Guild Wars 2

TL;DR – Toughness should be coughterweight to ferocity.

For last year i’ve been playing wvw in different classes, roles and in different gear.

And so far i was questioning myself – do toughness actually affect your survivability?

Actually not so far in my opinion, every class can dish out increadibly high damage in mere of a second, and toughness as defence atribute does not affect incoming damage in much of a way.

When its come to conditions – you can cleanse – automaticly or by use of abilities, you can use traits or food that reduce incoming condition duration. It’s help a little when you are not overburden with every possible condition in zergs or by thiefs/necroes.

When it comes to direct damage by aoe, cleave, or direct single target damage – you choices are more limited – aegis and\or protection, purgable boon so it would be converted to conditions or stealed in 1v1 or in zerg, block or dodge.

For both damage types – there is a variety of immunities scattered among classes – from evades and distortions to compleate damage mitigation.

But it’s not much of help when TTK (time to kill) comes to a point of seconds, which with latency in WvW may result in few frames if sudden lag happens.

In my honest opinion we need to adjust toughness meaning and how it would interact with damage.

I propose following concept – make toughness counter ferocity, in current meta where nearly 100% of critical chance achievable, and fury boon could be permanent, an ease with which costant crits for over 1|3 of HP bar or nearly one shots of and enemy player are common as house fly.

There is already precedents in game which make crits useless against certain classes – Stone Heart of from Earth trait line for example – it was a certanly a good choise of a trait versus power builds like Diamond Skin versus condition builds, and making it so that other classes could access to such a defense by stacking toughness will make this attribute good for bunker, anti-power, defensive builds.

TL;DR – Toughness should be coughterweight to ferocity.

Uh… you do realize it already is, right?

Dont have to be a rocket scientist to realize that when you hit one target for 2.5K autos and another target for 1.2K autos, the latter have a fair bit of toughness.

The reason some damages are insane (like going from a skill that says it hit for “800” in the tooltip to hitting for 8K) is because overwhelming power damage is just as kittening broken as overwhelming condi damage.

I suppose i wasnt clear enough.

Toughness contribute to armor – thouse reducing any direct damage.

I propose to toughness be a counterweight to ferocity, so if player with 200% critical damage multiplyer attack you with, let’s assume 3000 toughness, – you will recieve a crit with not a 2 time more damage then non crit, but with 1.7 multiplyer for example.

The actualy point of topic – toughness is badly scaling and do not affect pvp in anyway like vitality do, but should.

Toughness damage reduction is significant. ~2500 armor (which is the sweet spot for roaming) gives you a permanent 20 to 25% direct damage reduction.

I don’t see much of a difference to your math besides the fact that your solution would totally break the game balance.

Putting your point aside tho: There is one JaRRRING problem with this.

Name me the armour/gear types that have ferocity in them atm!

ITs assasin’s and zerker’s pretty much, in addition to valkyre, marauder, and crusader. And what do assasins and zerkers both of those have in common? They are allllll power damage stats, because power damage requires 3 stats to get good numbers in most cases. There are already many ways to counter pure raw damage in the game, so much so that we are in a tank meta….an indisputable tank meta. What you are proposing is adding ANOTHER nerf to these gearsets. I mean you have to add something in to balance the system a bit…its already lopsided towards tank meta….and those meta builds run toughness/vitality in them relying on just straight power or condi as the damage. Some run just vitality cause of the condi meta with their dire/trailblazer stats. Many would swap to toughness though as soon as an opportunity to take advantage of it comes into prominence….they are switchable back and forth really without much build change.

Can’t just nerf a power user’s stats more……not when we are in a tank meta where tank > damage. And not when people are already using those tank builds….like lol, why make tanks more powerful?!?!?!? It creates even more reason to go dire/trailblazer and rely on boonstrips and cc bombs to melt sections of the enemy.

You have to consider how underpowered and awkward ferocity is atm compared to all other stats ingame. It relies on precision to even function, and its less powerful than power is regardless of your crit rate values……up until a point of around 3300 power, at which point it becomes equal to power and starts to surpass it.

