Guild Wars 2

Why the hell would you give such outstanding bonus coming from orbs to the dominating servers ? I just don’t get it…. You are only digging the gap between the first and the 2 other sides….
A server with 3 orbs is just totally oped…People don’t even want to try fighting back when they see that, they just leave the WvW.

A server with three orbs is stronger yes, but that server still has the potential to be outnumbered 2 to 1 if the other two servers actually come out and fight. Something is wrong is two entire servers would rather give up than fight one server that’s obviously beating them both down. What happened to a common foe?
Just need the will to get out there and retake what’s yours.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Giving force multipliers to the team that’s already winning and already has more players is well known as possibly the worst thing you can even do in game design. It never works out, instead just making horribly one sided matches all the time.

I think you guys are giving the orb buff more power than it’s due. Seems like there’s a bigger psychological rather than technical advantage of having 3 orbs on your side.

If a team has 3 orbs and is ahead on points, go 2v1 against the winning team. If you’re telling me that 1 server + orb > 2 servers in terms of strength, then I don’t think you even deserve to win in the first place, with or without orb.

@BAEK and Dinas. Yes, in an ideal world the two losing servers would unite to defeat the stronger server. In an ideal world communism would work and there would be no rich and poor. We don’t live in an ideal world.

Bottom line is it’s not working and needs to be changed.

yeah of course, we are going to make some /emote to the other realm and making them understand we don’t fight each other and attack the ennemy together, taking notes.

Oh yeah, maybe it’s a common sense for you guys and for the dev but one thing they didn’t take into account is 80% of the players in an mmo don’t give a kitten about this so called logic. They see an ennemy, they rush him and follow him till death tear them apart and they are happy with it.

On the other sides, the 20% who figured out they need to team up to beat the winning realm, also understood they won’t succeed no matter what you can say or argue about, period.

And we end up with one realm having an overwhelming advantages (mostly due to their numbers) and to reward them, Anet decideds to give them a permanent bufff with the 3 orbs which is totally oped. Good job and Good luck for trying to get ppl attracted by this system.

merrydamn.9423:

yeah of course, we are going to make some /emote to the other realm and making them understand we don’t fight each other and attack the ennemy together, taking notes.

Oh yeah, maybe it’s a common sense for you guys and for the dev but one thing they didn’t take into account is 80% of the players in an mmo don’t give a kitten about this so called logic. They see an ennemy, they rush him and follow him till death tear them apart and they are happy with it.

On the other sides, the 20% who figured out they need to team up to beat the winning realm, also understood they won’t succeed no matter what you can say or argue about, period.

And we end up with one realm having an overwhelming advantages (mostly due to their numbers) and to reward them, Anet decideds to give them a permanent bufff with the 3 orbs which is totally oped. Good job and Good luck for trying to get ppl attracted by this system.

well, can you make it such that they don’t give a combat advantage while still being a worthwhile objective in a even matchup?

yes you definitely can, the thing is the game is 2month old, those isssues have been reported since day one and we haven’t yet seen the slightest tiny comment from dev about it which would give us any kind of hope.
no offense taken there, but Anet needs definitely to work out the communication with its core basis player.

BAEK.8561:

I think you guys are giving the orb buff more power than it’s due. Seems like there’s a bigger psychological rather than technical advantage of having 3 orbs on your side.

If a team has 3 orbs and is ahead on points, go 2v1 against the winning team. If you’re telling me that 1 server + orb > 2 servers in terms of strength, then I don’t think you even deserve to win in the first place, with or without orb.

You forget that in almost every case, the server with 3 orbs is going to have more people than you as well. Meaning “just do 2v1” is not even possible.

Also, a 2v1 would roughly be equal to a 1v1 against a 3x orb server, so you really should say “just 3v1” them, but again, that’s impossible because they already have more players and the orb bonuses.

ChairGraveyard.2967:

BAEK.8561:

I think you guys are giving the orb buff more power than it’s due. Seems like there’s a bigger psychological rather than technical advantage of having 3 orbs on your side.

