Guild Wars 2

bluri.2653:

Heres some of the duels from some other night this week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUT_suDYLh8

I got some against rev both invo/retri if interested ill post them too

Thanks for the video, it’s nice to see it from your perspective especially the many many many fights with Feint Fate.

It would be nice to see the duels vs Rev as I find those quite annoying too, I’ve seen you duel a few times but not against rev.

bluri.2653:

Heres some of the duels from some other night this week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUT_suDYLh8

I got some against rev both invo/retri if interested ill post them too

You guys in the first tier seem to be bored.
It’s nice to see that even you have to guess what your opponent will do next. It’s also nice to see how effective BP seems to be against dragonhunters.

But why on earth didn’t you start a new thread? This one is riddled with me. You really should do so.

I cba to start a thread:)

Here apharma:

https://youtu.be/BMwO-_IoQLU

https://youtu.be/jcIy5OEK0Us

https://youtu.be/vHSbm4Q26IM

https://youtu.be/RFSo6wNULG0

bluri.2653:

I cba to start a thread:)

Here apharma:

https://youtu.be/BMwO-_IoQLU

https://youtu.be/jcIy5OEK0Us

https://youtu.be/vHSbm4Q26IM

https://youtu.be/RFSo6wNULG0

Oh wow just when I was getting bored, thanks.

Looked like it was a tough fight for you or at least it takes a lot longer to kite out the guys defences and pick away at him from afar with interrupts. I wish I had your patience.

Invo dies quick i have some where i kill in 20~ but retri is slow esp cus they run food like -10%dmg etc tougness stones. And u need to avoid most #3 from retri so keep distance soak lot of endurance means u need to kite a lot sadly. Easier against invo cus u can interrupt

bluri.2653:

Invo dies quick i have some where i kill in 20~ but retri is slow esp cus they run food like -10%dmg etc tougness stones. And u need to avoid most #3 from retri so keep distance soak lot of endurance means u need to kite a lot sadly. Easier against invo cus u can interrupt

Yeah I used to run powerblock but no longer do because Rev, DH and Scrapper all have high stab uptime, or at least the ones I ran into did, so put more onto MW damage. Your endurance management was very good, really nice kiting and quick reactions.

Given me some ideas on how to manage them myself so thanks for the videos and the advice.

Because stealth is hard to deal with after HoT.

I understand. Honest! <3

Famine.7915:

Because stealth is hard to deal with after HoT.

I understand. Honest! <3

Yeah, especially when seeing “the best D/P thief” using only interrupts and black powder.
Maybe that’s why he insisted on posting here. You’ll never be famous with an attitude like that. :P

Jana.6831:

Famine.7915:

Because stealth is hard to deal with after HoT.

I understand. Honest! <3

Yeah, especially when seeing “the best D/P thief” using only interrupts and black powder.
Maybe that’s why he insisted on posting here. You’ll never be famous with an attitude like that. :P

Huh? Theres a lot more into that other than “just interrupting and black powder” bait cds, trigger passives, count CD, count passive CD… I dont even know where to begin at when you say its all about interrupts and black powder. Most important thing is to read your opponents thats the biggest difference. And fame? I couldn’t care less about it

bluri.2653:

Jana.6831:

Famine.7915:

Because stealth is hard to deal with after HoT.

I understand. Honest! <3

Yeah, especially when seeing “the best D/P thief” using only interrupts and black powder.
Maybe that’s why he insisted on posting here. You’ll never be famous with an attitude like that. :P

Huh? Theres a lot more into that other than “just interrupting and black powder” bait cds, trigger passives, count CD, count passive CD… I dont even know where to begin at when you say its all about interrupts and black powder. Most important thing is to read your opponents thats the biggest difference. And fame? I couldn’t care less about it

I know, but you rarely stealth – that was what I was referring to.

ETA: And actually are you reading your opponents or just know how to counter their classes best? As in the first video one of the chronos it looked as if you were more or less “just spamming” headshot.

Ah my bad missunderstanding, the times i rely on stealth is if i want a big reset, sometimes against DH/Revs i need to do long restealths (thats where BP comes in very handy) esp if a DH RF against me i need full reset more or less:)

“ETA: And actually are you reading your opponents or just know how to counter their classes best? As in the first video one of the chronos it looked as if you were more or less “just spamming” headshot.”

I can point out certain things I already said to myself in the head in the duels

Many times you can see me shadowshot to the mes without even damaging him (u can see him pop distortion on occasions in the clip, if u want ill point it out)
Sometimes i shadowshot against him in stealth to make him jump, sometimes i just headshot with basi to stun him to trigger distortion/blink

The guards i predict the pull (at least most of the normal dh’s the random ones makes no sense sometimes)

Perfect example on where i know he will pull me, i even say it out irl lol: https://youtu.be/OUT_suDYLh8?t=234
including reading the knockback shot (idk the name)

you can see on other vods where i comment (in spvp where i actually say what they will do before they do it)

https://youtu.be/LidcoMBAusQ?t=614

https://youtu.be/LidcoMBAusQ?t=522

this is just some of the things i could write so much more but it feels silly, i hope you see what i am saying

Hey sind, any duels vs thief you happen to have recorded as well?

VciouSidewinder.4029:

Hey sind, any duels vs thief you happen to have recorded as well?

nah these are the only duels i have, and i mean i sat that night and dueled for probably 3-4 hours and i got 20mins of duels so i didn’t record much sadly

I got some scrapper duels from some week ago tho if that is interesting

sure, whyy not

https://youtu.be/T_0puJ6lLbg some random condi engi first but then meta engi duels after

bluri.2653:

this is just some of the things i could write so much more but it feels silly, i hope you see what i am saying

I know what you mean – it’s a mixture of both, I guess.

