Guild Wars 2

Is the upcoming WvW patch going to be a ’Make or Break" for you and GW2?

For me it is.

is what? plus a few more letters to reach 15

No idea. I like WvW overall. It’s not perfect, but I think overall it’s quite a bit of fun.

What I’m getting very tired of is the culling. It’s getting to be very annoying to have no idea what is actually around you at times….friends, foes, how many of each…all seem to be a mystery at times and that is frustrating.

With no monthly fee, I can see me putting this down for a while and coming back in 4 or 5 months to see if there’s been any progress on that. This latest change is not progress, IMO…it’s no better or worse than before, just a different set of culling issues.

Not really make or break, but it may be time for a pause.

What are you referring to? In what terms “make of break”?

Regarding progression, content or balance?

There really is nothing else out there in any MMO even close to as good as current WVW in GW2.

Feb update is just a bonus really, ongoing fixes.

I love wvw. Played a ton. Had a ton of fun. It is so awesome.

Having said that I am bored of it to some extent now. I love the strategy element of WvW. If I want to fight and try to own people its obviously pointless due to the gear/level differentials. So I will go to spvp.

No, I play(ed) WvW for the strategy. However the more I play the less strategy I seem to see in the game. The maps are, quite frankly, too small. By this I mean the objectives are too close together. They wont change this because people already QQ about long run times from x to y (which is wierd seen as this is no issue ever – 1 side of a map to another takes very little time).

But at present numbers are all that matters. You can group up as 50 dudes and cover the whole map more or less.

It should be that the maps are so big that if you decide to attack in the east (for example) then you basically open yourself up to an attack in the west and cant really respond.

Anet devs think that the best way to play is to have 4-5 small zergs. This is completely wrong. The best way is at most 2 zergs of 30 guys (sometimes just 1 zerg is best) and nobody solo except maybe to interrupt some dolyaks.

And that is boring. They need to add more strategy to keep me interested but, as I am sure I am in the minority, I am not expecting them too.

Things which would appeal to me:

-Double the distance between all keeps, towers and camps
-Objectives which hold a tactical advantage (such as hold this hill for 3 mins and get 5 trebs there to treb a keep)
-More tools for commanders to dictate the play, and a WvW requirement to be a commander – e.g. 10k kills in WvW. To stop PvE heros being the only commanders.

Just make the whole thing feel EPIC. Which it really doesnt at the moment. Planetside 2 feels epic in terms of the map size and the bases. GW2 should move in that direction and really make the maps HUGE. And add things like upgrading sentrys into watch towers.

Yes & No, I’m looking forward to having a purpose for WvW, whether it be Ranks, titles, abilities, or just new things to do. If the patch sucks, I will continue to play but will certainly be dissapointed.

Since DAoC, I’ve searched for a game that is somewhat the same game style, I finally found what I think will be the closest thing we may ever see, in GW2. So no I won’t quit.

Moxtidus.4576:

They promised us that Jan+Feb update = Expension worth.

Jan Pve update is plain joke.

Im gonna quit GW2 if the wVw update sucks.

For sure.

You seem to completely miss what a slowly evolving story line entails… it’s just a prelude to a a story line that is intended to happen over time. You can’t experience the whole thing on day 1, the content for the PVE side is intended to change over weeks.

Dee Jay.2460:

What are you referring to? In what terms “make of break”?

Regarding progression, content or balance?

The OP hasn’t thought it out that far, and doesn’t really know. I’ve checked out a bunch of his previous postings and they mostly are just asking for better rewards to make WvW more “interesting”.

I’m hoping for something half-decent but assuming itll be “Too little too late”

Lordrosicky.5813:

-Double the distance between all keeps, towers and camps
-Objectives which hold a tactical advantage (such as hold this hill for 3 mins and get 5 trebs there to treb a keep)
-More tools for commanders to dictate the play, and a WvW requirement to be a commander – e.g. 10k kills in WvW. To stop PvE heros being the only commanders.

Totally agree. We need new/larger maps for WvW’s long term viability.This would force the zerg to split up into smaller groups to defend/attack far away areas. This in turn would make battles more strategic/skill based and also reduce culling issues of zerg vs. zerg. Unfortunately new maps don’t seem to be a priority from what I’ve heard from their wvw team.

