Guild Wars 2

Kerithlan.1659:

Persephone.7436:

JaredKincade.9761:

snip

Your server (TC) is likely to lose by quite a bit to BG or SOS

It’s funny because I think JaredKincade would have a lot of trouble losing by quite a bit to BG when he is a member of BG’s populace. He’s not on TC.

Maybe you shouldn’t take pot shots.

I lost track while multi-quoting. :-(

Kerithlan.1659:

CHIPS.6018:

Isaac.6041:

Just let it play out. It will be great to face some new opponents. With the current ratings the matchups are nearly the same every week.

If you are from a top server, your “new” opponents would be run over by you. Unless you really enjoy lop sided fights I don’t see how that’s great for you.

If you are from a low server, your “new” opponents would run you over. Unless you really enjoy getting tortured, I don’t see how that’s great for you.

Lose-lose if you ask me.

Sure, if you’re only looking at the next one or two matches.

In the current environment it’s going to take at least a month for T3 through T8 to settle down. The current environment also makes it statistically improbable for certain servers to move up into positions they belong in, exacerbating the problem.

I will gladly exchange two weeks of bad/awkward match-ups for long-term fun for everyone, and you should too. It’s about every server everywhere getting better and getting into a better place, not just your server.

Win-win if you ask me.

Currently you guys are complaining about the beating your receiving this week and that’s in T2, how do you think T4 down will fair when you have anvil rock fighting SoS, or yaks bend fighting SoR. Not sure how this is a win-win scenario for anyone. In a perfect world two weeks of bad matchups would be great, but in reality its likely gonna be more like a month before the dust settles, and a lot of lost players for anet

Zynthetic.2954:

Isaac.6041:

Lower tiers want this. Like it was mentioned earlier. It’s very difficult with the current ratings to move up a tier.

All Anet needs to do is manually boost all the tier 8 server’s ratings to ~1000, then there is no more tier 8 pitfall. They can go up a tier if the win, or stay where they are if they lose. Problem solved.

Don’t need to kitten up the other 7 tiers when it’s as simple as changing 3 numbers.

The problem is that this would inject an additional ~900 rating into NA and an additional ~750 rating into EU. That might not be important to some people but it’s a nightmare long-term.

Cactus.2710:

Everybody here seems to be either happy or upset with this decision, but I am truly surprised that nobody … including apparently ANet … realizes what having to do a complete reset to zero really means. It’s an overt admission that ANet’s rating system (the modified Glicko-2 calculation) is incapable of responding to changing server dynamics in any meaningful way. ANet has clearly decided that (in their words) “several weeks of volatility while the ratings settle down” represents a quicker path to parity than the rating system would be able to accomplish on its own. That’s pretty pathetic in its own right, but it’s even more incredible that ANet would elect to stick with such a flawed system instead of spending the time and effort to craft a more workable one. I find this aspect of the decision to be the most incomprehensible of all.

+1

Agreed, anything resembling Glico-2 on such a population base (24NA 27EU) will end up in utter stagnation if working correctly and utter failure if not.

relax people…. this is only temporary… yes whichever servers blow out in the next match up will be in upper tiers in the week after that, but the situation will come back to where it is now after a month… we can wait a month can’t we ?

Cactus.2710:

Everybody here seems to be either happy or upset with this decision, but I am truly surprised that nobody … including apparently ANet … realizes what having to do a complete reset to zero really means. It’s an overt admission that ANet’s rating system (the modified Glicko-2 calculation) is incapable of responding to changing server dynamics in any meaningful way. ANet has clearly decided that (in their words) “several weeks of volatility while the ratings settle down” represents a quicker path to parity than the rating system would be able to accomplish on its own. That’s pretty pathetic in its own right, but it’s even more incredible that ANet would elect to stick with such a flawed system instead of spending the time and effort to craft a more workable one. I find this aspect of the decision to be the most incomprehensible of all.

That’s not the case at all. The ratings system was never intended to be able to compensate for massive server transfers. The fact that it failed to compensate for massive server transfers doesn’t make the system a failure in an environment without server transfers at all. That would be like taking an umbrella out in a hail storm and having it torn apart and deciding that umbrellas are completely worthless for normal rainstorms because of it. Anet sticking with the ratings system is just like them purchasing a new umbrella now that they know they’re not dealing with anything more than rain.

