Guild Wars 2

Not even going to list all the reasons, as the community can for me.

All I am saying is, Treb’s are OP, they need a nerf on several levels to even them out.

Thoughts/Comments/Suggestions?

Trebs are fine.

Dodge once in a while or simply strafe to the left a little

I think they need to nerf gravel on catas first

Trebs yes nerf em please that 5 second launch op and dem cows 1 shotting walls man dat be op should take an hour for a treb to get a level 1 wall down and shouldn’t even damage players ~~~~~~~~~~
In case you were wondering I’m not serious

Trebs are fine. What is needed is for projectile reflecting abilities to work on siege equipment (namely trebs and cats, not ballistae).

Countertreb lessons are in order.

Trebs are supposed to be powerful, so, LOL no.

JJBigs.8456:

Not even going to list all the reasons..

You really should

Those legendary defenders need nerfing too yakn

JJBigs.8456:

Not even going to list all the reasons, as the community can for me.

No you’re gonna have to go ahead and do your own work, given that no one agrees with you.

VOLKON.1290:

Trebs are fine. What is needed is for projectile reflecting abilities to work on siege equipment (namely trebs and cats, not ballistae).

This would be bad. In fact, they need to make it so swirling winds does not stop trebs and catas.

I’m not even going ever use a focus on my Ele so when someone says, “Focus 4, Focus 4”, I can say sorry, I don’t have one.

I agree they should remove the swirling winds absorbing siege shots mechanic. It’s a boring thing, elementalists are being forced to stand at trebs/walls for long periods of time, making sieges drag on longer than they should while forcing a class into a very dull task.

The only way trebs could be nerfed in my opinion is their range, the passive trebbing on EB for example is terrible, every outer tower being in range of Stonemist. It’s not exactly fun gameplay. Other than that I don’t really think trebs need a nerf, and I actually would prefer for the maps to be slightly redesigned to fix the trebbing from one tower/keep to another rather than any direct nerfs to trebs.

I once saw a treb kill a cow. Man, they sure need a nerf.

Trebs are fine IMO. They’re not too powerful, as it can take over 15 minutes for a single treb to take out a reinforced wall. In that amount of time you could have gathered a force and wiped out the treb.

Better list reasons, Because no one else can make them up for you.

Okaishi.8320:

I agree they should remove the swirling winds absorbing siege shots mechanic. It’s a boring thing, elementalists are being forced to stand at trebs/walls for long periods of time, making sieges drag on longer than they should while forcing a class into a very dull task.

The only way trebs could be nerfed in my opinion is their range, the passive trebbing on EB for example is terrible, every outer tower being in range of Stonemist. It’s not exactly fun gameplay. Other than that I don’t really think trebs need a nerf, and I actually would prefer for the maps to be slightly redesigned to fix the trebbing from one tower/keep to another rather than any direct nerfs to trebs.

I think the only thing more boring than blocking trebs is operating trebs and never getting any shots to land because they’re being blocked

I see where you coming from but i actually enjoy trying to coordinate with others to block trebs. It would help if they gave you WXP or something for your efforts.

It’s like scouting – very important but boring and not rewarding. There’s not much you could do to make it less boring, but if it was more rewarding it would provide more incentive for others to join in and help so you’re not always doing it on your own.

Trebuchet does not need a nerf. It does its job and it does it well. Annihilating groups of people.

Trebs should do more damage against walls but have their range reduced enough that you cannot simply treb from one structure to another. It completely trivializes sieges as you could put hard work into taking something, only to have some kitten with nothing better to do, treb it down from a keep where you cant take it out.

JJBigs.8456:

Not even going to list all the reasons, as the community can for me.

Your confidence was misplaced.

Scrambles.2604:

I think the only thing more boring than blocking trebs is operating trebs and never getting any shots to land because they’re being blocked

I see where you coming from but i actually enjoy trying to coordinate with others to block trebs. It would help if they gave you WXP or something for your efforts.

It’s like scouting – very important but boring and not rewarding. There’s not much you could do to make it less boring, but if it was more rewarding it would provide more incentive for others to join in and help so you’re not always doing it on your own.

I think trebbing for long periods of times with little results (shots getting blocked) is as boring as being the one blocking them, which shows it’s a boring mechanic for both sides. There’s a lot of stuff you can coordinate with others that are waaaay more fun than blocking incoming treb shots, and I think it’s better to remove the mechanic than rewarding it, because most people play WvW for fun and not the rewards.

Okaishi.8320:

Scrambles.2604:

I think the only thing more boring than blocking trebs is operating trebs and never getting any shots to land because they’re being blocked

I see where you coming from but i actually enjoy trying to coordinate with others to block trebs. It would help if they gave you WXP or something for your efforts.

