Guild Wars 2

In tier 3, towers are flipping like crazy since patch and paper gates seem to have less HP as well. Are other tiers experiencing this too? I’m just curious, because towers do not last long anymore, lol.

Its more likely due to the lack of orange swords.

Persephone.7436:

Its more likely due to the lack of orange swords.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Its crazy though. I look at map, and bam, tower we just took already owned by another server within a minute or 2. People aren’t even upgrading them due to I assume the length of time to even get a tier 1 upgrade + the cost vs ‘stealth’ capping due to no orange swords.

Towers are so cheep, even if you do it twice an hour its nothing. No upgrades are a major reason they would be flipping. I do cringe a little when I order WP in SM though.

People don’t want to upgrade as much because if no one is going to sit and camp on it and sentry for the place, it can be gone in 2 minutes virtually unnoticed.

Game is becoming more like musical keeps, failed Warhammer style.

Utter rubbish, if you were not investigating / scouting white swords before as well as now your doing wrong.

Whiners got to whine.

Ps no gates seen the same to me.

We’ve been holding our stuff well so far for 4 hours now, we lost towers due to not being able to sacrifice resources to defend it and not due to ninja capping. Surprise attacks, yes, close calls, yes, but that was all prevented with scouts and real-people sentries standing guard/watch.

This is why you need scouts.

L2P
L2P
L2P
L2P
L2P

kuora.5402:

This is why you need scouts.

L2P
L2P
L2P
L2P
L2P

You’re definitely right. But you mustn’t forget that this is a game that’s meant to be played for fun. Scouting is not fun for 99% of the players. Therefore, it will never be done enough. As a consequence the recent changes weren’t a good idea for the gameplay as a whole.

Scouting over glorifies it a bit, its more sentry duty to be honest. Sure you can run circles around your assigned tower if you want, but you really can’t afford to let a zerg slip on a door or wall at all. Once 3 or 4 rams are down, without being interrupted, the place is likely gonna fall before reinforcements show up anyway, espeically if WPs aren’t established. Not like those are hard to contest ahead of time either.

Turkman.1089:

kuora.5402:

This is why you need scouts.

L2P
L2P
L2P
L2P
L2P

You’re definitely right. But you mustn’t forget that this is a game that’s meant to be played for fun. Scouting is not fun for 99% of the players. Therefore, it will never be done enough. As a consequence the recent changes weren’t a good idea for the gameplay as a whole.

You need scouts now though. Rotate it. If you want to win, sometimes you have to do things that you don’t necessarily want to do. No scouts is fine, but that’s going to cost you a tower.

kuora.5402:

Turkman.1089:

kuora.5402:

This is why you need scouts.

L2P
L2P
L2P
L2P
L2P

You’re definitely right. But you mustn’t forget that this is a game that’s meant to be played for fun. Scouting is not fun for 99% of the players. Therefore, it will never be done enough. As a consequence the recent changes weren’t a good idea for the gameplay as a whole.

You need scouts now though. Rotate it. If you want to win, sometimes you have to do things that you don’t necessarily want to do. No scouts is fine, but that’s going to cost you a tower.

True, but other than probably the highest tiers, there will be not enough people willing to do the boring part (together with the incredible ease superiour rams/katas carve through walls/gates, which makes it at times hard to defend in time even if the alarm was rang at the first possible moment). Thus making recapping just as easy. In theory this change is a good one. But in reality it will play out very differently and I guess in a few weeks time most will think that it wasn’t a good idea.

We don’t mean just guards at your base to say “4 rams are down.” You need to have people keeping tabs of enemy movements across the whole map, or at least, between key points they traverse so you can have a group heading towards a tower to defend it before the enemy gets there or while the enemy is setting up a siege.

It takes mass communication across the entire map or a large well organized guild.

I hope your mesmer sweeping lol.

Now to drain the lake in the middle of the BL’s, make it full of terrain, and the little quaggan nodes (ponds now) worth points…

Mance.5640:

Now to drain the lake in the middle of the BL’s, make it full of terrain, and the little quaggan nodes (ponds now) worth points…

Keep the water and make the nodes worth points anyway. Significant water battles is what WvW is missing.

GambitsEnd.6028:

Mance.5640:

Now to drain the lake in the middle of the BL’s, make it full of terrain, and the little quaggan nodes (ponds now) worth points…

Keep the water and make the nodes worth points anyway. Significant water battles is what WvW is missing.

underwater keeps and towers. this I would love!

