Guild Wars 2

First remark: This is not a discussion about the existance and the right to exist of GvG. GvG exist on a player based manner and this thread will give everyone involved with GvG a chance to give their remarks. I will ask the moderators to close this thread a week after the start (so next wednesday) at which point I will make a final conclusion about the rules

These rules are based on discussion on the official GW2 forum (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Unofficial-GvG-Scene-Thread/first) so we have included as many voices as we can. Some rules people will agree on, other rules they won’t. Most of these “rules” are already the unwritten rules of GvG, now put together to have a nice summary.

In the proposition I will also sometimes explain the mentality behind a rule. In the final version, that will appear on http://www.gw2gvg.com I will remove these explanations. I started to make a definition of GvG to work further from that and implement all the ideas of the thread mentioned above.

If you want to react: quote the phrase you like to react to and try to improve the statement with constructive criticism or a better way to formulate the phrase. Please do not tear it down with useless “this will not work”/ “Because I don’t like it” / “That’s a stupid rule”. Give us some more details to work with please.
Here we go:

PROPOSITION: RULES OF CONDUCT for GvG

General remark: These are not strict rules. If guilds want to implement other rules, they can do this by mutual agreement.

1. Definition of GvG:
GvG consists of two guilds fighting each other in open field battle using only their knowledge of the different professions, the cohesion of their guild and the composition of the terrain to claim victory over the opposing guild.

2. GvG composition
a. A GvG consist of at least 5 and at most 19 games.
b. Guilds can choose between following formats:

• “Best out of …”; where an uneven number of games is predetermined
• “First until …”; where the number of winning games is predetermined

c. A GvG will not continue if one of both teams has won 10 games.

Explanation: this way scores can differ between 1-0 and 10-9. When the level rises and two equal guilds meet, we have to state an end game. 9-9 will be like the “Golden Goal in soccer”. No one will want to end a GvG when it’s 5-6 or 8-7.

d. The guild with the most games won, wins the GvG
e. A game is won when one of both guilds wipes out the other guild or when the opposing guild leader forfeits the game.

3. Team composition
a. On each side there is one guild.
Explanation: we don’t have any terrain that can take a double gvg without disrupting the WvW.
b. Each guild can bring 10, 15 or 20 players in the GvG. This number has to be equal on both sides so no guild can gain a numerically advantage over the opposing guild.
c. If any player of either participating guilds, who is not included in the agreed number of players, interferes with the GvG, that game is automatically lost by the guild of the interfering player.
d. There are no general restrictions on the usage of a profession and the number of the same profession.

4. Professions / Builds
a. There is no interdiction on the use of Professions
b. There is no interdiction on the use of Skills
c. There is no interdiction on the use of Equipment
d. Exception on rule 4c: Every player has to clear the stacks they have gathered on weapons/equipment using sigils (ex. Bloodlust) before entering a GvG. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCE should stacks gained in a previous round be allowed to remain.

5. Buffs/Boosts
a. Buffs/boosts that are allowed:

• Food
• Slayer potions
• Maintenance oils
• Sharpening stones
• Tuning crystals

b. Buffs/boosts that are not allowed:

• +15% Gathering and 10% Swiftness Banner
• Kite Fortune
• Road Marker
• Armor Booster
• Speed Booster
• Strength Booster
• Rejuvenation Booster
  Explanation: In my opinion, and from what I have read on the forum this is an easy one. Or everyone takes it or no one. I think the second one is better.

6. Terrain composition / Open field battle
a. This terrain is suggestive, if new areas are found more suitable for GvG they can be added to this paragrapgh.
b. GvG terrain: The windmil

• North: Third treeline
• East: East Wall of the windmill
• South: Second ledge of the
• West: Ledge going down to the water

c. The terrain can be used to gain advantage on the opposing guild.
d. Building siege is not allowed (unless for ceremonial usage).
e. Before every game, spectators are asked to remove all possible rally content off the terrain.

7. Spectators
a. Spectators are players who are not actively participating in the GvG
b. Spectators cannot in whatever way interfere with a game. When a game is finished spectators can revive the fallen allies.
c. Spectators should behave in a decent manner, we are all there to enjoy the GvG

Last point
This is something I’m checking out with the designer of GW2GvG, I do not know if it can be implemented but it would make the scene even more active, even for higher ranked guilds. I will not write this in the rules version yet because I do not know if this can be or should be implemented (I don’t know much about programming so I hope someone could find a solution).

On every reset the website http://www.gw2gvg.com will check which matchups have been made. Then it will determine which guilds are in each matchup.

From these guilds he will make a random selection so every guild will have at least 1 GvG it is compelled to participate in. Both guilds are linked to each other for that matchup and have to have a GvG that week. They can still choose how to play and when to play, etc. but this way you have an official GvG that week. I hear a lot of High-tier guilds complaining no one wants to accept their challenges, so this could be some sort of solution to activate the scene even more.

