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Posted by: griffdog.3927

griffdog.3927

you forgot:

Get rid of or change the scoreboard.

Why do people say this! This idea makes no sense! Yes let’s give everyone ribbons for participation and there is no winner or loser that completely defeats the purpose of competition, what is this kindergarten gym class?

As for the “Oh people won’t be demoralized and will want to play more” try to be realistic, if I hop into WvW and see the map is entirely controlled by one server pretty sure it’s safe to assume we are losing, and vice versa if I jump in and my server is owning everything again pretty safe to assume my server is winning, most if not all cases will be similar to this

Taking away the scoreboard makes it a powderpuff game and it still wouldn’t even fully achieve the purpose people think it will.

Wolf,

I strongly disagree with you. Feel free to read any of my posts on the topic. I’ve explained why in a few different places and don’t feel like retyping it all again.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Is-this-fun/first#post449929
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Is-this-fun/first#post450920
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Is-this-fun/page/2#post451320
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Is-this-fun/page/2#post451438
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Is-this-fun/page/2#post452695
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Is-this-fun/page/2#post453240
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/New-way-to-score/first#post459433
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/New-way-to-score/first#post460822

Lochost Vandalhart – Warrior
Hurc Hammerborn – Guardian
Legion of Legionnaires [LoL] – Darkhaven

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Posted by: Wolffmother.4895

Wolffmother.4895

you forgot:

Get rid of or change the scoreboard.

Why do people say this! This idea makes no sense! Yes let’s give everyone ribbons for participation and there is no winner or loser that completely defeats the purpose of competition, what is this kindergarten gym class?

As for the “Oh people won’t be demoralized and will want to play more” try to be realistic, if I hop into WvW and see the map is entirely controlled by one server pretty sure it’s safe to assume we are losing, and vice versa if I jump in and my server is owning everything again pretty safe to assume my server is winning, most if not all cases will be similar to this

Taking away the scoreboard makes it a powderpuff game and it still wouldn’t even fully achieve the purpose people think it will.

Wolf,

I strongly disagree with you. Feel free to read any of my posts on the topic. I’ve explained why in a few different places and don’t feel like retyping it all again.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Is-this-fun/first#post449929
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Is-this-fun/first#post450920
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Is-this-fun/page/2#post451320
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Is-this-fun/page/2#post451438
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Is-this-fun/page/2#post452695
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Is-this-fun/page/2#post453240
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/New-way-to-score/first#post459433
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/New-way-to-score/first#post460822

You lay out a very good argument, however to once again play devil’s advocate, you say that if a casual player sees this:

Server A has a score of 150,000 and has +400 / tick
Server B has a score of 60,000 and has +175 / tick
Server C has a score of 30,000 and has +120 / tick

That will generally mean he will not join (if he is server B or C) and granted you are correct in most cases that will happen. Now basically your core point has already proven what I have said:

If all it takes for a casual player to not join is seeing those numbers then what exactly is stopping said casual player from jumping into WvW opening the map to see where to go seeing 70% of the maps controlled by server A and just logging right off again.

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Posted by: Mange.8324

Mange.8324

I’m pretty sure you mean “Increase character model rendering speed” instead of “Nerf thieves invisibility” that just screams ignorance.

Nothing OP about 3 seconds of stealth in which you aren’t being attacked but when it takes 6 extra seconds for someones model to appear because you have 150 people around you I can understand the issue.

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Posted by: griffdog.3927

griffdog.3927

you forgot:

Get rid of or change the scoreboard.

Why do people say this! This idea makes no sense! Yes let’s give everyone ribbons for participation and there is no winner or loser that completely defeats the purpose of competition, what is this kindergarten gym class?

As for the “Oh people won’t be demoralized and will want to play more” try to be realistic, if I hop into WvW and see the map is entirely controlled by one server pretty sure it’s safe to assume we are losing, and vice versa if I jump in and my server is owning everything again pretty safe to assume my server is winning, most if not all cases will be similar to this

Taking away the scoreboard makes it a powderpuff game and it still wouldn’t even fully achieve the purpose people think it will.