If a team has 3 orbs and is ahead on points, go 2v1 against the winning team. If you’re telling me that 1 server + orb > 2 servers in terms of strength, then I don’t think you even deserve to win in the first place, with or without orb.

You forget that in almost every case, the server with 3 orbs is going to have more people than you as well. Meaning “just do 2v1” is not even possible.

Also, a 2v1 would roughly be equal to a 1v1 against a 3x orb server, so you really should say “just 3v1” them, but again, that’s impossible because they already have more players and the orb bonuses.

So, you’re saying that the server with 3 orbs is still going to win because they have more people? You just stated that a server with more people is going to win. Then this thread is no longer about orbs anymore.

I find it hard to believe that a server with 3 orbs would out-number a combined force of 2 servers. But if they do outnumber, then you probably wouldn’t have had a fighting chance anyway EVEN IF orbs were to offer NO bonus stats. In conclusion, my original point stands corrected: you wouldn’t have won WITH or WITHOUT orb if you’re just straight up outnumbered to a point where you AND the other server can’t compete against the winning server.

merrydamn.9423:

Why the hell would you give such outstanding bonus coming from orbs to the dominating servers ? I just don’t get it…. You are only digging the gap between the first and the 2 other sides….
A server with 3 orbs is just totally oped…People don’t even want to try fighting back when they see that, they just leave the WvW.

What you’re saying is rubbish. I’ve seen my server have all three orbs one day then have none the next. It can be taken if you work together. Most of the time the team with all the orbs also controls the most which means they are spread thin just to defend it all. If you know they are being heavily attacked at one point, hit them hard on the other side of the map. It’s hard to defend it all when you control so much.

Having been on a server with all 3 orbs, and none at all, I’ve noticed a huge difference.

With all 3 orbs, I rarely have any problem fighting even mid sized groups solo.

When fighting against players with the three orb bonus, even 1v1 is quite difficult. I notice quite often that when I would usually get a kill/down my enemy instead escapes with 5-15% hp left that I just can’t quite burn through before their heal/dodge is up again. (I’m talking equal leveled and fairly equal skilled opponents here, I can tell when someone just outplays me or if they are just really unskilled).

This game is quite well balanced as far as defense/dps (except in two areas, but those aren’t relevant to this topic) and the orb bonuses were obviously tacked on as an afterthought to a balanced system.

I don’t blame ANet, they really had no way to play test the game for months with millions of people to get a real idea what was needed, but it’s time to listen to the players now and get rid of the orb bonuses or rework them to bring WvW into better balance.

BAEK.8561:

ChairGraveyard.2967:

BAEK.8561:

I think you guys are giving the orb buff more power than it’s due. Seems like there’s a bigger psychological rather than technical advantage of having 3 orbs on your side.

If a team has 3 orbs and is ahead on points, go 2v1 against the winning team. If you’re telling me that 1 server + orb > 2 servers in terms of strength, then I don’t think you even deserve to win in the first place, with or without orb.

You forget that in almost every case, the server with 3 orbs is going to have more people than you as well. Meaning “just do 2v1” is not even possible.

Also, a 2v1 would roughly be equal to a 1v1 against a 3x orb server, so you really should say “just 3v1” them, but again, that’s impossible because they already have more players and the orb bonuses.

So, you’re saying that the server with 3 orbs is still going to win because they have more people? You just stated that a server with more people is going to win. Then this thread is no longer about orbs anymore.

I find it hard to believe that a server with 3 orbs would out-number a combined force of 2 servers. But if they do outnumber, then you probably wouldn’t have had a fighting chance anyway EVEN IF orbs were to offer NO bonus stats. In conclusion, my original point stands corrected: you wouldn’t have won WITH or WITHOUT orb if you’re just straight up outnumbered to a point where you AND the other server can’t compete against the winning server.

Please try to read. The server with the highest population almost always gets all three orbs, then has both the orb bonus AND more players.

I’m not sure what’s difficult to understand about that.