We would need some serious ferocity buff to implement what you are proposing. Infact it would make sense to buff ferocity and then counter it via something as you described with toughness.

Toughness does what it’s supposed to. Ferocity scales damage after it has been divided by the armor rating of the opponent.

So if you stack toughness to turn a 1k base hit which would crit for 2.4k into a 500 base hit, the crit would be 1.2k which remains still cutting the damage in half.

Toughness works well with classes that have a lot of condi removal and in-kit sustain like ele and guard. Toughness tanks usually falter in kits with low condi hate/sustain like thief and mesmer.

Necro 30k HP no toughness gets almost instantly blown up by Power burst thiefs and mesmers
necro 20k HP 1000+ toughness can survive 2+ burst opening from them…

Toughness is STRONG but you need a good 1k to feel the difference and a HIGH base HP…

But if toughness would only reduce crit dmg. Non crits would ignore toughness.

So you want toughness to double counter ferocity? Lol, man, not gonna happen.

Maybe you need to learn about the magic that is dodge, if you’re running tanky and still getting blown up by power builds.

Well you can’t dodge thief first attack. First backstab is instant straight from stealth.

Junkpile.7439:

Well you can’t dodge thief first attack. First backstab is instant straight from stealth.

Said thief has already blown most of his action points, or shadow refuge, to pull that off without you seeing it coming.

If you saw a thief suddenly go invisible, you can pretty much assume he’s coming for you, and throw up a block.

Most thieves aren’t carrying around 20 seconds of stealth anymore.

Hell, tbh. Most of the thieves I’ve fought aren’t even wearing zerkers gear anymore. Backstabbing isn’t as stupidly amazing as it used to be.

As for the discussion, everyone runs tanky as hell now-a-days. Why are you trying to make that even worse?

I literally sat in a 15 man group’s bomb yesterday questioning “where is the damage”. I’ll tell you where it was, non-existent. They were just melee training and killing all the scrubs that don’t know how to dodge, and are running PvE gear.

The only class I even remotely fear in this game is a reaper, and that’s only because of all the boon corruption.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Junkpile.7439:

Well you can’t dodge thief first attack. First backstab is instant straight from stealth.

Said thief has already blown most of his action points, or shadow refuge, to pull that off without you seeing it coming.

If you saw a thief suddenly go invisible, you can pretty much assume he’s coming for you, and throw up a block.

Most thieves aren’t carrying around 20 seconds of stealth anymore.

Hell, tbh. Most of the thieves I’ve fought aren’t even wearing zerkers gear anymore. Backstabbing isn’t as stupidly amazing as it used to be.

As for the discussion, everyone runs tanky as hell now-a-days. Why are you trying to make that even worse?

I literally sat in a 15 man group’s bomb yesterday questioning “where is the damage”. I’ll tell you where it was, non-existent. They were just melee training and killing all the scrubs that don’t know how to dodge, and are running PvE gear.

The only class I even remotely fear in this game is a reaper, and that’s only because of all the boon corruption.

I don’t have blocks. So should i use mistform straight after thief go stealth?

I’m fully in the “it already does” camp.

more toughness = taking less damage from ferocity (and power and precision)

Holy cow the suggestions on these forums are hilarious today.

A million times no. This should be fundamental knowledge.

Junkpile.7439:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Junkpile.7439:

Well you can’t dodge thief first attack. First backstab is instant straight from stealth.

Said thief has already blown most of his action points, or shadow refuge, to pull that off without you seeing it coming.

If you saw a thief suddenly go invisible, you can pretty much assume he’s coming for you, and throw up a block.

Most thieves aren’t carrying around 20 seconds of stealth anymore.

Hell, tbh. Most of the thieves I’ve fought aren’t even wearing zerkers gear anymore. Backstabbing isn’t as stupidly amazing as it used to be.

As for the discussion, everyone runs tanky as hell now-a-days. Why are you trying to make that even worse?

I literally sat in a 15 man group’s bomb yesterday questioning “where is the damage”. I’ll tell you where it was, non-existent. They were just melee training and killing all the scrubs that don’t know how to dodge, and are running PvE gear.

