Guild Wars 2

How many trapper thieves must I encounter on a daily basis that you cannot see, and just kill you. I cannot see how you going to bring people back to this game when you have to deal with this kind of gaming. Please deal with this, its clearly an exploit, and killing the game. You’re free to play players have killed this game with hacks, exploits and have no jurisdiction, or don’t care along with 50 gold sellers every day. Fix it please or is this another WvW joke that’s here to stay.

Says something is an exploit doesn’t understand the meaning of the word or that Anet want thief traps to function as they do….. Look up June 23 2015 patch notes they deliberately removed direct damage on thief traps so they do not cause revealed…….

I tried out trapper thief last night after all the rage posts… It’s horrible.

The only people I managed to kill were the ones who wanted to chase, I was able to troll a group really well with heals and stealth (shaman/apoth gear) but I never came close to killing any of them, it was purely a game of cat and mouse.

With a game mechanic like that it’s not hard to figure out what class a hacker is gonna pick.

Caedmon.6798:

With a game mechanic like that it’s not hard to figure out what class a hacker is gonna pick.

Funny enough, one of the most “famous hacker” we had in the game was a Ranger and not a thief. But that’s because he could simply solo capture anything with near no risk.

Frankly, I don’t understand your problem. You can’t kill anybody with this build. Just walk on the trap, cleanse your condis, and move on.

Sorel.4870:

Frankly, I don’t understand your problem. You can’t kill anybody with this build. Just walk on the trap, cleanse your condis, and move on.

But it seems so many ppl enjoy this build and play it.
It is basically a big annoyance once you encounter one and kinda forced to change map…

I tend to stay away from eb so on borderlands I rarely see them at all.

I’m specifically running trapper thief because I’m facing 7 servers vs 2. I’m also switching to character select on down because I am sick of my downed body being defiled by grawl in heat. Don’t like it? Deal with it. Winning servers don’t get crybaby rights.

PaladinVII.1647:

I’m specifically running trapper thief because I’m facing 7 servers vs 2. I’m also switching to character select on down because I am sick of my downed body being defiled by grawl in heat. Don’t like it? Deal with it. Winning servers don’t get crybaby rights.

Grawl in heat, that’s such a beautiful discription.

With the new permanent portable provisioner and as every class should be running enough blinks/clenases to get away from the first burst, trapper thief isnt that much of a problem. As you can get stealth removal traps from the provisioner. 1 is enough to kill a thief or make him stay away from you for whatever duration it has.

sephiroth.4217:

I tried out trapper thief last night after all the rage posts… It’s horrible.

The only people I managed to kill were the ones who wanted to chase, I was able to troll a group really well with heals and stealth (shaman/apoth gear) but I never came close to killing any of them, it was purely a game of cat and mouse.

so because youre bad with it, everyone else is too, i see…

as a necro all my cleanses have cast time and can be interrupted by thief or even completely avoided (staff 4)

i dont understand how people keep defending this build

Yeah just walk away from this build because all you want to do in wvw is to walk away from fights. I simply can not understand people saying this crap defending a build like this but well.

Wuts next, coming to flyhackers topic saying “shut up man just plant a balli to counter them”

yea man walk away from someone with +50% speed in stealth, cripple and immob on traps and chill on elite, dont forget to dodge his invisible burst!

Getting rekt by a thief that isn’t touching you. Congrats people… if you would just walk away into random directions or pop tons of dmg under your kitten if you have then he can’t really get close.

Yes i tried trapper thief long time ago it’s fun for 5 minutes then it’s plain boring because beside pumping some kitten on floor and try giving out conditions you can’t do kitten you follow your enemy like a tool in hide and if he does unpredictable stuff you won’t land much.

ok so thief with 3k armor and 20k hp cant get close to me when i put wells and marks under my feet?
he totally cant dodge it while also pumping more condis on me

so many experts here id really like to see videos of you fighting decent player on that build

Neftex.7594:

ok so thief with 3k armor and 20k hp cant get close to me when i put wells and marks under my feet?
he totally cant dodge it while also pumping more condis on me

so many experts here id really like to see videos of you fighting decent player on that build

How is he pumping more condies? Here’s something I posted a while ago.