Eval.2371:

---

Edit: https://vid.me/SOC2 when its done uploading… I have the upload speed of a dying camel. So it may be a bit.

The first clip I am not using any movement keys to prove that leaping back does put you back into your original position. However it does not count as a leap finisher. You have to move forward or to the side to get it to count. Moving takes up time, which reduces the window to leap finisher multiple times. At full range you barely have time to leap 4 times. It can be done tho.

Second part is showing the shortening mechanic (which I’ll admit I suck at as someone who plays purely action cam/combat mode mod) that a lot of theifs rely on. Aiming top down shortens heartseeker range. I’m still going to go out say you probably play top down normally to see more, as most people do, I don’t think you realize that this shortens all leap finishers. That said it is possible to 4 leap without this, but for the majority of the base this is their bread and butter and it’s considered a bug.

Did you edit your post because I just found that video now – very exhausting to watch and sorry, but I can’t read your bubbles.
Why did you even make that video if you already said in this post that 4 leaps are possible? A bit unneccessary to make all of this, no?
I’m using WASD additionally to my mouse.
So, even with the camera “exploit” how can it be an exploit if it is already possible without shortening anything?

Note that I don’t play D/P. Better get gut, guys!

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Mikhael.2391:

Before u go apesh.t try a proper daredevil spec without stealth.

Oh you mean the staff build evade spam or the D/D DB spam? I have tried those They don’t have all other options they have no burst heals, no invulns, 1 block skill granted on a low CD, so go ahead and when the new elite spec comes out guess what no third dodge no staff and so on, D/P still uses stealth pretty heavily, and the core of Thief designs is based on stealth. So unless they give Thieves a lot more sustain through Heals and invulnerables/Blocks and everything else that all the other classes had you can’t take away Thief Stealth, and it would require a complete overhaul of the Thief since 1 traitline is based soley on Stealth and 2 others have stealth traits, 1 heal 2 utilities apply stealth and every weapon has a stealth attack.

I don’t think people understand what removing stealth entails. Now the issues people have with stealth is 1 an exploit that allows ridiculous amounts of stealth stacking and classes that have stealth that shouldn’t i.e. Druid and scrapper and to an extent Mesmer.

So yes if they remove stealth completely they should remove all the passives and invulnerables from all the other classes it is equivalent.

You can play with limited to no stealth on very easily on s/d, p/d, staff and s/p very easily. Bad players will spam dodge. All of these sets have burst potential, and any set that is lacking can pick up fist flurry very easily.

I don’t agree that gutting by giving out tones of reveals is the answer either. I think what a lot of people realize is that stealth attacks in the current form are not worth the effort, from there you can deduct why even have stealth, if our mechanic based around it is pointless.

Jana.6831:

Did you edit your post because I just found that video now – very exhausting to watch and sorry, but I can’t read your bubbles.
Why did you even make that video if you already said in this post that 4 leaps are possible? A bit unneccessary to make all of this, no?
I’m using WASD additionally to my mouse.
So, even with the camera “exploit” how can it be an exploit if it is already possible without shortening anything?

Note that I don’t play D/P. Better get gut, guys!

Yes I did edit my post to add the video link and the comment below the line.
Yea, the video is kitten quality, GW2 bottlenecks my ancient cpu so its low quality & terribly fragmented, despite being constant 63 fps and not fragmented in game.

Why did I make a video?

• To point out the two things you mentioned, one of which was that leaping back in is automatically a leap finisher which is not unless you couple it with movement.
• To show that heartseeker shortening (which I agree your not doing & agree that I suck at doing b/c I normally use action cam) makes a 4 leap inside black powder trivial, which you cannot do on action camera.

I don’t play d/p much either, I’m primary s/x.

Eval.2371:

Yes I did edit my post to add the video link and the comment below the line.
Yea, the video is kitten quality, GW2 bottlenecks my ancient cpu so its low quality & terribly fragmented, despite being constant 63 fps and not fragmented in game.

Why did I make a video?

• To point out the two things you mentioned, one of which was that leaping back in is automatically a leap finisher which is not unless you couple it with movement.
• To show that heartseeker shortening (which I agree your not doing & agree that I suck at doing b/c I normally use action cam) makes a 4 leap inside black powder trivial, which you cannot do on action camera.

I don’t play d/p either, I’m primary s/x.

Thank you (I mean it).
I also got how people can “manipulate” action cam for shorter leaps – that was a no brainer. What I didn’t get is that leaping 4 times which I did the first time I equipped D/P was a problem to some. Apart from me not being a fan of action cam anyway as that thing brought more problems than anything (and question is if they’ll be able to fix it without messing up everything else) : Should we really nerf something because some can do it and others can’t?
In that case I want the camera movements of havoc (thief player) please – because I’m honestly jealous of how precise everything he does is.
And if you spin this further: should stealth really be nerfed just because it confuses some?

Jana.6831:

Eval.2371:

Yes I did edit my post to add the video link and the comment below the line.
Yea, the video is kitten quality, GW2 bottlenecks my ancient cpu so its low quality & terribly fragmented, despite being constant 63 fps and not fragmented in game.

Why did I make a video?

• To point out the two things you mentioned, one of which was that leaping back in is automatically a leap finisher which is not unless you couple it with movement.
• To show that heartseeker shortening (which I agree your not doing & agree that I suck at doing b/c I normally use action cam) makes a 4 leap inside black powder trivial, which you cannot do on action camera.

I don’t play d/p either, I’m primary s/x.

Thank you (I mean it).
I also got how people can “manipulate” action cam for shorter leaps – that was a no brainer. What I didn’t get is that leaping 4 times which I did the first time I equipped D/P was a problem to some. Apart from me not being a fan of action cam anyway as that thing brought more problems than anything (and question is if they’ll be able to fix it without messing up everything else) : Should we really nerf something because some can do it and others can’t?
In that case I want the camera movements of havoc (thief player) please – because I’m honestly jealous of how precise everything he does is.
And if you spin this further: should stealth really be nerfed just because it confuses some?