If a guild doesn’t accept the challenge on http://www.gw2gvg.com the opposing guild will get a bonus of some sort for accepting the challenge. If a guild fails to do his obligated GvG for 3 weeks (or something like that), it will be set on none active until the contact reactives it.

Guilds can still do friendly and/or official GvG if they want. Who am I to tell you can’t.

Please discuss in an orderly fashion – I know you can do it

One more space for me so I can adapt the 2 OP’s

EDIT 1: Addapted following rule:

Under NO CIRCUMSTANCE should stacks gained in a previous round be allowed to remain.

“Stacks gained during a previous game of the same GvG can be maintained.”

That’s new. Is this just something that rarely happens because I’ve never seen a fight with stacks. 250 power/prec/healing a big deal and almost creates a snowball effect like Orbs (stronger team becoming stronger etc etc)

I would amend rule #4 so that stack weapons are simply not allowed at all. EP instated a rule last night (in the middle of the Agg GvG) that stack weapons were not allowed. Guildies actually had to waypoint to spawn and buy new weapons/sigils in the spirit of fairness, being above reproach, etc.

Under NO CIRCUMSTANCE should stacks gained in a previous round be allowed to remain. That’s a broken rule and should be removed. Guilds will not be OK with that. standard practice is to have the enemy team down you to remove the stacks.

I would also suggest spectator rules for location. It’s not uncommon for the battling guilds to get VERY close to the spectator line or even cross it. We might want to think about “Everyone on the windmill ramp” or something along those lines. Not the best vantage, but it makes it very easy to spot interfering players, etc.

Elder Sang.2058:

d. Exception on rule 4c: Every player has to clear the stacks they have gathered on weapons/equipment using sigils (ex. Bloodlust) before entering a GvG. Stacks gained during a previous game of the same GvG can be maintained.

Can you say snowball? Can’t say i’d be happy with anyone fighting with stacks tbh.

With regards to your 2nd post…
Nobody should be FORCED to GvG. Dodges will happen, but the community has to police itself here. If a guild is known to be dodging many GvG’s, then they look like pricks. No other punishment necessary.
Really, people should take a step away from the leaderboards, and quite frankly, stop giving so much of a kitten. That goes for both sides of the spectrum, people desperate to make it to the top, and those scared to lose rating.

Hickeroar.9734:

I would amend rule #4 so that stack weapons are simply not allowed at all. EP instated a rule last night (in the middle of the Agg GvG) that stack weapons were not allowed. Guildies actually had to waypoint to spawn and buy new weapons/sigils in the spirit of fairness, being above reproach, etc.

Shouldn’t everybody have stack weapons AND battle weapons on WvW? I mean, unless you are wiping too much, stack weapons become useless as soon you’ve got your stacks so you better have something with useful sigil to switch it to. I know this may sound a bit too hardcore to some, but it is just a common sense, isn’t it?..

Wompage.4586:

Elder Sang.2058:

d. Exception on rule 4c: Every player has to clear the stacks they have gathered on weapons/equipment using sigils (ex. Bloodlust) before entering a GvG. Stacks gained during a previous game of the same GvG can be maintained.

With regards to your 2nd post…
Nobody should be FORCED to GvG. Dodges will happen, but the community has to police itself here. If a guild is known to be dodging many GvG’s, then they look like pricks. No other punishment necessary.
Really, people should take a step away from the leaderboards, and quite frankly, stop giving so much of a kitten. That goes for both sides of the spectrum, people desperate to make it to the top, and those scared to lose rating.

I think I saw someone from VII post saying that they send out 3-4 GvG Requests a week and they ask what guild he is from and the instant he states his guild, he is met with “No” or “Can’t make it” etc. If that happens for a month or essentially there is a boycott against a guild, they’d be dropped or punished. That is completely unfair and I agree with you. You can’t force people to GvG but there does need to be a limit where, if you get the #1 spot, you can’t sit comfortably atop.

If you are “number 1” on whatever ranking system there is, I honestly don’t think you should be allowed to decline ANY request for a fight up to a certain limit per week (1 or 2). If you are Rank 1, you should welcome any chance to prove it and any guild should have the chance to show they can/could beat you.

Yaro.3251:

Hickeroar.9734:

I would amend rule #4 so that stack weapons are simply not allowed at all. EP instated a rule last night (in the middle of the Agg GvG) that stack weapons were not allowed. Guildies actually had to waypoint to spawn and buy new weapons/sigils in the spirit of fairness, being above reproach, etc.

Shouldn’t everybody have stack weapons AND battle weapons on WvW? I mean, unless you are wiping too much, stack weapons become useless as soon you’ve got your stacks so you better have something with useful sigil to switch it to. I know this may sound a bit too hardcore to some, but it is just a common sense, isn’t it?..