The traps apply negligible amounts of condies, again if you die to them that is your fault, nothing op about it.

Needle Trap
Immobilize (3s): Unable to move.
Poison (10s): 335 Damage, -33% Healing Effectiveness
3 Bleeding (10s): 660 Damage

Trip Wire
Crippled (5s): -50% Movement Speed
Knockdown Knockdown: 3s
Number of Targets: 5
Unblockable

Uncatchable trait
Bleeding (4s): 88 Damage
Crippled (5s): -50% Movement Speed
Caltrops Duration: 3s
Interval: 1s
Radius: 90

The confusion is from steal on a 20sec CD and you get vulnerability from traps due to a trait, again negligible amount of damaging condies and most likely your own inability to run a proper WvW build, in any pvp mode condie cleanse is needed

So again if you are dying to about 4-7 stacks of bleeds 1 stack of poison and 5 stacks of confusion and all of those require direct placement and for you to trigger them, then I’m sorry you must not carry a single Condi cleanse and must keep AA or spamming skills…..

idk where you got those numbers but thats obviously without condi dmg gear

build i just made on gw2skills (never played or tested) look at the difference just on the needle trap:
5 vulnerability, 12 seconds
5 might, 10 s
immobilize 3,5 s
1 poison, 3,500 dmg, 15 s
3 bleeding, 5,900 dmg, 12 s

this is one skill… and you wont ever see it coming

trait gives bleeds on dodge so thats the pumping condis while dodging reference

The numbers are the base numbers but it’s the stacks if you can’t clear 3-4 conditions conditions with those low stacks then the issue is you and your build.

The Trait is Uncatchable which was in my above post, it’s 1 stack of bleed per sec with a total of 3 stacks in a 90 radius so not much pumping going there unless you ask inside each of the Aoe circles….

dragonhunter traps.

Just saying.

How many of you complaining are only dealing with 1 Thief though? Those that say walk away? My issue with thieves is never the 1 that can perma stealth, because I rarely see just 1, my issue is the 1 that hides, immobilizes and helps stealth the buddies he always seems to have by his side.

If you had just 1, I could understand the just walk away comments, but if there’s 3, which there usually are, you’re talking, lots of stealth, different damage builds and no way of walking away. And a stealth trap is going to save you in those cases? Ha!

Thieves are smart to run in packs, but a little practicality, they nerf mesmer stealth down so bad, but keep broken builds like this in game and encourage thieves to run in groups to maximize stealth duration and everyone is cool with it because we have a trap…that takes no less than 5 secs to deploy, requires supply, can only be built 1 at a time and isn’t guaranteed to be triggered.

if you are a good player and have enough condi cleanse (2 big ifs) you can stay alive against this build.. but thats it. broken as kitten if you ask me… like seriously.. why would you design this? the only reason i can come up with is to troll everyone who ever complained about stealth by saying “look here, we can make it much worse!”. this is definitely THE lamest build in wvw atm, by a large margin.

Complaining about this build is soooooooooo one year ago.

If this build only becomes powerful in numbers, then maybe the issue is the numbers.

If three thieves jump you, you are probably going to die without some serious intervention. And thieves are good at getting stomps quickly and efficiently. So even with friends you are going to die.

Now, there are plenty of builds with significant condition clear (almost to an OP degree) that could take 3 trapper-perma stealth thieves on 1v3. But its hard to say the build is broken or OP when it only can pose a significant threat if you are outnumbered and focused. I’m sorry, but in WvW playing outnumbered is rule 1 of roaming.

Neftex.7594:

sephiroth.4217:

I tried out trapper thief last night after all the rage posts… It’s horrible.

The only people I managed to kill were the ones who wanted to chase, I was able to troll a group really well with heals and stealth (shaman/apoth gear) but I never came close to killing any of them, it was purely a game of cat and mouse.

so because youre bad with it, everyone else is too, i see…

as a necro all my cleanses have cast time and can be interrupted by thief or even completely avoided (staff 4)

i dont understand how people keep defending this build

Hey sweet heart <3

I never said I was good or bad with the build, I said I tried the build and it was horrible… (I usually play zerkerish)

Just a comparison.