Wolf,

I strongly disagree with you. Feel free to read any of my posts on the topic. I’ve explained why in a few different places and don’t feel like retyping it all again.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Is-this-fun/first#post449929
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Is-this-fun/first#post450920
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Is-this-fun/page/2#post451320
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Is-this-fun/page/2#post451438
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Is-this-fun/page/2#post452695
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Is-this-fun/page/2#post453240
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/New-way-to-score/first#post459433
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/New-way-to-score/first#post460822

You lay out a very good argument, however to once again play devil’s advocate, you say that if a casual player sees this:

Server A has a score of 150,000 and has +400 / tick
Server B has a score of 60,000 and has +175 / tick
Server C has a score of 30,000 and has +120 / tick

That will generally mean he will not join (if he is server B or C) and granted you are correct in most cases that will happen. Now basically your core point has already proven what I have said:

If all it takes for a casual player to not join is seeing those numbers then what exactly is stopping said casual player from jumping into WvW opening the map to see where to go seeing 70% of the maps controlled by server A and just logging right off again.

Wolf,

Thanks for responding – check my last post. I actually address this. It’s a very tricky argument for me to make but I think I’ve done it as clearly as I can there. And of course we’ll never know until we try it as nothing is certain. I simply go by what I see and hear in chat channels and what some of my non hard core guildies say.

Lochost Vandalhart – Warrior
Hurc Hammerborn – Guardian
Legion of Legionnaires [LoL] – Darkhaven

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Posted by: AndrewSX.3794

AndrewSX.3794

About mistakes… there is to consider that some are due to the design, that sometimes messed up with stuff (like outmanned vs orbs buff), but some are not. And imo the miserable state of WvW atm is due to mistakes in managing – not the content itself.

Free transfers is surely main issue – but the problem is that you can’t shut them down ad say “Well, problem solved” because all the time spent with the ability to hop server to server damaged server and population balance – and locking down transfers does NOT solve that.

I don’t know what they have to do, i’m not “the guy who comes giving you all the answer because i’m a better dev than them” but top priority should be:
-balance out population (the tricky one)
-remove EU/US splits
-tackle the nightcapping issues

I know that the 3 thing are strictly correlated (removing EU/US is part of it, and consider now that most of servers are trying to get more timezone cover, so if the only way t be competitive is be a international server on both sides, mash them all togheter then, no point keep un the splitting), but those are the major issues not related to engine or game itself – stuff there needs work too, but i’d choose to get the people on server factor “working as intended”, lock down transfers, and them work on the game itself, rather than getting content working fine but nobody playing it on lots of servers due to WvW imbalance.

Problem is, more time runs, worse the situation get – and i’m not sure that the damage already done by almost 2 months long free transfers can be recovered.

Seafarer’s Rest EU – PvE/WvW – 8 × 80 chars.
Most used: Guard/Mes/War/Nec/Ele.
Yes, i use 5 chars at time. Because REASONS.

(edited by AndrewSX.3794)

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Posted by: NatashaK.9418

NatashaK.9418

I came to guild wars with a 100+ person guild. People played, though the various betas, tried everything, leveled like mad, theory crafted. We came looking for WvW. 80% of the people have left. A couple of these may be a little annoying, but these are not the problems.

The problem is there’s no end game. There’s no WvW progression. There’s no titles or ranking for contributing (think vanilla WoW, warhammer, Aion). There’s no better or even different looking gear. You get better gear by farming, distinctive gear by running dungeons, you become a commander by shelling our gold and get a pretty star by doing every jumping puzzle in the game (or whatever).

Having no inherent reason to WvW means people will either tire of the game (because PvP is the only source of user generated content) or just farm PvE all day when it doesn’t look like they can win.

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Posted by: AndrewSX.3794

AndrewSX.3794

A couple of these may be a little annoying, but these are not the problems.

The problem is there’s no end game. There’s no WvW progression. There’s no titles or ranking for contributing (think vanilla WoW, warhammer, Aion).

That’s part of the “problem of content itself”, because there are.

Point is, if you can’t get ppl play wvw due to bad managing (esp populations), ppl will leave or ignore the wvw (or even the game) way before hitting those limits you listed.

WvW itself nees work, that’s sure. But the risk is to lose the “petrol” (aka: ppl playing on all sides) way before getting stuff fixed.