Another suggestion I’ve been thinking about is more incentive to defend. Give defenders something to do during down time. This would be even more necessary if they create larger maps. Currently sitting in a keep waiting for it to be attacked is a terribly boring affair.
•Add buttressing: player can enforce wall sections and doors by hanging out in the keep and doing a long build action (costs 10 supply takes 1 minute each section) that adds 10% health to that wall section or door.
•Allow players to build “back doors” to keeps, creating a new in/out portal. Make it a long build action, or cost a lot of supply. Make it so only one player can work on it at a time so a zerg can’t insta-build it.
•Allow players to dump their supply into a tower’s supply, allowing defenders to run supply back and forth to give them something to do.
•Create a mini-game, gambling or dicing, that a defending player could play with other defenders or NPC’s while they are sitting there waiting for an enemy attack.

neverborne.4736:

Lordrosicky.5813:

I love wvw. Played a ton. Had a ton of fun. It is so awesome.

Having said that I am bored of it to some extent now. I love the strategy element of WvW. If I want to fight and try to own people its obviously pointless due to the gear/level differentials. So I will go to spvp.

No, I play(ed) WvW for the strategy. However the more I play the less strategy I seem to see in the game. The maps are, quite frankly, too small. By this I mean the objectives are too close together. They wont change this because people already QQ about long run times from x to y (which is wierd seen as this is no issue ever – 1 side of a map to another takes very little time).

But at present numbers are all that matters. You can group up as 50 dudes and cover the whole map more or less.

It should be that the maps are so big that if you decide to attack in the east (for example) then you basically open yourself up to an attack in the west and cant really respond.

Anet devs think that the best way to play is to have 4-5 small zergs. This is completely wrong. The best way is at most 2 zergs of 30 guys (sometimes just 1 zerg is best) and nobody solo except maybe to interrupt some dolyaks.

And that is boring. They need to add more strategy to keep me interested but, as I am sure I am in the minority, I am not expecting them too.

Things which would appeal to me:

-Double the distance between all keeps, towers and camps
-Objectives which hold a tactical advantage (such as hold this hill for 3 mins and get 5 trebs there to treb a keep)
-More tools for commanders to dictate the play, and a WvW requirement to be a commander – e.g. 10k kills in WvW. To stop PvE heros being the only commanders.

Just make the whole thing feel EPIC. Which it really doesnt at the moment. Planetside 2 feels epic in terms of the map size and the bases. GW2 should move in that direction and really make the maps HUGE. And add things like upgrading sentrys into watch towers.

Totally agree. We need new/larger maps for WvW’s long term viability. Unfortunately that doesn’t seem to be a priority from what I’ve heard from their team.

Another suggestion I’ve been thinking about is more incentive to defend. This would be even more nessecary if they create larger maps. Currently sitting in a keep waiting for it to be attacked is a terribly boring affair. Add buttressing: player can enforce wall sections and doors by hanging out in the keep and doing a long build action (costs 10 supply takes 1 minute each section) that adds 10% health to that wall section or door. Create a mini-game, gambling or dicing, that a defending player could play with other defenders or NPC’s while they are sitting there waiting for an enemy attack.

Love that buttressing idea dude. That was be awesome. It would have to be capped at like 20% stronger and should take 3 minutes to channel and like 80 supply?

Cactus.2710:

Dee Jay.2460:

What are you referring to? In what terms “make of break”?

Regarding progression, content or balance?

The OP hasn’t thought it out that far, and doesn’t really know. I’ve checked out a bunch of his previous postings and they mostly are just asking for better rewards to make WvW more “interesting”.

Yea – better rewards would be nice since there are no rewards for WvW. Badges? Don’t really need them anymore. Karma, don’t need that anymore. WvW is nothing but a massive zerg running all over the map capping and killing and being culled the whole time.

There is no reason to WvW right now as there is nothing to gain from it. If WvW was rewarding in some way, then sure, it would be worthwhile. Right now – not at all.

So yes, more/better rewards would make it more ‘interesting’, ‘fun’, and ‘rewarding’.

tkalamba.2541:

Moxtidus.4576:

They promised us that Jan+Feb update = Expension worth.

Jan Pve update is plain joke.

Im gonna quit GW2 if the wVw update sucks.

For sure.