How not be able to kill? Two attacks and my thief went down so easily. I had used shadowstep for condi cleanse and heal in the first attack. There was like 7 different condis; a row.

Our blob was with cata next to bay wall. I did not chase. I just swung the dagger; could not chase because thief was invisible when near us.

Ultimate troll crew is a few of these with a few condi mesmers. I walked towards pang today and got hit in the face by a 4 or 5 member troll crew condi bomb. I barely managed to get it all cleansed and run into tower. And that’s stealthing up and spamming every cleanse, heal, block and regen I had.

They can still get wrecked in an even fight (and did about 2 mins later) but the sustain + ability to disengage and pick their targets is what makes it work.

Good fun eh. Then they pout in pm when you just walk away. I do have a mes though and maybe I’ll run condi just to dish it back a bit. The condi thief build is boring beyond words.

Often felt if our server pairing would just embrace cheese build day it could be fun.

alicatrawz.9567:

dragonhunter traps.

Just saying.

They reveal when triggered.

Just saying.

It’s tricky but I found interrupting/stunning them really helps, once you’ve got them for even 2 seconds they melt instantly. It is hard to do though but not impossible.

sephiroth.4217:

I tried out trapper thief last night after all the rage posts… It’s horrible.

The only people I managed to kill were the ones who wanted to chase, I was able to troll a group really well with heals and stealth (shaman/apoth gear) but I never came close to killing any of them, it was purely a game of cat and mouse.

I say this all the time. If anyone actually dies to this build its because they themselves are either bad, or completely new to the game….besides physical is more fun to play lol

Yes, this build is indeed a joke. I played for about 2 months now and I have never seen this build in wvw except once in EB, never saw one in BL. Once he pops out of stealth even once, I just interrupted him the next time he tries to go back to stealth and he fumbled around doing nothing. I bursted him and he went down real quick. He probably couldn’t do anything because he was out of ini trying to keep up stealth and on d/p which does nothing for a condi build aside from stealth. Literally any other thief build, power or condi, poses more threat than trapper thief.

Yea it is a joke and yea it is a kittenty build to kill but cmon that’s not the point. The point is ….. being INVISIBLE THE ENTIRE FIGHT WHILE DISHING OUT DAMAGE.

No class/build should ever be allowed to do that.

This guy seems to be able to fight trap thieves.

William Bradley Knight.2609:

This guy seems to be able to fight trap thieves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s0AJgsdeZY

yea man that rev is great, too bad it was 1v2, that thief got caught by guards, didnt use shortbow properly and rev has reveal like all other classes (oh wait)

in the end the thief just died for overextending while outnumbered…

Offair.2563:

Yea it is a joke and yea it is a kittenty build to kill but cmon that’s not the point. The point is ….. being INVISIBLE THE ENTIRE FIGHT WHILE DISHING OUT DAMAGE.

No class/build should ever be allowed to do that.

Sorry to break it to you man, but both you and OP seem to be overfrustrated.

1) thief is supposed to be deadly. It’s an assassin. I died many times to them, yer, but what I’m more concerned about is their teleport, not their condi/fast kills.
2) OP, sorry to say but you don’t know how to counter a thief. I play one, I play against all sorts of characters, even condi thieves, I simply know what to do to survive and you obviously do not.

Both of you and everyone else complaining about something that is in absolute order – learn from your mistakes. It is very possible to survive a thief that drops condis on you. An Engi can do it with area reveal. A ranger has Sick’Em. Ele’s, Guards and others have condi cleanse.

What is your problem again?

Wow, lots and lots of Trapper / Stealth thieves out there. More than just roamers as this now appears to be the preferred zerg spec too.