It’s like scouting – very important but boring and not rewarding. There’s not much you could do to make it less boring, but if it was more rewarding it would provide more incentive for others to join in and help so you’re not always doing it on your own.

I think trebbing for long periods of times with little results (shots getting blocked) is as boring as being the one blocking them, which shows it’s a boring mechanic for both sides. There’s a lot of stuff you can coordinate with others that are waaaay more fun than blocking incoming treb shots, and I think it’s better to remove the mechanic than rewarding it, because most people play WvW for fun and not the rewards.

I’m not going to argue it isn’t boring. But i’ll compare it to scouting again:

Is scouting completely necessary? No, not at all, the zerg will continue to roll on with or without you. But does scouting make it easier for the entire server? Yes, and it increases your odds of winning.

Same thing can be applied to blocking trebs. However, blocking trebs is like plugging a hole in a dam— someone should be trying to remedy the source of the problem while you apply a bandaid fix…or rather your server should be trying to knock out the trebs so your not blocking forever.

Chocolate chip cookies r op too, pls add them to the nerf list plsssssssssssssss

“Double-click to consume.
Nourishment (30m): +50 healing
+40 precision
+10 Experience from kills. "
D:

Chocolate chip cookies should have given +Vitality (fat) and +Endurance Regen (sugar).

Scrambles.2604:

I’m not going to argue it isn’t boring. But i’ll compare it to scouting again:

Is scouting completely necessary? No, not at all, the zerg will continue to roll on with or without you. But does scouting make it easier for the entire server? Yes, and it increases your odds of winning.

Same thing can be applied to blocking trebs. However, blocking trebs is like plugging a hole in a dam— someone should be trying to remedy the source of the problem while you apply a bandaid fix…or rather your server should be trying to knock out the trebs so your not blocking forever.

Scouting is a part of the game that you can’t just take away though, people will always be able to scout and it’s a fairly important to do so as well. It’s not as fun to do as the other stuff perhaps, but some people like to roam around so it’s not all bad. I agree that scouting should be rewarded, but it might be hard to implement rewards for something like that.

Blocking siege shots with swirling winds is a mechanic that is not neccessarily part of the game, which is why I still think it’s better to remove it.

You’re incorrect that it’s not a part of the game. In fact, it was originally intended that all reflect skills worked as well, but that was seen as overly powerful as the siege would destroy itself far too quickly. So only the skills that block still work. This is intended, and verified by the devs.

Personally, I think we need more defensive siege counters. Just make the reflect skills destroy the incoming siege instead of reflect and and we are set. It’s a good thing you don’t speak for everyone, as some people actually enjoy this element of strategy and would be sad to see it go (myself included).

I don’t mean that it’s not part of the game, or not an intended mechanic. I mean that it’s not neccessary to have such a mechanic in the game.

Right, and on that level as well, I think many of us disagree.

The only nerf that trebs need are a range nerf on the current maps. Either that or we need new maps, where you can’t treb from one structure into another.

It is indeed odd that you can reach a castle while trebbing from a keep.

Other than that, trebs are fine for me.

They should just be turned into big holes in the ground that take 100 supply to fill back up. And ballistas should make a squeaky noise instead of hurting me. Nerf everything and let’s do up some love vs. love to see who’s the bestest care bear ever!

BlackDevil.9268:

I once saw a treb kill a cow. Man, they sure need a nerf.

^^^
We have a winner.

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

Right, and on that level as well, I think many of us disagree.

I don’t see why ‘many of you’ would disagree. Why can’t it be that the person who aims their treb better gets to destroy the enemy siege, rather than the side who has the most elementalists? There’s little strategy involved regarding swirling winds in my opinion, the bigger your zerg the more elementalists you will have. And I was under the impression that most people actually disliked the mechanic, atleast those who I have spoken to about the subject.

Since when did aiming a treb become difficult and require much skill? If it’s long range you have a spotter anyway. No skill vs no skill = fine to me. Maybe it’s a bigger problem in higher tiers, but Trebs are definitely not invalidated in t7/t8 with Swirling Winds.

They need to adjust siege BACK to how it was in the beginning. You SHOULD get 2 shotted by a catapult or cannon. You SHOULD die in a hail of arrows if you stand there. Now, everyone just takes a small hit, heals and keeps going. Defending with siege should be possible not painful.

I agree with this ^. Counter-zerg siege would be awesome.

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

Since when did aiming a treb become difficult and require much skill? If it’s long range you have a spotter anyway. No skill vs no skill = fine to me. Maybe it’s a bigger problem in higher tiers, but Trebs are definitely not invalidated in t7/t8 with Swirling Winds.

