Guild Wars 2

So I’ve had my commanders tag to over a month and have never tagged up in WvW, I have no experience leading, I don’t really know that I can lead without trying, I don’t have a idea of what is required to lead as far as comms or siege, I’d really like to give it a try but need some guidance from seasoned commanders/followers as to what are the downfalls.

So I have questions….

1. Is it necessary to be on TS or Mumble?`
2. Should I always be the one to carry and place siege? (is superior siege the only siege to use?)
3. How do I deal with back-seat drivers questioning my every move?
4. Should I try EotM first?
5. How do you (or I) choose the proper objective?
6. Scouts?
7. If I lead everyone to their deaths should I keep trying?
8. With no experience can I expect people to follow my tag or commands?
9. When do you decide when a battle can’t be won and retreat?
10. Tactics… How do I learn good tactics, is it necessary to sacrifice my followers to learn what I did wrong and if yes how do I deal with all the rage?
11. I notice a lot of commanders stay out of the battle until it looks safe or that victory is at hand, trying to keep a overview of the battle to give orders to push or retreat is this a good practice?
12. What’s the most overlooked thing you could tell me?

I know I have a lot to learn to be effective, I have NPC’s everywhere calling me commander so I really think the game is trying to shove me in that direction.

TIA

I honestly can’t answer most of these but I can say this.

Be respectful and keep a positive attitude no matter what. Commanders who are jerks or who go off on others when they lose a fight will never have good results.

1) No
2) People expect you to, but you can ask for donations.
3) Tell them to tag up
4) No
5) However you like
6) lol if you can get the leechers to scout
7) Yes, again and again
8) If you are the only tag, leechers will follow, but may take time
9) When the leechers run away
10) As you go along
11) No
12) Apples

I’d say ask some more seasoned commanders on your server to run with them for awhile before you tag up. They can show you the ropes.

Blanger.3162:

So I’ve had my commanders tag to over a month and have never tagged up in WvW, I have no experience leading, I don’t really know that I can lead without trying, I don’t have a idea of what is required to lead as far as comms or siege, I’d really like to give it a try but need some guidance from seasoned commanders/followers as to what are the downfalls.

So I have questions….

1. Is it necessary to be on TS or Mumble?`
2. Should I always be the one to carry and place siege? (is superior siege the only siege to use?)
3. How do I deal with back-seat drivers questioning my every move?
4. Should I try EotM first?
5. How do you (or I) choose the proper objective?
6. Scouts?
7. If I lead everyone to their deaths should I keep trying?
8. With no experience can I expect people to follow my tag or commands?
9. When do you decide when a battle can’t be won and retreat?
10. Tactics… How do I learn good tactics, is it necessary to sacrifice my followers to learn what I did wrong and if yes how do I deal with all the rage?
11. I notice a lot of commanders stay out of the battle until it looks safe or that victory is at hand, trying to keep a overview of the battle to give orders to push or retreat is this a good practice?
12. What’s the most overlooked thing you could tell me?

I know I have a lot to learn to be effective, I have NPC’s everywhere calling me commander so I really think the game is trying to shove me in that direction.

TIA

1. Is it necessary to be on TS or Mumble?` — It helps tons to be on some type of VOIP, by being able to say something in real time to the followers can mean a lot.

2. Should I always be the one to carry and place siege? (is superior siege the only siege to use?) – Superior is the best but there are reasons to use regular too, for example there are only a few of you so building regular may get built while you may come up short on Sups. You should be the one to lay siege. This is a supply management issue. You have the ability to see how many supplies others in the group have, if you are running low you know it. You should be the one to lay siege.

3. How do I deal with back-seat drivers questioning my every move?
Tell them you appreciate their advice but atm you’re leading. If the would kindly let you do so. If they don’t like your command they don’t have to follow it.

4. Should I try EotM first? ugg There is no skill to commanding in EotM. Basically the just follow no strategy needed, no thinking necessary.

5. How do you (or I) choose the proper objective? There are lots of things to consider and for this it would be a terribly long post. Things to consider – your numbers vs their numbers?
what upgrades does it have?
Do they have tons of supplies inside?
Are they going to be able to response quickly?
Is it wp?
What is the goal of this cap other than karma? ie is this going to help me take something else etc.

6. Scouts? – Love them need more please.

7. If I lead everyone to their deaths should I keep trying? Yes, but when you know you screwed up, tell them you know you screwed up and apologize for it.

8. With no experience can I expect people to follow my tag or commands? Some servers yes, others no can’t answer this as I don’t know your server community.

9. When do you decide when a battle can’t be won and retreat? When most everyone is getting wiped. That’s a good indication to get out now.

10. Tactics… How do I learn good tactics, is it necessary to sacrifice my followers to learn what I did wrong and if yes how do I deal with all the rage? No not necessary. If your server is worth anything at all they have other commanders willing to train you and show you what you need to approve on. If your server doesn’t do this possibly your guild can.

11. I notice a lot of commanders stay out of the battle until it looks safe or that victory is at hand, trying to keep a overview of the battle to give orders to push or retreat is this a good practice? No. A good commander doesn’t take credit and no blame. A good commander has the loyalty of her/his followers because he/she is working right along with them. Through thick and thin baby!

12. What’s the most overlooked thing you could tell me? (I am a bl commander) Supply management, and sweeps! Sweeping garri, bay and hills after a take is often ignored.

Stock up on siege, you’ll want to throw your own so you can keep track of your groups supply. If you ask for someone else to throw you’ll end up with unneeded siege and no supply.

Train your group to use and blast combo fields and to move with the tag. If you wipe badly attacking an objective it is sometimes necessary to do some pvd karma training to keep up the pug moral. Don’t avoid fights though, that is the main reason most people are in WvW, just get a feel for what your group needs.

