pain inverter or uncatchable.

(not refuting your points , just adding)

babazhook.6805:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Simonoly.4352:

Stealth isn’t much of a problem anymore apart from the “Ghost Thief” which I would be surprised if Anet intended for such a build to exist especially as they nerfed Choking Gas to prevent the very thing that you can still do on Thief now. The problem is, sorting out that Thief build could have disastrous consequences for the health of Thief traps. It would probably be best for Anet to leave it alone.

They made it so all traps didn’t have direct damage so it doesn’t reveal thief, it was specifically stated for each trap that’s why they did it, and trapper runes were in the game at the time as well.

No one even used traps than and there was no “Ghost thief”. The single trap used in these builds is needle trap. They should not even be called trapper builds.

They are STEALTH builds and only work because of stealth stacking on d/p.

All the changes to traps did was allow these builds to access another means of doing damage while stealthed. Traps are no more an issue here then are caltrops or Perplexity rune number 6 or pain inverter or uncatchable.

(not refuting your points , just adding)

I didn’t play much back then do to irl so I don’t know if it was prevalent back when they made that change, but yes it isn’t a big issue for the most part just a highly annoying build to fight.

I was just taking a T3 camp with ogres with a mesmer ally. 2 guys kept coming for us = it was a very long and rather tough fight, especially since I just switched from auto to manual targeting which I can pull off in PvE by now, in wvw I’m still “whaaa what now?”

Since I’m a power D/D thief – I need control about where the enemy is (knockback, tyvm) and control about me being stealthed. I didn’t have both in that fight and power D/D is probably the only set that really has got issues with this, it still would be nice if that’d be taken into account if someone at anet decides to have a look at stealth in general.

Jana.6831:

I was just taking a T3 camp with ogres with a mesmer ally. 2 guys kept coming for us = it was a very long and rather tough fight, especially since I just switched from auto to manual targeting which I can pull off in PvE by now, in wvw I’m still “whaaa what now?”

Since I’m a power D/D thief – I need control about where the enemy is (knockback, tyvm) and control about me being stealthed. I didn’t have both in that fight and power D/D is probably the only set that really has got issues with this, it still would be nice if that’d be taken into account if someone at anet decides to have a look at stealth in general.

Do you use other sources of stealth outside the CnD? I use a p/d build and CnD on its own just does not cut it. WAY back I was d/d power and even when new to the game found it easier to CnD. There just so many ways to counter it now.

P/d has no real closers either so it can be just as hard to get stealth using CnD and you really need that stealth for the sneak attack. It has no blinds and no built in evades either so it pretty well dodge/stealth.

babazhook.6805:

Do you use other sources of stealth outside the CnD? I use a p/d build and CnD on its own just does not cut it. WAY back I was d/d power and even when new to the game found it easier to CnD. There just so many ways to counter it now.

P/d has no real closers either so it can be just as hard to get stealth using CnD and you really need that stealth for the sneak attack. It has no blinds and no built in evades either so it pretty well dodge/stealth.

I use blinding powder and sometimes SR – just that I’m often stealthed by mesmers and engis in exact the wrong situation – they think they’re doing good but they destroy my burst, sometimes defense and confuse me cause it takes a while until I understand that I have just been stealthed.
True, P/D suffers from that as well. Maybe just all OH dagger sets, depending on your playstyle.

ETA: I’m still using CnD, yes, probably my main stealth source if it lands (but you guys know my endless complaints about this – it’s not just the blocks) – the enemy players were herald and reaper – no blocks (although heralds technically can). The rest was a bunch of npcs. Getting stealth from someone after I landed my CnD is fine but they’re usually not that observant – and since I’m the last power D/D thief left I don’t blame them for that :P

Running P/D I use SA for extra stealth access and HiS.

I am actually at my strongest in an enemy camp or near to a enemy sentry because the npc is an easy target to CnD off of. Their ally becomes their worst asset as it were. Open field with no npcs around is much harder depending on the class. Druid/ranger pets are strong choices for CnD and so are necro pets (although minion masters are annoying to fight because they absorb projectiles really easily if you don’t hit them at point blank range).

Yes I tried HIS but found it was not all that efficient for my own playstyle. The Cooldown too long compared to withdraw and I hate having to stealth for a heal and seeing the SE do nothing because the HIS already removed those conditions. Added to that I just can not afford an interrupt.

Since I use trappers respite I also like the fact I can use withdraw to kite then stand behind the dropped trap as a sort of safety valve allowing more attacks to get in.

Yes this IS a trap build and uses multiple traps. It not a ghost thief.

I use Shadow trap on this more and more and find it very useful. In P/d I find I use all of the skills with regularity. CND for stealth. The Cripple albeit much less than the others, shadowstrike with regularity, that CND to stealth and apply vuln and Body shot for immobs and more vuln. With the traps also aplying vuln I can get some decent stacks on.