I don’t see a problem with Orb or the mechanics. It’s all about strategy and teamwork.

The problem is that Anet is not addressing the ‘coding abuses’ fast enough and/or appear to be encouraging them with poor communication.

Sure- each of these tactics can be used by the opposing factions… even hacks; but the majority don’t want to stoop that low. So its unbalanced.

It’s almost reminiscent of SWTOR release… that Beta feel. Anet did 1000% better; but the gw2 community is doing a great job of finding new ways to work the code…

Thus we have perception that Orbs and such are overpowered.

Honestly server transfers are a large part of your issues. Orbs are relatively minor by comparison.

If the losing two servers leave WvW or spend all their time picking on each other then they deserved to lose. Plain and simple. If your server gives up on 1st and decides to either lose badly to drop a tier or fight for second then they deserve to lose. Free server transfers will end eventually, populations will stabilizing, matching will improve greatly, and all servers will float or sink to the area they deserve to be in.

In the mean time keep fighting and fight smart. The more people that are still fighting in WvW for your team with common sense the smarter your server will be and the higher the turnout will be. If you bail you are part of the problem. It’s a morale thing.

In a sense, we are very like the Skritt lol. We get stronger and smarter with numbers.

In theory first place should be getting double teamed in these matchups. I’m thinking the bonuses were meant for 1st place to have some help from 2nd and 3rd double teaming them. However 2nd and 3rd place are rarely double teaming 1st place in these games.

There is no supported in-game mechanic to 2v1 a winning server. Does it happen sometimes? Sure. Is it coordinated? Not at all. Even if two servers outnumber the leading server, it just doesn’t add up to any meaningful victory.

Coordination, numbers, and orbs combined will beat any two servers…

The problem isn’t with the system, it’s with the community. If a side has 3 orbs or most of the map the 2 losing factions should both be focused on the winning faction. This is the beauty of a 3 way fight. In stead both sides usually just give up or attack the easiest target.

The orbs needs to grant more XP/Karma/Item rewards instead of giving direct offensive/defensive buffs.

Outmanned buff is a joke. At the very least give the outmanned World siege weapons more attack and HP to compensate.

Hi.
I’m on the winning server this week.
We have 3 orbs.

We’re currently defending SM from 2 other servers.

Newsflash: ORB BOONS ARE OP!
Give us the “outmanned” boon for having orbs and give the outmanned the Orb boons.
Swap them.
Cus really, dominating 2 servers is no fun. They can’t fight back, it’s no fun at all, just wake up in the morning, pop down to SM and siege the crap out of everything all day.
:|

Give other servers a chance.

i’m quite sure anet had a nice crew of honest balanced players for their closed beta – gw2 has only been open to the general public for a few months – which I’m sure the general public isn’t as friendly and cooperative as a closed beta group. I’m guessing we are doing things that a-net never saw before and needs a minute to figure out the best way to fix them without disrupting the general game mechanics. – the quickest fix would be to have everyone play fair ….good luck with that lol

The orbs are rarely taken at peak times. Rarely.

So when a server has 3 orbs, and then loses them, and calls it rubbish to say the orbs are OP, that server is ignoring the fact that a nightcap happened. That is the only time when a dominating server is brought back down.

Rarely do enough players convince the playerbase to hit the common enemy. Rarely. When it happens, you get an epic fight and it is fun. And rare.

IoJ and SBI unspokenly teamed up against JQ to allow SBI to take a lead in points and win. 2 servers where jointly trebbing the other and not fighting each other to cap. Unlike SM, where you can often have teamwork by accident, only to then have the 2 servers fight it out and allow the third server to clean up the formerly “allied” servers.

It is rare. People do not think or act that way. It’s why we don’t see Robin Hood types stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. Makes sense on paper, but not real human behavior.

It’s a horrible game mechanic that time has proven.

DirgeZombie.7315:

The problem isn’t with the system, it’s with the community. If a side has 3 orbs or most of the map the 2 losing factions should both be focused on the winning faction. This is the beauty of a 3 way fight. In stead both sides usually just give up or attack the easiest target.