It’s a GvG setting. It’s a completely different, controlled setting. As it stands the undocumented rules say all stacks have to be cleared before every round of GvG. No guild is going to accept a set of rules that changes that.

Edit: Thanks to the OP for updating the post.

EDIT 1: Addapted following rule:

Under NO CIRCUMSTANCE should stacks gained in a previous round be allowed to remain.

Why aren’t 10v10’s accepted?

Wompage.4586:

Elder Sang.2058:

d. Exception on rule 4c: Every player has to clear the stacks they have gathered on weapons/equipment using sigils (ex. Bloodlust) before entering a GvG. Stacks gained during a previous game of the same GvG can be maintained.

Can you say snowball? Can’t say i’d be happy with anyone fighting with stacks tbh.

Looks like the OP accepted my suggestion to change that.

JaeKeun.5680:

Why aren’t 10v10’s accepted?

This is a good call. I think 10s, 15s, 20s, 25s, and 30s should all be allowed. Heck, I wouldn’t even be opposed to allowing 5v5. 5v5 would probably need a different ladder though, and could theoretically be handled in sPvP.

JaeKeun.5680:

Why aren’t 10v10’s accepted?

It is, sorry slipped out between typing in word and posting on the forum

LilMcGinley.3890:

Wompage.4586:

Elder Sang.2058:

d. Exception on rule 4c: Every player has to clear the stacks they have gathered on weapons/equipment using sigils (ex. Bloodlust) before entering a GvG. Stacks gained during a previous game of the same GvG can be maintained.

With regards to your 2nd post…
Nobody should be FORCED to GvG. Dodges will happen, but the community has to police itself here. If a guild is known to be dodging many GvG’s, then they look like pricks. No other punishment necessary.
Really, people should take a step away from the leaderboards, and quite frankly, stop giving so much of a kitten. That goes for both sides of the spectrum, people desperate to make it to the top, and those scared to lose rating.

I think I saw someone from VII post saying that they send out 3-4 GvG Requests a week and they ask what guild he is from and the instant he states his guild, he is met with “No” or “Can’t make it” etc. If that happens for a month or essentially there is a boycott against a guild, they’d be dropped or punished. That is completely unfair and I agree with you. You can’t force people to GvG but there does need to be a limit where, if you get the #1 spot, you can’t sit comfortably atop.

If you are “number 1” on whatever ranking system there is, I honestly don’t think you should be allowed to decline ANY request for a fight up to a certain limit per week (1 or 2). If you are Rank 1, you should welcome any chance to prove it and any guild should have the chance to show they can/could beat you.

I get what you’re saying, but lets say MYA, sitting at #2 spot, just start declining GvG’s against any of the guilds in the top 10. No sanctions are needed, because the leaderboards mean absolutely nothing, but the community would regard them in a negative light (no disrespect to MYA, purely using you as an example<3 )
EDIT: I see now TUP have joined gw2gvg, and are now in 2nd place with precisely 1 win, which actually illustrates my point better

The leaderboards are pointless anyway. When you can get to #6 by beating 4 guilds in 10v10 from REALLY low tier servers, the whole thing becomes a farce anyway.

I stress again, there is no need to “punish” guilds, as your spot on the leaderboard means nothing. The top 10 on gw2gvg, are NOT the top10 guilds right now in combat.

JaeKeun.5680:

Why aren’t 10v10’s accepted?

Agreed. The number of players shouldn’t be a rule. It should be agreed upon by the two guilds fighting.

Elder Sang.2058:

JaeKeun.5680:

Why aren’t 10v10’s accepted?

It is, sorry slipped out between typing in word and posting on the forum

Haha, sorry to keep buggin ya, but 25v25 is also very popular. EP’s first GvG against Agg was 25v25 actually. I would go ahead and add that in there as well if I were you.

Elder Sang.2058:

JaeKeun.5680:

Why aren’t 10v10’s accepted?

It is, sorry slipped out between typing in word and posting on the forum

Why is there a limit at all? Also, did you miss something here: “c. If any player of either participating guilds, who is not included in agreed number of players, interferes with the GvG, that games”

style.6173:

JaeKeun.5680:

Why aren’t 10v10’s accepted?

Agreed. The number of players shouldn’t be a rule. It should be agreed upon by the two guilds fighting.

Pretty much this. I would just make the rule state that it should be even numbered teams and leave it at that.

Hickeroar.9734:

Yaro.3251:

Hickeroar.9734:

I would amend rule #4 so that stack weapons are simply not allowed at all. EP instated a rule last night (in the middle of the Agg GvG) that stack weapons were not allowed. Guildies actually had to waypoint to spawn and buy new weapons/sigils in the spirit of fairness, being above reproach, etc.