Orange swords no longer appear on the towers but the white swords do. Since nothing but the enemy attacks towers (no quaggans) then all you have to do is pay attention to your map and look for white swords as well as orange ones. In truth there is little difference then before, only that you no longer can ignore white swords on supply camps towers or keeps.

Soon servers will adept, they will stop zerging and have 3-5 groups running around..
So there is always a group close to a white sword to check it out.
And to defend the towers if needed.

This game feels more like a job every day…

Farout.8207:

This game feels more like a job every day…

If you don’t like your job you can resign…

Dutchares.6084:

Soon servers will adept, they will stop zerging and have 3-5 groups running around..
So there is always a group close to a white sword to check it out.
And to defend the towers if needed.

…and stall even a bigger zerg long enough for reinforcements to be able to arrive in time.

On Abbadon I play mostly on BL of the leading server. Even if there is a large zerg around from my server, its mostly tower& camp flipping like crazy. Especially the more pve-/reward-oriented zergs take stuff only to lose it some minutes later again…and again..and again…
Arguing that its not worth to upgrade or leave some arrow carts behind in some tower, cuz will be lost in some minutes…

Yeah, some way of seeing it… I guess.

Still, I (and others) have been able to show numerous times that 2-3 well-placed arrow carts can:
- effectivly stall the enemy for reinforcements to arrive
- even “fend” of smaller groups who search “easy targets”
- attract & animate PUGs to help in building/repairing/scouting/patroling/defending (…and even if its only 1 dolyak run)
- net in high rewards if enemy pushes relentlessly or by doing patrols
(…especially in combo with ballista and/or 1-2 players pushing out, bursting weakend targets)
- Holding towers >30 minutes at least
(mostly 1-3h…enemy always seems to know when I go afk for some more minutes…^^)

Possible mostly by…:
useing blueprint
jumpjump
1 PUG jumps,too
othe PUG takeing step backwards, then jumps into direction of nearest camp, signaling he needs supply
everybody jumps
Setting up BP and building it
everyone jumps happy direction camp to cap/get supply

…without haveing to group, nor do you need a Com Symbol, no TS or chat
(except for putting out scout-info/calling reinforcements…if needed at all^^)
…you form (at least temporary) a guard/patrol squad of a “free & democratic” nature…

Since the white swords dont show up on your minimap its basically impossible to defend a tower properly during early morning hours. You have to check your large map constantly and cant really do anything else. You have to start running as soon as you spot white swords to be there in time.
That whole idea might work out on heavy pupulated servers, but with less than 20 ppl during night shift you are totally screwed.

Do you know how insanely arrogant as well as ignorant you sound when you spout that BS about L2P because T8 doesn’t have the numbers for scouts.

We know the need for scouts, but guess what we can’t learn man power genius. Just getting the new WvWers to go to the right general area is difficult, good luck getting them to scout and even if they did they don’t tell anyone in map chat.

Grats for being on a higher tier server with enough people to sit around and scout, we don’t have the luxury.

Don’t forget that your server is the one in the higher tier not you, don’t pretend for even a second that makes you even a mediocre player.

Diashame.6328:

Utter rubbish, if you were not investigating / scouting white swords before as well as now your doing wrong.

Whiners got to whine.

Ps no gates seen the same to me.

I wasn’t whining. I was asking if people were witnessing the same thing. Where in my post was I qq’ing? I was simply asking a question.

kuora.5402:

You need scouts now though.

No you don’t.

What does owning a tower get you? Points, and some really minor bonuses that reset every week. Most people don’t care.

What does TAKING a tower get you? Karma, XP, money and usually credit towards something or another in your daily. Not to mention loot and badges from killing the guards and any scouts that happen to wander in too late.

I think you’ll find that the number of people who care about “winning”, which is a pretty meaningless thing to do, is relatively small compared to the number of people out to farm up some goodies.

The day will come when people will yell at you for defending a tower, because they want to take it back. Happens in other games that make offense easier and more rewarding than defense. “Only noobs scout and defend. Stop hurting the team.”

Amusing footnote, btw, for people proud of being in T1 and really up on “scouting”:

Sorrow’s Furnace, tier 8, has more bonuses right now than Sanctum of Rall and Sea of Sorrows in tier 1.

