Guild Wars 2

We have witnessed the ladder system even out to some degree since the end of free transfers. Ignoring the problems in the top and bottom tiers, the ladder started to work as intended, but a problem has occurred.

Now that the economy has given rise to the phenomenon of people feeling wealthier, whole-guild transfers are MUCH more viable and as we have seen recently, many guilds are moving to bandwagon servers, surfing them up the tiers and then transfering to another bandwagon server. This is a problem because when guilds move wholesale from one server to another the bias swings way out of whack on both the tier they leave and the tier they join – they then disrupt all the tiers they run through on their way up.

To address the bandwagon problem, Arenanet need to take action. It seems quite clear that financial disincentives are not enough and that Arenanet need to impose a limit to the number of transfers a player may make. I would suggest something like one transfer per six months.

TL;DR

• people are richer,
• transfers are effectively cheaper,
• bandwagoners are riding low-ranking servers up the ladder then repeating the feat,
• financial disincentive doesn’t work as intended,
• there should be a limit to transfers per year.

Not going to happen since transfers create money for Arenanet and limiting them to once per six months is effectively cutting off some of that income.

I dissagree, SFR and Deso are falling apart because of massive blobbing and skill lag. These 2 servers had by far the largest amount of skilled guilds. I would love to see them spread out (which they are doing) to lower servers to boost the entire WvW quality and boost the entire WvW competition.

If every server has atleast 3-4 big strong guilds, WvW ladder would be quite interesting.

ps.: what you are saying ain’t our intent. We don’t want to go higher than tier 5.

Didnt we already discuss this, as made even more obvious by the name of this thread (“take 2”)?

Also, one transfer every 6 months…. Do you want people to quit the game?

Genev.2450:

Didnt we already discuss this, as made even more obvious by the name of this thread (“take 2”)?

Also, one transfer every 6 months…. Do you want people to quit the game?

I accept that you’re critical, but could you please give an explanation as to why you don’t like my proposed solution to the issue?

Svarty.8019:

Genev.2450:

Didnt we already discuss this, as made even more obvious by the name of this thread (“take 2”)?

Also, one transfer every 6 months…. Do you want people to quit the game?

I accept that you’re critical, but could you please give an explanation as to why you don’t like my proposed solution to the issue?

It would indeed make more players leave the game due to stagnation.

Limiting a transfer to once every 6 months would probably be extreme, but I agree that the incentive structure for sticking to one server right now is non-existent. I could see something like giving each server exclusive weapon/armor skins that are only obtainable if you have been on that server for a certain number of months/years. That way guilds can move if they want, but there are rewards for the individuals that stay on one server and endure all the blow-out matches/ridiculous queues and lag that come with mass guild transfers.

Why do we need a second thread for this ? :/

I’m wasted, and can’t think of anything else than posting a massive ragepost of how kittened up the wvw system is and how the EU system is.
So I think I’ll just stay semi quiet.

MiLkZz.4789:

I dissagree, SFR and Deso are falling apart because of massive blobbing and skill lag. These 2 servers had by far the largest amount of skilled guilds. I would love to see them spread out (which they are doing) to lower servers to boost the entire WvW quality and boost the entire WvW competition.

If every server has atleast 3-4 big strong guilds, WvW ladder would be quite interesting.

ps.: what you are saying ain’t our intent. We don’t want to go higher than tier 5.

Massive zerging = skill? Laff.

Limiting transfers is not really fair in my opinion.

Putting a ban on WvWvW for transfers for a time period after the transfer, or giving new transfers a low priority in the queue for wvwvw may work to counterbalance the impact such mass guild transfers have on wvwvw.

I recently xfered myself (individually) and would not have minded such restrictions as they would protect the server I was joining.

to ppl from SFR and deso:
there is no skill lag in t7-t9, becose your enemies don’t use the skills, or don’t have time to do that, because they game level is too low.

Sorry Svarty but you are taking completely wrong approach to this. Instead of limiting how often people can transfer they should make people want to stay on a server.

Raege.1069:

Sorry Svarty but you are taking completely wrong approach to this. Instead of limiting how often people can transfer they should make people want to stay on a server.

they are trying, just look at how deep you must go into guild upgrade to get the “good” stuff, ie Missions, though people that don’t care for such things have no issue with moving servers and losing the time spent on getting said upgrades, its just not enough to entice people into server dedication.