Shouldn’t everybody have stack weapons AND battle weapons on WvW? I mean, unless you are wiping too much, stack weapons become useless as soon you’ve got your stacks so you better have something with useful sigil to switch it to. I know this may sound a bit too hardcore to some, but it is just a common sense, isn’t it?..

It’s a GvG setting. It’s a completely different, controlled setting. As it stands the undocumented rules say all stacks have to be cleared before every round of GvG. No guild is going to accept a set of rules that changes that.

Edit: Thanks to the OP for updating the post.

I’m not going to argue with that, it just seems strange that people are coming to GvG with stack weapons to begin with.

No guild is going to accept a set of rules that changes that.

Btw that’s just not true. Right now guilds are free to agree on whatever specifics. As long as it it fits into basic deathmatch setup I guess.

Hickeroar.9734:

This is a good call. I think 10s, 15s, 20s, 25s, and 30s should all be allowed. Heck, I wouldn’t even be opposed to allowing 5v5. 5v5 would probably need a different ladder though, and could theoretically be handled in sPvP.

5v5 is imho sPvP. Personally I’m not into 10v10 2 but I discussed these set of rules with some people already and we decided that taking out 10v10 would realy hurt the GvG scene because it excludes smaller less hardcore guilds.

On the other hand 30s are more about blobbing, not everyone has a computer that can play that kind of blobbing without lagfast and even less guilds will play that because of the numbers (I don’t know a lot of guilds who can pull that one off). 25s, we discussed it and same reasons as 30s come forth, little bit less though, but we are still a growing scene, so who knows what the future will bring. Besides, check the first rule, you can always adapt in mutual agreement

saiyr.3071:

Elder Sang.2058:

JaeKeun.5680:

Why aren’t 10v10’s accepted?

It is, sorry slipped out between typing in word and posting on the forum

Why is there a limit at all? Also, did you miss something here: “c. If any player of either participating guilds, who is not included in agreed number of players, interferes with the GvG, that games”

Adapted, lols, my word is not nice 2 me

Elder Sang.2058:

Hickeroar.9734:

This is a good call. I think 10s, 15s, 20s, 25s, and 30s should all be allowed. Heck, I wouldn’t even be opposed to allowing 5v5. 5v5 would probably need a different ladder though, and could theoretically be handled in sPvP.

5v5 is imho sPvP. Personally I’m not into 10v10 2 but I discussed these set of rules with some people already and we decided that taking out 10v10 would realy hurt the GvG scene because it excludes smaller less hardcore guilds.

On the other hand 30s are more about blobbing, not everyone has a computer that can play that kind of blobbing without lagfast and even less guilds will play that because of the numbers (I don’t know a lot of guilds who can pull that one off). 25s, we discussed it and think it’s better for the scene to keep it with those 3 formats “10/15/20”. Same reasons as 30s, little bit less though, but we are still a growing scene, so who knows what the future will bring. Besides, check the first rule, you can always adapt in mutual agreement

As long as the website is not limiting in recording numbers then I don’t care. If it’s recorded and doesn’t count towards whatever size ranking then it’s fine. But what we’re trying to point out is exactly that: it’s your opinion and we disagree, so it seems weird to make it a rule. But speaking of ranking, if we are actually maintaining ranking on the website, is it going to be a unified ranking for all sizes?

Wompage.4586:

I get what you’re saying, but lets say MYA, sitting at #2 spot, just start declining GvG’s against any of the guilds in the top 10. No sanctions are needed, because the leaderboards mean absolutely nothing, but the community would regard them in a negative light (no disrespect to MYA, purely using you as an example <3)

The leaderboards are pointless anyway. When you can get to #6 by beating 4 guilds in 10v10 from REALLY low tier servers, the whole thing becomes a farce anyway.

I stress again, there is no need to “punish” guilds, as your spot on the leaderboard means nothing. The top 10 on gw2gvg, are NOT the top10 guilds right now in combat.

Why not have just an overall Win-Loss record then, or alphabetical or ordered by last GvG? Why create a pseudo-ranking system that people will drool over when it is pointless?

My whole issue is: since these rankings have been implemented, people who are just now getting into GvG will use them to judge, grief, troll etc other guilds because “you suck” etc.

This is more of a gw2gvg.com issue but it spills over to the forums rather quickly and could really hinder inner-guild relationships if people start getting griefed over some pointless ranking on a website. I’d hate to see people use those rankings to predetermine skill rather than stepping up and fighting them to see for yourself.

LilMcGinley.3890:

Why not have just an overall Win-Loss record then, or alphabetical or ordered by last GvG? Why create a pseudo-ranking system that people will drool over when it is pointless?

