Guild Wars 2

New Revision
To all WvW-ers new and old, I know quite a few of you completely loathe PvE. Personally, I don’t like PvE in Guild Wars 2 besides an occasional dungeon and doing a few events with my guild. WvW was the alternative to “all-out” PvE Anet offered us where players can jump right into from lv 1. Before the features update, “up-levels” (players under 80 in WvW) weren’t in as bad of a spot as they are now. They had a few trait points to help them along in WvW, starting from level 11. After the update, the new trait system pushed back earning trait points to level 30 from level 11. A player now earns a trait point every 6 levels. This severely crippled up-leveled players in WvW and left any up-levels below lv 30 with any traits. Now it is pretty pointless to continue leveling an up-level in WvW with traits set so far back and it propagates the idea that WvW is “endgame-only” and any up-levels aren’t welcome.

Keynotes

Under the old system you would hit lv 30 and could have at least 2 major traits to help you out in WvW. To reach “at least two major traits” in the new system you have to reach level 48. You don’t reach the same effectiveness for at least 18 levels when you’d have at least another major trait by that time under the old system.###

Factor in that this makes gear more relevant for those with alts. Before, many players didn’t waste time trying to obtain their stat combos before lv 80, as they had trait points to provide a sort of cushion for whatever stats they needed. +

This update creates three issues:
1) Under lv 30 characters are solely gear dependant as they can no longer rely on the bonuses from traits, till lv 30. This affects players in both PvE and WvW. It’s a way of trying to force the importance (false) gear before lv 30. In other words, a gear check for PvE/WvW. +

2) Once you hit 30 you get your first “point” (the equiv. of 5 in the previous system) and every 6 levels you get another point. The new system fleshes out like this:
30, 36, 42, 48, 54, 60, 66, 72, 78, 80
1 point 30 to 60
2 point 66 to 80
A player’s overall effectiveness is reduced by a lot:
Old system at lv 60: 50 trait points (10 trait points under new system)
New System at lv 60: 6 trait points
The new system actually cripples you, though the effect is reduced the closer you get to 80. ###

3)For those that got grandfathered into the new system this doesn’t really affect you much unless you want to pick up one of the new traits (as if any would).
The updated trait system introduced a new way of obtaining traits….only in PvE. So what does that mean for new players? For those with interests only in WvW, they will be forced to do the personal story or PvE, in general in order to obtain the traits they need for whatever build they want for WvW.
I don’t see how it’s right to drag players into undesirable content, they have no interest in whatsoever for the sake of a trait.

It was already an uphill battle being an up-level in WvW with an incomplete build. But as an alternative to “all-out” PvE, it was definitely better to weather the storm and stick with WvW. As of now, it’s pretty much a battle lost for those under 30 and the battle is even more vicious for those between lv 30-80….

I’m not really sure anyone is going to notice if an up level under 30 has traits or not. Pretty sure it doesn’t matter much.

Seeing how broke most new players are, we’ll soon see “zerk only, ping gear AND TRAITS” in dungeons.

On the upside, uplevels with guard stacks can gain up to 10k health due to wonky scaling.

Yes, the trait changes hit the wvw-levelling badly. I wouldn’t take any of my alts to wvw under 40-42 where the major sigils become available. Because the 2-3 trait points (+100-150 stats) wont make any difference.

Running zerg with guildmates or friends are much easier. You can tell your commander/leader that you invested 3-4 ranks in – let’s say – Ram Mastery or AC Mastery so they will leave you to operate the siege.

Unfortunately the WvW-Fun begins at level 60ish…

With other words: you can level up in wvw if you have wvw-experience in points AND as a player. I would not suggest to a brand new player though… It is sad because the wvw is the best part of the game. I use it as an advertisement for new players… “C’mon, you don’t have to kill wolves from level 1-80. Come to WvW and fight real ppl from level 15-20!”

Now this is gone…

@Roe It will become pretty noticeable with all the bodies lying on the ground when a zerg hits. You’ll definitely be able to pick out the weaker uplevels particularly ones for whatever classes you play.

@Jayden Ennok I think you’re in the wrong thread…

@arKRazor Wazzzup Halfpint!!

@Aggrostemma Seems more like anet want’s to draw people away from WvW… New players probably won’t even come unless their 80. Those with decent WxP are less incentivized to bringing any uplevel alts due to the trait changes.