If everyone is at 1500 rating, whoever has the biggest wins will go to T1.
Problem is, by default the biggest wins will be against WvW corpses like SBI and IoJ.

So going by the projections of SBI and IoJ’s opponents for next week, it will be a free pass to T1 for Yaks Bend and Ehmry Bay.

Pretty kitten stupid.

azizul.8469:

relax people…. this is only temporary… yes whichever servers blow out in the next match up will be in upper tiers in the week after that, but the situation will come back to where it is now after a month… we can wait a month can’t we ?

Actually if you’re on a server like YB for the past 3 weeks it has been nothing but blow outs against servers with lopsided populations so no its hardly fair to ask them to possibly go through another few weeks of being pummeled.

It seems ludicrous to do this given that next week the tiers will have stabilised with Kaineng finally moving into a bracket which properly reflects their population. This needed to be done a month ago but is redundant now.

If it is going to result in lopsided matches they need to shorten the matches again until the new ratings stablise/

t1 projections

Jade Quarry
Yaks Bend
Emery Bay

yes, this sounds like a good fix anet

azizul.8469:

relax people…. this is only temporary… yes whichever servers blow out in the next match up will be in upper tiers in the week after that, but the situation will come back to where it is now after a month… we can wait a month can’t we ?

But whats the point if we are already almost there?

Also, i highly suspect that alot of the players in favor of this idea are from the lower tiers and have absolutely no clue about the scale of population differences. What lower tiers may call a huge zerg of 10-15 people, the upper tier have that many escorting yaks sometimes.

Do you guys really want to be fighting a server that can field that many numbers? Do you really want to fight guilds that run in 50 man “zergs” , except that they are actually organized with more than 1 such guild in each borderland almost 24/7? Can’t wait to see the flood of tears.

Mif.3471:

If everyone is at 1500 rating, whoever has the biggest wins will go to T1.
Problem is, by default the biggest wins will be against WvW corpses like SBI and IoJ.

So going by the projections of SBI and IoJ’s opponents for next week, it will be a free pass to T1 for Yaks Bend and Ehmry Bay.

Pretty kitten stupid.

Yeah, servers will be all over the place after the first ranked match. I don’t see how this will fix itself faster than not resetting the ratings in the first place. It took 9 weeks for HoD to go from T1 to T7 where they currently are. SBI will already be in T4 next week. This is a situation that will sort itself out. Maybe manually adjust the ratings for the T8 servers, but even without that, IoJ will drop on them and send SF up. ET did the same to DR.

Kerithlan.1659:

CHIPS.6018:

Isaac.6041:

Just let it play out. It will be great to face some new opponents. With the current ratings the matchups are nearly the same every week.

If you are from a top server, your “new” opponents would be run over by you. Unless you really enjoy lop sided fights I don’t see how that’s great for you.

If you are from a low server, your “new” opponents would run you over. Unless you really enjoy getting tortured, I don’t see how that’s great for you.

Lose-lose if you ask me.

Sure, if you’re only looking at the next one or two matches.

In the current environment it’s going to take at least a month for T3 through T8 to settle down. The current environment also makes it statistically improbable for certain servers to move up into positions they belong in, exacerbating the problem.

I will gladly exchange two weeks of bad/awkward match-ups for long-term fun for everyone, and you should too. It’s about every server everywhere getting better and getting into a better place, not just your server.

Win-win if you ask me.

Or how about this? SF owns both FC and ET, so they moved on. Assuming that both FC and ET stays in T8.

In T2, TC got owned. So they dropped to T8.

So next next week, we have TC vs FC vs ET. TC roll over both and move on.

So all good? Nope!

Now FC and ET has spent 2 weeks getting almost no point. Everyone else has moved on ahead of them. And since neither server is that strong, they never recovered.

No matter what system you use, there are always servers that gets screwed over. In this situation, there will be servers who will get screwed over again and again more than twice.

And then look at T1 projections:

Jade Quarry
Yaks Bend
Emery Bay

So JQ already in T1 will get free points. They got boosted so high that it will take weeks before anyone has a chance of catching them.