As a thief, you have 15%-25% time spent using stealth abilities which is just a pre-buff or regen/avoid and set up next burst with basically full movement (my build – immobilize/knockdown/stun is sick with the burst/escape or alternative), and leaves 75%-85% time to run around @ max movement speed/stealth regen and do whatever you want in invisibility including hitting people without reveal via Black Powder (Heartseeker or Bounding Leap) + trap damage/CC + steal/stealth whenever you choose (let alone siege disable and stealth stomp/rez); don’t forget basically unlimited time to wait out opponents too.

Anti-stealth traps @ 10 supply/piece + 4s cast time + small area is laughable. 6s revealed abilities only comes into play if you overextend/get run over by a zerg and don’t have other escape options up. It’s crazy how imbalanced this build is right now.

“Preferred zerg spec”

LOL.

Inoki.6048:

Offair.2563:

Yea it is a joke and yea it is a kittenty build to kill but cmon that’s not the point. The point is ….. being INVISIBLE THE ENTIRE FIGHT WHILE DISHING OUT DAMAGE.

No class/build should ever be allowed to do that.

Sorry to break it to you man, but both you and OP seem to be overfrustrated.

1) thief is supposed to be deadly. It’s an assassin. I died many times to them, yer, but what I’m more concerned about is their teleport, not their condi/fast kills.
2) OP, sorry to say but you don’t know how to counter a thief. I play one, I play against all sorts of characters, even condi thieves, I simply know what to do to survive and you obviously do not.

Both of you and everyone else complaining about something that is in absolute order – learn from your mistakes. It is very possible to survive a thief that drops condis on you. An Engi can do it with area reveal. A ranger has Sick’Em. Ele’s, Guards and others have condi cleanse.

What is your problem again?

My problem is people like you not getting the point. No class should be able to do damage while staying in stealth, is that SO hard to understand?? I know how to counter em and will remain doing that, thats not the problem.

Lets go back to people hacking under maps killing you while being invisible, maybe you get the point then.

Offair.2563:

Inoki.6048:

Offair.2563:

Yea it is a joke and yea it is a kittenty build to kill but cmon that’s not the point. The point is ….. being INVISIBLE THE ENTIRE FIGHT WHILE DISHING OUT DAMAGE.

No class/build should ever be allowed to do that.

Sorry to break it to you man, but both you and OP seem to be overfrustrated.

1) thief is supposed to be deadly. It’s an assassin. I died many times to them, yer, but what I’m more concerned about is their teleport, not their condi/fast kills.
2) OP, sorry to say but you don’t know how to counter a thief. I play one, I play against all sorts of characters, even condi thieves, I simply know what to do to survive and you obviously do not.

Both of you and everyone else complaining about something that is in absolute order – learn from your mistakes. It is very possible to survive a thief that drops condis on you. An Engi can do it with area reveal. A ranger has Sick’Em. Ele’s, Guards and others have condi cleanse.

What is your problem again?

My problem is people like you not getting the point. No class should be able to do damage while staying in stealth, is that SO hard to understand?? I know how to counter em and will remain doing that, thats not the problem.

Lets go back to people hacking under maps killing you while being invisible, maybe you get the point then.

So an Engie can’t stack burns then use stealth Gyro then, or a mes can’t shatter bomb and abuse stealth while waiting on CD…

Other classes can do what you’re asking thief not to do. Other classes can do it better too.

If you know how to counter them, you wouldn’t be roid raging on the forum about it.

I thought you get revealed when you hit, and have to go back into stealth. Most times i’m fighting thieves… it goes like this …

1. thief surprises me 9/10 times because he was in stealth and I had no idea he was there
2. First attack generally blown (if equipped) is the one that turns ya to stone, whats that basilisk venom or something like that? Anyway … pecks a bit and takes like 2-3k while under venom
3. Next attack heavy backstab usually drops targets to like 40% (my characters have high vit pools so I don’t know – I guess maybe they hit for like 8-10k)
4. By now I’m free to counter, so I generally pop a CC, but often a thief can go back into stealth
5. waiting, waiting … always moving my back position
6. Thief re-engages with another burst, does some dodges and if he cannot take me out right there … likely re-enters stealth

Point is … I don’t think I’ve ever not seen the thief attacking me. I don’t wander on the map and randomly notice somethings hitting me … and not see what it is. They get like one free shot, then they use there skills to gain advantages during the fight.