Phunk.6103:

Raege.1069:

Sorry Svarty but you are taking completely wrong approach to this. Instead of limiting how often people can transfer they should make people want to stay on a server.

they are trying, just look at how deep you must go into guild upgrade to get the “good” stuff, ie Missions, though people that don’t care for such things have no issue with moving servers and losing the time spent on getting said upgrades, its just not enough to entice people into server dedication.

That is limiting too tho. Instead of all the limits they could look into what makes people tranfer and fix the reasons. They could make opponents change more often, not give free tranfers to servers that are already filled, switch glicko to something that doesn’t make people get stuck in certain tiers, add some open field objectives, fix skill lag. There is a lot of things Anet could do instead of adding more limits.

Ilesyt.7084:

Why do we need a second thread for this ? :/

Because this thread addresses a new issue which has occurred AFTER the end of free transfers.

ARM.3912:

MiLkZz.4789:

I dissagree, SFR and Deso are falling apart because of massive blobbing and skill lag. These 2 servers had by far the largest amount of skilled guilds. I would love to see them spread out (which they are doing) to lower servers to boost the entire WvW quality and boost the entire WvW competition.

If every server has atleast 3-4 big strong guilds, WvW ladder would be quite interesting.

ps.: what you are saying ain’t our intent. We don’t want to go higher than tier 5.

Massive zerging = skill? Laff.

Ask any of these guilds to GvG and you’ll soon know how to play WvW. A blob is terrible to fight, but SFR and Deso had blobs of skilled players. Those were straight nightmares. There ain’t much skill in zerging no, but you can’t deny the players in the zerg were skilled.

Raege.1069:

Phunk.6103:

Raege.1069:

Sorry Svarty but you are taking completely wrong approach to this. Instead of limiting how often people can transfer they should make people want to stay on a server.

they are trying, just look at how deep you must go into guild upgrade to get the “good” stuff, ie Missions, though people that don’t care for such things have no issue with moving servers and losing the time spent on getting said upgrades, its just not enough to entice people into server dedication.

That is limiting too tho. Instead of all the limits they could look into what makes people tranfer and fix the reasons. They could make opponents change more often, not give free tranfers to servers that are already filled, switch glicko to something that doesn’t make people get stuck in certain tiers, add some open field objectives, fix skill lag. There is a lot of things Anet could do instead of adding more limits.

it’s not so much as limiting as trying to entice server dedication, and the reason people swap servers is quite obvious to be honest, people swap servers for several reasons, Queues, “blobs” and lag, are the general reasons, but there are some that seek more fun, and this is caused by match ups becoming stagnant and stale (look at t1 for example) as for changing the Glicko system to soemthing more “flexible” it is easier said than done, in nearly all rating systems there is a point that one can reach which blocks progress (ie reaching t1 is the point in gw2) once there, thats it, the only way is down, they could increase the pools of each tier to 6 servers per pool, and of the 6 servers you are randomized against each other and have some rating that will allow for servers to move through the tiers that way (not sure too much on details, ive not personally gave it THAT much thought yet),

Skill lag…that’s the “tricky” one so to speak, for them to fix it they need to find the cause, for a lamen (like alot of gamer, no insult intended) they seem to believe skill lag will have some sort of magical fix, it doesn’t, otherwise Anet would have sorted it by now, we can clearly see that skill lag is caused from players massing into one area but there is probably some background problems (like hardware) that is also causing such issues.

i wouldn’t say they’ve added too many limits that affect people too much, but they should consider trying to get the more “renowned” guilds to be more server dedicated if people believe that guilds jumping servers is causing balance issues for the lower servers when they receive and influx of people/guilds.

Get rid of server vs server.

Introduce factions. Call them anything, name doesn’t matter. I don’t care about lore either.

Instead of matches being drawn upon servers that have various population imbalances, factions drawing from the entire pool of WvW players would even all that out.

if there is no transfer, the WvW might not ruin the server, but destroy the game , then the game dies slowly and we can see more server merges is that what you want?