The only class I even remotely fear in this game is a reaper, and that’s only because of all the boon corruption.

I don’t have blocks. So should i use mistform straight after thief go stealth?

If you’re using staff, throw down a static field on yourself. Or your fire staff 2 to damage him when he comes in. I’d suggest using about face a lot to try and make him stab your face.

If you’re using dagger focus or dagger dagger you should already know what to do.

And if you’re using a scepter, just accept your fate as the thief kills you.

Yes… lets nerf power because the condi meta isn’t strong enough yet. How much do you want to bet the OP wears dire/TB and plays condi?

Im ok… But reduce condi damage as well, so players who want condi busrt with high damage from condi need play glassy as well.

More risk reward for both condi and damage right??

Junkpile.7439:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Junkpile.7439:

Well you can’t dodge thief first attack. First backstab is instant straight from stealth.

Said thief has already blown most of his action points, or shadow refuge, to pull that off without you seeing it coming.

If you saw a thief suddenly go invisible, you can pretty much assume he’s coming for you, and throw up a block.

Most thieves aren’t carrying around 20 seconds of stealth anymore.

Hell, tbh. Most of the thieves I’ve fought aren’t even wearing zerkers gear anymore. Backstabbing isn’t as stupidly amazing as it used to be.

As for the discussion, everyone runs tanky as hell now-a-days. Why are you trying to make that even worse?

I literally sat in a 15 man group’s bomb yesterday questioning “where is the damage”. I’ll tell you where it was, non-existent. They were just melee training and killing all the scrubs that don’t know how to dodge, and are running PvE gear.

The only class I even remotely fear in this game is a reaper, and that’s only because of all the boon corruption.

I don’t have blocks. So should i use mistform straight after thief go stealth?

As an ele you have the ability to negate almost all power thief damage by just camping Earth with Stone Heart.

If you see them stealth up, you can swap attunements and the backstab will get negated (technically blocked – including unblockable attacks – on any critical strike as it negates procs as well) entirely. Backstab is actually less-bursty than just using dagger AA after Shadow Shot. Strictly speaking, ele is probably the second best power-thief-killer in the game if traited to deal with them, following DH. FA played well hard-counters thief as well because it has mass AoE blinds which negate stealth attack usage and offers a lot of CC and huge burst numbers.

Anticipating the attack from stealth is an acquired skill that is also best learned by just playing a thief for a while.

DeceiverX.8361:

Junkpile.7439:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Junkpile.7439:

Well you can’t dodge thief first attack. First backstab is instant straight from stealth.

Said thief has already blown most of his action points, or shadow refuge, to pull that off without you seeing it coming.

If you saw a thief suddenly go invisible, you can pretty much assume he’s coming for you, and throw up a block.

Most thieves aren’t carrying around 20 seconds of stealth anymore.

Hell, tbh. Most of the thieves I’ve fought aren’t even wearing zerkers gear anymore. Backstabbing isn’t as stupidly amazing as it used to be.

As for the discussion, everyone runs tanky as hell now-a-days. Why are you trying to make that even worse?

I literally sat in a 15 man group’s bomb yesterday questioning “where is the damage”. I’ll tell you where it was, non-existent. They were just melee training and killing all the scrubs that don’t know how to dodge, and are running PvE gear.

The only class I even remotely fear in this game is a reaper, and that’s only because of all the boon corruption.

I don’t have blocks. So should i use mistform straight after thief go stealth?

As an ele you have the ability to negate almost all power thief damage by just camping Earth with Stone Heart.

If you see them stealth up, you can swap attunements and the backstab will get negated (technically blocked – including unblockable attacks – on any critical strike as it negates procs as well) entirely. Backstab is actually less-bursty than just using dagger AA after Shadow Shot. Strictly speaking, ele is probably the second best power-thief-killer in the game if traited to deal with them, following DH. FA played well hard-counters thief as well because it has mass AoE blinds which negate stealth attack usage and offers a lot of CC and huge burst numbers.

Anticipating the attack from stealth is an acquired skill that is also best learned by just playing a thief for a while.