I do agree CnD can be hard to land at times and think INI paid for the given outcome is rather steep . Stacking stealth off the d/p set is so much easier and I can see why so many use that route.

As to S/d and its CnD, I found with that build I did not rely on stealth as much. The benefit on the attack is just not there and I would rather just port out and back in.

Yeah. I only use CnD if I want to use it for tactical strike or when fighting other stealth class’s

I don’t use SE, so my HiS is 24 seconds, which is necessary to take it I think. HiS is both a heal and an extra Sneak Attack, so I feel it has greater synergy that way for P/D.

RodOfDeath.5247:

I don’t think stealth is really utilized that much anymore tbh. It seems like dodges is the new cool thing to do.
I main necro, so I instantly hate all thiefs for their stealth, dodges, and cool scarfs and kinky gear they get to sport.

There are even more people using stealth out there.

JahCool.3812:

I suggest you put in yourself in the position of the thief before you complain. Do you know how much nerf they got?

Less than half of what they should have got. I see people putting up messages about internal cool downs in skills, totally useless if the skill lasts for more than a couple of seconds.

Jana.6831:

Rangers can, druids can, engineers can, scrapper can.

Have you tried the supposed Ranger stealth removal skill? First you have to equip it, and in any other circumstance it has no use, so rangers don’t carry it. Second you have to predict when the thief or other toon is going to go invisible and activate it as the thief vanishes. That makes it useless. Oh and before that you have to know the thief is there, so they get to backstab you first, a crit and it could be your downed before you even know you are being attacked.

The problem is that the thief and every other profession is balanced for PvE. sPvP has it’s own balance because of the small area.

WvW needs balancing for itself. Invisibility is far stronger than elsewhere and there should be far less of it available.

Serious.7083:

RodOfDeath.5247:

I don’t think stealth is really utilized that much anymore tbh. It seems like dodges is the new cool thing to do.
I main necro, so I instantly hate all thiefs for their stealth, dodges, and cool scarfs and kinky gear they get to sport.

There are even more people using stealth out there.

JahCool.3812:

I suggest you put in yourself in the position of the thief before you complain. Do you know how much nerf they got?

Less than half of what they should have got. I see people putting up messages about internal cool downs in skills, totally useless if the skill lasts for more than a couple of seconds.

Jana.6831:

Rangers can, druids can, engineers can, scrapper can.

Have you tried the supposed Ranger stealth removal skill? First you have to equip it, and in any other circumstance it has no use, so rangers don’t carry it. Second you have to predict when the thief or other toon is going to go invisible and activate it as the thief vanishes. That makes it useless. Oh and before that you have to know the thief is there, so they get to backstab you first, a crit and it could be your downed before you even know you are being attacked.

The problem is that the thief and every other profession is balanced for PvE. sPvP has it’s own balance because of the small area.

WvW needs balancing for itself. Invisibility is far stronger than elsewhere and there should be far less of it available.

The problem isn’t invisibility by itself the problem is the main culprit on Thief is an exploit with D/P that should have been fixed years ago, and then you have classes like druid and scrapper that shouldn’t have access to stealth as much as they do since they have the highest sustain in game on top of other tools.

If they fix the D/P exploit none of the issues with Thief stealth would be there, then they have to lower Druid and Scrapper stealth access or shave their sustain if they keep their level of stealth access.

Jana.6831:

displayname.8315:

Jana.6831:

hypehype.9047:

and the only class that can uncloak stealth is herald.

nice balance.

Rangers can, druids can, engineers can, scrapper can.

Thats not acceptable. Those classes are weak in WvW, only really good for 1v1 sniping or full mobility troll builds. Maybe scrapper but I’m not buying HoT as a WvW exclusive player.

Did you just start to play this game? You’re calling some of the most OP classes weak?

ETA: I’m honestly a bit annoyed by the ignorance in this thread, so I’ll be out after this post but:
All Elite specs are overpowered – you’re having a hard time as a non elite against no matter what class. Demanding more “unstealth skills” doesn’t help this game one bit.

Missed this bit, yeah, strange that they put those wonderful Elite specs in and almost demolished the game. I sometimes wonder if Colin was planning a disaster? Guess we aren’t going to get an answer to that.

Serious.7083:

Have you tried the supposed Ranger stealth removal skill? First you have to equip it, and in any other circumstance it has no use, so rangers don’t carry it. Second you have to predict when the thief or other toon is going to go invisible and activate it as the thief vanishes. That makes it useless. Oh and before that you have to know the thief is there, so they get to backstab you first, a crit and it could be your downed before you even know you are being attacked.

Oh no the incovenience – I expect to survive condis without any condi clears as well and god beware I have to watch my opponent and think in a fight. You guys really need a buff!

ETA: Btw you don’t need stealth removal skills, but the game and its players are that dumbed down that they think they do. What’s even worse is that they’re too lazy to even use them SMH.