You seem to completely miss what a slowly evolving story line entails… it’s just a prelude to a a story line that is intended to happen over time. You can’t experience the whole thing on day 1, the content for the PVE side is intended to change over weeks.

Yeah maybe. They still said January+Feb = Expension Worth.

I’m affraid they lied. I really hope i am wrong.

xiv.7136:

There really is nothing else out there in any MMO even close to as good as current WVW in GW2.

Feb update is just a bonus really, ongoing fixes.

The only thing on the horizon is Elder Scrolls Online, to be released sometime in 2013. It will have WvW very similar to GW2, but who knows how it will turn out. So for the moment, GW2 is it.

I will say the combat in GW2 is immensely fun. Honestly the best I’ve encountered in an MMO. The classes are also excellent, and finding builds and synergies that work for you very rewarding.

However, the play in WvW has deteriorated drastically over the last 2 months. It has essentially become big zerg vs. big zerg to the point where small group vs. small group has gotten squeezed out.

This is what has me worried, because if it doesn’t come back, I’ll go looking for it somewhere else. Not sure there is much they can do in one patch though.

quoting and agreeing ALOT with what you have said.

Lordrosicky.5813:

I love wvw. Played a ton. Had a ton of fun. It is so awesome.

Having said that I am bored of it to some extent now. I love the strategy element of WvW. If I want to fight and try to own people its obviously pointless due to the gear/level differentials. So I will go to spvp.

No, I play(ed) WvW for the strategy. However the more I play the less strategy I seem to see in the game. The maps are, quite frankly, too small. By this I mean the objectives are too close together. They wont change this because people already QQ about long run times from x to y (which is wierd seen as this is no issue ever – 1 side of a map to another takes very little time).

But at present numbers are all that matters. You can group up as 50 dudes and cover the whole map more or less.

It should be that the maps are so big that if you decide to attack in the east (for example) then you basically open yourself up to an attack in the west and cant really respond.

Anet devs think that the best way to play is to have 4-5 small zergs. This is completely wrong. The best way is at most 2 zergs of 30 guys (sometimes just 1 zerg is best) and nobody solo except maybe to interrupt some dolyaks.

And that is boring. They need to add more strategy to keep me interested but, as I am sure I am in the minority, I am not expecting them too.

Things which would appeal to me:

-Double the distance between all keeps, towers and camps
-Objectives which hold a tactical advantage (such as hold this hill for 3 mins and get 5 trebs there to treb a keep)
-More tools for commanders to dictate the play, and a WvW requirement to be a commander – e.g. 10k kills in WvW. To stop PvE heros being the only commanders.

Just make the whole thing feel EPIC. Which it really doesnt at the moment. Planetside 2 feels epic in terms of the map size and the bases. GW2 should move in that direction and really make the maps HUGE. And add things like upgrading sentrys into watch towers.

I gotta say I’m a bit bored of WvW right now. The next update will prolly be a make or break for me.

I don’t really like the Zerging aspect of it. Early on I thought it was cool and had some fun. But after a while, it gets boring to always do the same thing.

Especially since Anvil Rock got some population rise in WvW, and we have a lot of culling now. If I follow a zerg, I know I won’t be able to see much of the enemy, ad it’s going to be random and boring.

I personaly prefer roaming, less lag and less culling. More “pvp” skill involved. But it’s hard to find roaming enemy, and hard to find ally to roam with. Map are too small and you fall too often on zergs.

I’m more a fan of Open World pvp then WvW, that’s my issue here. But like said before, there are no other incoming MMO right now. Will do with what I have.

Yes, the upcoming WvW patch will determine whether I continue to play Guild Wars 2.

Depends on what the patch is, however from playing many MMOS, I’ve learned not to rely on a company to make a patch which will fix everything. But to rely on a company to make a patch which fixes some things, breaks others, and such.

This is just a ragequit thread. [FANG] and SoS are getting facerolled.

• It wasn’t easymode for [FANG] on Crystal Desert — solution: bandwagon to SoS.
• No more easymode for [FANG] on SoS — solution: rage quit.

It is one thing to thread up a discussion about coming change, exciting potential, or even impending developmental concerns; however, the entire tone of the dialog changes when one threatens to quit.