I’m glad I noticed that you moved this discussion to the WvW forums. I’ll just put this as simple as I can: All the traits in the world won’t help you when your lv 30 character fights a fully geared lv 80 Invader.

And yes, every character under 30… in fact…. under 80 is not as effective as a lv 80. If I see an Uplevel marking on someone, that’s the first person I zerg down.

They nerfed all creatures below Level 80:

Balancing Creature Stats
Creatures in the level range of 11-79 have had their stats adjusted to account for the player obtaining traits and stats from trait lines later on in the leveling process.

@OP

WvW was always the endgame.

Gearing is the main thing that screws uplevels, not traits.

Leveling in WvW isn’t super easy unless you have a strong blob which can make up for your lack of health, dps, etc.

You’re a liability to your team as an uplevel as you can be downed in as little as a single hit (for those lucky zerker kitten meteornadoes)

but as someone above mentioned, with account bound wxp especially, you can sit back on siege and still be effective.

Uplevels are also screwed because they’re targeted first. uplevel arrow = easy target (again gearing is what makes uplevels so squishy, making no assessment of player skill)

the point that matters of my post is : uplevels were always screwed.

blakdoxa.7520:

@Roe It will become pretty noticeable with all the bodies lying on the ground when a zerg hits. You’ll definitely be able to pick out the weaker uplevels particularly ones for whatever classes you play.

@Jayden Ennok I think you’re in the wrong thread…

@arKRazor Wazzzup Halfpint!!

@Aggrostemma Seems more like anet want’s to draw people away from WvW… New players probably won’t even come unless their 80. Those with decent WxP are less incentivized to bringing any uplevel alts due to the trait changes.

I’m saying uplevels were never a threat to any decent 80. A good, geared 80 is like a champion level mob to even a full party of uplevels. Having traits at level 25 isn’t going to make them into some fighting force.

There were some traits available for 5-10 points that increased speed, or gave some other ability that often made up levels much more survivable in WvW if you knew how to take advantage of it. The traits were often much more useful than the stats. For anyone below 30 it is a major nerf.

blakdoxa.7520:

As we know quite a few people don’t like the PvE gw2 has offered us and decided to play out their characters in WvW.

Before the update traits would start from level 11 and go up to 80 (70 points). You would have 20 points by the time you hit level 30. It didn’t hurt as much to have uplevels in WvW because you’d have 2 major traits by 30, fleshing out a part of your build.

After the update traits no start at 30 with 1 (the equiv. of 5 in the previous system). Thus this really hits uplevels really hard particularly any under 30. The game is solely gear-dependant up to level 30. This pretty much reduces the effectiveness of characters below 80 and effectively makes any characters below 30 useless.

Did they intend to make WvW endgame only???? If so, why isn’t there a flippin’ level cap then… This trait change just guts uplevels…

Hell we got acc bound wxp. Alright cool, but now our uplevel alts are pretty useless now.

Literally working as intended.

A few of you are in the line of thinking “since I have my lv 80, that I use for WvW already, I’m not affected at all.”
There are a lot of people who would rather not waste their time bumbling through PvE. WvW was another option that Anet gave us for people that wanted an alternative to all out PvE. Now anyone below level 30 is shunted because they have no traits as opposed to before when you could have at least 2 major traits by 30.
Even more dirt in the face is that from 30 and up you only gain a “point” every 6 levels.

Try to open up your perspective. I understand that you aren’t “viable” till level 80, but for the many that can’t stomach PvE, including new players, this is really a setback.

Since folks didn’t seem like they understood what I was getting at… Revised the OP.

don’t forget the experience scrolls that you can use to instantly get to level 20. this doesn’t help directly, but if you do happen to have some stored in the bank it will help you get to level 30+ faster so you spend less time playing with no traits.

-ken

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Seeing how broke most new players are, we’ll soon see “zerk only, ping gear AND TRAITS” in dungeons.

Segregation here we come.

blakdoxa.7520:

A few of you are in the line of thinking “since I have my lv 80, that I use for WvW already, I’m not affected at all.”
There are a lot of people who would rather not waste their time bumbling through PvE. WvW was another option that Anet gave us for people that wanted an alternative to all out PvE. Now anyone below level 30 is shunted because they have no traits as opposed to before when you could have at least 2 major traits by 30.
Even more dirt in the face is that from 30 and up you only gain a “point” every 6 levels.