Jana.6831:

ETA: Btw you don’t need stealth removal skills, but the game and its players are that dumbed down that they think they do. What’s even worse is that they’re too lazy to even use them SMH.

True, what we need is all of the stealth removed from the game and see if you really need it. considering all of the other options thieves have I think you will get along fine without.

BTW I didn’t comment on conditions, that used to be far too weak.

Serious.7083:

Jana.6831:

ETA: Btw you don’t need stealth removal skills, but the game and its players are that dumbed down that they think they do. What’s even worse is that they’re too lazy to even use them SMH.

True, what we need is all of the stealth removed from the game and see if you really need it. considering all of the other options thieves have I think you will get along fine without.

BTW I didn’t comment on conditions, that used to be far too weak.

All the other options? You mean evades? If they remove stealth completely they would have to give Thief a whole new core traitline, rework 2 other traitlines rework every weapon set rework core utiliities change…. just saying Stealth should have a been a thief only mechanic since it is tied to almost everything Thief has.

If they remove all Thief they should remove all Passive defenses and invulnerability style skills classes have and see if they really need those since they have a lot of other options, this is how you sound.

Serious.7083:

Jana.6831:

ETA: Btw you don’t need stealth removal skills, but the game and its players are that dumbed down that they think they do. What’s even worse is that they’re too lazy to even use them SMH.

True, what we need is all of the stealth removed from the game and see if you really need it. considering all of the other options thieves have I think you will get along fine without.

BTW I didn’t comment on conditions, that used to be far too weak.

Have you ever considered playing another game?
Because what has happened because of all the whiners is that a good portion of the players have quit because their class has been destroyed.
And if you think that equipping Sic Em is way too much for you, then better don’t try to play thief, otherwise I would recommend it so you rethink your “thieves can live without stealth”.

babazhook.6805:

Yes I tried HIS but found it was not all that efficient for my own playstyle. The Cooldown too long compared to withdraw and I hate having to stealth for a heal and seeing the SE do nothing because the HIS already removed those conditions. Added to that I just can not afford an interrupt.

Since I use trappers respite I also like the fact I can use withdraw to kite then stand behind the dropped trap as a sort of safety valve allowing more attacks to get in.

Yes this IS a trap build and uses multiple traps. It not a ghost thief.

I use Shadow trap on this more and more and find it very useful. In P/d I find I use all of the skills with regularity. CND for stealth. The Cripple albeit much less than the others, shadowstrike with regularity, that CND to stealth and apply vuln and Body shot for immobs and more vuln. With the traps also aplying vuln I can get some decent stacks on.

I do agree CnD can be hard to land at times and think INI paid for the given outcome is rather steep . Stacking stealth off the d/p set is so much easier and I can see why so many use that route.

As to S/d and its CnD, I found with that build I did not rely on stealth as much. The benefit on the attack is just not there and I would rather just port out and back in.

Generally speaking CnD has issues. Too difficult to land | too expensive | consumes BV over the stealth attack, and OH dagger itself has issues with the stealth attack ICD since in most situations while using an OH dagger on any kit it’s not worth using 2/3/4 if the intent was to attack from stealth, since the skills are so different than what most kits offer.

I personally love Tac Strike. It has amazing value to either CC and interrupt someone and open windows for FS/LS or deny a bomb via the blind. Different strokes, I guess, but I’m not fond of IS/IR since the change.

Jana.6831:

Serious.7083:

Jana.6831:

ETA: Btw you don’t need stealth removal skills, but the game and its players are that dumbed down that they think they do. What’s even worse is that they’re too lazy to even use them SMH.

True, what we need is all of the stealth removed from the game and see if you really need it. considering all of the other options thieves have I think you will get along fine without.

BTW I didn’t comment on conditions, that used to be far too weak.

Have you ever considered playing another game?
Because what has happened because of all the whiners is that a good portion of the players have quit because their class has been destroyed.
And if you think that equipping Sic Em is way too much for you, then better don’t try to play thief, otherwise I would recommend it so you rethink your “thieves can live without stealth”.

Daredevil can live without stealth. Core thief, not so much.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Serious.7083:

Jana.6831:

ETA: Btw you don’t need stealth removal skills, but the game and its players are that dumbed down that they think they do. What’s even worse is that they’re too lazy to even use them SMH.

True, what we need is all of the stealth removed from the game and see if you really need it. considering all of the other options thieves have I think you will get along fine without.

BTW I didn’t comment on conditions, that used to be far too weak.

All the other options? You mean evades? If they remove stealth completely they would have to give Thief a whole new core traitline, rework 2 other traitlines rework every weapon set rework core utiliities change…. just saying Stealth should have a been a thief only mechanic since it is tied to almost everything Thief has.

If they remove all Thief they should remove all Passive defenses and invulnerability style skills classes have and see if they really need those since they have a lot of other options, this is how you sound.

Before u go apesh.t try a proper daredevil spec without stealth.