The server transfer fees need to be adjusted to reflect server position in wvw not server population.

the culling is terrible for 15-25 man guild groups as people in your field of view randomly appear and disappear exactly as they did in December and large forces come out of culling slower than they use to.

if its that bad in 15-25 imagine what it is for us we run in 50-60 vs 60-70

Jiiub.7135:

if its that bad in 15-25 imagine what it is for us we run in 50-60 vs 60-70

we’re the small group that are targeting you or trying too :p

why? we got auto targets for a reason, it will target no matter if you see the enemy or not.. most of the time :P

Jiiub.7135:

why? we got auto targets for a reason, it will target no matter if you see the enemy or not.. most of the time :P

I… I think I’m cluster bombing you… oh no thats just 1 guy .. oh there you are behind us… where is my warband??? oh I’m dead

:-D

Yes it will be a make or break deal for me depending on if they fix the Ranger, or not.

I’ve played Minecraft with my younger kids for a couple days, and didn’t miss GW2 the entire time.

I wanted to bang my head against the wall once I realized that.

The PvE update is Laughable and the WvW update is worse than it was before for me, So i doubt i’ll be here much longer.

Good Luck to those that it is actually better for.

I think what puts the nail in the coffin for me is that I purchased four games. One for me, my wife, and my two older boys. My wife, and two boys quit, with my boys playing League of Legends again, and Diablo 3. GW2 for my wife has pretty much allowed her to give up MMOs period, and she hasn’t played another game since.

That leaves me. I really hope they take things serious, or this is going to be another failed MMO like Age of Conan, and other titles that ended up in the same situation.

Colly.4073:

The PvE update is Laughable and the WvW update is worse than it was before for me, So i doubt i’ll be here much longer.

Good Luck to those that it is actually better for.

There definitely seems to be a massive lack of understanding as to what the PVE update actually was.

See, here’s the thing, you are not meant to see and know the entire story on day one. The PVE update will progress slowly overtime with subtly and reward exploration. Day one was seeing the refugee make their way south, and helping them along the way. After a few days, we start to see more of the story unfold, and eventually partake in the entire evolution of the story.

You will not see the whole thing at once. The idea is to simulate a living world. Things will change overtime as you experience the new PVE content.

Here’s a very good link I took from reddit that does a much better job of explaining it than I do.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=47082946&postcount=9795

February patch isn’t make-or-break for me. I have a good set of friends who I play with and I am still having fun with the game. Necro 4 lyfe

xiv.7136:

There really is nothing else out there in any MMO even close to as good as current WVW in GW2.

Feb update is just a bonus really, ongoing fixes.

I wouldn’t be so complacent. True, not many MMO RPG’s offer WvW but the large scale strategic co-ordination in WvW can be found in many other games. Planetside 2 for one. Also Eve Online just had a 2800 player battle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLqb-m1ZZUA

For me, yes. I probably won’t quit for good but will definitley need a break if it’s not as good update as i’m hoping.

As fun as I am having doing small roaming groups/guild runs, I can imagine it fast becoming stale without new progression types/wvw objectives.
-

Ash
[JDGE] Gandara

Moxtidus.4576:

They promised us that Jan+Feb update = Expension worth.

Jan Pve update is plain joke.

Im gonna quit GW2 if the wVw update sucks.

For sure.

Bye.

For everyone else, WvW is actually a lot of fun. Yeah they need to make some changes to keep it fresh but this is really a great end game feature.

I hope in the World vs. World patch they can add a new underwater/series of islands map to put some emphasis on underwater combat because it is a really good combat system but not really used much in World vs. World, it would be really great to see some underwater battles, maybe even make the towers underwater too, that would be great!

moirweyn.9872:

Cactus.2710:

Dee Jay.2460:

What are you referring to? In what terms “make of break”?

Regarding progression, content or balance?

The OP hasn’t thought it out that far, and doesn’t really know. I’ve checked out a bunch of his previous postings and they mostly are just asking for better rewards to make WvW more “interesting”.

Yea – better rewards would be nice since there are no rewards for WvW. Badges? Don’t really need them anymore. Karma, don’t need that anymore. WvW is nothing but a massive zerg running all over the map capping and killing and being culled the whole time.

There is no reason to WvW right now as there is nothing to gain from it. If WvW was rewarding in some way, then sure, it would be worthwhile. Right now – not at all.