Thieves die just like the rest… and I think are pretty susceptible due to lower health pools.

The only issue I really have is the class, is a party of them can pretty much wipe any other party of 1 same profession in fairly short order. But again I think its what they are designed to do.

Hexinx.1872:

I thought you get revealed when you hit, and have to go back into stealth. Most times i’m fighting thieves… it goes like this …

1. thief surprises me 9/10 times because he was in stealth and I had no idea he was there
2. First attack generally blown (if equipped) is the one that turns ya to stone, whats that basilisk venom or something like that? Anyway … pecks a bit and takes like 2-3k while under venom
3. Next attack heavy backstab usually drops targets to like 40% (my characters have high vit pools so I don’t know – I guess maybe they hit for like 8-10k)
4. By now I’m free to counter, so I generally pop a CC, but often a thief can go back into stealth
5. waiting, waiting … always moving my back position
6. Thief re-engages with another burst, does some dodges and if he cannot take me out right there … likely re-enters stealth

Point is … I don’t think I’ve ever not seen the thief attacking me. I don’t wander on the map and randomly notice somethings hitting me … and not see what it is. They get like one free shot, then they use there skills to gain advantages during the fight.

Thieves die just like the rest… and I think are pretty susceptible due to lower health pools.

The only issue I really have is the class, is a party of them can pretty much wipe any other party of 1 same profession in fairly short order. But again I think its what they are designed to do.

Applying Conditions does not reveal the thief if the applied attack does not have a direct damage attack component.

If you even see the thief, the thief usually made an error (or was CC’d) which broke the cadence of stealth timing. It’s also possible that lag played a factor on thief timing (server/zerg movement makes things wonky) – just like any other class.

The hardest part of this build is precise placement of dodge and traps (so the target runs into them) while managing stealth abilities interwoven within. You can’t simply blow all your stealth abilities and stay in perma stealth and expect to kill anything – you need to hit/backup and let condi damage tick/use a stealth ability/go back and use another, etc. It plays a lot like a PU mesmer with your target having very little means to attack the you for long. Your defense in stealth is unparalleled (you gain health and remove condis non-stop) – well timed Revealed/CC/power cleave kills you. There are specific classes that are far easier than others to target – F Eles since every one of them runs Diamond Skin and multi-condition cleanse.

saerni.2584:

“Preferred zerg spec”

LOL.

Zerg standpoint:

Have you run this? Perma stealth allows you to go to the back line and take down anyone that runs and is at slightly lower health. The “damage” isn’t bursty but it does do a fair amount of DPS on a target when several abilities on cooldown (yeah, you are picking off the soft targets). It’s almost guaranteed if the target is hurt and on back/sidelines that there heal and condi cleanse is on cooldown.

It’s ideal against PUG zergs where group condi cleanse isn’t a focus. Coordinated zergs that stack well (or are mostly melee train) it doesn’t work nearly as well.

Perma stealth is great for Rezzing teammates (more stealth to you while rezzing too). Players that go down in mass AoE, are dead … no point in trying to rez them. You don’t have a reflect shield/immunity rez.

No enemy knows you are there unless a Revealed ability happens – which is very rare unless mad arrow cart fire which you shouldn’t be standing in anyways (if you do get revealed, you either die (but you are pretty tanky) or beat feet until the 6s is over).

Why the build sucks – you don’t get credit at keep/sentry/camp points unless you are out of stealth when the point is captured most times – . But that being said, it’s a great way to lure people onto that “uncontested” point. You can’t run siege because you need to be in stealth and even building siege also puts you in some danger since you are standing in one spot for too long.

I think the point is this is bad for the game. Not that it has counters or that it’s not an efficient build or that proficient players with sufficient condi clear can deal with it. That it simply exists is the problem, you want to encourage new players to try WvW.

You get new players coming out to WvW and running into a duo of 2 thieves with this spec. Do you think that player wants to return to WvW? He just ran around getting a bucket load of condis on him from some players he never saw. Then fell over dead.