Caius.8094:

Other than players that use the ANET design, am I the only player that thinks attacking while stealth’d and staying stealth’d is stupid? GW2 is the only MMO where someone can attack from stealth, go back to stealth or stay in it due to kitten poor programing and exploits… do the dev’s even know this.. do they even play anymore?

This is a L2P issue three classes completely counters stealth in the game. Druid, Scrapper, and Herald. If you are having a problem with the stealthing fool’s playstyle. Then learn to play instead of crying on the forums because you are too lazy to figure out how to kill x or too lazy to try and learn other playstyles in this game. Every time I see a thief when I’m on my Herald, Scrapper, more so my Druid, I think to myself “Free bag if this thief is a fool and tries to attack me.” Have yet to die to a Thief 1v1 in WvW on those professions.

In conclusion, people should just stop being lazy and L2P.

Mikhael.2391:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Serious.7083:

Jana.6831:

ETA: Btw you don’t need stealth removal skills, but the game and its players are that dumbed down that they think they do. What’s even worse is that they’re too lazy to even use them SMH.

True, what we need is all of the stealth removed from the game and see if you really need it. considering all of the other options thieves have I think you will get along fine without.

BTW I didn’t comment on conditions, that used to be far too weak.

All the other options? You mean evades? If they remove stealth completely they would have to give Thief a whole new core traitline, rework 2 other traitlines rework every weapon set rework core utiliities change…. just saying Stealth should have a been a thief only mechanic since it is tied to almost everything Thief has.

If they remove all Thief they should remove all Passive defenses and invulnerability style skills classes have and see if they really need those since they have a lot of other options, this is how you sound.

Before u go apesh.t try a proper daredevil spec without stealth.

Oh you mean the staff build evade spam or the D/D DB spam? I have tried those They don’t have all other options they have no burst heals, no invulns, 1 block skill granted on a low CD, so go ahead and when the new elite spec comes out guess what no third dodge no staff and so on, D/P still uses stealth pretty heavily, and the core of Thief designs is based on stealth. So unless they give Thieves a lot more sustain through Heals and invulnerables/Blocks and everything else that all the other classes had you can’t take away Thief Stealth, and it would require a complete overhaul of the Thief since 1 traitline is based soley on Stealth and 2 others have stealth traits, 1 heal 2 utilities apply stealth and every weapon has a stealth attack.

I don’t think people understand what removing stealth entails. Now the issues people have with stealth is 1 an exploit that allows ridiculous amounts of stealth stacking and classes that have stealth that shouldn’t i.e. Druid and scrapper and to an extent Mesmer.

So yes if they remove stealth completely they should remove all the passives and invulnerables from all the other classes it is equivalent.

i would be more scared of a deck out head shot thief then stealth thief any day of the week lol.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Mikhael.2391:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Serious.7083:

Jana.6831:

ETA: Btw you don’t need stealth removal skills, but the game and its players are that dumbed down that they think they do. What’s even worse is that they’re too lazy to even use them SMH.

True, what we need is all of the stealth removed from the game and see if you really need it. considering all of the other options thieves have I think you will get along fine without.

BTW I didn’t comment on conditions, that used to be far too weak.

All the other options? You mean evades? If they remove stealth completely they would have to give Thief a whole new core traitline, rework 2 other traitlines rework every weapon set rework core utiliities change…. just saying Stealth should have a been a thief only mechanic since it is tied to almost everything Thief has.

If they remove all Thief they should remove all Passive defenses and invulnerability style skills classes have and see if they really need those since they have a lot of other options, this is how you sound.

Before u go apesh.t try a proper daredevil spec without stealth.

Oh you mean the staff build evade spam or the D/D DB spam? I have tried those They don’t have all other options they have no burst heals, no invulns, 1 block skill granted on a low CD, so go ahead and when the new elite spec comes out guess what no third dodge no staff and so on, D/P still uses stealth pretty heavily, and the core of Thief designs is based on stealth. So unless they give Thieves a lot more sustain through Heals and invulnerables/Blocks and everything else that all the other classes had you can’t take away Thief Stealth, and it would require a complete overhaul of the Thief since 1 traitline is based soley on Stealth and 2 others have stealth traits, 1 heal 2 utilities apply stealth and every weapon has a stealth attack.

I don’t think people understand what removing stealth entails. Now the issues people have with stealth is 1 an exploit that allows ridiculous amounts of stealth stacking and classes that have stealth that shouldn’t i.e. Druid and scrapper and to an extent Mesmer.

So yes if they remove stealth completely they should remove all the passives and invulnerables from all the other classes it is equivalent.

I dont agree with a build that allows killing people before getting out of stealth. From my experience from other games stealth should be removed when receiving direct damage while in stealth for ex and no more stacking stealth at all if u wanna keep stealth ingame. I agree on the druid stealth, it already has so much sustain that that only makes it worst. Scrapper tbh i just kill gyros or aoe around them till it pops out. Depending on what im playing it doesnt bother me nearly as much as thief.