He doesn’t just play ele though, saw him running around most of the time on scrapper with toolkit for more blocks. He then rage whispered half my guild saying they should play something with risk like Sc/D ele. This is with me playing a core DD ele so not exactly something super easy in the meta so take that how you will.

If he as a roamer hasn’t a counter to thieves oneshotting him that’s his problem because many classes will CC and burst from stealth given half a chance. He could always trait tempests defence and/or use arcane shield or even have auto arcane shield at 50% and not be silly enough to run full zerk.

If you run full zerk Sc/D ele and have only mistform as your defence that is 100% your fault and you deserve to die for running a bad build.

DeceiverX.8361:

Anticipating the attack from stealth is an acquired skill that is also best learned by just playing a thief for a while.

Playing thief for a while is always an eye opening experience.

You never realize the plethora of B.S. a thief has to deal with in their kit in order to play it well, until you’ve actually done it yourself.

(Same with mesmer, but don’t tell anyone that on the PvP forums. mesmer is still an ungodly easy faceroll character to them.)

Running away is about the only thing that’s remotely easy on a thief (Which is why it’s all so many thief players are good about).

apharma.3741:

DeceiverX.8361:

Junkpile.7439:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Junkpile.7439:

Well you can’t dodge thief first attack. First backstab is instant straight from stealth.

Said thief has already blown most of his action points, or shadow refuge, to pull that off without you seeing it coming.

If you saw a thief suddenly go invisible, you can pretty much assume he’s coming for you, and throw up a block.

Most thieves aren’t carrying around 20 seconds of stealth anymore.

Hell, tbh. Most of the thieves I’ve fought aren’t even wearing zerkers gear anymore. Backstabbing isn’t as stupidly amazing as it used to be.

As for the discussion, everyone runs tanky as hell now-a-days. Why are you trying to make that even worse?

I literally sat in a 15 man group’s bomb yesterday questioning “where is the damage”. I’ll tell you where it was, non-existent. They were just melee training and killing all the scrubs that don’t know how to dodge, and are running PvE gear.

The only class I even remotely fear in this game is a reaper, and that’s only because of all the boon corruption.

I don’t have blocks. So should i use mistform straight after thief go stealth?

As an ele you have the ability to negate almost all power thief damage by just camping Earth with Stone Heart.

If you see them stealth up, you can swap attunements and the backstab will get negated (technically blocked – including unblockable attacks – on any critical strike as it negates procs as well) entirely. Backstab is actually less-bursty than just using dagger AA after Shadow Shot. Strictly speaking, ele is probably the second best power-thief-killer in the game if traited to deal with them, following DH. FA played well hard-counters thief as well because it has mass AoE blinds which negate stealth attack usage and offers a lot of CC and huge burst numbers.

Anticipating the attack from stealth is an acquired skill that is also best learned by just playing a thief for a while.

He doesn’t just play ele though, saw him running around most of the time on scrapper with toolkit for more blocks. He then rage whispered half my guild saying they should play something with risk like Sc/D ele. This is with me playing a core DD ele so not exactly something super easy in the meta so take that how you will.

If he as a roamer hasn’t a counter to thieves oneshotting him that’s his problem because many classes will CC and burst from stealth given half a chance. He could always trait tempests defence and/or use arcane shield or even have auto arcane shield at 50% and not be silly enough to run full zerk.

If you run full zerk Sc/D ele and have only mistform as your defence that is 100% your fault and you deserve to die for running a bad build.

Full glass vanilla s/d ele players are only ones who i don’t send rage whispers. D/D ele is braindead spec and only reason to play it is low skill level.

apharma.3741:

DeceiverX.8361:

Junkpile.7439:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Junkpile.7439:

Well you can’t dodge thief first attack. First backstab is instant straight from stealth.

Said thief has already blown most of his action points, or shadow refuge, to pull that off without you seeing it coming.

If you saw a thief suddenly go invisible, you can pretty much assume he’s coming for you, and throw up a block.

Most thieves aren’t carrying around 20 seconds of stealth anymore.

Hell, tbh. Most of the thieves I’ve fought aren’t even wearing zerkers gear anymore. Backstabbing isn’t as stupidly amazing as it used to be.