I apologize, I was wrong you can do it without using the using the camera exploit.

keep fighting you 2.

Who 2? I’m fighting with everyone around here :P

Come at me, cabbage!

displayname.8315:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Mikhael.2391:

What i meant was getting hit by direct damage. Thats how usually works.

Too much mindless Aoe in game on low cd for that to be eve feasible

So stealth should stay a broken snoozefest because you can’t avoid getting hit? Sounds more like a L2P issue.

That’s how stealth usually works in pretty much every other game ever, wonder if there is a reason for that.

Im sorry i meant besides loosing stealth as opening hit should get people out of stealth when hit by direct damage only not condis aswell. And no other game i played was “broken” because of people getting out of stealth when hit by direct damage. Would get thiefs to better time their close aproaches on targets and not just go in and be at ease because will be able to have stealth and run away without fear of repercussions.

Neat, though really what I think Sind proves tremendously here is the vast inadequacies of OH dagger at the moment.

Also, idk if the meta is different or not in EU but man there were barely any condition or bunker sustain builds being played in those videos o.O Running ID in most cases in NA is suicide in small-scale or 1v1.

DeceiverX.8361:

Neat, though really what I think Sind proves tremendously here is the vast inadequacies of OH dagger at the moment.

Also, idk if the meta is different or not in EU but man there were barely any condition or bunker sustain builds being played in those videos o.O Running ID in most cases in NA is suicide in small-scale or 1v1.

I beat most bunker sustain builds, the mes is running illusion mirror image etc for full sustain, i also beat scrappers/druids/war too. The only condi build i dueled that i wont beat (no recording) is mes with scepter/staff if they are good enough, sure i cannot kill it but i can also survive for as long as i want cus of improv just rotating the cds (i dont need EA) for it.

Heres the engi duels (first a random condi one then the meta engi build)
https://youtu.be/T_0puJ6lLbg

Mikhael.2391:

Im sorry i meant besides loosing stealth as opening hit should get people out of stealth when hit by direct damage only not condis aswell. And no other game i played was “broken” because of people getting out of stealth when hit by direct damage. Would get thiefs to better time their close aproaches on targets and not just go in and be at ease because will be able to have stealth and run away without fear of repercussions.

Yeah I agree condis remaining from previous hits should not effect stealth but taking hits should remove stealth. Just like pretty much every PvP MMO. It’s that way for reason.

Not sure why all these people are talking about thieves, this thread is about stealth, as the OP reminded us.

Jana.6831:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

D/D death blossom spam isn’t a “real” build. Try something like s/d or s/p (with out bound)

As for the exploit? What do you mean?

https://youtu.be/DMWfupJesJY
This is the exploit.
I can’t tell you how to do it since I don’t even know I’m exploiting.

ETA: And for the naysayers: This is four leaps – I just can’t get my mouse to the stealth icon fast enough. Try to copy exactly what I did (isn’t that hard – remember; I’m a noob) and have a friend watching that icon.

ETA² And what I predicted has happened: I’m now being pestered per PM that this aren’t full leaps and that I’m exploiting the camera. Yeah well thanks for proving me right – could we now retract from playing Kindergarten, please?

ETA³: Still not full leaps, no?
https://youtu.be/4c0XQOLxRmw

Thanks jana i did not know you could precast in to black powder to speed up the heart seeker rate by .25 of a second to get enough time to finish the 4th heart seeker. and that is not exploit at all.

displayname.8315:

Mikhael.2391:

Im sorry i meant besides loosing stealth as opening hit should get people out of stealth when hit by direct damage only not condis aswell. And no other game i played was “broken” because of people getting out of stealth when hit by direct damage. Would get thiefs to better time their close aproaches on targets and not just go in and be at ease because will be able to have stealth and run away without fear of repercussions.

Yeah I agree condis remaining from previous hits should not effect stealth but taking hits should remove stealth. Just like pretty much every PvP MMO. It’s that way for reason.

Not sure why all these people are talking about thieves, this thread is about stealth, as the OP reminded us.

The other Mmos have stealth that last until cancelled or removed while stealth in this game is all on very short duration for the majority so they are different stealth mechanics, and this game has by far more Aoe damage skills than most Other mmos with stealth mechanics that remove from damage.
They do need to overhaul stealth in this game but that will more than likely never happen.

DeceiverX.8361:

Neat, though really what I think Sind proves tremendously here is the vast inadequacies of OH dagger at the moment.

Also, idk if the meta is different or not in EU but man there were barely any condition or bunker sustain builds being played in those videos o.O Running ID in most cases in NA is suicide in small-scale or 1v1.

Not really, i play on YB so i been through most of the tiers and i have never felt necessary to run EA. I swapped from ID to staff mastery and back to ID but survivability is fine with ID. I have, however been tempted to go EA when I know i will be duelling a condi player but generally, if I die to condis, it’s cuz i didnt dodge an important skill I should have or I didnt condi cleanse fast enough or I didnt rotate skills properly. All a L2P issue on my side. Mind you, I play staff/sb and my reflexes aren’t as good as sind.

Pretty sure Sind would have no problem vs condi builds with ID.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

displayname.8315:

Mikhael.2391:

Im sorry i meant besides loosing stealth as opening hit should get people out of stealth when hit by direct damage only not condis aswell. And no other game i played was “broken” because of people getting out of stealth when hit by direct damage. Would get thiefs to better time their close aproaches on targets and not just go in and be at ease because will be able to have stealth and run away without fear of repercussions.

Yeah I agree condis remaining from previous hits should not effect stealth but taking hits should remove stealth. Just like pretty much every PvP MMO. It’s that way for reason.