I would love WvW to work like a league. Sure, you’ll face some overwhelming force at times and roflstomp other servers, but you don’t need everyone to cluster into a specific tier in order to face competent opposition. I would happily switch to Vabbi if I knew, that once in a while, I got to fight a good guild or two. It would also take some pressure off the higher tiers. At the moment its a constant coverage battle, where guilds pull 15 hour shifts and it’s exhausting. Once you finally win, it all resets and start over, without so much as an hour to breathe out.
A more calm match-up once every few weeks would be welcome I think.
Now I know that some want balanced match-ups, but I can’t help but feel that it is doing more harm then good with the current system.

MiLkZz.4789:

I dissagree, SFR and Deso are falling apart because of massive blobbing and skill lag. These 2 servers had by far the largest amount of skilled guilds. I would love to see them spread out (which they are doing) to lower servers to boost the entire WvW quality and boost the entire WvW competition.

If every server has atleast 3-4 big strong guilds, WvW ladder would be quite interesting.

ps.: what you are saying ain’t our intent. We don’t want to go higher than tier 5.

The arrogance of this post is astounding.

Firstly there are plenty of quality small to medium WvW in the lower tiers. I’d like to see how your SFR and Deso guilds came out in 3v3, 5v5 or even a 10v10 without your huge amounts of Boon stacking and condition removal spamming.
Secondly if those guilds wanted high tier gameplay against the big high tier guilds…. they’d move to the higher tiers. There’s nothing worse than some arrogant guild come down into a low tier server and claim they’re here “to save the server”, or “teach us how to play wvw right”…

Erm no thanks. Go home.

Mizu.9387:

I would love WvW to work like a league. Sure, you’ll face some overwhelming force at times and roflstomp other servers, but you don’t need everyone to cluster into a specific tier in order to face competent opposition. I would happily switch to Vabbi if I knew, that once in a while, I got to fight a good guild or two. It would also take some pressure off the higher tiers. At the moment its a constant coverage battle, where guilds pull 15 hour shifts and it’s exhausting. Once you finally win, it all resets and start over, without so much as an hour to breathe out.
A more calm match-up once every few weeks would be welcome I think.
Now I know that some want balanced match-ups, but I can’t help but feel that it is doing more harm then good with the current system.

That would be terrible imo. Could you imagine Vabbi versus Vizunah? What an awful prospect that would be.
If you don’t want to pull 15 hour shifts then don’t, it’s simple.Believe it or not there’s more to life than winning a WvW matchup.

The most important thing for me is this game is about fun. Don’t play for points just play for the epic fights and sieges you can get when the numbers are even. And on this note I don’t feel transfers are necessarily a bad thing. The problem only comes when guilds move on mass. Especially in the lower tiers where 1 guid transfer is enough to hold a bl down by themselves.

Put it this way: Gh had one big guild join them – Xaoc at the turn of the year and it was enough to take us from T8 to winning in T5 before half of the transfers left.

Jimmy JimBob.2801:

MiLkZz.4789:

I dissagree, SFR and Deso are falling apart because of massive blobbing and skill lag. These 2 servers had by far the largest amount of skilled guilds. I would love to see them spread out (which they are doing) to lower servers to boost the entire WvW quality and boost the entire WvW competition.

If every server has atleast 3-4 big strong guilds, WvW ladder would be quite interesting.

ps.: what you are saying ain’t our intent. We don’t want to go higher than tier 5.

The arrogance of this post is astounding.

Firstly there are plenty of quality small to medium WvW in the lower tiers. I’d like to see how your SFR and Deso guilds came out in 3v3, 5v5 or even a 10v10 without your huge amounts of Boon stacking and condition removal spamming.
Secondly if those guilds wanted high tier gameplay against the big high tier guilds…. they’d move to the higher tiers. There’s nothing worse than some arrogant guild come down into a low tier server and claim they’re here “to save the server”, or “teach us how to play wvw right”…

Erm no thanks. Go home.

Please read his post again.

He is not saying all the ‘top’ guilds are in T1 but the majority of them.
Secondly he never said anything about these guilds teaching lower servers how to do WvW.

People read what they want these days.

Sird.4536:

Jimmy JimBob.2801:

MiLkZz.4789:

I dissagree, SFR and Deso are falling apart because of massive blobbing and skill lag. These 2 servers had by far the largest amount of skilled guilds. I would love to see them spread out (which they are doing) to lower servers to boost the entire WvW quality and boost the entire WvW competition.