This is exactly what would be best imo. Simply a catalogue of previous results. The rating brings more trouble than its worth.

saiyr.3071:

As long as the website is not limiting in recording numbers then I don’t care. If it’s recorded and doesn’t count towards whatever size ranking then it’s fine. But what we’re trying to point out is exactly that: it’s your opinion and we disagree, so it seems weird to make it a rule. But speaking of ranking, if we are actually maintaining ranking on the website, is it going to be a unified ranking for all sizes?

I cannot answer this question, I do know they are reworking the website (read it in some other threads). I do feel it would be difficult to split up the different sizes at this point because we don’t have enough active GvG-guilds. We are currently testing the second post, to check if a setup like that is even possible and which things we have to take into account. The number of participants you choose is one of the things that does matter.

LilMcGinley.3890:

Why create a pseudo-ranking system that people will drool over when it is pointless?

My whole issue is: since these rankings have been implemented, people who are just now getting into GvG will use them to judge, grief, troll etc other guilds because “you suck” etc.

I’d hate to see people use those rankings to predetermine skill rather than stepping up and fighting them to see for yourself.

In my experience we don’t need these ranking to get GvG-denials. When a good guild does his WvW-raid on a Borderland and wipes a guild of the opponents time after time, they are afraid to accept a GvG because of their history. You can see it on the battlefield where whole guilds run away from you when you are just approaching.

I think EP has proven that everyone has a chance to win if they have the guts to try it.
They lost to Agg before, now they won. This both in controversy with their ranking AND their history.

And it is not the higher ranked guilds that are mostly declining. It’s the middle ranked. I personally don’t care about that rank, I just wanna get better at the game.

Any rules on how interference is to be handled? Play-on? Draw?

Can we get NFL style instant-replay?

If you go below 10 then you would need a second ladder, something that has been suggested for the GvG website previously. The skillsets required are definitely not the same.

While I appreciate your effort Elder, the problem I have with all this is that it seems convoluted on purpose, kind of like law or finances are… in the spirit of making it sound complex and imposing. Double edge sword, and really, all those paragraphs could be summarized in 3 or four lines. Wouldnt look as flashy tho, but to the rookies it is more appealing and reasonable.

If you really want to do this you gotta come up with a clean, easy and very short exposition. Keep it simple ppl.

My 2c, as always, no more no less. o/

Wompage.4586:

I get what you’re saying, but lets say MYA, sitting at #2 spot, just start declining GvG’s against any of the guilds in the top 10. No sanctions are needed, because the leaderboards mean absolutely nothing, but the community would regard them in a negative light (no disrespect to MYA, purely using you as an example<3 )

Let’s take a sligtly more complicated example. Let’s say that #1 gets so many requests that they just cannot accept every one of them. I mean, what is acceptable nr of GvGs in this case per week? 1? 3? 7?.. This leaves a huge grey area as to which requests to accept and which not to.

This is just to show that dreaming up too restrictive set of rules wouldn’t be productive in absence of support by the game (ie game mode). I wouldn’t say leaderbord means nothing, but would agree that we shouldn’t read too much into it and make it a “spine” of GvG community.

JaeKeun.5680:

If you go below 10 then you would need a second ladder, something that has been suggested for the GvG website previously. The skillsets required are definitely not the same.

Yes, and I’d argue that it’s the same between even 10 and 20 (or 25, whatever).

Ogre.1750:

While I appreciate your effort Elder, the problem I have with all this is that it seems convoluted on purpose, kind of like law or finances are… in the spirit of making it sound complex and imposing. Double edge sword, and really, all those paragraphs could be summarized in 3 or four lines. Wouldnt look as flashy tho, but to the rookies it is more appealing and reasonable.

If you really want to do this you gotta come up with a clean, easy and very short exposition. Keep it simple ppl.

My 2c, as always, no more no less. o/

I agree, it does seem very “Terms of Service”y/legalese, haha. But that’s not a problem with the rules themselves, that’s just presentation and can be fixed easily.

LilMcGinley.3890:

Any rules on how interference is to be handled? Play-on? Draw?

Interference = losing that particular game. It’s then up to the guild leader to make sure his or her guild doesn’t do it again. We don’t have the ability to create judges, like some people already said in several posts, we have to rely on the honousty and honour of the guild(leader). I thought I read somewhere a post to give spectators a standard spot from where they really can’t interfere with the GvG. Maybe we should look into that. Any suggestions?

LilMcGinley.3890:

Can we get NFL style instant-replay?

You can always switch servers and start taping

Ogre.1750:

While I appreciate your effort Elder, the problem I have with all this is that it seems convoluted on purpose, kind of like law or finances are… in the spirit of making it sound complex and imposing. Double edge sword, and really, all those paragraphs could be summarized in 3 or four lines. Wouldnt look as flashy tho, but to the rookies it is more appealing and reasonable.

