Guild Wars 2

This turtling is a bad bad game design for a game thats advertised as a “PvP” game.

Get rid of AOE limit, problem solved,

At present the servers can just about calculate everyone and their abilities on the field in a largely populated battle.

Adding one extra tick per person per ability per second doesnt sound like the best solution in my opinion… but im definately for a solution to this “tactic”.

Doesn’t siege ignore the 5 person AoE limit?

So, we need to start multiboxing to counter turtling?

Kidding aside, hell yes, remove the kitten aoe cap. Skill > numbers please!

What is this? The 20th topic on the subject, with the same 10 people from pug or no guilds, with no coordination bringing the qq to the forums.

Here is a video I made as a tribute to the turtle:

Or how about this; just play better?

If you or your guild is getting farmed by the turtle tactic you are doing it wrong..

How about you stop posting your video that does nothing to the conversation. I’m part of one of the largest if not the largest guild on my server… who is currently (until Friday) ranked #1 in the EU (not for long though :p)

All the major zergs do is huddle up to survive and it sucks balls but works. I’m not gonna lie, It does work… and before we get the same suggestions… arrow carts do not hit more than 5 people. Everything has an AOE cap besides select abilities.

I’m fed up with people throwing hap hazard suggestions or putting zero into the conversation by throwing a L2P phrase out.

PinCushion.7390:

Doesn’t siege ignore the 5 person AoE limit?

Yes. As well as quite a few weapon and utility skills.

KILL THE AoE LIMIT SIMPLES

ya but you got to look at this as a double edged sword… if you turned off the aoe cap and you were able to aoe everyone in the ball and they all had retaliation. You’d be in the downed state faster then you knew what happened.

No they dont, arrow carts have three abilities which lay on the ground for quite a bit. They also have a cyclical damage style that triggers across more than 5 people but no more than 5 people per tick.

So the bleeding arrows can hit 5+ people over their duration but no more than 5 at a time, the numbers come from the bleeding that stacks on more than 5 people. In the same sense that a location AOE can hit more than 5 people if a zerg of 30 run through it. It just relies on the fact that the damage is delt over a period and doesn’t count 5 people then stop working.

Kindeller.3072:

How about you stop posting your video that does nothing to the conversation. I’m part of one of the largest if not the largest guild on my server… who is currently (until Friday) ranked #1 in the EU (not for long though :p)

Big doesnt make you good. Learn to counter it, and the numbers should allow you to do so.

Tutleling is simply horrible design and terrible gameplay.

It turns off new players and makes WvW extremley cheesy and boring.

Im actually a solo player but watching zergs do this is ridiculous

Another major reason turtling works, the downed state. If everyone is nearby if anyone does happen to fall, the max number of people are close at hand to bring them back up. This is just as important a factor as the culling and the prohibivitely short (600) range of guardian shouts. There are a multitude of factors for this tactic beyond the obvious (and most important) culling.

Turtling is just another legitimate tactic to utilize, it may take a little time to get used to breaking it’s shell, but when you see one utilize one of your optional counters. You should be able to deal with it accordingly and force a different play style from the teams you are up against.

Counters:

Ballistae in choke points (eg. let doors fall with 3 ballistae behind the door hold door with guardians blocking and just bodies)

Mass hysteria – Fear, Stomp, Kicks, or anything that just causes players to be broken up

Portal bombs – Quite effective and will wipe them fast if you are organized

Anet needs to fix turtling.

If only there were some way we could use this rift/portal-like spell and somehow get inside and deploy another rift/portal-like spell just like it. People will then go through it and eliminate everybody inside.

I shall call it “wormholing”.

how much i would like to trade number capped AE’s vs daoc’s AE dropoff (ae’s do less damage the further away from the center of the cast, doing 100 % damage on target/point blank and 1 % at 99 % of the radius) without limit to the number of targets a AE can hit.

So you get killed be someone who turtles and ofcourse it’s Anet fault… it’s not that difficult to kill a turtle. i really hope Anet won’t do anything stupid i like it the way it is atm.

Moonlite.7536:

ya but you got to look at this as a double edged sword… if you turned off the aoe cap and you were able to aoe everyone in the ball and they all had retaliation. You’d be in the downed state faster then you knew what happened.