Not sure why all these people are talking about thieves, this thread is about stealth, as the OP reminded us.

The other Mmos have stealth that last until cancelled or removed while stealth in this game is all on very short duration for the majority so they are different stealth mechanics, and this game has by far more Aoe damage skills than most Other mmos with stealth mechanics that remove from damage.

Dude gimme something common, u want longer stealth with all the mobility u have access to? Imagine im a necro for ex how will i ever be able to catch even if u never go into stealth? If u wanna run u WILL run. If you have advantage of terrains then you can just play with a lot of people chasing u in ruins etc. If stealth were to be broken on direct damage u would still be so ok to go 1vs1 or 2 and escape if u cant beat them trough dodges and teleports only diference is you wont be doing it to any class or more than 3 4 5 6 or a kitten whole squad.

Mikhael.2391:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

displayname.8315:

Mikhael.2391:

Im sorry i meant besides loosing stealth as opening hit should get people out of stealth when hit by direct damage only not condis aswell. And no other game i played was “broken” because of people getting out of stealth when hit by direct damage. Would get thiefs to better time their close aproaches on targets and not just go in and be at ease because will be able to have stealth and run away without fear of repercussions.

Yeah I agree condis remaining from previous hits should not effect stealth but taking hits should remove stealth. Just like pretty much every PvP MMO. It’s that way for reason.

Not sure why all these people are talking about thieves, this thread is about stealth, as the OP reminded us.

The other Mmos have stealth that last until cancelled or removed while stealth in this game is all on very short duration for the majority so they are different stealth mechanics, and this game has by far more Aoe damage skills than most Other mmos with stealth mechanics that remove from damage.

Dude gimme something common, u want longer stealth with all the mobility u have access to? Imagine im a necro for ex how will i ever be able to catch even if u never go into stealth? If u wanna run u WILL run. If you have advantage of terrains then you can just play with a lot of people chasing u in ruins etc. If stealth were to be broken on direct damage u would still be so ok to go 1vs1 or 2 and escape if u cant beat them trough dodges and teleports only diference is you wont be doing it to any class or more than 3 4 5 6 or a kitten whole squad.

I didn’t say I wanted longer stealth, I said the majority of those Mmos that have damage taken breaks stealth have stealth mechanics that last until cancelled i.e. They don’t have a duration like Gw2 Stealth which for the most parts is very short duration 3-5 secs with traits unless stealth was stacked for even longer durations.

Anet needs to do a complete overhaul of how stealth works in the game otherwise a nerf like being dealt damage cancels stealth would almost delete it from game use.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Anet needs to do a complete overhaul of how stealth works in the game otherwise a nerf like being dealt damage cancels stealth would almost delete it from game use.

I agree on that: although: They would have to rebuild thief from scratch as thief is the only class that’s build around stealth. It would work if it was just a gimmick like it is to all other classes.

Jana.6831:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Anet needs to do a complete overhaul of how stealth works in the game otherwise a nerf like being dealt damage cancels stealth would almost delete it from game use.

I agree on that: although: They would have to rebuild thief from scratch as thief is the only class that’s build around stealth. It would work if it was just a gimmick like it is to all other classes.

Yes, if stealth stacking wasn’t a thing , and classes that weren’t designed with stealth in mind didn’t have it none of these complaints would exist I believe.

bluri.2653:

DeceiverX.8361:

Neat, though really what I think Sind proves tremendously here is the vast inadequacies of OH dagger at the moment.

Also, idk if the meta is different or not in EU but man there were barely any condition or bunker sustain builds being played in those videos o.O Running ID in most cases in NA is suicide in small-scale or 1v1.

I beat most bunker sustain builds, the mes is running illusion mirror image etc for full sustain, i also beat scrappers/druids/war too. The only condi build i dueled that i wont beat (no recording) is mes with scepter/staff if they are good enough, sure i cannot kill it but i can also survive for as long as i want cus of improv just rotating the cds (i dont need EA) for it.

Heres the engi duels (first a random condi one then the meta engi build)
https://youtu.be/T_0puJ6lLbg

Dunno, none of them seemed particularly durable (lots of immunities and whatnot, but not really tanky), and your damage relatively speaking isn’t that high.

Just my experience is that the overwhelming majority of people I bump into while roaming are running some kind of condition-bomb bunker in most cases, and I didn’t see any such fights. Your play is excellent, but it caught me off guard to say the least that you weren’t just constantly getting bombarded.

The random condi engi guy did almost literally nothing, though :s The fight to watch was certainly the scrapper who had a much better idea of what he was doing.

LoL you guys are wasting your breath. First I love the thief class. It’s fun, fast and almost unkillable with little to no skill required. Second Anet loves this class to death so forget any major nerfs. Lastly even though I love my thieves that I play its not fun. Little to no chance of death is just not fun to me. I can run out and strike for enormous damage, evade damage at my leisure all the while jumping around like a cricket with a staff and blinding the kitten out of my targets. If I make a istake no worry I can stealth off and do it all over again. So what if I only have 12-17k hits…I am never going to take too much damage because of my evasion, dodging and blinds.
I am not sure what kind of fix your hoping for but stealth alone will not do it. If you give too many classes to uncover stealthers for more then a few seconds you take away from the core of the class. Sure my engi can prevent stealth…so what a good thief will just pop away so far and fast you will not catch them….I can go on and on but the point is there is no fix they can or will do for balancing. They are decent at balancing but not great. I mean we have groups of 5-12 squads of thieves running around in wvw with a few mesmers to boot. Imagine what they can do lol.

bottom line is for me is I love the class but I like a challenge when I play a class. As for fighting them just avoid them when I can and if I fight them I just hope that I have some soe damage. It’s really imo the best way to deal with them. Meh to each his own. No changes are coming though that you will like.

puddintay.5786:

LoL you guys are wasting your breath. First I love the thief class. It’s fun, fast and almost unkillable with little to no skill required. Second Anet loves this class to death so forget any major nerfs. Lastly even though I love my thieves that I play its not fun. Little to no chance of death is just not fun to me. I can run out and strike for enormous damage, evade damage at my leisure all the while jumping around like a cricket with a staff and blinding the kitten out of my targets. If I make a istake no worry I can stealth off and do it all over again. So what if I only have 12-17k hits…I am never going to take too much damage because of my evasion, dodging and blinds.
I am not sure what kind of fix your hoping for but stealth alone will not do it. If you give too many classes to uncover stealthers for more then a few seconds you take away from the core of the class. Sure my engi can prevent stealth…so what a good thief will just pop away so far and fast you will not catch them….I can go on and on but the point is there is no fix they can or will do for balancing. They are decent at balancing but not great. I mean we have groups of 5-12 squads of thieves running around in wvw with a few mesmers to boot. Imagine what they can do lol.

bottom line is for me is I love the class but I like a challenge when I play a class. As for fighting them just avoid them when I can and if I fight them I just hope that I have some soe damage. It’s really imo the best way to deal with them. Meh to each his own. No changes are coming though that you will like.

Drop the elite spec. Drop defensive trait lines. The difficulty goes up. Daredevil probably put the thief on one of if not the lowest skill floors in the game (albeit the high ceiling relatively untouched at super-high levels of play) This is applicable to every profession, though.

DeceiverX.8361:

puddintay.5786:

LoL you guys are wasting your breath. First I love the thief class. It’s fun, fast and almost unkillable with little to no skill required. Second Anet loves this class to death so forget any major nerfs. Lastly even though I love my thieves that I play its not fun. Little to no chance of death is just not fun to me. I can run out and strike for enormous damage, evade damage at my leisure all the while jumping around like a cricket with a staff and blinding the kitten out of my targets. If I make a istake no worry I can stealth off and do it all over again. So what if I only have 12-17k hits…I am never going to take too much damage because of my evasion, dodging and blinds.
I am not sure what kind of fix your hoping for but stealth alone will not do it. If you give too many classes to uncover stealthers for more then a few seconds you take away from the core of the class. Sure my engi can prevent stealth…so what a good thief will just pop away so far and fast you will not catch them….I can go on and on but the point is there is no fix they can or will do for balancing. They are decent at balancing but not great. I mean we have groups of 5-12 squads of thieves running around in wvw with a few mesmers to boot. Imagine what they can do lol.

bottom line is for me is I love the class but I like a challenge when I play a class. As for fighting them just avoid them when I can and if I fight them I just hope that I have some soe damage. It’s really imo the best way to deal with them. Meh to each his own. No changes are coming though that you will like.

Drop the elite spec. Drop defensive trait lines. The difficulty goes up. Daredevil probably put the thief on one of if not the lowest skill floors in the game (albeit the high ceiling relatively untouched at super-high levels of play) This is applicable to every profession, though.

I’d still put mesmers and thieves ahead of the pack for how stealth + ports enables a soft or hard reset which brings us back to stealth and how strong it is.

I only spoke for it being quoted as unkillable and easy. It’s moreso really only because of elites and defensive trait lines.

Take out DrD and SA and stealth ends up being quite a poor performer for the most part on the thief. There are very, very few thieves I’ve ever lost to which run neither, and most of the time it’s easily-attributed to a major misplay on my end. Core thief’s reset-enablers like Shadowstep and SR end up having pretty much the same cooldowns as abilities you’re likely trying to reset from, and resetting only really has much of an effect when the gain is cooldown advantage; a hard reset, unless long-lasting conditions are applied to force the opponent into staying in combat (and not cleansing) for a health advantage (which is difficult and rare), affects both players equally, which is why Sind and many particularly skilled thieves don’t just go for the OOC reset despite being more than capable of doing so when at a disadvantaged health state. Keeping them in combat with burned cooldowns and staying in stealth for quick ones like CV and initiative to refresh adds a lot more value than trying the fight over again. The mesmer sees better gains from hard resets than the thief, since its point-and-click teleport is on a substantially lower cooldown than the thief’s, and it has its primary burst tool as a 1500 range weapon, too.

Not to say one profession is better. The best-reset-approach is a bit different, is all.

And in particular, as we’ve concurred, the problems surrounding resetting for the thief are existent only on one weapon combination. Good luck trying to pull off non-OOC reset stunts using x/D against most of the meta without sacrificing major traits or utility skills.

Stealth might be a strong mechanic in the right hands, but on its own it’s far from game-breaking. As I’ve continued to mention, it’s moreso it being used in conjunction with other effects a little bit too well, or in some cases, just being a little bit too accessible. But the act of being hidden briefly in combat? I’d hardly say it’s excessive.

At least daredevil’s are funny to fight, with all that flipping and humongous teleport hops.

Stealth spam puts me to sleep, the targeting in this game is bad enough already. But I don’t expect anything either, in regards to WvW.

DeceiverX.8361:

puddintay.5786:

LoL you guys are wasting your breath. First I love the thief class. It’s fun, fast and almost unkillable with little to no skill required. Second Anet loves this class to death so forget any major nerfs. Lastly even though I love my thieves that I play its not fun. Little to no chance of death is just not fun to me. I can run out and strike for enormous damage, evade damage at my leisure all the while jumping around like a cricket with a staff and blinding the kitten out of my targets. If I make a istake no worry I can stealth off and do it all over again. So what if I only have 12-17k hits…I am never going to take too much damage because of my evasion, dodging and blinds.
I am not sure what kind of fix your hoping for but stealth alone will not do it. If you give too many classes to uncover stealthers for more then a few seconds you take away from the core of the class. Sure my engi can prevent stealth…so what a good thief will just pop away so far and fast you will not catch them….I can go on and on but the point is there is no fix they can or will do for balancing. They are decent at balancing but not great. I mean we have groups of 5-12 squads of thieves running around in wvw with a few mesmers to boot. Imagine what they can do lol.

bottom line is for me is I love the class but I like a challenge when I play a class. As for fighting them just avoid them when I can and if I fight them I just hope that I have some soe damage. It’s really imo the best way to deal with them. Meh to each his own. No changes are coming though that you will like.