If you really want to do this you gotta come up with a clean, easy and very short exposition. Keep it simple ppl.

My 2c, as always, no more no less. o/

I have no problem with all these reactions, I like the fact that there are people willing to contribute. I don’t mind rewrite these “rules” in another way, but there will always be loopholes. For example, 2e: “A game is won when one of both guilds wipes out the other guild or when the opposing guild leader forfeits the game”. What if they have 2 thieves who keep being in stealth and keep fighting or ressing. What if the guild leader doesn’t forfeit it because the rules say.

I know there is not one decent leader that would do that, but the possibilities are there. We all love GvG but to grow even more and attract even more guilds into it we should create a platform.

BTW, if anyone wanna help rewrite them, just give me a PM, I’m always open for help and suggestions.

General reply:
One of the reasons I would like to “install” the obligated GvG’s is because over time it will bring balance to the ladder. We are searching for a formula that will make sure that those matches will most likely happen between even/closely ranked guilds. This way the ladder will restore itself. Problem is that there aren’t enough guilds atm who registered. Guilds from Piken are with 12 / Vizunah only 2. This is thus an issue.

Elder Sang.2058:

LilMcGinley.3890:

Any rules on how interference is to be handled? Play-on? Draw?

Interference = losing that particular game. It’s then up to the guild leader to make sure his or her guild doesn’t do it again. We don’t have the ability to create judges, like some people already said in several posts, we have to rely on the honousty and honour of the guild(leader). I thought I read somewhere a post to give spectators a standard spot from where they really can’t interfere with the GvG. Maybe we should look into that. Any suggestions?

My post was more inline with other guilds interfering IE spectators… but yes, I agree that interference results in immediate forfeiture of that Round on 1st offense, match on 2nd. A little harsh but deliberate manipulation of Rounds should be punished harshly.

As for the spectator spot – I would need to hop in the BL and check the sighting because from the windmill you might be able to see all the action.

Guilds could also put their stream(s) in Map/Team chat before the fight so if people wanted to watch and not take up BL space they can.

To talk about Ogre’s Post:

Yes, laying out rules as this could be summed up in 3-4 lines for the “seasoned pros” of the GvG scene.. but we all aren’t. Everything I learned about GvG is purely from watching GvGs, I’ve never actually fought in one for specific reasons. Knowing that there is a solid foundation of rules that I can read over and review any time I want will help expand the number of people who had that desire to create a guild for GvGs but didn’t know where to start.

I think this is a great start and the expansion of the rules should be kept to a minimum to prevent “scope creep” of said rules. GvG should be something easy to get started in, not a huge wall of information you have to take in which might deter you.

Interference can also mean two unguilded hacking glass thieves that are just as much hated by the winning side as the losing, such as the kitten vs RE practice matches. This won’t be an uncommon thing, but it should probably be considered a void round.

There are some arguments against doing any rule lists. While it’s easy to agree on that with the currect quite honorable pool of guilds.
What happens when someone actually starts abusing the limits. Multiple engineer 1.5k range kiting a team half of the gvg area untill the actual fight starts, thiefs starting perma stealth harrasment right from the buffing section of the gvg, teams kiting deep into the forest. Kiting around the windmill. Or just waiting behind a choke on the south side of windmill. Or something like that. People are trolls and kittens.
Thus I think it is great to have underlying strict rules on the background. In general nobody will ever need them but they exist for the extreme cases. Very satisfied how you decided to formulate these as I was bit sceptical before hand.

If there is something odd in this post, I apologise as I am watch?v=NPiGJBHVadA

Couple things to prevent these extreme cases.
1. Both guilds will agree on the starting time of the gvg by using the match up tick timer. " go on 9 minutes".
2. Every member of the opposing team must be further than 1.2k range of the enemy team untill the start of the gvg (ofc movement during the downtime is totally free).
3. Every member must be inside 1.2k radius of the commander before the start of the gvg. ( mark starting area that both starting areas?)
4. Tighter limit on the combat area → instant disqualification of a player if fallen into water without enemy control. Same if gone past the second forest treeline (trunks), north side of the gvg area.

Alot of the rules are irrelevant. Im just thinking extreme troll moments.

That made total and complete sense Sabull. You should drink more often :P

Rules are indeed there to decide about extreem cases. If everyone did what common sense would suggest, there wouldn’t be any need for rules (like Sabul said). But people don’t.

I have a long day of work ahead, so no direct adjustments today, I do hope people keep suggesting, I really like the input so far.

Wompage.4586:

LilMcGinley.3890:

Wompage.4586:

Elder Sang.2058:

d. Exception on rule 4c: Every player has to clear the stacks they have gathered on weapons/equipment using sigils (ex. Bloodlust) before entering a GvG. Stacks gained during a previous game of the same GvG can be maintained.