Seafarer’s Rest EU – PvE/WvW – 8 × 80 chars.
Most used: Guard/Mes/War/Nec/Ele.
Yes, i use 5 chars at time. Because REASONS.

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Posted by: browolf.3825

browolf.3825

just make a mesmer proof upgrade to walls.

Piken Square forever

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Posted by: ohac.8720

ohac.8720

The problem is there’s no end game. There’s no WvW progression. There’s no titles or ranking for contributing (think vanilla WoW, warhammer, Aion). There’s no better or even different looking gear.

I disagree 100%, but then myself and I know my guild does not WvWvW for any of those reasons. We do it for the challenge. The badges, currency, valor and more work well for what we do there. The emphises of this game has never been some end game grind, the devs even stated this over and over. They even put in rediculious legendary skins for those that must have a long term goal.

I get it, some are use to this “I need something for anything I do”, but there was a day when gamers gamed for the fun of gaming. Seems to me we have plenty still doing so on servers with 1 hour + cues for WvWvW and more. So I have no doubt you and others feel this way, personally myself and others I know don’t. So the assumption that this is the main reason WvWvW failed is far from what the forums and players talk about in game on the subject. #1 reason that comes up all the time is transfers and everything else that follows in the OP’s original post is pretty much right in what I personally feel and read daily on my server alone.

Tracker

Tracker Maximous, Guardious Maximous, Arcanious Maximous, [DH] DragonHorn Officer
http://www.dragonhorn.net

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Posted by: HavnaBlast.4897

HavnaBlast.4897

I see what they’re doing here: allowing guilds and single players to get a taste of WvW in a winning environment. Letting us experience the benefits and excitement of battling other servers with other players who want to do the same thing.

I think that’s great. The only guild I ever watched dominate en masse had the guild tag [LION], I imagine other guilds are finally building their numbers because of the free server transfers.

Eventually guilds will want to compete against each other, proving they have the numbers and strenth to hold off an advance. Maybe that division between NA and EU servers will disappear making combat even more chaotic around the clock.

I like what you’re doing here GW2. Reading about competition on forums isn’t exciting, but finding and seeing it in game is.

Björk Ravenclaw – engineer
Yewhan Blackroot – mesmer
—Dragonbrand

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Posted by: unleashed.8679

unleashed.8679

just make a mesmer proof upgrade to walls.

You know that the walls are reset when the keep is taken over?
And Mesmer that port over walls were inside the base and you didn’t find them (or they cheated/exploited)

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Posted by: Tine Sionnach.8629

Tine Sionnach.8629

Dang I didnt expect this thread to get so many responces or requests for me to do more work, lol. But I think with the replies you can see why this needed to be made and also see some others that needed to be added. and yes the Thief invis was not ment as nerf it was suppose to be rendering. I do hope anet is reading this thread and working on all the issues mentioned in here or at the very least give us a responce to let us know they know these issues exsist and are working on them.

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Posted by: Shadow.3475

Shadow.3475

1) STOP free server transfers
Dont stop but add some restrictions like you cant transfer to a server your in war with and you can only do 1 transfer ever 10days if you dont go back to the server you came from.

3) Class Balancing i.e nerf mes portals and thieves invis <main two requested
Add so Mes portal only work for his group so max 5 can be teleported would be a good step.

10) Implement Friend Foe feature so you can ally with other servers.
Dont se why.

14) Add supply depot in spawn points.
No, there is allways at least 1 supply camp close to spawn as it is now.

Add 30sec CD and shame count on alt-F4, so player stay in game and ofc cant login for 30sec, shame count should be a list so everyone can se how is the most chicken on the server.

Change so the point gain is % linked to how many players in is on the 4 World vs World maps, min 10% and max 100% when there is 60% or more players on all 4 maps, that way a smaller server that win big will not gain as much as a big server, with i think all would like, that way a smaller server will not gain as much point as the server that have que most off the time even if they have the same amount of Supply camps, towers, keeps, Castle.