This is the important part, in a game that encourages “active combat”. Where’s the play/counterplay in a fight where you see neither of your 2 opponents the whole fight and eventually fall over from condi spam? How is this encouraging new players to try WvW?

In a fight with 2 ppl that are visible at least a part of the time, even the newbiest WvW player can ‘play his hand’ so to speak and try to land his skills. He gets to engage in the combat, and interact with his adversaries.

Chorazin.4107:

I think the point is this is bad for the game. Not that it has counters or that it’s not an efficient build or that proficient players with sufficient condi clear can deal with it. That it simply exists is the problem, you want to encourage new players to try WvW.

You get new players coming out to WvW and running into a duo of 2 thieves with this spec. Do you think that player wants to return to WvW? He just ran around getting a bucket load of condis on him from some players he never saw. Then fell over dead.

This is the important part, in a game that encourages “active combat”. Where’s the play/counterplay in a fight where you see neither of your 2 opponents the whole fight and eventually fall over from condi spam? How is this encouraging new players to try WvW?

In a fight with 2 ppl that are visible at least a part of the time, even the newbiest WvW player can ‘play his hand’ so to speak and try to land his skills. He gets to engage in the combat, and interact with his adversaries.

Well said man. I remember first coming into wvw 4 years ago. I use to get nuked by thief’s and get frustrated till I learned to roam because of patient friends I had back then that played.

With today’s crazy HoT builds, I couldn’t imagine being a pve player and coming into wvw as fresh meat. I imagine it would just frustrate new players and they’d just go back to pve land.

sephiroth.4217:

Offair.2563:

Inoki.6048:

Offair.2563:

Yea it is a joke and yea it is a kittenty build to kill but cmon that’s not the point. The point is ….. being INVISIBLE THE ENTIRE FIGHT WHILE DISHING OUT DAMAGE.

No class/build should ever be allowed to do that.

Sorry to break it to you man, but both you and OP seem to be overfrustrated.

1) thief is supposed to be deadly. It’s an assassin. I died many times to them, yer, but what I’m more concerned about is their teleport, not their condi/fast kills.
2) OP, sorry to say but you don’t know how to counter a thief. I play one, I play against all sorts of characters, even condi thieves, I simply know what to do to survive and you obviously do not.

Both of you and everyone else complaining about something that is in absolute order – learn from your mistakes. It is very possible to survive a thief that drops condis on you. An Engi can do it with area reveal. A ranger has Sick’Em. Ele’s, Guards and others have condi cleanse.

What is your problem again?

My problem is people like you not getting the point. No class should be able to do damage while staying in stealth, is that SO hard to understand?? I know how to counter em and will remain doing that, thats not the problem.

Lets go back to people hacking under maps killing you while being invisible, maybe you get the point then.

So an Engie can’t stack burns then use stealth Gyro then, or a mes can’t shatter bomb and abuse stealth while waiting on CD…

Other classes can do what you’re asking thief not to do. Other classes can do it better too.

If you know how to counter them, you wouldn’t be roid raging on the forum about it.

“So an Engie can’t stack burns THEN use stealth Gyro” -

You already said it yourself, to stack the burns he has to be visible THEN use a stealth gyro. Unlike ghost teef who can STAY in stealth while throwing out condition damage.

Edit: Read up on what Chorazin said. And do some comprehensive reading please.

comparing to trapper dragon hunter both trapper ranger and thief are joke.

I’d like it removed from the game. I main Thief and I NEVER die to this build because you simply run away from it, there’s no point fighting it. Is it annoying as kitten? Yes. Is it boring both to play and play against? Yes. Is it OP? No, it’s just a dumb mechanic and I do think that based on principle no proffession should be able to kill someone without ever revealing themselves. So in that sense, I understand the OP’s frustration.
Only time I see that you can’t avoid them so much is if you’re already fighting someone else and then the Ghost thief comes to assist in killing you. You just get a bunch of random condis on you and before you know it you’re dead and then you realise…. “Oh. Ghost Thief.”

At the end of the day though, if everyone avoids them (most people do) then they get bored eventually because they cant fight anyone.