So yes, more/better rewards would make it more ‘interesting’, ‘fun’, and ‘rewarding’.

If you HAVE to have rewards to make something more interesting or a forced reason to play a game then maybe you aren’t a gamer. Hopefully this video will open many people’s eyes…

(NSFW)

I agree with the person who said to make the maps larger. My friends and I (who played DAOC) have always agreed that the WvW maps were too small. It makes it really easy to zerg, which has it’s time and place, but zerging is just so strong right now. It’s really hard for the smaller groups.

A lot of people I know are waiting for this WvW patch to make or break the game for them. I’ve burnt myself out on GW2’s PVE content, all I have left for myself is it’s WvW.

Nurse.1085:

I agree with the person who said to make the maps larger. My friends and I (who played DAOC) have always agreed that the WvW maps were too small. It makes it really easy to zerg, which has it’s time and place, but zerging is just so strong right now. It’s really hard for the smaller groups.

A lot of people I know are waiting for this WvW patch to make or break the game for them. I’ve burnt myself out on GW2’s PVE content, all I have left for myself is it’s WvW.

Will making the maps larger actually help to stop the zerg, though? I don’t understand the reasoning, here. Unless more waypoints are placed around the maps, it’ll take just as long for a defensive force to arrive as it will for the attacking zerg- It’ll be even worse because your response time is delayed, even.

This isn’t to say I wouldn’t like larger maps, but I don’t see how it’d solve this particular occurrence.

Sarrs.4831:

Nurse.1085:

I agree with the person who said to make the maps larger. My friends and I (who played DAOC) have always agreed that the WvW maps were too small. It makes it really easy to zerg, which has it’s time and place, but zerging is just so strong right now. It’s really hard for the smaller groups.

A lot of people I know are waiting for this WvW patch to make or break the game for them. I’ve burnt myself out on GW2’s PVE content, all I have left for myself is it’s WvW.

Will making the maps larger actually help to stop the zerg, though? I don’t understand the reasoning, here. Unless more waypoints are placed around the maps, it’ll take just as long for a defensive force to arrive as it will for the attacking zerg- It’ll be even worse because your response time is delayed, even.

This isn’t to say I wouldn’t like larger maps, but I don’t see how it’d solve this particular occurrence.

Because of small maps and waypoints, it is more efficient at the moment for one zerg to zoom around the map to trouble spots. (In addition to other factors favouring zergs such as the Downed State, AoE Limit etc.).

But if the map was larger, and travel more difficult to those outlying points, then there would be a benefit to splitting up the main zerg, and having smaller forces patrolling it. And I would imagine those wanting small group action would gravitate to that zone, while those wanting the zerg could stay in a more concentrated central zone.

Thrumdi.9216:

Sarrs.4831:

Nurse.1085:

I agree with the person who said to make the maps larger. My friends and I (who played DAOC) have always agreed that the WvW maps were too small. It makes it really easy to zerg, which has it’s time and place, but zerging is just so strong right now. It’s really hard for the smaller groups.

A lot of people I know are waiting for this WvW patch to make or break the game for them. I’ve burnt myself out on GW2’s PVE content, all I have left for myself is it’s WvW.

Will making the maps larger actually help to stop the zerg, though? I don’t understand the reasoning, here. Unless more waypoints are placed around the maps, it’ll take just as long for a defensive force to arrive as it will for the attacking zerg- It’ll be even worse because your response time is delayed, even.

This isn’t to say I wouldn’t like larger maps, but I don’t see how it’d solve this particular occurrence.

Because of small maps and waypoints, it is more efficient at the moment for one zerg to zoom around the map to trouble spots. (In addition to other factors favouring zergs such as the Downed State, AoE Limit etc.).

But if the map was larger, and travel more difficult to those outlying points, then there would be a benefit to splitting up the main zerg, and having smaller forces patrolling it. And I would imagine those wanting small group action would gravitate to that zone, while those wanting the zerg could stay in a more concentrated central zone.

Hopefully they change these things. Is it make or break? No, but they definitely need to improve on some things. I’ve been harping on what you mentioned for months now, which I’m guessing you have as well

/brohug DAoCvets

Sarrs.4831:

Nurse.1085:

snip

Will making the maps larger actually help to stop the zerg, though? I don’t understand the reasoning, here. Unless more waypoints are placed around the maps, it’ll take just as long for a defensive force to arrive as it will for the attacking zerg- It’ll be even worse because your response time is delayed, even.