Drop the elite spec. Drop defensive trait lines. The difficulty goes up. Daredevil probably put the thief on one of if not the lowest skill floors in the game (albeit the high ceiling relatively untouched at super-high levels of play) This is applicable to every profession, though.

Stop saying crap like this. It’s only lowere skill floore (as you say) if you abuse the hell out of IP and BOUND. Just because you play close to 1 shot d/d builds that are probably jusy as low skill floor and that DD line didn’t really give your build any improvements makes me think you’re just nip picking and blaming the trait line because 90% of thievs have moved on and changes their way of play (more like forced to). Dash has made things a bit easier sure, I no longer have to worry about imbo/cripple but even back in the day people run things like withdraw and or rfi wich over rides that anyway.

Back on topic, stealth thieves aren’t much of an issue as they use it to fight to its more predictable but seeing (or not) that druid and scrapper has a lot of sorecs now I think stealth will go no where.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Anet needs to do a complete overhaul of how stealth works in the game otherwise a nerf like being dealt damage cancels stealth would almost delete it from game use.

No, they just need to reduce the amount of access to stealth Thief can get, and then it’ll be fine. Which of course means nerfing the Pistol #5 skill from Smoke field to Dark field in order to stop the easy access stealth…but that of course opens a different can of worms dealing with Thief…how weak the class actually is, and how much of that is masked by the constant Black Powder → Heartseeker combo that is prevalent for stealth stacking.

Caius.8094:

Other than players that use the ANET design, am I the only player that thinks attacking while stealth’d and staying stealth’d is stupid? GW2 is the only MMO where someone can attack from stealth, go back to stealth or stay in it due to kitten poor programing and exploits… do the dev’s even know this.. do they even play anymore?

Go play Blade and Soul

Stealth is even more op in that game while u can attack in stealth without getting revealed.

stealth in gw2 can be countered in many ways

RyuDragnier.9476:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Anet needs to do a complete overhaul of how stealth works in the game otherwise a nerf like being dealt damage cancels stealth would almost delete it from game use.

No, they just need to reduce the amount of access to stealth Thief can get, and then it’ll be fine. Which of course means nerfing the Pistol #5 skill from Smoke field to Dark field in order to stop the easy access stealth…but that of course opens a different can of worms dealing with Thief…how weak the class actually is, and how much of that is masked by the constant Black Powder -> Heartseeker combo that is prevalent for stealth stacking.

The thing is, if you’re adjusting so many skills to prevent stacking a mechanic and when the mechanic is transposed onto other classes they suddenly become completely overpowered; at what point do you say it’s the mechanic that might need tweaking and not everything else in the game?

Funny, whenever theres a thread with “stealth” in its title the teefs come jump up and down about all their stealth, while there are other classes with access to it too. Yes looking at you trapper droods and scrappers.

apharma.3741:

RyuDragnier.9476:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Anet needs to do a complete overhaul of how stealth works in the game otherwise a nerf like being dealt damage cancels stealth would almost delete it from game use.

No, they just need to reduce the amount of access to stealth Thief can get, and then it’ll be fine. Which of course means nerfing the Pistol #5 skill from Smoke field to Dark field in order to stop the easy access stealth…but that of course opens a different can of worms dealing with Thief…how weak the class actually is, and how much of that is masked by the constant Black Powder -> Heartseeker combo that is prevalent for stealth stacking.

The thing is, if you’re adjusting so many skills to prevent stacking a mechanic and when the mechanic is transposed onto other classes they suddenly become completely overpowered; at what point do you say it’s the mechanic that might need tweaking and not everything else in the game?

If I recall, Scrappers only have access to the mechanic through an elite that’s easily visible and easily destroyed and blasting a smoke field which they can only put down with bombs, Druids only have access to it through LB3, and Mesmers have it through Torch 4, Decoy, Veil, and Mass Invisibility. Of those only Mesmer would be the biggest stealth problem other than Thief, though they can be fixed through alteration of skill cooldowns (something which Thief lacks in weapon skills).

RyuDragnier.9476:

apharma.3741:

RyuDragnier.9476:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Anet needs to do a complete overhaul of how stealth works in the game otherwise a nerf like being dealt damage cancels stealth would almost delete it from game use.

No, they just need to reduce the amount of access to stealth Thief can get, and then it’ll be fine. Which of course means nerfing the Pistol #5 skill from Smoke field to Dark field in order to stop the easy access stealth…but that of course opens a different can of worms dealing with Thief…how weak the class actually is, and how much of that is masked by the constant Black Powder -> Heartseeker combo that is prevalent for stealth stacking.

The thing is, if you’re adjusting so many skills to prevent stacking a mechanic and when the mechanic is transposed onto other classes they suddenly become completely overpowered; at what point do you say it’s the mechanic that might need tweaking and not everything else in the game?

If I recall, Scrappers only have access to the mechanic through an elite that’s easily visible and easily destroyed and blasting a smoke field which they can only put down with bombs, Druids only have access to it through LB3, and Mesmers have it through Torch 4, Decoy, Veil, and Mass Invisibility. Of those only Mesmer would be the biggest stealth problem other than Thief, though they can be fixed through alteration of skill cooldowns (something which Thief lacks in weapon skills).