If every server has atleast 3-4 big strong guilds, WvW ladder would be quite interesting.

ps.: what you are saying ain’t our intent. We don’t want to go higher than tier 5.

The arrogance of this post is astounding.

Firstly there are plenty of quality small to medium WvW in the lower tiers. I’d like to see how your SFR and Deso guilds came out in 3v3, 5v5 or even a 10v10 without your huge amounts of Boon stacking and condition removal spamming.
Secondly if those guilds wanted high tier gameplay against the big high tier guilds…. they’d move to the higher tiers. There’s nothing worse than some arrogant guild come down into a low tier server and claim they’re here “to save the server”, or “teach us how to play wvw right”…

Erm no thanks. Go home.

Please read his post again.

He is not saying all the ‘top’ guilds are in T1 but the majority of them.
Secondly he never said anything about these guilds teaching lower servers how to do WvW.

People read what they want these days.

To me “If every server had 3-4 big strong guilds” implies he doesn’t think the lower servers have them.
Secondly my quotes are what I’ve heard from certain transferring guilds into my tier (not all tbf) and is my experience of the attitude a big guild brings when it comes into the lower tiers. The main point of that paragraph in reference to the quote was the first sentence

Jimmy JimBob.2801:

Sird.4536:

Jimmy JimBob.2801:

MiLkZz.4789:

I dissagree, SFR and Deso are falling apart because of massive blobbing and skill lag. These 2 servers had by far the largest amount of skilled guilds. I would love to see them spread out (which they are doing) to lower servers to boost the entire WvW quality and boost the entire WvW competition.

If every server has atleast 3-4 big strong guilds, WvW ladder would be quite interesting.

ps.: what you are saying ain’t our intent. We don’t want to go higher than tier 5.

The arrogance of this post is astounding.

Firstly there are plenty of quality small to medium WvW in the lower tiers. I’d like to see how your SFR and Deso guilds came out in 3v3, 5v5 or even a 10v10 without your huge amounts of Boon stacking and condition removal spamming.
Secondly if those guilds wanted high tier gameplay against the big high tier guilds…. they’d move to the higher tiers. There’s nothing worse than some arrogant guild come down into a low tier server and claim they’re here “to save the server”, or “teach us how to play wvw right”…

Erm no thanks. Go home.

Please read his post again.

He is not saying all the ‘top’ guilds are in T1 but the majority of them.
Secondly he never said anything about these guilds teaching lower servers how to do WvW.

People read what they want these days.

To me “If every server had 3-4 big strong guilds” implies he doesn’t think the lower servers have them.

But isn’t that what you guys have been saying that the lower tiers DON’T have them and that’s why if even 2 big strong guilds join a server that doesn’t even have big guilds it will all imbalance everything ?

If the lower servers had ‘big’ guilds then why all this whinging.

He is saying if guilds spread out it will make WvW more competitive but atm there is noway to coordinate that.

There are seven English server in the lower tiers, moving en masse to the same server is clearly not the best choice. Don’t you think?

The first to move could not know what would have happened, but the others?

Obviously the guilds that complain about the blobs on the forum, love the bandwagon in the game.

Sird.4536:

If the lower servers had ‘big’ guilds then why all this whinging.

He is saying if guilds spread out it will make WvW more competitive but atm there is noway to coordinate that.

Fair enough they are much bigger – I took it in terms of quality and not size – but the ideology is still highly flawed. If every server had 3-4 big guilds it would kill off any impact the smaller guilds could have in open field fighting meaning, as we’ve seen in our current matchup, those guilds have to combine forces just to match the numbers they face. This has then led to ridiculous QQ of blobbing.

The arrogance stems from the idea that the players who play in these tiers and in these guilds want to fight in big 40 vs 40 + battles, and that that way is the best way for everyone. If we wanted it, we’d go make it happen.

But anyway, this is becoming too much of a theme across multi threads so I’m going to stop

No, what would happen is the big guilds would fight each other, the small guilds would fight each other, and the smallguilds would likely also develop more tactics for when they face the big ones, which might even cause them to kill a large group.