The best thing to do would be to tag up in your home bl until you get a feel for how things work.

1. Is it necessary to be on TS or Mumble?
No, not for basic commanding/capturing objectives anyway. If you want to get into leading successful zerg vs zerg fights it is pretty much mandatory to have voice comms though.
2. Should I always be the one to carry and place siege? (is superior siege the only siege to use?)
It makes it a lot less confusing if the commander is the one placing siege. It saves on people tossing down random, unneeded crap build sites
3. How do I deal with back-seat drivers questioning my every move?
Learn to ignore them and carry on with your plan. Showing confidence is extremely important.
4. Should I try EotM first?
No. EotM has nothing to do with WvW.
5. How do you (or I) choose the proper objective?
This subject can get rather in-depth. If you are playing for PPT then constantly look for the objective (or point of defense) that gives you the most gain while (ideally) incurring the least enemy retaliation. If you are playing for fights then try to lure the enemy into the place where you want them then kill them.
6. Scouts?
If you are playing for PPT, then yes, always. It may depend on your server community and WvW culture to determine how successful you are at actually getting anyone to scout. Best case scenario, you can find at least a semi-regular showing of volunteers and can rotate people out every 30 – 45 min so no one has to spend their entire night scouting.
7. If I lead everyone to their deaths should I keep trying?
You won’t win any fans by just wiping the zerg and then logging off or de-tagging. If you keep trying then at least you are showing persistence.
8. With no experience can I expect people to follow my tag or commands?
You don’t really ‘make’ anyone follow you, but if you consistently show positive leadership then you will gradually build up some followers.
9. When do you decide when a battle can’t be won and retreat?
Tough question to answer. When you are dealing with pugs/militia, it can be difficult to make a tactical retreat without half your people getting lost, left behind, and cut down. You will want to learn some retreat tactics which hopefully some of the other commanders on your server can help you with.
10. Tactics… How do I learn good tactics, is it necessary to sacrifice my followers to learn what I did wrong and if yes how do I deal with all the rage?
You learn by trying and doing and not getting discouraged. Having the positive influence of an experienced commander to help you along can do wonders also.
11. I notice a lot of commanders stay out of the battle until it looks safe or that victory is at hand, trying to keep a overview of the battle to give orders to push or retreat is this a good practice?
There are a lot of different situations that you could apply the term ‘battle’ to, and a lot of different tactics that could go along with those various scenarios. All I can say without going into extensive detail is watch the enemy, make a plan, and be dynamic based on changing circumstances.
12. What’s the most overlooked thing you could tell me?
Have fun with it and keep things in perspective. Unless your goal is to be an ultra-ragey-win-at-any-cost-always-yelling-into-the-microphone-type commander, then your best bet is to be focused yet casual and don’t stress the little things.

Freshman!!!!!

Lol jk.
1. Is it necessary to be on TS or Mumble?`

• Not necessary but lightyears ahead of getting chat suppressed while commanding. Your server probably has a VOIP of some kind.

2. Should I always be the one to carry and place siege? (is superior siege the only siege to use?)

• You’re expected to provide the siege and you should. You can get donations (and you’ll get donations if you ask). As CMDR you’re providing the strategy and that includes supply management so you throw the siege you want to use. You could use normal siege (I use normal siege on paper targets). Normal siege equals superior siege on a 3:2 ratio with a slightly higher supply cost to build overall vs superior siege.

3. How do I deal with back-seat drivers questioning my every move?

• When you have the chair be the alpha on the chair. If someone has a great idea go ahead and use it. Don’t be afraid to tell em to back off though.

4. Should I try EotM first?

• EOTM is the queensdale karma train on crack. You won’t get better driving there.

5. How do you (or I) choose the proper objective?

• This depends on who is followin me. If I have less than 10 I stick to towers. If I get 20+ i may go after keeps. Generally I have to build up steam (attract more followers) before I can launch attacks against bigger targets.

6. Scouts?

• pay attention to team chat. That is where most of your intel comes in. If you’re in TS or Mumble you may get intel through that. Weigh what your current zerg is capable of vs what the threat that you hear about is. If it’s a 40 man zerg attacking a paper tower you probably won’t keep it. If it’s 40 man vs a T3 tower you can keep it if you get ppl in.

7. If I lead everyone to their deaths should I keep trying?

• Death is guaranteed. Don’t let wipes stop you. Do try to learn from your mistakes but also realize when there was nothing you can do. Not many pug-manders survive getting kittenended by 40 man map blobs.

8. With no experience can I expect people to follow my tag or commands?

• Yep. People will follow your tag because you mark where the action is going to be. Once you start actively doing things they’ll come.

9. When do you decide when a battle can’t be won and retreat?

• When I’m dead. That unless my death would mean the loss of something i’m defending then i’ll retreat into the structure.

10. Tactics… How do I learn good tactics, is it necessary to sacrifice my followers to learn what I did wrong and if yes how do I deal with all the rage?

• you can read here (you came here looking for tips ), you can ask other guild leaders or commanders. You can read your server’s public forums. It’s not necessary to sacrifice your followers. If you’re doing everything you can to make sure your strategy works it’s up to them to execute on your strategy.

11. I notice a lot of commanders stay out of the battle until it looks safe or that victory is at hand, trying to keep a overview of the battle to give orders to push or retreat is this a good practice?
*this is bad practice. You have to spearhead the assault yourself. If you’re not pushing then your zerg won’t push with you. Don’t overpush or they won’t follow you and you’ll end up dead. Don’t fear the death for death but for the position and objectives you gave up by dying.

12. What’s the most overlooked thing you could tell me?
Have passion and ambition for commanding. If you love the game you play it will show in the quality of your command.

edit: overzealous profanity filter can’t see spaces.