This isn’t to say I wouldn’t like larger maps, but I don’t see how it’d solve this particular occurrence.

It wouldn’t 100% solve anything, but it’d greatly help. Everything is a stone’s throw away from each other. There’s no real thought process about it. You don’t have to split up because everyone can run as a large Zerg and cover the whole map.

I guess my theory if the maps were larger and the objectives were farther would be this :

If “The Zerg” is at Keep A on the North side of the map, and “The Smaller Guys (enemy)” are at Keep B on the South of the map, then “The Zerg” has a decision to make. Do they travel the great distance to defend and hope they make it in time? Do they split their Zerg, thus making them no longer a Zerg? Do they ignore it and continue to capture Keep A? Basically, by focusing all of their numbers on the North Side of the map, it has made them vulnerable on the South side. If they had more “healthy” sized groups that were strategically placed, Keep B could have been saved.

As it is right now, The Zerg can win Keep A and travel to Keep B and squash the little Ants trying to win something for themselves. Regardless of the order, The Zerg will always win. If the maps were larger, smaller groups scattered over the map would be more encouraged rather than feeling like a fruitless effort (since back capping is also a problem).

But meh, that’s just my opinion. It just seems like Zerging/Numbers is the way to go right now, which is sad, because the smaller skirmishes are the most fun imo.

Dynnen.6405:

Thrumdi.9216:

Sarrs.4831:

Nurse.1085:

I agree with the person who said to make the maps larger. My friends and I (who played DAOC) have always agreed that the WvW maps were too small. It makes it really easy to zerg, which has it’s time and place, but zerging is just so strong right now. It’s really hard for the smaller groups.

A lot of people I know are waiting for this WvW patch to make or break the game for them. I’ve burnt myself out on GW2’s PVE content, all I have left for myself is it’s WvW.

Will making the maps larger actually help to stop the zerg, though? I don’t understand the reasoning, here. Unless more waypoints are placed around the maps, it’ll take just as long for a defensive force to arrive as it will for the attacking zerg- It’ll be even worse because your response time is delayed, even.

This isn’t to say I wouldn’t like larger maps, but I don’t see how it’d solve this particular occurrence.

Because of small maps and waypoints, it is more efficient at the moment for one zerg to zoom around the map to trouble spots. (In addition to other factors favouring zergs such as the Downed State, AoE Limit etc.).

But if the map was larger, and travel more difficult to those outlying points, then there would be a benefit to splitting up the main zerg, and having smaller forces patrolling it. And I would imagine those wanting small group action would gravitate to that zone, while those wanting the zerg could stay in a more concentrated central zone.

Hopefully they change these things. Is it make or break? No, but they definitely need to improve on some things. I’ve been harping on what you mentioned for months now, which I’m guessing you have as well

/brohug DAoCvets

Actually, I have to admit I haven’t.

I can remember, just after launch, a few long posts by DAoC vets predicting exactly this problem. At the time, I discounted what they had to say, because in the early days of the game, with lower WvW participation, zerging was not yet a problem. There was still enough space for small group action.

But they were right.

On Tarnished Coast at least, as people shifted from PvE to WvW and we moved up the ranks, the maps got small, and the large zerg guilds got organized. It’s gotten to the point where it’s not worth logging in to look for small group fights. It is more rational to do something else.

Nope. Apart from culling, current WvW is fine with me. Anything else they add in February is just a bonus.

Nope. GW2 is still an awesome game and if you dont like it leave now why wait another month for the patch.

Wvw has issues that can’t b fixed without a major overhaul. The first step is get rid of pve in wvw. This mean mobs and JP. Next everything that is avalible armor and weapon stat wise in pve needs to be available in wvw. Third , the maps r too small. To take a fully upgrade keep with defenders requires 40+ to take it without a 4 hr siege. The number of players is right just need more room to move

The Biggest part of WvW is running with my guild i enjoy the experince and it will not really bother me if the changes are not Dazzling. I play WvW for the social aspect not the drops or karma.

But i will say i am prone to the odd bit of THEIF-RAGE on our TS