Cactus.2710:

Everybody here seems to be either happy or upset with this decision, but I am truly surprised that nobody … including apparently ANet … realizes what having to do a complete reset to zero really means. It’s an overt admission that ANet’s rating system (the modified Glicko-2 calculation) is incapable of responding to changing server dynamics in any meaningful way. ANet has clearly decided that (in their words) “several weeks of volatility while the ratings settle down” represents a quicker path to parity than the rating system would be able to accomplish on its own. That’s pretty pathetic in its own right, but it’s even more incredible that ANet would elect to stick with such a flawed system instead of spending the time and effort to craft a more workable one. I find this aspect of the decision to be the most incomprehensible of all.

A simple system of “winner go to next tier” and “loser goes to a lower tier” would work. They can keep the total score of the year as a reference.

Or instead of a total reset, why not just cut ALL total scores by 75%. That would make catching up easier, without destroying multiple tiers.

Or each week set all T8 servers’ total scores to match the lowest team in T7. So each week these servers has a chance to move up to T7.

CHIPS.6018:

A simple system of “winner go to next tier” and “loser goes to a lower tier” would work. They can keep the total score of the year as a reference.

Yep, the perfect solution.

Xinthai.6175:

I can’t be the only one that is amused at the number of SoR players complaining.

I also said it in the other thread.

Xinthai.6175:

I can’t be the only one that is amused at the number of SoR players complaining.

Trust me, you’re not.

CHIPS.6018:

A simple system of “winner go to next tier” and “loser goes to a lower tier” would work…..

yeah… i remember suggesting this system too in another thread. would be the most suitable system to avoid long boring match ups….. you know, different enemy every week would be fun ( except of course tier 1 and tier 8, where 2 servers will stuck there)

CHIPS.6018:

Sorry Habib but this is the absolute WORST time for a server rating reset. Please hear me out.

Look at the predicted T1 to T3 right now. These will be the best matches we have for weeks.

Jade Quarry
Sanctum of Rall
Sea of Sorrows

Blackgate
Tarnished Coast
Fort Aspenwood

Kaineng
Maguuma
Dragonbrand

All 9 of these servers can wvw very well. Many people have waited WEEKS for epic battles like these.

At lower tiers, things are FINALLY settling in. We got weaker servers facing weaker servers. The matches won’t be lopsided anymore. May people have waited WEEKS for the matches to even out.

If you guys reset the rating right now, you would be placing some of these top 9 teams with weak server. These weaker server will be overrun “again”. What we would get is more outcry. More trash talking. None of these are positive for the game.

I strongly recommend that you guys reconsider this decision. Postpone this for a month and see how things go first. Thank you.

I completely agree with this. A lot of these servers have worked very hard to get to/stay in these positions. With the reset, we may get the same match ups next week, but with the glicko scores set to zero, the follow weeks will be a disaster on tiers. 6 months into the game, the servers are pretty much where they’re supposed to be in their respective tiers and even though many guilds switched, there isn’t an “imbalance” between the servers- the big WvW guilds have transferred to the upper tier WvW servers, further defining the tiers and where they should be, and leaving the lower tiers to smaller servers, which is how they liked it in the first place. This reset of scores will change all of that. Not only will it scramble servers in different tiers for the first few months, it undoes all the work and hours spent by the competitive WvW servers. A reset of the system should only occur if a NEW ranking system comes out. With the current state of the glicko, you’re going to see very competitive top WvW servers be pushed down to much lower tiers because their point scores are pretty much evenly matched and their volatility doesnt change much over the week while other T1-3 servers be pitted against non WvW servers and immediately jump to 1st place because they can score a 650+ tick.

TL;DR Resetting of WvW scores is a terrible idea and will be a compete disaster on the WvW tier match ups in the following weeks. Please rethink this Anet.

Edited for spelling

I was hoping they’d fix the bugs in WvW. Get on the forums to find this nonsense instead. Amazing.

Pmetheus.5397:

Please rethink this Anet.

Just curious, but has there ever been a case of Anet reversing something they announced? December culling change was labeled as a trial. Almost all the posts I read said it was worse, but they pushed it on us anyways. I’m really struggling to see where Anet has listened to any feedback from WvW players and changed their plans.

nalenb.1425:

Pmetheus.5397:

Please rethink this Anet.