1: you do not need to be in TS3 to play the map, and PPT. If you want to win ZvZ fights however, you will want to have VoIP

2: Yes. I carry a stack of everything, and about 50 supers of everything at any given time. I use 1 super ram and 1 regular ram on paper gates, supers only on reinforced gates.

If you want to defend against map queue, you NEED superior defensive siege. regular siege does not have enough stopping power without building an absurd amount.

3: ask backseat drivers to keep their suggestions to /w. If they are just being critical and not helpful, then tell them to shut up or tag up.

4: Leading in EoTM would help you learn how to manage supply, but not much else.

5: Watch the map. Sentries moving, Yaks disappearing and the flip timers should give you a good idea of what is happening anywhere on the map. If you know the two other servers are engaged, fighting in stonemist for example, go hit an upgraded or inner tower like Ogrewatch, Jerrifers or Bravost. Map politics are about controlling where your enemies go and what they do. If there’s a waypoint in both SMC and their keep, and the third server has them occupied in SMC, lay siege at their keep and force them to pick which waypoint to save.

6: you need them. If no one is in your corner how do you know if your keep was tapped, or if there’s a golem coming up the water gate.

These folks are often your most stalwart tower and keep defenders. treat them well.

7. Yes. I loose a lot of respect for commanders who give up after wiping once or twice. In WvW you will die a lot. If you are not able to direct through voice, (where to bomb, when to dodge, pop stabilities, condi clears, water fields etc.) then you need to be extra careful about where you take your zerg. most people will take a few seconds to realize you’ve moved. Command through /S chat to get the best reaction time from people. Most of the time you should be able to maneuver around without bumping into the enemy zerg until you need to get past them into your tower.

Mostly you need to focus on hitting objectives that are not too hard. If you have a very small group, like less than 10, focus on controlling supply camps and ninjaing the odd tower here and there. Controlling supply is often underestimated by new commanders. If you can keep their camps flipping and their yaks dead, you WILL be able to whittle down their supply reserves, and when they’re dry, you can take their towers (and possibly keeps) with minimal resistance. Don’t rush to hit big objectives, build momentum and feed your zerg with champ bags and loot, and it will grow.

8. It does not take a lot of experience to lead a map for PPT. Lead people to supply, and lead them to an objective. Learning siege placement takes a while though. Don’t forget to get on high ground and use a ballista to destroy enemy siege if it’s giving you a hard time. Catas are extremely versatile and 2 super catas(with masters) are faster than rams on a paper wall. Watch the tick timer, and time your defensive holds and ninjas around the tick timer. If your whole corner is paper and gets ktrained by a map queue, but you can flip all 4 towers back before the end of the 15 min tick, then you’ve effectively lost nothing.

9: You can tell most of the time. If half your zerg dies on the first push, you should probably bail. If the enemy is holed up in a heavily sieged tower or keep, and they’re just waiting for you to come in, build a treb and destroy their siege(supply and numbers allowing). Try to avoid walking into a killbox. You need to pick your fights based on how quickly your zerg responds to commands, and how well you know they can fight.

10: For fight tactics: watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYrQMoOBqaI
For map politicing and map control, watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erZ2YidTZp4

For the second video, there are many lessons to be learned from that whole documentary, even if you can’t behead people.

11: IF you’re watching two other servers fight, then yes. Pick your fights carefully. however, you are where your team is focusing damage. so you are leading the charge. Like lioka said, you need to manage your team’s positioning. If you dont have enough to come out of a fight intact, then don’t go into the fight( 10v30 not always the best idea)

12: Don’t get flustered or worked up because you’re getting hammered or loosing stuff. c’est la vie. focus on having fun, and keeping your zerg together.

Hamster.4861:

1: you do not need to be in TS3 to play the map, and PPT. If you want to win ZvZ fights however, you will want to have VoIP

2: Yes. I carry a stack of everything, and about 50 supers of everything at any given time. I use 1 super ram and 1 regular ram on paper gates, supers only on reinforced gates.

If you want to defend against map queue, you NEED superior defensive siege. regular siege does not have enough stopping power without building an absurd amount.

3: ask backseat drivers to keep their suggestions to /w. If they are just being critical and not helpful, then tell them to shut up or tag up.

4: Leading in EoTM would help you learn how to manage supply, but not much else.

5: Watch the map. Sentries moving, Yaks disappearing and the flip timers should give you a good idea of what is happening anywhere on the map. If you know the two other servers are engaged, fighting in stonemist for example, go hit an upgraded or inner tower like Ogrewatch, Jerrifers or Bravost. Map politics are about controlling where your enemies go and what they do. If there’s a waypoint in both SMC and their keep, and the third server has them occupied in SMC, lay siege at their keep and force them to pick which waypoint to save.

6: you need them. If no one is in your corner how do you know if your keep was tapped, or if there’s a golem coming up the water gate.

These folks are often your most stalwart tower and keep defenders. treat them well.

7. Yes. I loose a lot of respect for commanders who give up after wiping once or twice. In WvW you will die a lot. If you are not able to direct through voice, (where to bomb, when to dodge, pop stabilities, condi clears, water fields etc.) then you need to be extra careful about where you take your zerg. most people will take a few seconds to realize you’ve moved. Command through /S chat to get the best reaction time from people. Most of the time you should be able to maneuver around without bumping into the enemy zerg until you need to get past them into your tower.

Mostly you need to focus on hitting objectives that are not too hard. If you have a very small group, like less than 10, focus on controlling supply camps and ninjaing the odd tower here and there. Controlling supply is often underestimated by new commanders. If you can keep their camps flipping and their yaks dead, you WILL be able to whittle down their supply reserves, and when they’re dry, you can take their towers (and possibly keeps) with minimal resistance. Don’t rush to hit big objectives, build momentum and feed your zerg with champ bags and loot, and it will grow.