Isn’t that the whole point about AoE’s hitting things in a ball as well as another point about AoE skills is the timer, player whom use AoE’s a lot are a lot slower in fact miles slower than some of the melee classes, by the time they’ve done just one skill melee’s have hit you more than 15 times, so equate that against the cap and you see a vast imbalance between the two, also lets not forget that some of the melee skills have a minor AoE range as well.
In my own personal view the AoE cap is ludicrous and should not even of been put into place.
On the basis of WvWvW and PvP if your unlucky enough to be hit by one then isn’t that the same as being hit close up with a wet flannel against being splashed by a bucket of water.
Why players Turtling quite simply the odds of being hit by AoE while bunched up at this present time is greatly reduced as the AoE targeting is random , which is also why they new ploy of surrounding siege with players to stop the siege being hit by AoE.
As for the retaliation part you mentioned that again is just tough luck on the player doing the AoE should so many player have that on.

You know, there’s an easier way to solve this, that will also fix the other engine limitation people keep complaining about. Bring mesmer portals in line with the rest of skills in terms of AoE limitation – portal closes after max 5 people have entered. If mesmer is in a party, only the party members can use it – otherwise it’s just 5 first. Maybe allow unlimited back/forth portalling for the 5 party members or the 5 first, but block others.

Think about it – no more 50 people zerg instantly appearing (or rather, NOT appearing due to culling issues) on top of you. Organized guilds could still use mass mesmer portals effectively by having multiple mesmers (1 per 5 others). So how does this affect turtling? It takes away the mobility. No more porting the turtle on top of your siege weapons. In order to move, they need to step out of their heal spam and even then running in turtle formation needs practice and coordination. Something random puggies could no longer achieve (again leaving turtling as a potential tactic for organized groups).

This reminds me of the smiteball in GW1. Good times that. The reason it died out is people learned to counter it with the tools they already had.

Maybe the problem isnt that AoE dmg is capped, but that support-stuff often isnt? I cant hit 5ppl with my aoe, but i can hit an infinite amount of people with my AoE heals.
So stacking up not only leads to spreading the aoe dmg around to mean each player gets hit for very little damage. But it compounds all the aoe heals to make sure every player gets maximum healing.
So its not very hard to outheal the damage in a turtle.

And ofcourse to many walls and domes. Sanctuary, Line of Warding, Feedback etcetcetc All this defensive stuff is incredibly powerful and protects an infinite number of players. Yet again, attacks made against these players is not infinite.

Its a simply case of programming the game to favor defense over offense.

Curious (forgive my ignorance) My googlefu is weak. When you all talk about turtling is that the equivalent when a commander says Stack on me?

Kindeller.3072:

All the major zergs do is huddle up to survive and it sucks balls but works. I’m not gonna lie, It does work…

It works you say? like how exactly? they stand on the same place waiting for you to run in as free badges? Is that working for you.. How about changing your tactics, stay mobile, go guerrilla style, let them stay in their portal while you run around them to flank, dodge, lure them into a trap, use your own portals or cap something fast while they camp the portal..

You are a part of the one of the biggest guild on your server and your server is ranked #1 in EU

Well my server is ranked #16 in EU and im part of a guild that dont rely on/have many numbers and the so called “turtling” tactic never killed us, in fact when we face this tactic with our 15 guys vs 40 we dont even lose one player to it.. I dont know exactly what you do to counter this but you are doing it wrong.. Start working on your tactics mate “ranked #1 in EU” ^^

Boedavildje.4927:

So you get killed be someone who turtles and ofcourse it’s Anet fault… it’s not that difficult to kill a turtle. i really hope Anet won’t do anything stupid i like it the way it is atm.

It is Anets fault because they put the design restrictions in place to make it possible.

So now doesn’t the healing nerf address this issue? What are some servers going to do now that turtleing isn’t so effective? Find a new exploit to win? Or just learn to play?

The philosophy behind the design is to prevent pvp turning into meta game only for 5 invoke elementalists. which must be on ventrilo, and must have a very high rank, and must synchronize their attacks, to win just like gw1 HA. so pvp turn difficult for new players to learn.

Warlord.9074:

So now doesn’t the healing nerf address this issue? What are some servers going to do now that turtleing isn’t so effective? Find a new exploit to win? Or just learn to play?

Classic example on how people got it all wrong.. The people turtling are no the ones that should learn to play.. Its you mate, sorry but its true..

I really dont hope ANet falls for the wow kids whine about getting killed in wvw and turns this game into another wow clone carebear game where there is no loosers..

Overmind.5613:

Classic example on how people got it all wrong.. The people turtling are no the ones that should learn to play.. Its you mate, sorry but its true..

I really dont hope ANet falls for the wow kids whine about getting killed in wvw and turns this game into another wow clone carebear game where there is no loosers..

The only people that have got it wrong are those pve kids that think taking advantage of Anet’s poor design by using dull cheese tactics like turtling non-stop is PvP or even fun.