Scrappers also have elixir S toolbelt skill for stealth

RyuDragnier.9476:

apharma.3741:

RyuDragnier.9476:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Anet needs to do a complete overhaul of how stealth works in the game otherwise a nerf like being dealt damage cancels stealth would almost delete it from game use.

No, they just need to reduce the amount of access to stealth Thief can get, and then it’ll be fine. Which of course means nerfing the Pistol #5 skill from Smoke field to Dark field in order to stop the easy access stealth…but that of course opens a different can of worms dealing with Thief…how weak the class actually is, and how much of that is masked by the constant Black Powder -> Heartseeker combo that is prevalent for stealth stacking.

The thing is, if you’re adjusting so many skills to prevent stacking a mechanic and when the mechanic is transposed onto other classes they suddenly become completely overpowered; at what point do you say it’s the mechanic that might need tweaking and not everything else in the game?

If I recall, Scrappers only have access to the mechanic through an elite that’s easily visible and easily destroyed and blasting a smoke field which they can only put down with bombs, Druids only have access to it through LB3, and Mesmers have it through Torch 4, Decoy, Veil, and Mass Invisibility. Of those only Mesmer would be the biggest stealth problem other than Thief, though they can be fixed through alteration of skill cooldowns (something which Thief lacks in weapon skills).

I can see you don’t know the builds at all really, Druids get stealth from Long bow as well as Celestial Avatar using Celestial Shadow which gives stealth and Superspeed in an Aoe on a 10 sec CD. Scrapper/Engie get it from Stealth Gyro which is also Aoe that moves ad well as Toss Elixir S on top of Smoke field blasting, it wouldn’t be a problem with those to classes if they didn’t have arguably the best sustain in game, they were never designed with stealth in mind for the most part it was tacked on, Thiefs problem is stealth stacking and nothing more, PU Condi Mesmer’s issue is being able to pop in and out of stealth after Condi bombing as well as having really good sustain and resetting CDS.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

RyuDragnier.9476:

apharma.3741:

RyuDragnier.9476:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Anet needs to do a complete overhaul of how stealth works in the game otherwise a nerf like being dealt damage cancels stealth would almost delete it from game use.

No, they just need to reduce the amount of access to stealth Thief can get, and then it’ll be fine. Which of course means nerfing the Pistol #5 skill from Smoke field to Dark field in order to stop the easy access stealth…but that of course opens a different can of worms dealing with Thief…how weak the class actually is, and how much of that is masked by the constant Black Powder -> Heartseeker combo that is prevalent for stealth stacking.

The thing is, if you’re adjusting so many skills to prevent stacking a mechanic and when the mechanic is transposed onto other classes they suddenly become completely overpowered; at what point do you say it’s the mechanic that might need tweaking and not everything else in the game?

If I recall, Scrappers only have access to the mechanic through an elite that’s easily visible and easily destroyed and blasting a smoke field which they can only put down with bombs, Druids only have access to it through LB3, and Mesmers have it through Torch 4, Decoy, Veil, and Mass Invisibility. Of those only Mesmer would be the biggest stealth problem other than Thief, though they can be fixed through alteration of skill cooldowns (something which Thief lacks in weapon skills).

I can see you don’t know the builds at all really, Druids get stealth from Long bow as well as Celestial Avatar using Celestial Shadow which gives stealth and Superspeed in an Aoe on a 10 sec CD. Scrapper/Engie get it from Stealth Gyro which is also Aoe that moves ad well as Toss Elixir S on top of Smoke field blasting, it wouldn’t be a problem with those to classes if they didn’t have arguably the best sustain in game, they were never designed with stealth in mind for the most part it was tacked on, Thiefs problem is stealth stacking and nothing more, PU Condi Mesmer’s issue is being able to pop in and out of stealth after Condi bombing as well as having really good sustain and resetting CDS.

Yep thanks for pointing those out, was about to myself.

I’ve also been a big advocate for the change of the mesmer trait The Pledge as it’s flat out broken with high stealth builds and next to useless on low stealth builds. It also doesn’t help the torch be anything more than a joke of a condi weapon.

Yes you’re seeing that right, 1.5s of the cool down is removed for every second in stealth and with PU the torch lets you be in stealth for kitten giving you at least 6s off the cool down. Coupled with Illusionists celerity for cool down reduction on decoy for a 32s CD and another kitten and you can pretty much get 13.5s of almost continuous stealth.

Mass Invis and continuum split just compounds the issue but then again continuum split is one of the first things I was saying chrono needed removing as it prevents proper balancing via cool downs. However CS is no more broken than the rest of the elite specs.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Stop saying crap like this. It’s only lowere skill floore (as you say) if you abuse the hell out of IP and BOUND. Just because you play close to 1 shot d/d builds that are probably jusy as low skill floor and that DD line didn’t really give your build any improvements makes me think you’re just nip picking and blaming the trait line because 90% of thievs have moved on and changes their way of play (more like forced to). Dash has made things a bit easier sure, I no longer have to worry about imbo/cripple but even back in the day people run things like withdraw and or rfi wich over rides that anyway.

Back on topic, stealth thieves aren’t much of an issue as they use it to fight to its more predictable but seeing (or not) that druid and scrapper has a lot of sorecs now I think stealth will go no where.

I’m actually referring to Dash. Bound is exploitative on OH pistol for stealth (something imho that never should have been implemented), but I don’t really have an issue with stealth. Dash just makes the game easier, objectively.