8. It does not take a lot of experience to lead a map for PPT. Lead people to supply, and lead them to an objective. Learning siege placement takes a while though. Don’t forget to get on high ground and use a ballista to destroy enemy siege if it’s giving you a hard time. Catas are extremely versatile and 2 super catas(with masters) are faster than rams on a paper wall. Watch the tick timer, and time your defensive holds and ninjas around the tick timer. If your whole corner is paper and gets ktrained by a map queue, but you can flip all 4 towers back before the end of the 15 min tick, then you’ve effectively lost nothing.

9: You can tell most of the time. If half your zerg dies on the first push, you should probably bail. If the enemy is holed up in a heavily sieged tower or keep, and they’re just waiting for you to come in, build a treb and destroy their siege(supply and numbers allowing). Try to avoid walking into a killbox. You need to pick your fights based on how quickly your zerg responds to commands, and how well you know they can fight.

10: For fight tactics: watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYrQMoOBqaI
For map politicing and map control, watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erZ2YidTZp4

For the second video, there are many lessons to be learned from that whole documentary, even if you can’t behead people.

11: IF you’re watching two other servers fight, then yes. Pick your fights carefully. however, you are where your team is focusing damage. so you are leading the charge. Like lioka said, you need to manage your team’s positioning. If you dont have enough to come out of a fight intact, then don’t go into the fight( 10v30 not always the best idea)

12: Don’t get flustered or worked up because you’re getting hammered or loosing stuff. c’est la vie. focus on having fun, and keeping your zerg together.

I was told there would be extra credit for putting the answer in musical format.

Sheeesh peeps, you make me get out my HMS Pinafore libretto for nothing. Its not like the Major General has a major genius head and can remember every lyric now that she is old and decrepid. Oh well, at least I’m too old to still be cast as Mable.

Others have provided good answers to your questions. I’m just gonna suggest that you find out if your server has a website because usually server forums have a few posts regarding tips for new commanders. And yes, ask other militia commanders for advice.

Blanger.3162:

So I’ve had my commanders tag to over a month and have never tagged up in WvW, I have no experience leading, I don’t really know that I can lead without trying, I don’t have a idea of what is required to lead as far as comms or siege, I’d really like to give it a try but need some guidance from seasoned commanders/followers as to what are the downfalls.

So I have questions….

1. Is it necessary to be on TS or Mumble?`

Not necessary but highly, highly recommended. You can get by with typing and pinging PoIs in text chat for general commands (e.g. “[Bluelake Tower] next” or Resupply [Greenvale Camp]"). Once engaged in combat, though, you’ll be at a disadvantage if you’re not using voice comms.

Blanger.3162:

2. Should I always be the one to carry and place siege? (is superior siege the only siege to use?)

I’d recommend it, yes. I keep in inventory some of every non-guild siege available; both regular and superior. Both have their place. If just cleaning up a border, for example, I won’t waste superiors on undefended objectives. When it’s time to siege an enemy’s core holdings, out come the superiors. Or there may be times when – during a protracted siege – you’re low on supply. You may not have enough to build a superior version of the siege but you could build a regular one. So it’s good to have a mix.

Blanger.3162:

3. How do I deal with back-seat drivers questioning my every move?

I put them on my ignore list and carry on.

Blanger.3162:

4. Should I try EotM first?

No, not if your goal is to play in WvW. To paraphrase the ancient Greek Olympians, train the same way you expect to compete. EotM and WvW are apples and oranges.

Blanger.3162:

5. How do you (or I) choose the proper objective?

Depends on what you’re playing for and what the collective will of the players on your server want. If looking to increase PPT, choose targets you know you can cap quickly and can either hold through the point tick or are willing to defend.

If looking for fights, pick a high value target (to the enemy) in an effort to lure them to you. And always, always keep an eye on your supply levels; the /supplyinfo command is your friend (tiny radius, though, so make sure to call for a stack for supply check as needed).

Blanger.3162:

6. Scouts?

Invaluable. Praise them publicly and often. Reward them by mailing some coins if you can. Ask for scouts if you don’t already have some voluntarily performing this vital task. Say, “Thank you.” when they do volunteer.

Blanger.3162:

7. If I lead everyone to their deaths should I keep trying?

Yes, but perhaps change objectives to give those following you a victory to balance the defeat. Play to win; choose a goal you know you can achieve and then build upon that success.

Blanger.3162:

8. With no experience can I expect people to follow my tag or commands?

You’ll have to earn your stripes, so to speak. Let players know you’re new; don’t pretend otherwise because players will see right through it. Start small and be realistic about your goals and limitations. Build a following. Communicate your style to the other players so they know what to expect if they decide to follow you; defender, sieger, open-field fighter, etc.

Maybe there’s an established commander leading your server’s forces on EB. Volunteer to go to a border and lead a smaller group to harass the opponent or return to your own border to recap camps and towers. As you gain experience you’ll also gain the confidence of the other players on your server.

(continued)

Livemaps, Livemaps, livemaps. They’re nice as a roamer, but mandatory for a driver. It does happen that you’ll run in a camp witb RI from time to time, but you should try to avoid it. I’d suggest dual monitors or an overlay.

Examples: mos.millenium.org or wvwintel.com

Many thanks to all of you, the answers are a tremendous help and go a long way to helping me understand, I have a lot to learn but thanks to you guys/gals I have a better handle on what I need to do. Special thanks to Hamster for the links to the vids I will watch both when I get home tonight. (btw the folks that mentioned my server I’m on TC)

Thanks again I really appreciate all the help.