I was running with some guys from GH (Golden Horde) one night in t1, was about 5 of us, and we bumped into a zerg. Not the same as an organised guild group, and it wasn’t a blob, jsut a zerg, but we managed to kill quite a few of them before we decided to run off simply because we were playing smart.

We were 5 and killed a large amount, of course it would be harder against an organised guild, but you would also be more (since you say the average size is 10-15, or somebody did at least), and likely these large guild groups would only be as big as a group as we fought then, on reset.

Genev.2450:

No, what would happen is the big guilds would fight each other, the small guilds would fight each other, and the smallguilds would likely also develop more tactics for when they face the big ones, which might even cause them to kill a large group.

I was running with some guys from GH (Holden Horde) one night in t1, was about 5 of us, and we bumped into a zerg. Not the same as an organised guild group, and it wasn’t a blob, jsut a zerg, but we managed to kill quite a few of them before we decided to run off simply because we were playing smart.

We were 5 and killed a large amount, of course it would be harder against an organised guild, but you would also be more (since you say the average size is 10-15, or somebody did at least), and likely these large guild groups would only be as big as a group as we fought then, on reset.

This is my exact thoughts. If a larger guild came onto GH right now my first port of call wouldn’t be the forums to cry or QQ about it. My first port of call would be to engage them in game to see what they are made of, if we wiped then I would look at what we could do better to improve ourselves and I would continue that until we had improved enough or adapted enough in order to counter them and their tactics.

Saying that some of the “better guilds” coming to opposing servers is destroying the game is actually very naive at best and down right stupid at worst.

Adapt, overcome, develop yourselves, you don’t need to get into huge blobs to do it…

Aneu.1748:

Genev.2450:

No, what would happen is the big guilds would fight each other, the small guilds would fight each other, and the smallguilds would likely also develop more tactics for when they face the big ones, which might even cause them to kill a large group.

I was running with some guys from GH (Holden Horde) one night in t1, was about 5 of us, and we bumped into a zerg. Not the same as an organised guild group, and it wasn’t a blob, jsut a zerg, but we managed to kill quite a few of them before we decided to run off simply because we were playing smart.

We were 5 and killed a large amount, of course it would be harder against an organised guild, but you would also be more (since you say the average size is 10-15, or somebody did at least), and likely these large guild groups would only be as big as a group as we fought then, on reset.

This is my exact thoughts. If a larger guild came onto GH right now my first port of call wouldn’t be the forums to cry or QQ about it. My first port of call would be to engage them in game to see what they are made of, if we wiped then I would look at what we could do better to improve ourselves and I would continue that until we had improved enough or adapted enough in order to counter them and their tactics.

Saying that some of the “better guilds” coming to opposing servers is destroying the game is actually very naive at best and down right stupid at worst.

Adapt, overcome, develop yourselves, you don’t need to get into huge blobs to do it…

No matter how much i develop and adapt myself and the 10 people around me we won’t be able to beat the 50 people that are spawn camping us. Maybe if we had Lyric with us we could:)
Saying that 150 more players to a server is actually a chance to improve for the other server is actually very naive.

Aneu.1748:

Genev.2450:

No, what would happen is the big guilds would fight each other, the small guilds would fight each other, and the smallguilds would likely also develop more tactics for when they face the big ones, which might even cause them to kill a large group.

I was running with some guys from GH (Holden Horde) one night in t1, was about 5 of us, and we bumped into a zerg. Not the same as an organised guild group, and it wasn’t a blob, jsut a zerg, but we managed to kill quite a few of them before we decided to run off simply because we were playing smart.

We were 5 and killed a large amount, of course it would be harder against an organised guild, but you would also be more (since you say the average size is 10-15, or somebody did at least), and likely these large guild groups would only be as big as a group as we fought then, on reset.

This is my exact thoughts. If a larger guild came onto GH right now my first port of call wouldn’t be the forums to cry or QQ about it. My first port of call would be to engage them in game to see what they are made of, if we wiped then I would look at what we could do better to improve ourselves and I would continue that until we had improved enough or adapted enough in order to counter them and their tactics.

Saying that some of the “better guilds” coming to opposing servers is destroying the game is actually very naive at best and down right stupid at worst.