Mikhael.2391:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Mikhael.2391:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Serious.7083:

Jana.6831:

ETA: Btw you don’t need stealth removal skills, but the game and its players are that dumbed down that they think they do. What’s even worse is that they’re too lazy to even use them SMH.

True, what we need is all of the stealth removed from the game and see if you really need it. considering all of the other options thieves have I think you will get along fine without.

BTW I didn’t comment on conditions, that used to be far too weak.

All the other options? You mean evades? If they remove stealth completely they would have to give Thief a whole new core traitline, rework 2 other traitlines rework every weapon set rework core utiliities change…. just saying Stealth should have a been a thief only mechanic since it is tied to almost everything Thief has.

If they remove all Thief they should remove all Passive defenses and invulnerability style skills classes have and see if they really need those since they have a lot of other options, this is how you sound.

Before u go apesh.t try a proper daredevil spec without stealth.

Oh you mean the staff build evade spam or the D/D DB spam? I have tried those They don’t have all other options they have no burst heals, no invulns, 1 block skill granted on a low CD, so go ahead and when the new elite spec comes out guess what no third dodge no staff and so on, D/P still uses stealth pretty heavily, and the core of Thief designs is based on stealth. So unless they give Thieves a lot more sustain through Heals and invulnerables/Blocks and everything else that all the other classes had you can’t take away Thief Stealth, and it would require a complete overhaul of the Thief since 1 traitline is based soley on Stealth and 2 others have stealth traits, 1 heal 2 utilities apply stealth and every weapon has a stealth attack.

I don’t think people understand what removing stealth entails. Now the issues people have with stealth is 1 an exploit that allows ridiculous amounts of stealth stacking and classes that have stealth that shouldn’t i.e. Druid and scrapper and to an extent Mesmer.

So yes if they remove stealth completely they should remove all the passives and invulnerables from all the other classes it is equivalent.

I dont agree with a build that allows killing people before getting out of stealth. From my experience from other games stealth should be removed when receiving direct damage while in stealth for ex and no more stacking stealth at all if u wanna keep stealth ingame. I agree on the druid stealth, it already has so much sustain that that only makes it worst. Scrapper tbh i just kill gyros or aoe around them till it pops out. Depending on what im playing it doesnt bother me nearly as much as thief.

Direct damage already removes stealth and Anet Nerfed all Stealth attacks last patch on top of that, the only spec that doesn’t remove stealth is the “Ghost Thief” which shouldn’t exist yes and what makes it broken is the the D/P stealth stacking exploit, if they fix the exploit that build will not be broken anymore.

Stealth is only a problem in some cases the Thief D/P exploit, Druid Stealth and Scrapper stealth and to an extent PU Condi Mesmer.

TL:DR

Anet needs to fix the D/P stealth stacking exploit, remove stealth from classes it wasn’t designed for, boom Stealth problem solved

To be blunt, the only thing that makes a thief in stealth hard to kill while being attacked is Shadow Shot’s guaranteed blind, because the skill does huge damage and prevents fast-reaction turnarounds and punishment.

Stealth already is lost as soon as the thief deals direct damage. This applies to all classes, too.

Fight against OH dagger and you’ll realize how insignificant the mechanic can be, and how x/P is what defines the success of stealth on the thief, and because of the thief’s innate weakness as a profession in the current state of the game, what defines the success of the thief at all.

Mind you, I say thief. Daredevil is another story, but Daredevil will never not be played because it nullifies an overwhelming majority of the weaknesses the core profession suffers from.

DeceiverX.8361:

To be fair, ranged multi-hit burst available on skills like MR pretty much hard-counters bark skin, since the first clone will take off the reduction and the rest will hit for full damage, and the weakness is applied within only 240 range.

If stealth is intermittent, single-target abilities work fine. All ranged attacks in the game regardless of weapon, if made against a target before it enters stealth, hit the target. So long as it happens even as the pre-cast is starting, the abilities will land. S/X ele suffers from the matchup profession-wise because its primary source of damage comes from gimmick options in traits like FA, it doesn’t deal with being blinded well, and it pretty-heavily depends on using a lot of skills in rapid succession with a preset rotation. Rotation-heavy play can be countered by a lot of good thieves (particularly on D/P) to begin with, and since the Ele in general lacks oppressively busted stats and the thief isn’t nerfed in WvW like it is in sPvP due to the way stats on amulets work, there’s a lot going against the ele. S/X ele is only really countered by D/P or Bound PH pistol from the thief being able to recover and position better while running the ele dry or a hyper-aggressive boon-rip evasion S/D build. Against OH dagger or core thief not running D/P, S/x ele arguably has the edge from AoE blinds.