Whelp I decided to try out trapper thief build for the 1st time ever despite being terrible at thief yet I will agree it is very annoying; ridiculous (for the enemy) having been stealthed literally 100% up-time all the while placing damaging condi traps.

I was able to dance around in enemy blobs for at least a good 1-2 mins vomiting my aids around the place being a nuisance until they finally decided to use AoE reveals. Same goes for roaming, 100% stealth up-time picking off other roamers, zerglings trying to catch up to their team and even NPCs/yaks without ever breaking stealth on the condition that nothing was in my Blackpowder to ruin my BP + HS combo.

What I soon found, or more-so what my enemies finally figured out is a possible counter to trapper thieves and really anything that has high stealth up-time:

• AoE reveals (Herald, Scrapper to name a couple)
• Stealth Trap (costs 10 supply)
• Bombing/standing in my BP to ruin my combo and break the stealth
• Heavy condition cleanses or being with allies who can clear condi’s
• Being stealthed yourself (Scrapper, Thief, Mesmer etc)
• Rare chance that certain traits/condi’s proc e.g; Taunt for rev/herald or Mirror of Anguish for Mesmer whilst I’m low on stealth/initiative

Most of that advice is fairly known already but I thought it might help those who are still struggling against such a cheese build.

Trapper thief is probably only going to kill you if you let the thief mess with you in the first place (chasing after him, trying to fight him, always going in alone etc) or you don’t have condi cleanses. Basic stuff.

Now the debatable bit about trapper thief/trapper runes in general – is it OP?

This is something I don’t think I can outright answer.

For what it does… the build’s damage is weak; preys on those who are in essence, silly enough to fall for their traps plus after a good 40 minutes that thief is going to have one aching hand/fingers having to go through the BP + HS combo near consantly just for the 100% stealth up-time and they’ll probably grow tired/bored like I did after a while.

Let’s not forget that their main source of damage is from one trap in particular (Needle Trap; double Needle Trap if traited for trap placement on Heal) and traited dodge-caltrops if they’re really determined to stay in stealth 100% of the time by not using any weapon attacks like I did for the sake of attempting to stay alive as long as possible. Other than that I felt like I could only tickle some people (Berserker/Warrior passive heals in particular).

Once your ‘bomb’ is dropped you’re basically forced to wiggle around in stealth until your traps are off CD or pray that Improvisation trait procs for Traps after you Steal.

TLDR: It’s not fun fighting against something invisible or is being a total nuisance due to a set of runes. Shave the runes e.g; only applies ONE SECOND of stealth instead of two?

I wouldn’t like to outright butcher the build for those who genuinely enjoy such an aids build but whatever.

Again Trapper runes have little to do with this build. 3 seconds of stealth on a 24 second coolddown is not permastealth. A thief can get more stealth off a use of HIS over a use of needle trap. That does not mean HIS an issue.

again, this build is op af
i actually decided to play it to make more people complain after you all told me its “balanced”

1. its not easy to run away from, if people start running i just swap to shortbow and chase easily, dont even care about stealth at that point

2. reveals, yea i get revealed from time to time, but that doesnt mean i die, again if im getting low i just swap shortbow and get away, stealth again after reveal is gone

3. yes some builds have enough condi cleanse, still doesnt mean they can do anything to me

if you die using this build, you must do some terrible mistakes
on the other hand theres plenty of people you can easily kill without them being able to fight back at all

You pick the fights you want to do. That’s what makes it OP to have perma stealth. Now you can argue (like someone did above) that all stealth allows this. Trapper Runes are just another enabler. That is true. But Trapper Runes allows a very specific spec to get stronger.

I won’t say that killing rate is super high in solo outside of a bomb condition on mostly unprepared people running from place to place (aka zerg spec and not suited for solo and/or not paying attention).

However, there is nothing preventing you from tagging along another more eligible teammate (or staying in perma stealth for the more common roaming targets) that looks weaker and just screwing up what appears to be a fair fight/easy grab for your opponent. This is the frustrating part if you are roaming against this spec because what looks like a mostly even match up or a simple camp capture never really is anymore.

This spec discourages roaming in the long run.