With regards to your 2nd post…
Nobody should be FORCED to GvG. Dodges will happen, but the community has to police itself here. If a guild is known to be dodging many GvG’s, then they look like pricks. No other punishment necessary.
Really, people should take a step away from the leaderboards, and quite frankly, stop giving so much of a kitten. That goes for both sides of the spectrum, people desperate to make it to the top, and those scared to lose rating.

I think I saw someone from VII post saying that they send out 3-4 GvG Requests a week and they ask what guild he is from and the instant he states his guild, he is met with “No” or “Can’t make it” etc. If that happens for a month or essentially there is a boycott against a guild, they’d be dropped or punished. That is completely unfair and I agree with you. You can’t force people to GvG but there does need to be a limit where, if you get the #1 spot, you can’t sit comfortably atop.

If you are “number 1” on whatever ranking system there is, I honestly don’t think you should be allowed to decline ANY request for a fight up to a certain limit per week (1 or 2). If you are Rank 1, you should welcome any chance to prove it and any guild should have the chance to show they can/could beat you.

I get what you’re saying, but lets say MYA, sitting at #2 spot, just start declining GvG’s against any of the guilds in the top 10. No sanctions are needed, because the leaderboards mean absolutely nothing, but the community would regard them in a negative light (no disrespect to MYA, purely using you as an example<3 )
EDIT: I see now TUP have joined gw2gvg, and are now in 2nd place with precisely 1 win, which actually illustrates my point better

The leaderboards are pointless anyway. When you can get to #6 by beating 4 guilds in 10v10 from REALLY low tier servers, the whole thing becomes a farce anyway.

I stress again, there is no need to “punish” guilds, as your spot on the leaderboard means nothing. The top 10 on gw2gvg, are NOT the top10 guilds right now in combat.

Hey now, it should read 9 wins 1 draw 1 defeat. But alas guilds have either disbanded since our GvG (SoE from Gunnars Hold) or haven’t yet accepted the results yet.

Our good mates in Mya were very fast at acknowledging the result. Hence the leap in rating.

Glicko system is flawed yes, but until someone has a better system (as we all can’t just face each other when we like -/shakes fist at matchups) its what we got to deal with.

Only a handful in the community care about that ranking nonsense. For me and my guild its about promoting the GvG community to ANET, showing it is alive and kicking, ultimate goal to get them to make a format for us all.

End of the day its about fun and challenge. Zerg busting is one aspect, testing yourself on just how big a zerg you can handle. The other side, the better side, is fighting against other organised guild groups.

As to the extended list of ideas from the OP. I think it just needs to be agreed between opponents tbh. As for punishments for refusal?? That’s quite a joke. We get refused all the time, while others on our server get GvGs. Each guild plays how they want, maybe they only do GvGs 1/week. Maybe they only do 3/week and get booked quickly. Maybe the GvG guy(s) are on vacation. You can’t force people to GvG, end of the day we all play for fun – some just have a different definition of said fun.

Just all try to be adults and it will flow.

Typical mal ^. Had a guy like you at our GvG last night. Made us delay a round that was about to get underway – he soon left when the enemy guild ran him over. He was exactly the same “F GvGs this is WvW…”

Every single GvG guild does a lot of fighting and killing for their respective servers. So what if they take an hour to themselves. Hell on all but the top tiers they aren’t even making queues on the map – think about it they could be in PVE not helping your precious scores. Instead they are tying up equal numbers of enemies that would otherwise be stopping you taking things? Half the time after or even before a GvG guilds have been raiding for hours or will do afterwards.

Learn some respect. To get respect you gotta earn it. Guilds run round killing, taking objectives, occupying the enemy for hours on end. I know of no guild that does JUST GvG and doesn’t smash stuff in WvW.

Dranul.2094:

Typical mal ^. Had a guy like you at our GvG last night. Made us delay a round that was about to get underway – he soon left when the enemy guild ran him over. He was exactly the same “F GvGs this is WvW…”

Every single GvG guild does a lot of fighting and killing for their respective servers. So what if they take an hour to themselves. Hell on all but the top tiers they aren’t even making queues on the map – think about it they could be in PVE not helping your precious scores. Instead they are tying up equal numbers of enemies that would otherwise be stopping you taking things? Half the time after or even before a GvG guilds have been raiding for hours or will do afterwards.

Learn some respect. To get respect you gotta earn it. Guilds run round killing, taking objectives, occupying the enemy for hours on end. I know of no guild that does JUST GvG and doesn’t smash stuff in WvW.

Learn some respect? Try having AGG on your server for a month and having them absolutely cause drama by ignoring everyone, sitting in EB to cause queues and laughing at anyone telling them to either help or gtfo. Then have them act like complete egotistical kittens who are elitist GvG guild with kitten-tier members individually, yet numbers to berate anyone not in their guild.