Uhm, I see plenty of people miss their treb shots, especially when the enemy siege is placed at hard to reach locations. I don’t see how using swirling winds would involve more skill than firing trebs. While defending our borderlands, I see more golems than I see trebs, and sieges involving trebs have a way lower success rate. Why would you siege a keep for hours with trebs when you can just golem rush the place and take it in 2 minutes? I’m saying this just because it’s another reason why I don’t think we need swirling winds’ interaction with siege shots.

Okaishi.8320:

Uhm, I see plenty of people miss their treb shots, especially when the enemy siege is placed at hard to reach locations. I don’t see how using swirling winds would involve more skill than firing trebs. While defending our borderlands, I see more golems than I see trebs, and sieges involving trebs have a way lower success rate. Why would you siege a keep for hours with trebs when you can just golem rush the place and take it in 2 minutes? I’m saying this just because it’s another reason why I don’t think we need swirling winds’ interaction with siege shots.

Sounds like that’s a meta of your tier then. We use trebs quite often, and successfully in ours. Anecdotal evidence isn’t usually the best to base conclusions on.

That argument is as valid for you as it is for me. My opinion of it being a dull and unneccessary mechanic won’t change either way, so let’s just agree to disagree.

Just wondering though, have you ever been one of those elementalists that had to block siegeshots for long periods of time?

Trebs are fine. They just need to decrease the range imo.

Okaishi.8320:

That argument is as valid for you as it is for me. My viewpoint of it being a dull and unneccessary mechanic won’t change either way, so let’s just agree to disagree.

Just wondering though, have you ever been one of those elementalists that had to block siegeshots for long periods of time?

Yeah, I never do it longer than maybe 10 minutes though. Usually it’s to hold off damage until some help that I know is coming arrives. Doing it yourself with no reinforcements is just a waste of your time. Don’t do it, if it results in a loss of the structure owell, get it back when you have the people to do so. It’s just a game, have fun and don’t make a job.

If people are going to get kitten y that you didn’t remain there, that’s on them.

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

Yeah, I never do it longer than maybe 10 minutes though. Usually it’s to hold off damage until some help that I know is coming arrives. Doing it yourself with no reinforcements is just a waste of your time. Don’t do it, if it results in a loss of the structure owell, get it back when you have the people to do so. It’s just a game, have fun and don’t make a job.

If people are going to get kitten y that you didn’t remain there, that’s on them.

Well, I’ve often been in the situation where my zerg is half of the size of the enemies,’ and taking out the trebs with a rush simply isn’t an option (especially when they are placed in easily defended locations). Taking it out with a counter treb won’t work either, because they have more elementalists with them which means more swirling winds uptime. This resulting often in a few of our elementalists standing on top of the wall blocking as many shots as they can, until that wall finally drops.

I think it’s also a mechanic that rewards the larger zerg, again something that isn’t needed in my opinion.

All I am saying is, Moa Form is OP, it need a nerf on several levels to even it out from the Hazmat suit. Not even going to list all the reasons, as the community can for me.

Okaishi.8320:

Well, I’ve often been in the situation where my zerg is half of the size of the enemies,’ and taking out the trebs with a rush simply isn’t an option (especially when they are placed in easily defended locations). Taking it out with a counter treb won’t work either, because they have more elementalists with them which means more swirling winds uptime. This resulting often in a few of our elementalists standing on top of the wall blocking as many shots as they can, until that wall finally drops.

I think it’s also a mechanic that rewards the larger zerg, again something that isn’t needed in my opinion.

Three elementalists with a focus can keep SW up enough to negate 2-3 trebs. That kind of invalidates larger zerg at that point, doesn’t it? Unless you need 100% uptime, then you need 5. But really, 5 isn’t much from a zerg.

This actually rewards smaller groups with specific compositions, I don’t mind that. The same thing is also rewarded with a bunch of golems and mesmers and I don’t want that removed from the game.

Azaruil.3406:

Trebs should do more damage against walls but have their range reduced enough that you cannot simply treb from one structure to another. It completely trivializes sieges as you could put hard work into taking something, only to have some kitten with nothing better to do, treb it down from a keep where you cant take it out.

So they should be catapults?

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

Okaishi.8320:

Well, I’ve often been in the situation where my zerg is half of the size of the enemies,’ and taking out the trebs with a rush simply isn’t an option (especially when they are placed in easily defended locations). Taking it out with a counter treb won’t work either, because they have more elementalists with them which means more swirling winds uptime. This resulting often in a few of our elementalists standing on top of the wall blocking as many shots as they can, until that wall finally drops.