(continued)

Blanger.3162:

9. When do you decide when a battle can’t be won and retreat?

Too many variables to give a single answer. There’ve been fights where I’ve called for an immediate retreat when the superior arrow carts start raining down and there’ve been fights where we’ve held to the last against overwhelming odds and barely won. All depends on what you’re fighting for, your numbers versus their numbers, your group’s skill versus their skill, etc.

Case-in-point: large zerg was attacking our keep on EB. A guild group of 7 of us rammed our way into SM on the opposite side. We had downed the lord. The zerg that had been attacking our keep came rushing at us. We finished the cap just as they reached the edge of the circle. Our forces then came in behind them and – sandwiched between an RI SM lord, us, and our main force – we wiped them, saved our keep, and now owned SM. Had we retreated in the face of that sea of red, we would have lost the cap.

Sometimes you stand your ground, sometimes you retreat. When you do that is going to be dependent on many, many factors that go beyond the scope of this post.

Blanger.3162:

10. Tactics… How do I learn good tactics, is it necessary to sacrifice my followers to learn what I did wrong and if yes how do I deal with all the rage?

Tough call. Can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. But when the eggs start to revolt, it gets ugly. I wouldn’t suggest making a habit of intentionally biting off more than you can chew in a fight just to learn tactics. But accept there will be times when you get wiped; pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and move on. You’ll have to develop a thick skin to deal with those who can’t handle a defeat here and there.

Again, start small and be painfully aware of your limits. Know the maps inside and out to use the terrain and choke points to your advantage. If you haven’t already, follow some of the fight-focused commanders on your server and observe how they conduct the battle.

Blanger.3162:

11. I notice a lot of commanders stay out of the battle until it looks safe or that victory is at hand, trying to keep a overview of the battle to give orders to push or retreat is this a good practice?

There’s value in that, yes. Personally, I tend to lead a charge because I’m built to take the damage. My icon then serves as a marker for everyone to drop their AoEs on as I’m usually aiming for the thickest concentration of enemies or pushing for their squishy back line.

Again, it goes back to limitations, strengths and weaknesses, your build, etc. If you prefer the overview method, then certainly stay a bit back from the fight. In the beginning that may even be the best option as it will help you learn tactics without worrying about trying to stay alive in the middle of it.

Blanger.3162:

12. What’s the most overlooked thing you could tell me?

You’re not there to lead, you’re there to facilitate other players’ fun and recreation. This isn’t the military or a life and death struggle. If you egotistically make it all about you or about some abstract goal that may not be shared by everyone following you, then you’re overlooking the point; which is to play a game.

Look for opportunities to get goofy sometimes or do something just for the hell of it because it would be fun. We once capped Pangloss then proceeded to build tons of siege in there of every type (yes, every type; golems, too). We then broke out the roasted pigs on a spit, boxes of fun, fireworks, food fight stations, players using transformation tonics, etc.

For 3 hours we then trolled the server who previously owned Pangloss by repelling push after push after push, while dancing, laughing, and having a great time. We only broke off not because we were defeated but because some high value target finally came under attack (SM or our keep or something like that). Players still talk about that experience to this day some 1 1/2 years later. Make it fun.

Blanger.3162:

1I know I have a lot to learn to be effective, I have NPC’s everywhere calling me commander so I really think the game is trying to shove me in that direction.

Good luck, commander

lksaar.8065:

Livemaps, Livemaps, livemaps. They’re nice as a roamer, but mandatory for a driver. It does happen that you’ll run in a camp witb RI from time to time, but you should try to avoid it. I’d suggest dual monitors or an overlay.

Examples: mos.millenium.org or wvwintel.com

I had no idea this existed, I just googled the live maps and that is totally cool, no problem with the dual monitor since that’s how I’m already setup. I’m looking at the wvwintel site right now…. thank you!

i’ll tell you this.

When i started to command game was 1 year released and i didn’t have a clue what orange swords means, what the top timer means, how to refresh siege and alot of other staff. I was talking into my web-cam as mic.

U must have 1 thing always in your inventory.

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs17/f/2007/179/1/f/BALLS_OF_STEEL_by_MouseRunner.png

well, at least we’re not still talking about quaggins …

TS/vent isnt necessary any more than a being good commander is necessary.

Without it, following a commander is generally pretty boring. You get fighting performance thereafter. I’ve followed some pretty bad commanders, but at least they where somewhat funny to listen to on TS.

Really, its an MMO. Dont be afraid of a little interaction. But I wouldnt expect a commander to dig up their own ts/vent. I am of course assuming a server wide ts. If your server dont have that, dont bother with voice coms.

Also, regarding “mistakes” made when commanding… Just learn from it and try not to repeat it. You’re not going to be great in a day. Or a week. Or a month of commanding every day for that matter.

The biggest downfalls I see from commanders is lack of patience and the inability to overlook the situation. No matter how tempting that door defended by only 4 NPCs is, you’re not going to ram your way into reinforced bay with 10 people following you in the middle of primetime. You’re just setting yourself up for a wipe. Make a plan for the evening and set some realistic goals for the current situation. People wont care about a wipe if what you did made some degree of sense. They will however abandon you if it was completely futile. Reserve the futile attacks for when you want to go out in style and your followers know its the only thing left to do, lol.

My last advice would be… you have to realize that everyone want something out of it. If you’re playing it too safe, your zerg is going to slowly break apart as people go looking for points to gain. I often see PUG commanders run past a flag going “OMG DONT ATTACK OMG GO GO GOOOO FOLLOW ME!!!”. Nope. Not going to happen. A guild group can do this. Dont think a PUG zerg can. All that’s going to happen is that 30% of your zerg is still trying to catch up with you, 30% stay on the flag to cap it and the remaining 40% (if you are lucky) follow you. Great, you just split the zerg apart. Assume that everyone want points, all the time. Take the opportunity to use flags as gathering points. The same goes for commanders that get the bright idea to split zergs depending on their perceived supply status. If you got 30 people in your zerg and you say “People without supply, go cap that camp!” assuming that maybe its 10… 20 people will probably run away to cap that camp. And then a 20 man enemy group come and roll over you.