No. Ive seen no respect from GvG guilds, ever. So, i wont give any.

The fact youre trying to set rules for spectators is a joke.

Please ignore offensive trolls? Though despite his attitude, I agree with him. Rules for spectators don’t really work unless the spectators are all GvGers. Maguuma enjoys having Agg, so I guess we’re both happy.

I think there needs to be rules for spectators. It’s same as for pedestrians in the Traffic code. If they don’t follow rules they can get rolled by a car. If there are no rules, how can they know what they can do? Every participant should know their obligation and entitlement.
Same applies for GvG. If spectators do whatever they want, they will get killed. Rules are for their protection as well. Not only for GvGers…

Those that are interfering aren’t there to watch anyways. Not matter what pointless rules you make that will waste everyone’s time. You’re trying to apply rules to people who wont follow them anyways. It’s a WvW zone people will interfere(though I wouldn’t call it that being that it is a wvw zone, so you can’t really call it that.) whether it is intended or not. Deal with it and move on. People attack the other server because they are red that’s how it isn’t. You aren’t in some instanced magical safe zone.

Trolls will troll. But new people interested in GvG will read it and will have ”insurance“ that if they follow rules they will not be killed and can safely watch GvG.
For spectators it’s not really rule but more good manners code.

Glad to see TUP officially joining the scene. If we can organise matches with TuP, HoB, Flare and VCY in the same week, VII will make that the second leg of our GvG tour.

— I hear a lot of High-tier guilds complaining no one wants to accept their challenges, so this could be some sort of solution to activate the scene even more.

A possible thought to this, instead of forcing a challenge for multiple reasons already brought up in the thread, instead make a challenge/accept history. Basically guild A has issued a 20v20 challenge to guild B and guild B declines the offer. Now the guild history of both guilds shows this record. This in no way punishes a guild with theoretical rating but instead challenges their reputation to stay active. If it would be possible and wouldn’t clutter the UI it may be nice to have a short 15/w (just an example) description for reasons ex. Driver was away, we do not 10v10, etc.

Vanz.5976:

Glad to see TUP officially joining the scene. If we can organise matches with TuP, HoB, Flare and VCY in the same week, VII will make that the second leg of our GvG tour.

Looking forward to that!

Matches need to speed up as well and teams taking 20 minutes between rounds has got to stop. I think a clock rule should be added as well. For example: If Team B is taking too long, Team A can notify them that they are being put on the clock. If Team B is not ready within 10 minutes of that point, the round is forfeit.

Appearance changing potions need to be explicitly excluded for numerous reasons because they can mask class, race, etc. and prevent opponents from identifying key people in fights. It is nothing more than a crutch. The bigger reason is the absolute absurdity of everyone on a side running with a shape change.

covenn.7165:

Matches need to speed up as well and teams taking 20 minutes between rounds has got to stop. I think a clock rule should be added as well. For example: If Team B is taking too long, Team A can notify them that they are being put on the clock. If Team B is not ready within 10 minutes of that point, the round is forfeit.

Appearance changing potions need to be explicitly excluded for numerous reasons because they can mask class, race, etc. and prevent opponents from identifying key people in fights. It is nothing more than a crutch. The bigger reason is the absolute absurdity of everyone on a side running with a shape change.

lolno. I have never known anyone take 20mins between rounds unless its waiting for a blob fight somewhere else on the map to end to get rid of skill-lag. I’ll assume you are exaggerating to make a point though. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for delays.
And seriously the ghost tonic debate is old news, people need to learn to deal with it.
Masking class? Race? Attunements, Virtues, signets.

Wompage.4586:

lolno. I have never known anyone take 20mins between rounds unless its waiting for a blob fight somewhere else on the map to end to get rid of skill-lag. I’ll assume you are exaggerating to make a point though. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for delays.
And seriously the ghost tonic debate is old news, people need to learn to deal with it.
Masking class? Race? Attunements, Virtues, signets.

Yeah of course they are old news and I agree with you about being able to tell class from the icons. (however they do mask mostly being able to pick out individual players… which top guild absolutely do). My bigger point, as stated, is the absolute absurdity of it. Might as well have 20v20 ghost tonic fights for kittens and giggles.

Regarding the time issue, no I am not exaggerating by saying that some rounds at times can take upwards of 20 minutes in between. Obviously the rule would only come into effect if one guild was literally taking forever and wouldnt be needed in most cases. I have done a lot of GvG both on and off the record, trust me it happens more than you think.

5b done by the OP should just read:

“All other buffs/boosts are not allowed.”

Why leave it open to interpretation if something isn’t listed? List the accepted and just state all others are banned and leave it at that.