As for the discussion, everyone runs tanky as hell now-a-days. Why are you trying to make that even worse?

I literally sat in a 15 man group’s bomb yesterday questioning “where is the damage”. I’ll tell you where it was, non-existent. They were just melee training and killing all the scrubs that don’t know how to dodge, and are running PvE gear.

The only class I even remotely fear in this game is a reaper, and that’s only because of all the boon corruption.

I don’t have blocks. So should i use mistform straight after thief go stealth?

As an ele you have the ability to negate almost all power thief damage by just camping Earth with Stone Heart.

If you see them stealth up, you can swap attunements and the backstab will get negated (technically blocked – including unblockable attacks – on any critical strike as it negates procs as well) entirely. Backstab is actually less-bursty than just using dagger AA after Shadow Shot. Strictly speaking, ele is probably the second best power-thief-killer in the game if traited to deal with them, following DH. FA played well hard-counters thief as well because it has mass AoE blinds which negate stealth attack usage and offers a lot of CC and huge burst numbers.

Anticipating the attack from stealth is an acquired skill that is also best learned by just playing a thief for a while.

He doesn’t just play ele though, saw him running around most of the time on scrapper with toolkit for more blocks. He then rage whispered half my guild saying they should play something with risk like Sc/D ele. This is with me playing a core DD ele so not exactly something super easy in the meta so take that how you will.

If he as a roamer hasn’t a counter to thieves oneshotting him that’s his problem because many classes will CC and burst from stealth given half a chance. He could always trait tempests defence and/or use arcane shield or even have auto arcane shield at 50% and not be silly enough to run full zerk.

If you run full zerk Sc/D ele and have only mistform as your defence that is 100% your fault and you deserve to die for running a bad build.

Given his reference to using Mist Form I made an assumption about what he played. Otherwise I’d have asked.

Junkpile.7439:

apharma.3741:

DeceiverX.8361:

Junkpile.7439:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Junkpile.7439:

Well you can’t dodge thief first attack. First backstab is instant straight from stealth.

Said thief has already blown most of his action points, or shadow refuge, to pull that off without you seeing it coming.

If you saw a thief suddenly go invisible, you can pretty much assume he’s coming for you, and throw up a block.

Most thieves aren’t carrying around 20 seconds of stealth anymore.

Hell, tbh. Most of the thieves I’ve fought aren’t even wearing zerkers gear anymore. Backstabbing isn’t as stupidly amazing as it used to be.

As for the discussion, everyone runs tanky as hell now-a-days. Why are you trying to make that even worse?

I literally sat in a 15 man group’s bomb yesterday questioning “where is the damage”. I’ll tell you where it was, non-existent. They were just melee training and killing all the scrubs that don’t know how to dodge, and are running PvE gear.

The only class I even remotely fear in this game is a reaper, and that’s only because of all the boon corruption.

I don’t have blocks. So should i use mistform straight after thief go stealth?

As an ele you have the ability to negate almost all power thief damage by just camping Earth with Stone Heart.

If you see them stealth up, you can swap attunements and the backstab will get negated (technically blocked – including unblockable attacks – on any critical strike as it negates procs as well) entirely. Backstab is actually less-bursty than just using dagger AA after Shadow Shot. Strictly speaking, ele is probably the second best power-thief-killer in the game if traited to deal with them, following DH. FA played well hard-counters thief as well because it has mass AoE blinds which negate stealth attack usage and offers a lot of CC and huge burst numbers.

Anticipating the attack from stealth is an acquired skill that is also best learned by just playing a thief for a while.

He doesn’t just play ele though, saw him running around most of the time on scrapper with toolkit for more blocks. He then rage whispered half my guild saying they should play something with risk like Sc/D ele. This is with me playing a core DD ele so not exactly something super easy in the meta so take that how you will.

If he as a roamer hasn’t a counter to thieves oneshotting him that’s his problem because many classes will CC and burst from stealth given half a chance. He could always trait tempests defence and/or use arcane shield or even have auto arcane shield at 50% and not be silly enough to run full zerk.