When I can take an alt Daredevil in rares with no runes playing the lowly P/P with meta utilities and beat people I struggle against or lose to on my main build, and win solely because of the capabilities of the trait line (massive evasion uptime, rapid stunbreaks, immob/cripple/chill immunity, and blocks while I don’t need to care about conditions), I’m sorry, I’m going to blame the trait line. Take off DrD and the game becomes way more difficult. Get rid of HoT entirely and the game becomes fun again. People run it because it’s huge power creep and a necessary evil to match the rest of the BS in HoT. But the power creep provided is so tremendous without making any substantial stylistic changes that the thief immediately became very easy to play somewhat effectively with. The ceiling didn’t change much, but the floor did. What can now be argued as benefits coming with a high-skill-floor class, such as stealth, the ability to repeat skill casts, and fantastic mobility, are much more difficult to justify when the profession becomes so difficult to punish and so accessible at the lower echelons of play.

What you’re saying is literally the argument people were giving in 2013 about pre-nerf SA while camping stealth not artificially making the thief way better than it was, and depending on trait configuration, a total crutch. Pretending like it wasn’t back then is just being silly.

Nobody ran RFI before Daredevil except some pistolero heroes who wanted to spam Unload more. The cooldown was too long to really justify using it in general, and IS provides a much better stunbreak + gap close and if not cast, the same amount of extra initiative. Withdraw is just universally an amazing heal while the others have pretty substantial issues due to their niche purposes.

As far as bias goes towards the Daredevil because of my build, no. D/D Signet burst actually improves with Daredevil. Daredevil over DA offers more damage via bound and HM on engage, a more consistent engage due to not having mug trigger BV before CnD (and stab before the change) provides better sustain since DF gives D/D inherent sustain via DB evades, and provides the build amazing condition cleanse otherwise not possible when playing signets, and an extra evade to boot. Actually, Daredevil is an objective improvement on Signet D/D over DA and makes it substantially easier to play. I continue(d) to main core thief because I just don’t find the Daredevil fun more often than not solely because imho it gets rid of many of the challenging facets of the class in general, and in particular, the build I play. I’d actually argue Daredevil is a strictly better upgrade for signet burst than it is to the meta build when looking at how well it’s capable of performing relative to without.

I played signets for the out-of-stealth play, anyways. I found the extra challenge before the HoT powercreep relatively fun, especially against other thieves and power builds. Some people want to play cheese for free wins. I want to punish bad players to end the fight quickly and be in an all-out brawl with the medium/good ones. Making every fight epic makes the game more fun, which is why you’ll never see me run the meta on anything.

I understand you’re willing to make personal attacks because you likely savor the Daredevil’s design, but if you’re going to try and claim I’m biased, please, make your claims based on some kind of fact that I can’t easily disprove.

DeceiverX.8361:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

I’m actually referring to Dash. Bound is exploitative on OH pistol for stealth (something imho that never should have been implemented

What you’re saying is literally the argument people were giving in 2013 about pre-nerf SA while camping stealth not artificially making the thief way better than it was, and depending on trait configuration, a total crutch. Pretending like it wasn’t back then is just being silly.

Nobody ran RFI before Daredevil except some pistolero heroes who wanted to spam Unload more. The cooldown was too long to really justify using it in general, and IS provides a much better stunbreak + gap close and if not cast, the same amount of extra initiative. Withdraw is just universally an amazing heal while the others have pretty substantial issues due to their niche purposes.

As far as bias goes towards the Daredevil because of my build, no. D/D Signet burst actually improves with Daredevil. Daredevil over DA offers more damage via bound and HM on engage, a more consistent engage due to not having mug trigger BV before CnD (and stab before the change) provides better sustain since DF gives D/D inherent sustain via DB evades, and provides the build amazing condition cleanse otherwise not possible when playing signets, and an extra evade to boot. Actually, Daredevil is an objective improvement on Signet D/D over DA and makes it substantially easier to play. I continue(d) to main core thief because I just don’t find the Daredevil fun more often than not solely because imho it gets rid of many of the challenging facets of the class in general, and in particular, the build I play. I’d actually argue Daredevil is a strictly better upgrade for signet burst than it is to the meta build when looking at how well it’s capable of performing relative to without.

I played signets for the out-of-stealth play, anyways. I found the extra challenge before the HoT powercreep relatively fun, especially against other thieves and power builds. Some people want to play cheese for free wins. I want to punish bad players to end the fight quickly and be in an all-out brawl with the medium/good ones. Making every fight epic makes the game more fun, which is why you’ll never see me run the meta on anything.

I understand you’re willing to make personal attacks because you likely savor the Daredevil’s design, but if you’re going to try and claim I’m biased, please, make your claims based on some kind of fact that I can’t easily disprove.

1: you’re runing p/p.. spam the hell of #3. the dmg differecne between full acsended and full rare is like 20% hell even 40%. you will still sting people with that set, and also d/d.or your build rerlys on 1 shotting so ofc that struggles with todays gw2 balance. dash is needed with such aoe/rand stuff going on, may be the 50 range is a bit too much, they can still implant an icd on it but the trait it self is far more balanced then bound. no way should i be able to randomly dodge into my enemy and ht him for 4k, and stealth too (via smoke feild)

2: the game was new, people are a lot wiser now. stuf like shadow arts stealth camping hardly work’s because people are much more switch on, or they have passive’s/reveal skill’s to counter such game play

3: on the contrary, i witness a lot of people that ran rOi way before the s/d nerd to FS needing to land to proc LS

4: i don’t belive that DD line is better the DA for your 1 shot build at all. not when you can proc for revealed training and executioner, at least i wouldnt run that if i wanted my enemy dead the moment i engage them, isnt that the whole point of your style, see some 1 to gank a shot them? what does having mug triggering before CnD ? i have been doing that for years and have not noticed anything wrong (unless an interuot happens and PI reveals me) and again, what is challanaging about seeking out a target and 1 shotting them, you can do that with most build’s.

5: i am pretty sure peoelp see your stykle as cheese. no skill at all eyeing someone up, and then 1 shotting them. how is that even fun. it is fun because everyone is different and have different ways of having fun.

i never gave you a persoanl attack, i just said stop talking crap.