Adapt, overcome, develop yourselves, you don’t need to get into huge blobs to do it…

Fine if it’s one or two guilds. We actually had a really good matchup against RoS when it was just VcY and RiOT. Certainly during Prime Time. 6 or 7 is a different story
though.

And saying that 10-15 can easily adapt, overcome and develop to beat 30-35 organised players is imo very naive at best and downright stupid at worst – as is bringing 6 or 7 new guilds onto a server in order to escape the higher tier blob fest. You’ll now be back there in no time – and what then? Transfer back down? What about the natives you leave completely out of their depth, and what about the next server you try and grace with your presence? Likewise so is the idea that the big guilds will stick to themselves. This is an objective based game – are you saying that the 40 man guild will leave the 15 man group to take Garrison out of fairness to their desires? No chance.

Svarty.8019:

We have witnessed the ladder system even out to some degree since the end of free transfers. Ignoring the problems in the top and bottom tiers, the ladder started to work as intended, but a problem has occurred.

Now that the economy has given rise to the phenomenon of people feeling wealthier, whole-guild transfers are MUCH more viable and as we have seen recently, many guilds are moving to bandwagon servers, surfing them up the tiers and then transfering to another bandwagon server. This is a problem because when guilds move wholesale from one server to another the bias swings way out of whack on both the tier they leave and the tier they join – they then disrupt all the tiers they run through on their way up.

To address the bandwagon problem, Arenanet need to take action. It seems quite clear that financial disincentives are not enough and that Arenanet need to impose a limit to the number of transfers a player may make. I would suggest something like one transfer per six months.

TL;DR

• people are richer,
• transfers are effectively cheaper,
• bandwagoners are riding low-ranking servers up the ladder then repeating the feat,
• financial disincentive doesn’t work as intended,
• there should be a limit to transfers per year.

There is an even simpler solution.

Place Vizunah in an empty tier all on its own – they won’t mind, they’d love an empty tier with just endless doors to beat on and no mean players to chase them back to their keeps and 3000 arrow carts.

Jimmy JimBob.2801:

Aneu.1748:

Genev.2450:

No, what would happen is the big guilds would fight each other, the small guilds would fight each other, and the smallguilds would likely also develop more tactics for when they face the big ones, which might even cause them to kill a large group.

I was running with some guys from GH (Holden Horde) one night in t1, was about 5 of us, and we bumped into a zerg. Not the same as an organised guild group, and it wasn’t a blob, jsut a zerg, but we managed to kill quite a few of them before we decided to run off simply because we were playing smart.

We were 5 and killed a large amount, of course it would be harder against an organised guild, but you would also be more (since you say the average size is 10-15, or somebody did at least), and likely these large guild groups would only be as big as a group as we fought then, on reset.

This is my exact thoughts. If a larger guild came onto GH right now my first port of call wouldn’t be the forums to cry or QQ about it. My first port of call would be to engage them in game to see what they are made of, if we wiped then I would look at what we could do better to improve ourselves and I would continue that until we had improved enough or adapted enough in order to counter them and their tactics.

Saying that some of the “better guilds” coming to opposing servers is destroying the game is actually very naive at best and down right stupid at worst.

Adapt, overcome, develop yourselves, you don’t need to get into huge blobs to do it…

Fine if it’s one or two guilds. We actually had a really good matchup against RoS when it was just VcY and RiOT. Certainly during Prime Time. 6 or 7 is a different story
though.

And saying that 10-15 can easily adapt, overcome and develop to beat 30-35 organised players is imo very naive at best and downright stupid at worst – as is bringing 6 or 7 new guilds onto a server in order to escape the higher tier blob fest. You’ll now be back there in no time – and what then? Transfer back down? What about the natives you leave completely out of their depth, and what about the next server you try and grace with your presence? Likewise so is the idea that the big guilds will stick to themselves. This is an objective based game – are you saying that the 40 man guild will leave the 15 man group to take Garrison out of fairness to their desires? No chance.

What is so hard about taking 15 players and fighting 30? We’ve done it and succeeded on many occasion.

All this whine and the effort put into the whine could be better spent on looking at ways to beat your opponent as opposed to creating the whine, if you feel you don’t have enough numbers then ask yourself do you want to grow in order to defeat the opponents you now have or are you going to kitten yourself through stubbornness?