Just curious, but has there ever been a case of Anet reversing something they announced? December culling change was labeled as a trial. Almost all the posts I read said it was worse, but they pushed it on us anyways. I’m really struggling to see where Anet has listened to any feedback from WvW players and changed their plans.

We can only hope they start listening to their player base. I mean we all saw what happened to that one Star Wars game when they failed to listen to their community and kept making changes… what was the game called again?

Edit: Elaborating a little. GW2 is a community driven game. I don’t WvW because it gets me better loot, in fact loot is terribad, I dont WvW because theres some reward incentive to play (at least not yet), I WvW because I enjoy the competitiveness of it and repping my guild/server. What Anet is doing is basically stripping that away. If Anet continues to make drastic changes like this to their games (I’m talking about things like resets, not new content), and we as players let them do it without voicing our thoughts, soon, you’re going to have a discontent community and lack of trust between the developer and us. Being a F2p game that is driven by its players, Anet should PRIORITIZE the thoughts and ideas from the community, not ignore them. Otherwise, yes, people will start jumping ship.

CHIPS.6018:

A simple system of “winner go to next tier” and “loser goes to a lower tier” would work.

The problem with that system is it encourage servers to play for 2nd place, which defeats the 3 sides system.

Possibly a better system would be:

When a server wins, it goes to the top of it’s bracket.
If it wins from the top of the bracket, it goes up a tier.
When a server goes up a tier, it goes to the middle of the bracket, and bumps the 3rd place server down.

Under such a system. the only way to increase ranking is to win, so servers won’t play for 2nd place, and servers can move up by simply winning 2 weeks in a row, leading to more matchup variety.

CHIPS.6018:

Sorry Habib but this is the absolute WORST time for a server rating reset. Please hear me out.

Look at the predicted T1 to T3 right now. These will be the best matches we have for weeks.

Jade Quarry
Sanctum of Rall
Sea of Sorrows

Blackgate
Tarnished Coast
Fort Aspenwood

Kaineng
Maguuma
Dragonbrand

All 9 of these servers can wvw very well. Many people have waited WEEKS for epic battles like these.

At lower tiers, things are FINALLY settling in. We got weaker servers facing weaker servers. The matches won’t be lopsided anymore. May people have waited WEEKS for the matches to even out.

If you guys reset the rating right now, you would be placing some of these top 9 teams with weak server. These weaker server will be overrun “again”. What we would get is more outcry. More trash talking. None of these are positive for the game.

I strongly recommend that you guys reconsider this decision. Postpone this for a month and see how things go first. Thank you.

I rather have Blackgate than SoS on tier 1. They at least try.

I could care less if they reset or not… at least ANET should come up with something to encourage players to come play wvw NOT the other way around, lots of playtime hrs, gold, effort etc. and for nothing really… give rewards base on time play and participation pls

CHIPS.6018:

Cactus.2710:

Everybody here seems to be either happy or upset with this decision, but I am truly surprised that nobody … including apparently ANet … realizes what having to do a complete reset to zero really means. It’s an overt admission that ANet’s rating system (the modified Glicko-2 calculation) is incapable of responding to changing server dynamics in any meaningful way. ANet has clearly decided that (in their words) “several weeks of volatility while the ratings settle down” represents a quicker path to parity than the rating system would be able to accomplish on its own. That’s pretty pathetic in its own right, but it’s even more incredible that ANet would elect to stick with such a flawed system instead of spending the time and effort to craft a more workable one. I find this aspect of the decision to be the most incomprehensible of all.

A simple system of “winner go to next tier” and “loser goes to a lower tier” would work. They can keep the total score of the year as a reference.

Or instead of a total reset, why not just cut ALL total scores by 75%. That would make catching up easier, without destroying multiple tiers.

Or each week set all T8 servers’ total scores to match the lowest team in T7. So each week these servers has a chance to move up to T7.

When will people stop parroting this awful idea? Winner moves up, loser moves down is a system that guarantees failure, and it’s pointed out every time it’s suggested. I guess I have to just keep this handy so I can copy/paste it every time until people finally stop suggesting it:

Under the “winner moves up, loser moves down” system, you’re essentially guaranteeing that with limited exception, every other week will have a server who deserves to be in a higher tier beating up on one who deserves to be in a lower tier while one server that deserves to be in that tier desperately tries to hold on to their placement.