If you run full zerk Sc/D ele and have only mistform as your defence that is 100% your fault and you deserve to die for running a bad build.

Full glass vanilla s/d ele players are only ones who i don’t send rage whispers. D/D ele is braindead spec and only reason to play it is low skill level.

Yeah unlike the pinnacle of risk/reward that is scrapper with toolkit for more blocks, double elixir S and stealth gyro.

you do know… weakness make it so a player can not crit.?

Taobella.6597:

you do know… weakness make it so a player can not crit.?

Not true; it causes a 50% chance to not crit and drops the damage of power-based attacks by 50%.

i mean while we are at it lets just have healing power counter condition damage? also power strength can counter vitality and ferocity reduces durations on CC placed on you too just to make things fair in the book of “people who cant stop standing in circles of doom”

Condition damage is already countered by cleanses. Any Stat added to counter condition damage would have to lead to removing cleanses.

People not traiting cleanses to deal with conditions are akin to people not traiting toughness to deal with power.

The major difference is that in order to “trait more toughness” you can usually do it with gear wherein the traits and utilities you select are not affected. With condition damage to trait cleanse you have to add via utilities and traits for the most part.

At the end of the day this “tradeoff” is the real burr under the saddle of those who complain about conditions. Vey much like those that complained about stealth but did not want to trait a reveal because “there are better traits or utilities to take” those complaining the loudest about conditions tend to be ones feeling they should only have to slap on armor in order to do so.

It all then boils down to what type of game is wanted, one wear all of these passive things deal with incoming damage (Toughness from armor for power , XXX from armor for conditions) or one where people have to make active choices in the game (Do I use this cleanse NOW or do I wait just a bit longer)

DeceiverX.8361:

Taobella.6597:

you do know… weakness make it so a player can not crit.?

Not true; it causes a 50% chance to not crit and drops the damage of power-based attacks by 50%.

oh really i did not know about power damage loss part maybe that why it seem like 100% xD

Yeah, it’s a really strong condition.

Yeah…toughness does nothing. Weakness and resistance do, and what are those? Oh, right boons / conditions. Go figure.

Gotejjeken.1267:

Yeah…toughness does nothing. Weakness and resistance do, and what are those? Oh, right boons / conditions. Go figure.

thats because condis exist to counter guards and warriors that stack toughness

Same way criticals exist to eliminate eles and rangers

this game exists in a state of a balancing circle the current meta for defense is toughness thus the current meta for offense is condi. Soon the meta will shift to condi cleansing builds (boom boom lightfield) when that happens guess what the offensive meta will be? thats right conditions. when that happens the defensive meta will switch to toughness stacking which will cause the offensive meta to switch to condi building.

Basically its a player mentality thing metas take several months to mature and become enough of a problem that players build specifically to counter it which causes the original meta itself to fall out of meta since you then have to counter the counter. then counter the counters counter countered counter. See how this works? its total and utter nonsense and the reality is the only way this will ever go away is if Anet starts softcapping stats and make balanced builds the meta which would be a TERRIBLE thing because then everyone would run celestial with 1-2 cleanses and a mix of crit/condi weapons which would be even more boring to play.

TLDR there is no solution stop whining

Rangerdeity.5847:

thats because condis exist to counter guards and warriors that stack toughness

Same way criticals exist to eliminate eles and rangers

The rest of your post notwithstanding (because it was fine), the above claims make no sense. Condis don’t especially impact heavy classes more than light classes, and heavy classes don’t necessarily stack toughness more either (often less). Same goes for criticals for the same reasons.

It’s long been recognized that the differences in armor (not toughness) between the different classes isn’t the major factor that perhaps was intended, and that light armor classes are often the tankiest in the game due to more important factors.

Condition damage is more to address tanking which may or may not include added armor but also includes invulns chaining blocks dodges and having healing in the build.

Without condition builds one would see a lot more tanking where a person would Turtle up , heal and restore health via other measures, unturtle fight and turtle up again to heal.