WvW evolves, it grows, gets smaller, tactics change, tactics advance and unless you are willing to take the rough with the smooth then what is your point in playing? Do you think everyone wins all the time? Do you think others havent had to go through the same process to get where they are today? Stop the woe is me attitudes and blaming others and possibly look at what you can do to develop your situation into something that you prefer.

Jimmy JimBob.2801:

And saying that 10-15 can easily adapt, overcome and develop to beat 30-35 organised players is imo very naive at best and downright stupid at worst

Never said it was easy, I’m saying it’s possible though. A group of randoms wouldn’t be able to do it, but an organised guild which is used to working together and is on a voice com?
Yes, doable, with some effort and cooperation within the guild/group.

Jimmy JimBob.2801:

Likewise so is the idea that the big guilds will stick to themselves. This is an objective based game – are you saying that the 40 man guild will leave the 15 man group to take Garrison out of fairness to their desires? No chance.

And no, the 40man (or whatever size…. Seems it gets bigger every time a number is mentioned) wouldn’t leave the 15man group alone, and it shouldn’t do that, I’m saying that larger groups generally have different focus and playstyle than smaller groups, and smaller groups tend to be sneakier (due to their size) when capping things – even in the higher tiers, there’s ninja/stealth-capping, is it strange to imagine it happens here too?

Genev.2450:

Never said it was easy, I’m saying it’s possible though. A group of randoms wouldn’t be able to do it, but an organised guild which is used to working together and is on a voice com?
Yes, doable, with some effort and cooperation within the guild/group.

AFAIC if two organised and well built groups on voice comms come together but one is 15 man and the other is say 30, then the 30 man group should always come out on top.
And say it is doable. It’s certainly not going to happen like that and the 15 man group still has

Genev.2450:

And no, the 40man (or whatever size…. Seems it gets bigger every time a number is mentioned) wouldn’t leave the 15man group alone, and it shouldn’t do that, I’m saying that larger groups generally have different focus and playstyle than smaller groups, and smaller groups tend to be sneakier (due to their size) when capping things – even in the higher tiers, there’s ninja/stealth-capping, is it strange to imagine it happens here too?

But my point is the small groups for you are the large groups down here. Our 15-20 man teams don’t want to resort to doing the sneaky stuff they want to be involved in good 3way fights with even numbers. So coming in here and saying we’d all be better off with 3 or 4 big guilds smacks of arrogance or at best just sheer ignorance of the situation down here.

For example I’m a predominantly PvE, PvX guild. We have 1 wvw night a week where we can bring out 6-8 members. While I only play wvw the rest are mainly casual players so we’re not capable of taking on huge numbers by ourselves, but against RoF and Dzag we were more than capable of moving away from the main group for a while and doing our own thing. This just isn’t possible anymore and we decided to not run one last week and probably won’t this week, or the week after, or the week after that and so on until we’re no longer matched with RoS.

Now you guys can come in here and accuse of us of whining or what not and tell us to work on our tactics to beat you. But the FACTS are that for small guilds like mine, and a random PUG like me it is no longer playable in a tier where our kind belong. So while my posts may come across as whining to you, yours come across as attempts at self justification for your guilds making a mess of this tier for now what looks like at least 3 weeks.

Hmm. out of interest. Why has there been 2 GH threads about this recently? Enemy had a mass influx?

You were happy about KREW joining you recently and didnt make a thread about it breaking WvW. So why now? (yes i know KREW left you a little bit ago)

Corran.4957:

Hmm. out of interest. Why has there been 2 GH threads about this recently? Enemy had a mass influx?

You were happy about KREW joining you recently and didnt make a thread about it breaking WvW. So why now? (yes i know KREW left you a little bit ago)

Because they dont have an easy match up anymore..

Actually, there are 3 threads over it
First one dropped off the page though.

Corran.4957:

Hmm. out of interest. Why has there been 2 GH threads about this recently? Enemy had a mass influx?

You were happy about KREW joining you recently and didnt make a thread about it breaking WvW. So why now? (yes i know KREW left you a little bit ago)

Aye at least 7 big/medium guilds to RoS.

Wrt KREW – We were happy, they were a great bunch of people who integrated nicely. They fought at night and it did imbalance the matchup at that point though, so we dominated in terms of points. However we still had great fights at all other times so the only way it “broke” the matchup was in terms of upgrades going overnight.