Yep, it’s the communities fault.

Now we only need to teach 500k to 1 million players to all think and play alike. Easy.

I’ll hold classes starting next Monday.

for those of you who don’t see a problem with the orb bonuses, do me a favor and check this out: http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA

take a look at the scores. then take a look at who has the orbs. you’ll note that where the orbs are distributed evenly, the scores are pretty close. (tier 1, tier 7) in the bulk of the matches, however, you’ll notice that the side with all 3 orbs has a superior point lead (tier 2, 3, 4, 5, 6). ok, that may have just been this week. so, let’s look back at previous weeks. guess what? it’s the same exact trend. the side with 3 orbs wins 95% of the time, and by a landslide. this is not a fluke. it is a continued, proven, pattern.

opinions on the matter don’t factor in at this point.

as has been stated countless times, the orbs are the reason for unbalanced matches. not bugs. not transfers (in general). not even exploits/hacking. solely the orbs. switching the orb bonus with the outmanned bonus would alleviate this issue, but not fix it entirely. the incentive to actually go after the orbs would be lowers quite a bit by that. instead, perhaps a 1%, 2%, 3% bonus to a server’s incoming score would keep them important, but not make them the determining factor in nearly every match.

I still can’t see why the alters have to be inside keeps, can’t the orb be a more dynamic moving piece and still retain its current buffs. have alters near your spawn area’s to make them a difficult objective but not one that isn’t possible by a small group.

Phantom.8130:

for those of you who don’t see a problem with the orb bonuses, do me a favor and check this out: http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA

take a look at the scores. then take a look at who has the orbs. you’ll note that where the orbs are distributed evenly, the scores are pretty close. (tier 1, tier 7) in the bulk of the matches, however, you’ll notice that the side with all 3 orbs has a superior point lead (tier 2, 3, 4, 5, 6). ok, that may have just been this week. so, let’s look back at previous weeks. guess what? it’s the same exact trend. the side with 3 orbs wins 95% of the time, and by a landslide. this is not a fluke. it is a continued, proven, pattern.

opinions on the matter don’t factor in at this point.

So much this. There are a ton of people ignoring reality in favor of their irrelevant opinions about this, when it’s trivially easy to see the trend and the massive imbalance, which historical WvW data completely and 100% backs up.

It’s not a fluke, it’s not a one time thing, it’s not just this week, or just last week or any such nonsense. As you said, 3x orbs = that server wins by a massive point lead.

They might as well reset the match as soon as one server gets all three orbs, because the outcome is a forgone conclusion at that point.

ChairGraveyard.2967:

Phantom.8130:

for those of you who don’t see a problem with the orb bonuses, do me a favor and check this out: http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA

take a look at the scores. then take a look at who has the orbs. you’ll note that where the orbs are distributed evenly, the scores are pretty close. (tier 1, tier 7) in the bulk of the matches, however, you’ll notice that the side with all 3 orbs has a superior point lead (tier 2, 3, 4, 5, 6). ok, that may have just been this week. so, let’s look back at previous weeks. guess what? it’s the same exact trend. the side with 3 orbs wins 95% of the time, and by a landslide. this is not a fluke. it is a continued, proven, pattern.

opinions on the matter don’t factor in at this point.

So much this. There are a ton of people ignoring reality in favor of their irrelevant opinions about this, when it’s trivially easy to see the trend and the massive imbalance, which historical WvW data completely and 100% backs up.

It’s not a fluke, it’s not a one time thing, it’s not just this week, or just last week or any such nonsense. As you said, 3x orbs = that server wins by a massive point lead.

They might as well reset the match as soon as one server gets all three orbs, because the outcome is a forgone conclusion at that point.

More like massive imbalance = 3 orbs = continued massive imbalance. What stops that correlation from being true? If a server gets 3 orbs and can actually hold them consistently then the orbs were never the problem to start with.