(edited by Shadow.3475)

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Posted by: ktith.6197

ktith.6197

1) (or place a 1 week cooldown on WvW activities as a punishment for trying to change the direction of a match)

2) (wouldn’t be fair for everyone that would like to play in WvW and to be honest it only takes 5 people to take doors down on keeps/towers/castles…so in theory if there were number balancing, and only 5 people were in WvW, that means only 5 would be allowed from the other two servers each….see the problem with that)

3) (portals and thieves make it interesting, though the amount of “stealth” is kinda crazy. I’m sure Anet was not trying to make a WoW thief which would be why stealth is limited, but there’s so many stealth options that a thief could if planned right stay invis a good portion of the time. Mesmer’s seem really OP in WvW though in general, portals aside).

4) (Or just make the orbs less desirable to have or give a different buff)

5) (I have no better idea here as that would be beneficial to the players that come forward to help build up these keeps/towers…because we that defend and build up these places know that you can literally spend upwards of 6g on a keep and around 3g on a tower just for the upgrades).

6) (Would create lag. There’s plenty of “free” server programs out there that people have access to.)

7) (This is a double-edged sword. Why not instead give us the upgrade ability to strengthen doors to the same level that the T3 walls can go to. That would make the door just as hard to get through as the walls and would make it to where it would take more effort than just a few people to take a door down).

8) (Agree).

9) (Some of this is if you don’t control the nodes in your primary map. The rest of this I’ve read is because you’re not meant to have siege permanently…a currency sink if you will).

10) (This would be nice, but, they’d have to make sure that you couldn’t just turn it on or off. I would recommend that if this were enabled, that a 48 hour cooldown was placed on the switchability of it…this way your new friend can’t take advantage of the system and go foe from inside your newly acquired keep or tower. Also, when join ventures are taken both sides involved should get the points for those pieces of property as well as on the map it should show half one color, half the other on the property taken.)

11) (This should be an option, but just to point out, Toughness is the universal protection against NPCs and Players. If anything maybe the PvP gear needs to go like many other games have where the PvP gear has a specific stat that only gives protection against players.)

12) (In the current state, to be honest, a wooden door could be “axed, burned, etc” and those are real life mechanics. Give gates the ability to be upgraded to a third tier where only siege can be used to tear it down, that would add a nice option to defense vs. attacking. Also, the hitpoints on cannons/oil/mortars should be doubled at least. As it stands right now, you can destroy a tower/keep’s ability to defend with very little resistance. Make attackers work harder to take something so when they do they really can take that gratification to the bank).

13) (Agree. Or larger raids. It’s not like we need to see their health bars as you can scroll over a person and get that. It would just be nice to get more like-minded individuals on your attack team than be forced to try to get 5 separate groups to figure out what you’re doing).

14) (How about instead they added the ability to transfer supplies from camps you own to keeps/towers/castle. In other words, if you can successfully defend a camp line between your property and that camp, you should be able to run supplies back to your defense point and deposit them into the main supply which would make up for that idiot that wipes your supply out at a keep/tower with upgrades that aren’t necessary during a defense campaign).

15) (Workers should be repairing anything that has been hit but not destroyed when there is supply to do it. I think this was bad implementation on Anet’s part. Like when cannon’s re-appear or the oil bin after being destroyed, those workers should be doing their NPC job and getting those defenses back up. However in terms of when something has been destroyed, a player should have to initiate the first repair sequence while the siege is still going on, much like your ability to repair a gate while it is being sieged).

Cmdr. Xandria Wolfkin
[RED] Devona’s Rest

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Posted by: Arreyanne.2683

Arreyanne.2683

The only thing that will happen if the limit the number of people that can be transferred by a single portal is:

Grouping Mesmers in 5 person group 5 portals then transfer 25-40 people depending on which option Anet takes from those that are boo hooing about it end is the same result and then the QQQQQQQQQ will start again.

It’s an annoyance and like others have said check the keep you just took

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Posted by: Shadow.3475

Shadow.3475

Arreyanne yes but then to move 50players you will need 10groups with 10 Mesmer not 1 mesmer and 0 groups.

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Posted by: willwill.9318

willwill.9318

a list that doesn’t include a level 80 pvp system ala daoc realm levels…

is incomplete

www.the-darkhand.com <DDH>

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Posted by: Explicits.9740

Explicits.9740

Bump for my favorite post to be noticed!

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Posted by: Shadow.3475

Shadow.3475

And ocf it shouls be a 10min cd or so when you used teleport so you cant switch team and teleport more players.