However now we’re in a situation where the game is rather unplayable for alot of us 24/7. We’re essentialy fighting a server who belongs in T4/5.

The Hunter.4516:

Because they dont have an easy match up anymore..

I do find this rather ironic coming from the person who transferred to Gunnars while we were winning our match against RoF and Dzag then joined VcY on RoS when we came up against one difficult week.

The majority of GH have seen the server go from T2 – T8 then T8 – T5 and now T5 back to T7. Trust me when I say we’re used to not winning easy matches

tagnut.8621:

Svarty.8019:

Ignoring the problems in the top and bottom tiers,

There is an even simpler solution.

Place Vizunah in an empty tier all on its own – they won’t mind, they’d love an empty tier with just endless doors to beat on and no mean players to chase them back to their keeps and 3000 arrow carts.

I’ll Just highlight the relevant part of my original post above for you. See quote. It appears that you have simply read the title and not the post. I apologise if the title was misleading as I did my best to make it represent the subject of the post.

The amount of QQ from Gunnar’s Hold players is really impressive. Get over it.
You say RoS transfers ruined a balanced tier. Wanna tell me how your 80k lead to the second server was balanced?

-
For example week 14:

19. Gunnar’s Hold – 259 974
20. Dzagonur – 173 565
21. Ring of Fire – 167 861

And week 15:

19. Gunnar’s Hold – 259 944
20. Dzagonur – 163 696
21. Ring of Fire – 179 826

Now we can check at the last week when Ruins of Surmia won over Gunnar’s Hold and made the matchup “unbalanced” as they call it:

19. Gunnar’s Hold – 164 155
20. Ruins of Surmia – 251 198
21. Ring of Fire – 172 727

-

Seems like for the players from Gunnar’s Hold a balanced matchup means winning and Ruins of Surmia destroyed this balance.

The majority of last weeks matchup wasn’t too bad. But then it was just VcY and RiOT in primetime and we could compete. They got alot of points during the day and the night thanks to the ex-Xaoc numbers boost they had over us hence the lead. Then at the end of the week they gained 4 more big guilds. Watch the scores for this week

Jimmy JimBob.2801:

The majority of last weeks matchup wasn’t too bad. But then it was just VcY and RiOT in primetime and we could compete. They got alot of points during the day and the night thanks to the ex-Xaoc numbers boost they had over us hence the lead. Then at the end of the week they gained 4 more big guilds. Watch the scores for this week

There was so much whining during the last week also so do not deny it all. And we got VoTF in the middle of the week. The only guild more we got for this week so far is XxX.
The night capping isn’t only FRS members. There is usually 5 of them, 5-8 from VcY and same amount from RiOT. Usually a couple from VoTF and pugs of course. In total about 20 until 4am gmt +2 and then the numbers drop to 10.
The points of this week come because Gunnar’s Hold population is very unstable. They all get to the battlefield when their server is winning but when there comes hard times, everyone just logs off. Do not put the blame on the guilds on Ruins of Surmia.

[/quote]
I do find this rather ironic coming from the person who transferred to Gunnars while we were winning our match against RoF and Dzag then joined VcY on RoS when we came up against one difficult week.
[/quote]

I joined GH for a week to play with a friend, and then we realised you guys did not want to move up any tiers at all, just wanted to keep winning easy matchups.
So we decided to move away from GH. I never even fought with RoS so get your facts correct please.

Ill say it again for the sake of it, stop crying on the forums. Its doing no good what so ever. RoS will soon be out of your tier, give it a rest and just play the game.

Aneu.1748:

Not going to happen since transfers create money for Arenanet and limiting them to once per six months is effectively cutting off some of that income.

As long as players can buy the gems for gold, Anet stands to make 0 (Zero) monies off this problem.

I think Anet should make Transfers limited to a real cash purchase, I think that would be enough of a barrier to stop the problem. and if players still want to move, then at least it supports the game.

Everyone wins.

Hi everyone,

Please feel free to join this thread where we are having a discussion about this same issue. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Guilds-dropping-down-tiers-for-good-fights/first#post1898373.

Thanks for your understanding.
This thread is closed.