The last two points may sound contradictive, that’s because they are. Its all about balance.

Dawdler.8521:

My last advice would be… you have to realize that everyone want something out of it. If you’re playing it too safe, your zerg is going to slowly break apart as people go looking for points to gain. I often see PUG commanders run past a flag going “OMG DONT ATTACK OMG GO GO GOOOO FOLLOW ME!!!”. Nope. Not going to happen. A guild group can do this. Dont think a PUG zerg can. All that’s going to happen is that 30% of your zerg is still trying to catch up with you, 30% stay on the flag to cap it and the remaining 40% (if you are lucky) follow you. Great, you just split the zerg apart. Assume that everyone want points, all the time. Take the opportunity to use flags as gathering points. The same goes for commanders that get the bright idea to split zergs depending on their perceived supply status. If you got 30 people in your zerg and you say “People without supply, go cap that camp!” assuming that maybe its 10… 20 people will probably run away to cap that camp. And then a 20 man enemy group come and roll over you.

The last two points may sound contradictive, that’s because they are. Its all about balance.

Thank you…..no doesn’t seem contradictive in the least because I have witnessed commanders do the very things your describing, and the results are exactly what you are saying, I do understand the points, WxP, bags everyone wants to get, heck I want them also!

1. It isnt needed, but you will find that it helps sooo much with fights. You’ll find typing out commands and having people read them is almost impossible to do in the middle of a fight.
2. People will likely expect it but it’s not a must. Personally if I were to command I’d make sure I had SOME siege, even if it’s normal siege. It really just depends on when your commanding I guess.
3. This is tricky. If they want to do something else and are just being kittens about it, I’d tell them to feel free to tag up and lead. That said, if they are really trying to help, I’d take their comments into consideration. I know many a non commander players who COULD command if they wanted and do an amazing job doing it. But prefer not to and might be giving you solid advice. All depends on how they approach you.
4. Hate it, but thats just me.
5. It all depends on your play style. There are some commanders who are just in it for the fights, and there are some commanders who are looking at the PPT score. It also depends on who you’re commanding and on what map. Generally if your looking for zerg fights go to EBG. If your looking more at PPT play style and capturing objectives, use the borderlands.
6. What is this question? Need more info.
7. People do not like commanders who try something and then just give up. I as a follower would rather us keep beating at something IE a fully upgraded keep. Than just give up and puts around taking camps etc.
8. I wouldn’t expect anything, especially if your a new commander tag, otherwise your going to get disappointed. Just tag up, ask if people want to do X and see what happens.
9. When most of your forces are dead and its clear the rest of you will just become loot bags lol.
10. You will have ragers from time to time, just gotta learn to ignore it, easier said than done I know, but you gotta realize that some people are just kittens. As far as tactics go, follow other commanders, ones you know and respect and see how they do things. Some WvW guilds also train their members in case they ever want to take the reins.
11. It must be very different than when we do things in TC. Most TC commanders are in the thick of it and barking commands while they fight. But most TC commanders are heavy army and survivability classes. Perhaps yours are light armor commanders, in which case you don’t want a staff ele commander on the front lines.
12. Have fun. Period.

Don’t be afraid to tag up. In most circumstances, any tag on map is better than no tag. You may not necessarily get followers if it’s a slow time — I once spent four hours as part of a zerg of 4 whole people, helping a commander defend home BL during slump time, heh.

Generally speaking, you should get on VoIP (for Tarnished Coast, it’s Mumble). If you haven’t been using your server’s VoIP at all, getting on it is a great way to learn from other commanders and to build relationships with WvW regulars. It’s not a big deal if you’re just taking objectives on the map, but it’s critical if you’re really going to be “driving” as opposed to just being a rally point and hoping your side can overwhelm/outplay theirs. Participating in the server’s online community (for Tarnished Coast, it’s forthetoast.com) is another good way to establish a bit of cred.

And join a WvW guild, of course. Many are full of friendly people who will coach you a bit and follow you around while you learn without complaining. A lot of them don’t require 100% rep or anything.

One thing you might want to try is playing “aide-de-camp” to a commander. Basically attach yourself to a mentor and take some of the minutiae and strategic stuff off their hands. Handle siege placement when they call it, watch the map timers in another window, relay their voice commands into map chat, manage scouting reports, &c. It’ll give you a chance to get used to the logistics without having to sweat the ZvZ side of it at the same time. (Or do the opposite and get a friend to play “aide-de-camp” while you tag up get used to decision-making and driving.)

Blanger.3162:

So I’ve had my commanders tag to over a month and have never tagged up in WvW, I have no experience leading, I don’t really know that I can lead without trying, I don’t have a idea of what is required to lead as far as comms or siege, I’d really like to give it a try but need some guidance from seasoned commanders/followers as to what are the downfalls.

So I have questions….

1. Is it necessary to be on TS or Mumble?`
2. Should I always be the one to carry and place siege? (is superior siege the only siege to use?)
3. How do I deal with back-seat drivers questioning my every move?
4. Should I try EotM first?
5. How do you (or I) choose the proper objective?
6. Scouts?
7. If I lead everyone to their deaths should I keep trying?
8. With no experience can I expect people to follow my tag or commands?
9. When do you decide when a battle can’t be won and retreat?
10. Tactics… How do I learn good tactics, is it necessary to sacrifice my followers to learn what I did wrong and if yes how do I deal with all the rage?
11. I notice a lot of commanders stay out of the battle until it looks safe or that victory is at hand, trying to keep a overview of the battle to give orders to push or retreat is this a good practice?
12. What’s the most overlooked thing you could tell me?