Sindrener is indeed an incredible player, and in WvW, the thief is MUCH better off than it is in sPvP. There’s a reason the class has stayed played in WvW for years despite being considered so poor in sPvP. Put simply, relative to other professions’s losses, the thief just by entering sPvP loses an upwards of 25% of its damage. On more aggressive, damage-oriented builds, this number (again, this is relative to other professions’ losses) sees almost a 50% decrease. This is attributed solely to the amulet system, boons, and its interaction with how the thief achieves its damage. Mind you, I’m not going to talk down Sindrener – he’s the best in the game for a reason, much better than me – but it’s very important to keep this in mind when taking different perspectives of sPvP players and WvW players. The fact that until the recent changes I was able to see fantastic success in WvW playing what’s been long-argued as the single worst thief build, without the Daredevil (and so bad in sPvP I moved to classes with < 50 hours on them with much better results) kind of exacerbates this. The thief is certainly capable when it’s being played on an optimal build in an optimal environment by the best player in the game, but such a situation begs whether or not that’s really and truthfully an adequate representation of the class itself in multiple environments.

Yeah I know about the tracking in stealth if something is cast before or queued up before stealth but S/X ele has very few of them, certainly nothing worth worrying about. It’s also countered easily by most classes that can jump in and out of stealth or stack it as no target = no damage by the ele. I know they have a few AoE abilities but most have clear wind ups ensuring you don’t often get caught in them.

This is one of the problems I have with stealth, especially the camping of it, you shut down a lot of abilities that require targets to be cast making the fight very much in favour of the class that can stealth. Meta vs meta it’s not as big an issue but anything off meta? Well you can get shafted very easily.

Yeah I linked a video of the fights or to the YouTube of the guy that I saw beat sindreneer, it’s a good set of fights and both played exceptionally well. As far as DD thief goes, same thing with a lot of core mesmer builds/weapons. Pistol, focus and sword offhand were gimmicky weapons to say the least and the HoT creep only pushed them further into the never use category for WvW. Even core PU power shatter only just works in WvW but you’re screwed without condi clears so have to either play extremely well or run inspiration reducing your burst. Something chrono can afford to give up and certainly in the condition mesmer that is common and the pledge trait is bonkers overpowered with PU.

Tbh I think the only classes that have seen a flat out increase to build diversity and weapons to use are guardians, warriors, rangers (offhand all add to survivability and or offence now) and possibly reapers though I see most of them running sceptre rather than anything else.

As far as stealth goes it isn’t just the classes that can heal up and refresh while in stealth (SA DP thief could always do this and was very forgivable for it) it’s the removal of reprisal and counterplay that stealth supplies that is also a problem. Both are to blame in equal measures in my opinion, theres no penalty for stacking stealth and likewise these classes really don’t need stealth to be as survivable as they are.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Mikhael.2391:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Mikhael.2391:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Serious.7083:

Jana.6831:

ETA: Btw you don’t need stealth removal skills, but the game and its players are that dumbed down that they think they do. What’s even worse is that they’re too lazy to even use them SMH.

True, what we need is all of the stealth removed from the game and see if you really need it. considering all of the other options thieves have I think you will get along fine without.

BTW I didn’t comment on conditions, that used to be far too weak.

All the other options? You mean evades? If they remove stealth completely they would have to give Thief a whole new core traitline, rework 2 other traitlines rework every weapon set rework core utiliities change…. just saying Stealth should have a been a thief only mechanic since it is tied to almost everything Thief has.

If they remove all Thief they should remove all Passive defenses and invulnerability style skills classes have and see if they really need those since they have a lot of other options, this is how you sound.

Before u go apesh.t try a proper daredevil spec without stealth.

Oh you mean the staff build evade spam or the D/D DB spam? I have tried those They don’t have all other options they have no burst heals, no invulns, 1 block skill granted on a low CD, so go ahead and when the new elite spec comes out guess what no third dodge no staff and so on, D/P still uses stealth pretty heavily, and the core of Thief designs is based on stealth. So unless they give Thieves a lot more sustain through Heals and invulnerables/Blocks and everything else that all the other classes had you can’t take away Thief Stealth, and it would require a complete overhaul of the Thief since 1 traitline is based soley on Stealth and 2 others have stealth traits, 1 heal 2 utilities apply stealth and every weapon has a stealth attack.

I don’t think people understand what removing stealth entails. Now the issues people have with stealth is 1 an exploit that allows ridiculous amounts of stealth stacking and classes that have stealth that shouldn’t i.e. Druid and scrapper and to an extent Mesmer.

So yes if they remove stealth completely they should remove all the passives and invulnerables from all the other classes it is equivalent.

I dont agree with a build that allows killing people before getting out of stealth. From my experience from other games stealth should be removed when receiving direct damage while in stealth for ex and no more stacking stealth at all if u wanna keep stealth ingame. I agree on the druid stealth, it already has so much sustain that that only makes it worst. Scrapper tbh i just kill gyros or aoe around them till it pops out. Depending on what im playing it doesnt bother me nearly as much as thief.