Junkpile.7439:

apharma.3741:

DeceiverX.8361:

Junkpile.7439:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Junkpile.7439:

Well you can’t dodge thief first attack. First backstab is instant straight from stealth.

Said thief has already blown most of his action points, or shadow refuge, to pull that off without you seeing it coming.

If you saw a thief suddenly go invisible, you can pretty much assume he’s coming for you, and throw up a block.

Most thieves aren’t carrying around 20 seconds of stealth anymore.

Hell, tbh. Most of the thieves I’ve fought aren’t even wearing zerkers gear anymore. Backstabbing isn’t as stupidly amazing as it used to be.

As for the discussion, everyone runs tanky as hell now-a-days. Why are you trying to make that even worse?

I literally sat in a 15 man group’s bomb yesterday questioning “where is the damage”. I’ll tell you where it was, non-existent. They were just melee training and killing all the scrubs that don’t know how to dodge, and are running PvE gear.

The only class I even remotely fear in this game is a reaper, and that’s only because of all the boon corruption.

I don’t have blocks. So should i use mistform straight after thief go stealth?

As an ele you have the ability to negate almost all power thief damage by just camping Earth with Stone Heart.

If you see them stealth up, you can swap attunements and the backstab will get negated (technically blocked – including unblockable attacks – on any critical strike as it negates procs as well) entirely. Backstab is actually less-bursty than just using dagger AA after Shadow Shot. Strictly speaking, ele is probably the second best power-thief-killer in the game if traited to deal with them, following DH. FA played well hard-counters thief as well because it has mass AoE blinds which negate stealth attack usage and offers a lot of CC and huge burst numbers.

Anticipating the attack from stealth is an acquired skill that is also best learned by just playing a thief for a while.

He doesn’t just play ele though, saw him running around most of the time on scrapper with toolkit for more blocks. He then rage whispered half my guild saying they should play something with risk like Sc/D ele. This is with me playing a core DD ele so not exactly something super easy in the meta so take that how you will.

If he as a roamer hasn’t a counter to thieves oneshotting him that’s his problem because many classes will CC and burst from stealth given half a chance. He could always trait tempests defence and/or use arcane shield or even have auto arcane shield at 50% and not be silly enough to run full zerk.

If you run full zerk Sc/D ele and have only mistform as your defence that is 100% your fault and you deserve to die for running a bad build.

Full glass vanilla s/d ele players are only ones who i don’t send rage whispers. D/D ele is braindead spec and only reason to play it is low skill level.

As an ele main you have actually disgusted me by this statement. D/D ele is is not even that meta anymore and you expect us to take you seriously?

Smh. Like the person said above, you deserve to die if you run for zerks with Sc/F

Junkpile.7439:

apharma.3741:

DeceiverX.8361:

Junkpile.7439:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Junkpile.7439:

Well you can’t dodge thief first attack. First backstab is instant straight from stealth.

Said thief has already blown most of his action points, or shadow refuge, to pull that off without you seeing it coming.

If you saw a thief suddenly go invisible, you can pretty much assume he’s coming for you, and throw up a block.

Most thieves aren’t carrying around 20 seconds of stealth anymore.

Hell, tbh. Most of the thieves I’ve fought aren’t even wearing zerkers gear anymore. Backstabbing isn’t as stupidly amazing as it used to be.

As for the discussion, everyone runs tanky as hell now-a-days. Why are you trying to make that even worse?

I literally sat in a 15 man group’s bomb yesterday questioning “where is the damage”. I’ll tell you where it was, non-existent. They were just melee training and killing all the scrubs that don’t know how to dodge, and are running PvE gear.

The only class I even remotely fear in this game is a reaper, and that’s only because of all the boon corruption.

I don’t have blocks. So should i use mistform straight after thief go stealth?

As an ele you have the ability to negate almost all power thief damage by just camping Earth with Stone Heart.

If you see them stealth up, you can swap attunements and the backstab will get negated (technically blocked – including unblockable attacks – on any critical strike as it negates procs as well) entirely. Backstab is actually less-bursty than just using dagger AA after Shadow Shot. Strictly speaking, ele is probably the second best power-thief-killer in the game if traited to deal with them, following DH. FA played well hard-counters thief as well because it has mass AoE blinds which negate stealth attack usage and offers a lot of CC and huge burst numbers.