I know I have a lot to learn to be effective, I have NPC’s everywhere calling me commander so I really think the game is trying to shove me in that direction.

TIA

I also have my tag and only use it when no tag is on the map and I see a lot of people making circles wondering what to do. That or to attract more people to a place where more are needed.

As for your points…

1. Absolutely not. It does help but asking for it as something mandatory is not realistic at all. For one, my Mumble is often already used to speak with close friends.
2. No. I do so, but I feel no obligation to do so.
3. However you like. If they are unhappy they can go take a hike elsewhere or tag up themselves.
4. Not necessary. Being new is not supposed to be a crime.
5. I’m not very experimented in commanding myself but that one will become more and more obvious with time.
6. What about scouts?
7. You have ZERO obligations and people are free to follow you. If ppl complain and make YOU responsible when you did your best they can $%/$?&.
8. It’s up to them. The mere presence of a blue doritos will generally favor aggregation and make taking objective that much easier.
9. You will be able to tell with more exp. Give you the right to be a newb.
10. You ignore the rage of others. It’s their rage and their choices. If they aren’t happy they can go do something else.
11. Might be. Do what you are able to do. With time options will become clearer.
12. The most overlooked thing in this game is that the game is it’s own reward.

Thanks again…

I see several people don’t understand my vague question about scouts, to me scouts are a important role in feeding intel about enemy movements, when I made the post I wasn’t aware of the “live maps” which I can see a advantage to keeping a eye on, you know if a tower was just capped at least some of the enemy forces are in that area.

My main intent in asking about scouts was to find out if they are necessary, I can see a huge advantage to having scouting parties reporting in on enemy movements that the live maps can’t show you.

Anyway I can’t thank you folks enough I feel much more confident that I should try leading and have fun with it which I intend to do, I just need to spend more time on the maps first while I implement the great suggestions I got in this thread.

Blanger.3162:

Thanks again…

I see several people don’t understand my vague question about scouts, to me scouts are a important role in feeding intel about enemy movements, when I made the post I wasn’t aware of the “live maps” which I can see a advantage to keeping a eye on, you know if a tower was just capped at least some of the enemy forces are in that area.

My main intent in asking about scouts was to find out if they are necessary, I can see a huge advantage to having scouting parties reporting in on enemy movements that the live maps can’t show you.

Anyway I can’t thank you folks enough I feel much more confident that I should try leading and have fun with it which I intend to do, I just need to spend more time on the maps first while I implement the great suggestions I got in this thread.

Scouts can also tell you how upgraded a tower is, what siege they can see and how much supply is in the tower. Even though I have a tag sometimes it’s better to run a “ghetto tag” for your forces on ts and let a tag run the pugs.

1. It is not mandatory but it is highly recommended. Unless you have access to a third party program for macros, stopping to type all the time can become a burden.

2. Yes. The commander should always have and place siege. Regular blueprints for un-upgraded structures and superior for upgraded.

3. Take everything with a grain of salt. There may be some truth in what they say so don’t ignore it completely but also try not to let people influence everything you do.

4. Not sure about that one… It’s a different map so you’ll be getting used to a different terrain. People there are a lot less co-operative and for the most part you won’t get to practice with large scale fights because they’re generally avoided in EOTM.

5. Watch the map and try to predict where your enemies will be. If for example, you are at Golanta Mill and you see that Danelon Passage has sword and so does Quentin Lake, you can either take your zerg there if you’re confident you can handle the conflict, or you can go for Durios Post and Umberglade Mill while your enemies are busy with the other two locations. It’s best you have a scout confirm that your enemies are infact at those locations however, as it could just be a roamer.

6. Without eyes, everything would be gone. Scouts are very important. Read the call outs in /map or /team and take everything into consideration. If your territory is under attack, it is almost always a good idea to defend it, although there are circumstances where it is okay to let things slide.

7. It happens. Not everyone starts off confident, some of us begin with wobbly first steps and that’s okay. Learn from your mistakes and recognize when your group’s morale has dropped too low to continue. Wiping your zerg once or twice is usually fine, but the more you do it the more likely people will complain or stop following.

8. You can announce that you’re a new commander, or you can take a leap of faith, it’s up to you. Either way, people will probably know you’re new if they spend a lot of time in WvW. New commanders are always welcome though, so I doubt it will be much of an issue.

9. Often times, if your enemy has greater numbers than you, it’s best to retreat. This isn’t always the case, but until you’re a confident leader it’s best to avoid unnecessary wipes. Some helpful tips: 1.Do not ever fight in siege fire. If there are arrow carts hailing down on you, have your group destroy them, attack out of their range, or go somewhere else. 2. If you’re fighting near an enemy spawn, such as attempting to take their keep, be prepared for a long fight. They will be able to run back much more quickly than you can. Placing sieges to discourage them is a good idea. 3. If there is a choke, use it. Holding points like bridges or corridors by flooding them with AOE’s is a good way to win when you’re at a numbers disadvantage. But don’t get greedy and know when to fall back!

10. Learn from other commanders, listen to the advice of your server mates, do a tagless havoc group (you commanding without a tag, and some followers), evaluate your mistakes after every wipe.

11. Staying alive is the most important thing you can do as a commander. Going full bunker isn’t a bad idea because you don’t need to worry about dealing damage. As long as you can lead your zerg through the pits of hell, you’re doing a good job.