Moving up the tiers doesn’t necessarily give you better rewards or more bonuses. What gives you rewards is letting the enemy flip a tower so you can flip it back. I don’t like it but that’s the way it works. Defense CAN be rewarding but it’s more difficult, especially now that you can’t easily see where the fight is even at.

Slamz.5376:

kuora.5402:

You need scouts now though.

No you don’t.

What does owning a tower get you? Points, and some really minor bonuses that reset every week. Most people don’t care.

What does TAKING a tower get you? Karma, XP, money and usually credit towards something or another in your daily. Not to mention loot and badges from killing the guards and any scouts that happen to wander in too late.

I think you’ll find that the number of people who care about “winning”, which is a pretty meaningless thing to do, is relatively small compared to the number of people out to farm up some goodies.

The day will come when people will yell at you for defending a tower, because they want to take it back. Happens in other games that make offense easier and more rewarding than defense. “Only noobs scout and defend. Stop hurting the team.”

In other words, WvW will now just become a grind fest eh?

Yeah, scouting is good, but if noone listens, it doesn’t help. Perfect example of this:

I was on EB with a few guildies last night and we were going to check out RQ. I took the south path from the keep into RQ and about 10 YB players were heading my way. I thus went into the nearest tower (Aldon’s tower) to not get ganked and they at first didn’t attack the tower (I think they went after something else nearby). I called it out in team chat, but only 1 person came. I then told my guild in party chat and they came, then after calling it out in team chat a couple more times, more people came. Apparently, noone noticed me calling it out in team chat the first time. Aldon’s was fully upgraded. By the time we got the YB players dead, the gate was at 50%. If people actually listened in team chat and came sooner, that gate would have not gotten to 50%.

Now, if I hadn’t been forced into Aldon’s to escape that group of 10 (and thus didn’t see them heading away from RQ), they probably would have taken Aldon’s and we would have lost a fully upgraded tower, because people apparently were not coming over for white swords, let alone me telling them in team chat “10 attacking aldon’s”.

If you cared about defending more you might be out of T8…

Also it all scales. Even low population if you have 5 guys on a door, but ONE defender is in there on an arrow cart or a cata you’re not getting in for some time.

Asura haven’t perfected their satellite coverage and drone technology good enough yet to properly updated their elite 21st century soldiers HUD’s with up to the second live feeds…

Oh wait, cannons are the pinnacle of technology thus far.

Now, if you could build a siege balloon with some asura in it that provided the same orange swords thing that would be cool. And 5 mans could get points for taking it out.

Mance.5640:

If you cared about defending more you might be out of T8…

1st place team in T8 gets better rewards than the 2nd place team in T1.

You’re doing boring jobs for nothing.

I bet the first place team in any Tier gets better rewards than a team in 2nd or 3rd…

Mance.5640:

I bet the first place team in any Tier gets better rewards than a team in 2nd or 3rd…

What he mean is: JQ do boring jobs to get the same reward as SF without having to do it…

You keep saying if we cared about defending…

I can’t say this any clearer: We do not have the numbers.

If we use scouts or keep players in empty towers, we’ll never take enemy keeps again. It’s difficult enough to field competitive numbers in tier 8, near impossible to use the little we have for luxury roles.

I don’t quite understand why you feel like you are qualified to argue with people about T8 when they fight in it every single day.

I don’t comment about tier 1 because I haven’t set foot in it, I’d suggest you do the same.

Jeknar.6184:

Farout.8207:

This game feels more like a job every day…

If you don’t like your job you can resign…

Yes I sure can.

You’re saying YOU as in T8, an entire tier, doesn’t have the #‘s to take towers and defend… That’s rubbish. The other servers in that bracket (maybe the other one, as I think one has alot more pop) also have similar #’s and would face the same problem as you.

We 4-5 man keeps all day everyday in T1, so I"m sure it’s possible in T2-T69. Granted it’s vastly more difficult due to the nature of the tier.

I saw this coming a mile away. Problems with WvW need to addressed at the core, not with some band-aid patches.

For those telling people to l2p, scout and defend/upgrade towers, consider how intrinsically fun and engaging these tasks actually are. Well?

Slamz.5376:

Amusing footnote, btw, for people proud of being in T1 and really up on “scouting”:

Sorrow’s Furnace, tier 8, has more bonuses right now than Sanctum of Rall and Sea of Sorrows in tier 1.