Direct damage already removes stealth and Anet Nerfed all Stealth attacks last patch on top of that, the only spec that doesn’t remove stealth is the “Ghost Thief” which shouldn’t exist yes and what makes it broken is the the D/P stealth stacking exploit, if they fix the exploit that build will not be broken anymore.

Stealth is only a problem in some cases the Thief D/P exploit, Druid Stealth and Scrapper stealth and to an extent PU Condi Mesmer.

TL:DR

Anet needs to fix the D/P stealth stacking exploit, remove stealth from classes it wasn’t designed for, boom Stealth problem solved

What i meant was getting hit by direct damage. Thats how usually works.

Mikhael.2391:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Mikhael.2391:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Mikhael.2391:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Serious.7083:

Jana.6831:

ETA: Btw you don’t need stealth removal skills, but the game and its players are that dumbed down that they think they do. What’s even worse is that they’re too lazy to even use them SMH.

True, what we need is all of the stealth removed from the game and see if you really need it. considering all of the other options thieves have I think you will get along fine without.

BTW I didn’t comment on conditions, that used to be far too weak.

All the other options? You mean evades? If they remove stealth completely they would have to give Thief a whole new core traitline, rework 2 other traitlines rework every weapon set rework core utiliities change…. just saying Stealth should have a been a thief only mechanic since it is tied to almost everything Thief has.

If they remove all Thief they should remove all Passive defenses and invulnerability style skills classes have and see if they really need those since they have a lot of other options, this is how you sound.

Before u go apesh.t try a proper daredevil spec without stealth.

Oh you mean the staff build evade spam or the D/D DB spam? I have tried those They don’t have all other options they have no burst heals, no invulns, 1 block skill granted on a low CD, so go ahead and when the new elite spec comes out guess what no third dodge no staff and so on, D/P still uses stealth pretty heavily, and the core of Thief designs is based on stealth. So unless they give Thieves a lot more sustain through Heals and invulnerables/Blocks and everything else that all the other classes had you can’t take away Thief Stealth, and it would require a complete overhaul of the Thief since 1 traitline is based soley on Stealth and 2 others have stealth traits, 1 heal 2 utilities apply stealth and every weapon has a stealth attack.

I don’t think people understand what removing stealth entails. Now the issues people have with stealth is 1 an exploit that allows ridiculous amounts of stealth stacking and classes that have stealth that shouldn’t i.e. Druid and scrapper and to an extent Mesmer.

So yes if they remove stealth completely they should remove all the passives and invulnerables from all the other classes it is equivalent.

I dont agree with a build that allows killing people before getting out of stealth. From my experience from other games stealth should be removed when receiving direct damage while in stealth for ex and no more stacking stealth at all if u wanna keep stealth ingame. I agree on the druid stealth, it already has so much sustain that that only makes it worst. Scrapper tbh i just kill gyros or aoe around them till it pops out. Depending on what im playing it doesnt bother me nearly as much as thief.

Direct damage already removes stealth and Anet Nerfed all Stealth attacks last patch on top of that, the only spec that doesn’t remove stealth is the “Ghost Thief” which shouldn’t exist yes and what makes it broken is the the D/P stealth stacking exploit, if they fix the exploit that build will not be broken anymore.

Stealth is only a problem in some cases the Thief D/P exploit, Druid Stealth and Scrapper stealth and to an extent PU Condi Mesmer.

TL:DR

Anet needs to fix the D/P stealth stacking exploit, remove stealth from classes it wasn’t designed for, boom Stealth problem solved

What i meant was getting hit by direct damage. Thats how usually works.

Too much mindless Aoe in game on low cd for that to be eve feasible

apharma.3741:

As far as stealth goes it isn’t just the classes that can heal up and refresh while in stealth (SA DP thief could always do this and was very forgivable for it) it’s the removal of reprisal and counterplay that stealth supplies that is also a problem. Both are to blame in equal measures in my opinion, theres no penalty for stacking stealth and likewise these classes really don’t need stealth to be as survivable as they are.

Other classes can do that better and DrD can even do that “better” than SA – coupled it is pretty nasty, yes. But it’s not “classes” who can do that, it’s one thief set that can: D/P.
And there is plenty of counterplay for a thief’s stealth. Not so much counterplay when it comes to mesmer/chrono, druid/ranger and scrapper – but even there it’s possible.
Just saying.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Mikhael.2391:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Serious.7083:

Jana.6831:

ETA: Btw you don’t need stealth removal skills, but the game and its players are that dumbed down that they think they do. What’s even worse is that they’re too lazy to even use them SMH.

True, what we need is all of the stealth removed from the game and see if you really need it. considering all of the other options thieves have I think you will get along fine without.

BTW I didn’t comment on conditions, that used to be far too weak.

All the other options? You mean evades? If they remove stealth completely they would have to give Thief a whole new core traitline, rework 2 other traitlines rework every weapon set rework core utiliities change…. just saying Stealth should have a been a thief only mechanic since it is tied to almost everything Thief has.