12. Havoc groups. They are important to have and I feel that a lot of people neglect them. If there is a guild group, or even just a small group of PUGs attacking structures, try to stay connected with their locations. That way, you can pressure your enemy in multiple places at once, forcing them to either choose which to attack, or to divide their forces. It is also good to stay connected with them so that you don’t give away their location. Sometimes havoc squads will work more quickly and efficiently than a zerg because they are smaller and more discreet. If you lead a gigantic zerg to their location, you may give them away resulting in an attack that they may otherwise have been able to avoid.

1. Not sure but probably a good idea.
2. For the most part, yes. If you’re having trouble getting enough siege to do it, ask for donations.
3. Tell them if they want to genuinely help, to try to do that. If they want to be the one commanding, then they can command.
4. EotM is very different from normal WvW. It’s not representative of normal WvW, but you can learn a few things there, like the basics of managing supply and the importance of morale when leading a PUG group. Most of what you learn in EotM stays in EotM/karma train nights, though.
5. Usually I’ll try to look at objectives in a path across the map, and try to find the most effective one. What points (walls/gates) on an objective can you safely push? If you meet enemies, will you be able to easily disengage or ambush them? Think about what you’re going to do next.
6. Super nice to have!
7. Yes. The only way you’re going to get better is by practicing command, or studying someone else’s command. If you think someone else can do a better job, and they’re offering, then take them up on that offer.
8. Depends on the time (of day and of week) and your attitude. If you can have fun and aren’t completely incompetent, chances are people will be happy to follow you. Generally speaking, the later in the week you’re commanding, the less seriously people will be taking it.
9. There are a few things that you can look for to tell how matched (or outmatched) you are. Size and makeup (which classes compose the enemy group) are straightforward indicators. Guild tags are another; if the entire enemy group has the same tag, you’re in for a fight.
10. Play WvW underneath someone else, in an organised group, and watch and learn. 99% of the stuff you need to learn, you can learn by following commanders and trying to understand why they’re making the decisions they’re making.
11. This is questionable, in my experience. Most of the commanders I’ve seen are at the head of the pack, because the dorito is a clear indicator- If you’re a heavy, you need to be on that dorito. It makes it so much easier to amass and direct the force of your group to have that sign directing your peoples’ attention.
12. gl hf dd

cool thread. I would say, as someone who has a commander tag I never use, is that the commander should never get killed. Never get killed. That is not easy.

Commander should not ever get killed. Commander can port back to spawn, can criticize the entire zerg for being stupid and not in Mumble, but the commander cannot get killed.

Really think the best way is to see what other commanders on your server do, learning from their mistakes as well is always a good thing contact the ones that you know are popular or at least seem to know what they doing. The one tip I say not to be overlooked, is to try not to seem kitteny, or arrogant, secondly since your tagging up usually means dealing with trolls, inexperienced players as well as elitist types, its also a good idea to command at consistent times. For instance if you command at the same time, same day then over a period of time, you get to meet other people who tend to be on at that same time on that same day as well. This allows you to build some relationships which is useful cause suddenly its not about a commander and puppies, you actually know the people by name, personality, tendencies, and moreover they know you better. Usually this means their more inclined to support you with what you need, best of luck!

Hamster.4861:

10: For fight tactics: watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYrQMoOBqaI
For map politicing and map control, watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erZ2YidTZp4

For the second video, there are many lessons to be learned from that whole documentary, even if you can’t behead people.

Hamster, I would like to thank you again for the links to the vids, I just finished watching the documentary on Sun Tsu, after watching it I do understand why you posted it and came away with a much better understanding of tactics both good and bad, I even see how it translates into strategy or strategic thinking in WvW.

Much appreciated.

On question 2: Siege placement: One aspect of who should place siege is the question of supply. As commander, you should know how much supply you and your followers have. Insisting that only you place the siege helps you conserve supply. This could make the difference between quickly breaking into Keep inner or wiping while trying to PvD that last remaining gate to victory. When approaching an objective, remind your followers about only you placing the siege and explain why.

It also helps to explain your thoughts and plans as you take your followers around the map.

Oh! And avoid headless chicken mode. Nothing wrong with changing your mind but a commander who flits one way then the next with no clear vision can really decimate a decent sized blob.

Nanyetah Elohi.4852:

cool thread. I would say, as someone who has a commander tag I never use, is that the commander should never get killed. Never get killed. That is not easy.

Commander should not ever get killed. Commander can port back to spawn, can criticize the entire zerg for being stupid and not in Mumble, but the commander cannot get killed.

I might be the last one to die in my zerg but i’m goin down with the ship. It’s easier to regroup after a wipe that way.

Blanger.3162:

Hamster.4861:

10: For fight tactics: watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYrQMoOBqaI
For map politicing and map control, watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erZ2YidTZp4

For the second video, there are many lessons to be learned from that whole documentary, even if you can’t behead people.

Hamster, I would like to thank you again for the links to the vids, I just finished watching the documentary on Sun Tsu, after watching it I do understand why you posted it and came away with a much better understanding of tactics both good and bad, I even see how it translates into strategy or strategic thinking in WvW.

Much appreciated.

NP dude.

Hamster.4861:

Blanger.3162:

Hamster.4861:

10: For fight tactics: watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYrQMoOBqaI
For map politicing and map control, watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erZ2YidTZp4

For the second video, there are many lessons to be learned from that whole documentary, even if you can’t behead people.

Hamster, I would like to thank you again for the links to the vids, I just finished watching the documentary on Sun Tsu, after watching it I do understand why you posted it and came away with a much better understanding of tactics both good and bad, I even see how it translates into strategy or strategic thinking in WvW.

Much appreciated.

NP dude.

yeah, he kinda rocks like that Happy Friday WvWers!

Would love to see this thread stickied.