Anticipating the attack from stealth is an acquired skill that is also best learned by just playing a thief for a while.

He doesn’t just play ele though, saw him running around most of the time on scrapper with toolkit for more blocks. He then rage whispered half my guild saying they should play something with risk like Sc/D ele. This is with me playing a core DD ele so not exactly something super easy in the meta so take that how you will.

If he as a roamer hasn’t a counter to thieves oneshotting him that’s his problem because many classes will CC and burst from stealth given half a chance. He could always trait tempests defence and/or use arcane shield or even have auto arcane shield at 50% and not be silly enough to run full zerk.

If you run full zerk Sc/D ele and have only mistform as your defence that is 100% your fault and you deserve to die for running a bad build.

Full glass vanilla s/d ele players are only ones who i don’t send rage whispers. D/D ele is braindead spec and only reason to play it is low skill level.

No one reads your signature do they?

Again, a lot of posters want WvW balanced around a 1v1 mode. It’s designed to be balanced around group play. (Granted, whether it’s actually balanced is another argument)

Lilyanna.9361:

Junkpile.7439:

apharma.3741:

DeceiverX.8361:

Junkpile.7439:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Junkpile.7439:

Well you can’t dodge thief first attack. First backstab is instant straight from stealth.

Said thief has already blown most of his action points, or shadow refuge, to pull that off without you seeing it coming.

If you saw a thief suddenly go invisible, you can pretty much assume he’s coming for you, and throw up a block.

Most thieves aren’t carrying around 20 seconds of stealth anymore.

Hell, tbh. Most of the thieves I’ve fought aren’t even wearing zerkers gear anymore. Backstabbing isn’t as stupidly amazing as it used to be.

As for the discussion, everyone runs tanky as hell now-a-days. Why are you trying to make that even worse?

I literally sat in a 15 man group’s bomb yesterday questioning “where is the damage”. I’ll tell you where it was, non-existent. They were just melee training and killing all the scrubs that don’t know how to dodge, and are running PvE gear.

The only class I even remotely fear in this game is a reaper, and that’s only because of all the boon corruption.

I don’t have blocks. So should i use mistform straight after thief go stealth?

As an ele you have the ability to negate almost all power thief damage by just camping Earth with Stone Heart.

If you see them stealth up, you can swap attunements and the backstab will get negated (technically blocked – including unblockable attacks – on any critical strike as it negates procs as well) entirely. Backstab is actually less-bursty than just using dagger AA after Shadow Shot. Strictly speaking, ele is probably the second best power-thief-killer in the game if traited to deal with them, following DH. FA played well hard-counters thief as well because it has mass AoE blinds which negate stealth attack usage and offers a lot of CC and huge burst numbers.

Anticipating the attack from stealth is an acquired skill that is also best learned by just playing a thief for a while.

He doesn’t just play ele though, saw him running around most of the time on scrapper with toolkit for more blocks. He then rage whispered half my guild saying they should play something with risk like Sc/D ele. This is with me playing a core DD ele so not exactly something super easy in the meta so take that how you will.

If he as a roamer hasn’t a counter to thieves oneshotting him that’s his problem because many classes will CC and burst from stealth given half a chance. He could always trait tempests defence and/or use arcane shield or even have auto arcane shield at 50% and not be silly enough to run full zerk.

If you run full zerk Sc/D ele and have only mistform as your defence that is 100% your fault and you deserve to die for running a bad build.

Full glass vanilla s/d ele players are only ones who i don’t send rage whispers. D/D ele is braindead spec and only reason to play it is low skill level.

As an ele main you have actually disgusted me by this statement. D/D ele is is not even that meta anymore and you expect us to take you seriously?

Smh. Like the person said above, you deserve to die if you run for zerks with Sc/F

I don’t use Sc/F because focus is lame boring weapon, cheating and makes everything too easy. Offhand dagger and phoenix are only reasons to play ele. If i see ele that use focus or main hand dagger i spam him rage whispers.