If they remove all Thief they should remove all Passive defenses and invulnerability style skills classes have and see if they really need those since they have a lot of other options, this is how you sound.

Before u go apesh.t try a proper daredevil spec without stealth.

Oh you mean the staff build evade spam or the D/D DB spam? I have tried those They don’t have all other options they have no burst heals, no invulns, 1 block skill granted on a low CD, so go ahead and when the new elite spec comes out guess what no third dodge no staff and so on, D/P still uses stealth pretty heavily, and the core of Thief designs is based on stealth. So unless they give Thieves a lot more sustain through Heals and invulnerables/Blocks and everything else that all the other classes had you can’t take away Thief Stealth, and it would require a complete overhaul of the Thief since 1 traitline is based soley on Stealth and 2 others have stealth traits, 1 heal 2 utilities apply stealth and every weapon has a stealth attack.

I don’t think people understand what removing stealth entails. Now the issues people have with stealth is 1 an exploit that allows ridiculous amounts of stealth stacking and classes that have stealth that shouldn’t i.e. Druid and scrapper and to an extent Mesmer.

So yes if they remove stealth completely they should remove all the passives and invulnerables from all the other classes it is equivalent.

D/D death blossom spam isn’t a “real” build. Try something like s/d or s/p (with out bound)

As for the exploit? What do you mean?

Fat Disgrace.4275:

D/D death blossom spam isn’t a “real” build. Try something like s/d or s/p (with out bound)

As for the exploit? What do you mean?

https://youtu.be/DMWfupJesJY
This is the exploit.
I can’t tell you how to do it since I don’t even know I’m exploiting.

ETA: And for the naysayers: This is four leaps – I just can’t get my mouse to the stealth icon fast enough. Try to copy exactly what I did (isn’t that hard – remember; I’m a noob) and have a friend watching that icon.

ETA² And what I predicted has happened: I’m now being pestered per PM that this aren’t full leaps and that I’m exploiting the camera. Yeah well thanks for proving me right – could we now retract from playing Kindergarten, please?

ETA³: Still not full leaps, no?
https://youtu.be/4c0XQOLxRmw

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Mikhael.2391:

What i meant was getting hit by direct damage. Thats how usually works.

Too much mindless Aoe in game on low cd for that to be eve feasible

So stealth should stay a broken snoozefest because you can’t avoid getting hit? Sounds more like a L2P issue.

That’s how stealth usually works in pretty much every other game ever, wonder if there is a reason for that.

Jana.6831:

apharma.3741:

As far as stealth goes it isn’t just the classes that can heal up and refresh while in stealth (SA DP thief could always do this and was very forgivable for it) it’s the removal of reprisal and counterplay that stealth supplies that is also a problem. Both are to blame in equal measures in my opinion, theres no penalty for stacking stealth and likewise these classes really don’t need stealth to be as survivable as they are.

Other classes can do that better and DrD can even do that “better” than SA – coupled it is pretty nasty, yes. But it’s not “classes” who can do that, it’s one thief set that can: D/P.
And there is plenty of counterplay for a thief’s stealth. Not so much counterplay when it comes to mesmer/chrono, druid/ranger and scrapper – but even there it’s possible.
Just saying.

A lot of counterplay in this game is built upon cast times coupled with animation tells as a warning something is happening, stealth removes this completely. The frequency and prevalence of stealth is making this a big issue as well as how much you can stack. I mean look at berserkers in WvW, I’m sure we’ve all been hit by that arc divider which is practically instant under quickness.

Also you seem to misunderstand how these other classes are traiting, most are picking up a defensive line, class line and the elite spec. If you were to have a similar spec on thief it would be DrD, Trickery and either SA or Acro while running marauder. Thief is full of stuff with next to no counterplay as any other class, instant cast abilities usually have little counterplay as they happen immediately and thief has a high amount of it too.

When’s the last time you fought a marauder/zerk mix druid picking up beast mastery and marksmanship or a berserker with Str, discipline, berserker? I don’t know any power build that is currently picking their damage trait line except thief, even mesmers aren’t usually running a power line anymore.

Edit: exception is Rev, as always because it’s a special kind of BS

Heres some of the duels from some other night this week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUT_suDYLh8

I got some against rev both invo/retri if interested ill post them too

Apharma: You’re wrong: You could replace “thief” with any other class and your rants would have the same credibility – and that’s what I meant with “unicorns”. I have no idea who the thief was that broke your heart but it still seems to hurt. Maybe it was my dad because you just

I gave you a wide birth

And you were complaining about thieves picking a damage line, and didn’t explain it – I can’t read thoughts, sorry – so if you mean something in particular you need to explain it – but ranting is so much more fun if the other can’t even know what you’re talking about, right?

Anyway: DrD is crap, yes, as is every other Elite. This section is about stealth though and it’s very easy to stop a thief from doing so. That was my point.
Have a nice day.