Moving up the tiers doesn’t necessarily give you better rewards or more bonuses. What gives you rewards is letting the enemy flip a tower so you can flip it back. I don’t like it but that’s the way it works. Defense CAN be rewarding but it’s more difficult, especially now that you can’t easily see where the fight is even at.

This is true, sadly. It’s a fundamental flaw with using extrinsic carrot stick rewards as this game loves to do so often.

I actually don’t consider it to be much of a problem in T1 and T2 servers since players in those servers care more about the competition. It would be nice for the rewards to scale with the level of effort, however, but it’s not a necessity.

Mance, just stop.

You can’t even name the server that’s roflstomping the tier, yet you know enough about it to argue with the people who play in it daily? What?

I’m on “that one server with the high pop”(Sorrows Furnace, btw mr informed). We don’t have the numbers(especially outside of peak hours) to run scouts and keep defenders in currently idle places. We also lack organization or communication outside of our good guilds.

They do face the same problem as us, we just have more coverage and larger zergs to take advantage.

Please come to tier8 and actually participate for five minutes so you can have even a idea of what you’re talking about.

Mance.5640:

We 4-5 man keeps all day everyday in T1, so I"m sure it’s possible in T2-T69. Granted it’s vastly more difficult due to the nature of the tier.

Translation: you PvE karma farm, just like people in all other tiers.

Brag about taking a keep against 30+ defenders. That’s pro.

Taking a keep against NPCs while nobody is home is PvE. It’s not exactly a skill, especially now that even 20 people beating a gate down with their fists isn’t enough to display orange swords. You don’t even need to be organized anymore. The only reason to do it with 4-5 people now is that you don’t have many friends.

Magiofdeath.2745:

(…)People aren’t even upgrading them due to I assume the length of time to even get a tier 1 upgrade + the cost vs ‘stealth’ capping due to no orange swords.

Why would you upgrade a tower you do not plan on holding? If you plan to hold a tower, why would you not leave a scout, much less several defenders with an AC or two in them?

One scout stops any stealth cap. Two guys and two arrow carts will bounce anything less than 20 attackers out of there so fast, if they even bother to attack in the first place.

If this is how tier 1 behaves I’m going to steer clear.

You post a condescending post full of ignorance, which is quickly proven to be incorrect, so you tell people to shut up. What an elitist arrogant fool.

I wasn’t complaining about it negatively effecting sorrows furnace, I was pointing out that our entire server lacks the man power to play such games so it’s having a negative effect on everyone in T8.

I’m not sure why you think we can’t cap things, its too easy which is the entire complaint.

Seriously are you trolling me right now or are you always this ridiculous?

Is all of tier 1 like this guy?

Tier 1 can be that way, yes. It just depends on who you talk to. I think JQ/SoR/BG is going to have more forum thread problems than JQ/SoR/SoS or JQ/SoS/BG. BG and SoR already hate each other and apparently BG hates JQ. Its like a triangle of hate. That being said, there are some great people on JQ and BG and I’m sure SoS and SoR. Its just a lot of the forum people that are bad really.

The swords were important to help us move and cover with smaller groups. Last night we lost the whole map. What happened 20 of us (the only 20 on the map were defending SE tower on our BL). Why? Because there were 30 people in front of us with 2 rams and 4 catapults. During this time 80% of the map flipped. We break up to start taking camps only to look at map and find garrison is gone after that everything was wiped people logged out.

Mance.5640:

If you cared about defending more you might be out of T8…

lol! you think a servers rating and its matches are anything besides a measure of population? hah!

its too funny, really

last night... i was running around EB and ferg BL with a group of friends. we were running in concert with a pack of people following a commander (started with 4 in my group, eventually got 5... the pack with the commander had maybe 15). i know we left a small group defending stuff in our own BL (probably 5-10) and i’m sure we had a few floaters solo-flipping camps and killing vet guards here and there. if we left 2, or even just ONE, at each thing we owned for defense, pray tell: who would we actually use to attack with, hmm?

i appreciate the LTplay commentary, tho. you’ve cemented my resolve to not spend a single penny or gold coin to transfer further up the ladder. we can flip camps and towers in 5 man groups (or less) just fine, thanks, so please don’t bother to transfer here to "show" me anything.

Jeknar.6184:

Farout.8207:

This game feels more like a job every day…

If you don’t like your job you can resign…

Alot of people are actually..you can joke about it,but people are starting to leave you know..wich will hit you in the end aswell when theres not much people to play against anymore.