Try to open up your perspective. I understand that you aren’t “viable” till level 80, but for the many that can’t stomach PvE, including new players, this is really a setback.

Uplevels were always shunted in world. Why? Simply put.. RALLYBOTS EVERY WHERE. Personally I hate pve, but I’m not gonna put that extra burden on my group just cause I want to try a new toon. I can take myself to EoTM, doesn’t much matter there if I’m upleveled or not most days. I still get fights, tons of badges and karma for my new gear.

Just bring out your uplevels on Thursday and Friday pre reset during Karma train time. If you don’t like PvE you can always gain levels in WvW doing PvD.

EotM and the queens sale karma train are totally suitable karma trains for an uplevel, since if you’re bringing an uplevel to WvW, you’re almost surely there just to zerg around. Not every time, but most times.

Adahilia.3678:

blakdoxa.7520:

A few of you are in the line of thinking “since I have my lv 80, that I use for WvW already, I’m not affected at all.”
There are a lot of people who would rather not waste their time bumbling through PvE. WvW was another option that Anet gave us for people that wanted an alternative to all out PvE. Now anyone below level 30 is shunted because they have no traits as opposed to before when you could have at least 2 major traits by 30.
Even more dirt in the face is that from 30 and up you only gain a “point” every 6 levels.

Try to open up your perspective. I understand that you aren’t “viable” till level 80, but for the many that can’t stomach PvE, including new players, this is really a setback.

Uplevels were always shunted in world. Why? Simply put.. RALLYBOTS EVERY WHERE. Personally I hate pve, but I’m not gonna put that extra burden on my group just cause I want to try a new toon. I can take myself to EoTM, doesn’t much matter there if I’m upleveled or not most days. I still get fights, tons of badges and karma for my new gear.

So you are downplaying the issue and how it affects you simply because of a different mechanic of the game, rally. Anyone can be a rallybot no matter what level they are.
I don’t like rallying in WvW either. I’d rather we all be sent straight to defeated state so people just WP instead. But it’s here to stay for the duration in WvW.

I don’t understand how it’s relevant in this thread about how the new trait system cripples up-levels compared to the old system, to the point of not even carrying them in till lv 60 (at least two traitlines).

Trait changes screwed uplevels (WWW) = Nice patch.

blakdoxa.7520:

Adahilia.3678:

blakdoxa.7520:

A few of you are in the line of thinking “since I have my lv 80, that I use for WvW already, I’m not affected at all.”
There are a lot of people who would rather not waste their time bumbling through PvE. WvW was another option that Anet gave us for people that wanted an alternative to all out PvE. Now anyone below level 30 is shunted because they have no traits as opposed to before when you could have at least 2 major traits by 30.
Even more dirt in the face is that from 30 and up you only gain a “point” every 6 levels.

Try to open up your perspective. I understand that you aren’t “viable” till level 80, but for the many that can’t stomach PvE, including new players, this is really a setback.

Uplevels were always shunted in world. Why? Simply put.. RALLYBOTS EVERY WHERE. Personally I hate pve, but I’m not gonna put that extra burden on my group just cause I want to try a new toon. I can take myself to EoTM, doesn’t much matter there if I’m upleveled or not most days. I still get fights, tons of badges and karma for my new gear.

So you are downplaying the issue and how it affects you simply because of a different mechanic of the game, rally. Anyone can be a rallybot no matter what level they are.
I don’t like rallying in WvW either. I’d rather we all be sent straight to defeated state so people just WP instead. But it’s here to stay for the duration in WvW.

I don’t understand how it’s relevant in this thread about how the new trait system cripples up-levels compared to the old system, to the point of not even carrying them in till lv 60 (at least two traitlines).

Because you complained about people having more of a problem with uplevels in world. My point is that people have always had a problem with uplevels in world and the reason for it, they die all over the place. You were always crippled in the respect that you could not have 3 stat gear and won’t have it until you get to what level 55? It doesn’t matter how many traits you have, you are still a liability to the group as an uplevel in world. I don’t take uplevels to world for this very reason, even as a new player to the game I didn’t take an uplevel toon to world. A faster and easier way for you to level if you want to not do pve is to do EoTM.

Here’s the thing. We hardcore WvW players don’t want Uplevels to play on our servers. They’re called “lootbags” or “rally bait” in WvW circles for a reason. I’m not saying that you “can’t play the game how you like”, but rather “I don’t like that you choose to play with us with a weak character where PPT matters”.