I think it’s also a mechanic that rewards the larger zerg, again something that isn’t needed in my opinion.

Three elementalists with a focus can keep SW up enough to negate 2-3 trebs. That kind of invalidates larger zerg at that point, doesn’t it? Unless you need 100% uptime, then you need 5. But really, 5 isn’t much from a zerg.

This actually rewards smaller groups with specific compositions, I don’t mind that. The same thing is also rewarded with a bunch of golems and mesmers and I don’t want that removed from the game.

also, i’m pretty sure guardians can block trebs. Actually, guardians can’t block trebs, i just see them throw bubbles up all the time for no reason, lol. But thieves can, depending on the angle.

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

Three elementalists with a focus can keep SW up enough to negate 2-3 trebs. That kind of invalidates larger zerg at that point, doesn’t it? Unless you need 100% uptime, then you need 5. But really, 5 isn’t much from a zerg.

This actually rewards smaller groups with specific compositions, I don’t mind that. The same thing is also rewarded with a bunch of golems and mesmers and I don’t want that removed from the game.

I guess we really have opposite opinions, haha. I think timewarp shouldn’t work on golems, because they melt gates insanely fast. What part of flipping a t3 keep with a bunch of golems within minutes is considered a ‘siege.’? But yeah, I’ll stop it before going too far offtopic.

I can’t say I’ve seen groups having a composition specifically for blocking trebshots. A large zerg will easily have 5 elementalists, providing them with 100% swirling winds uptime. And if the defenders have the same, it makes the ranged siege completely invalid in that particular battle. Sorry, but I still can’t see the benefits of having the mechanic in the game.

Johje Holan.4607:

VOLKON.1290:

Trebs are fine. What is needed is for projectile reflecting abilities to work on siege equipment (namely trebs and cats, not ballistae).

This would be bad. In fact, they need to make it so swirling winds does not stop trebs and catas.

I’m not even going ever use a focus on my Ele so when someone says, “Focus 4, Focus 4”, I can say sorry, I don’t have one.

That’s why when I’m on WvW, I always make sure to carry at least 4 level 1 blue Mighty Focus (available for pennies on the TP) — I’ve had a couple eles pull this excuse on me and immediately receive a focus in the mail all while calling out enemy mortar/treb impact times on mumble.

Azaruil.3406:

Trebs should do more damage against walls but have their range reduced enough that you cannot simply treb from one structure to another. It completely trivializes sieges as you could put hard work into taking something, only to have some kitten with nothing better to do, treb it down from a keep where you cant take it out.

I agree they should do a little more damage (not a lot though) to walls but as far as distance I disagree. The maps were designed around the treb range. I can’t think of a place on the BL’s where you can put a treb that can’t be countered by another piece of siege from outside the structure. If you are referring to EBG (my experience is lacking here) that is a possibly true.

I can see that some people here don’t understand that the wvw map were designed for siege to be used. SM should be able to treb the towers around it that’s y it’s so important to hold and attack. If anything trebs need a buff. People put a great deal of time and effort into finding good treb spots y should they be punished for trying to figure out a simpler way to attack or deffend. Well placed trebs are also by far the most effective way to deal with golem rushes

Scrambles.2604:

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

Okaishi.8320:

Well, I’ve often been in the situation where my zerg is half of the size of the enemies,’ and taking out the trebs with a rush simply isn’t an option (especially when they are placed in easily defended locations). Taking it out with a counter treb won’t work either, because they have more elementalists with them which means more swirling winds uptime. This resulting often in a few of our elementalists standing on top of the wall blocking as many shots as they can, until that wall finally drops.

I think it’s also a mechanic that rewards the larger zerg, again something that isn’t needed in my opinion.

Three elementalists with a focus can keep SW up enough to negate 2-3 trebs. That kind of invalidates larger zerg at that point, doesn’t it? Unless you need 100% uptime, then you need 5. But really, 5 isn’t much from a zerg.

This actually rewards smaller groups with specific compositions, I don’t mind that. The same thing is also rewarded with a bunch of golems and mesmers and I don’t want that removed from the game.

also, i’m pretty sure guardians can block trebs. Actually, guardians can’t block trebs, i just see them throw bubbles up all the time for no reason, lol. But thieves can, depending on the angle.

No sanc can block treb shots jus hard
And smoke screen from engis and theives

SilencingMachine.5049:

They need to adjust siege BACK to how it was in the beginning. You SHOULD get 2 shotted by a catapult or cannon. You SHOULD die in a hail of arrows if you stand there. Now, everyone just takes a small hit, heals and keeps going. Defending with siege should be possible not painful.

Yes. I remember when arrow carts used to hurt. Now they don’t do much more than blow the dust off you.