Not only does that guarantee frequent bad matchups, it changes the strategy in the weeks that have good matchups. If you’re in a tight race for 2nd (because the team in first has pulled out enough of a lead) and you can see the server coming down next week is going to dominate you, isn’t it in your best interest to lose? That way you can drop a tier and beat up on the servers below you instead of holding your rank status and being destroyed by a server that just has better coverage than you.

Sounds like SBI won’t have to wait a month to become dead last.

The problem is that rating reflects both population and WvW success. Until they match servers based on population and then do rankings inside of that sub-category this system is just not going to work well.

I’d love to see a rating reset and and regrouping by population. Perhaps three groups High, Medium, Low WvW population

Edit: I thought of a hack that just might work nicely. Scrap any population categories, just add a bias to the rating when determining matchups that is based on the WvW population. That way servers the suddenly gain or lose WvW more much faster through the ranks. For example, for each person hour in WvW during a week you get X additional rating when calculating next matchups, but your position in that Tier could still be by an unadjusted rating.

This is gonna be hilarious for outmanned servers, especially if they start in T1. 4-6 weeks of WvW shutout.

If ET – HOD – SBI start in T1 imagine the chaos as they plummet down the rankings again.

Persephone.7436:

Pinko.2076:

The biggest winners are all t8 servers actually. The Elo hell of t8 is really mathematically difficult to break, and it was created artificially with transfers. It’s probably their biggest reason for doing this reset, because otherwise, t8 servers wouldn’t see the light of day besides a bandwagon.

I doubt T8 will enjoy the crushing they will receive in the weeks to come. The hardest part of breaking out of an elo hell is winning, something T8 wont be doing alot of while matched with T4/5.

JaredKincade.9761:

True, but it also means that all servers that want to get into Tier 1 will have to earn their way in, not exploit a dead servers uncorrected high rating to shoot into Tier 1.

No it means a ton of PvDoor and more dead servers. It means when Emery bay crushes IOJ and DR again next week they will move from T5 to T1/2. You think they can field even as many as SBI the “dead server” your referencing? I don’t.

Edit: to remove pot shots.

Actually, as it stands SF has demonstrated clear numerical and timezone superiority after its recent transfer boom prolly about a week and a half ago, yet with the current system will have to fight us for what, 2 months+?

SF already belongs in tier higher than 8. When it would, Fergs would probably enjoy great matches with some other server, however ET would get the short stick for probably half a year before it finally has two partners with near identical populations. So yes, rating reset is a great thing for tier 8. Significantly superior servers that get stuck in the tier shouldn’t have to steamroll for months to get out of it.

Whoever suggested pairing 24 hour matches with this new reset has best idea I think though.

[Edited by Moderator: Quote removed]

Interesting, though I don’t think it will change much. It will even matches out in the 3-8 tiers tho, which is fine. But Vizunah and Seafarer’s will still be top servers. They are there now, they will be there after reset, because no one will change server now that it costs money. But all the same I’m interested in the consequenses, so go on!

summary: second season

they should just do 1 day WvWs for a week

Detharos.3157:

Actually, as it stands SF has demonstrated clear numerical and timezone superiority after its recent transfer boom prolly about a week and a half ago, yet with the current system will have to fight us for what, 2 months+(I dunno the system well, but the gap seems pretty massive so you tell me.)? I think that may even be assuming it blows out, which it doesn’t have enough of a population advantage over us to do.

My quick envelope math says (at the current week’s margin) it would have taken around 8 weeks assuming none of the free falling servers made it down to T7. If any of those servers fell that far, that would have made it take significantly longer unless that free fall server managed to be ridiculously blown out in T7.

We are having a pretty nice fight this week, its a shame to see next week might be against a server like Vizunah since it will kill the WvW vibe currently on our server…

Pmetheus.5397:

Not only will it scramble servers in different tiers for the first few months, it undoes all the work and hours spent by the competitive WvW servers. A reset of the system should only occur if a NEW ranking system comes out. With the current state of the glicko, you’re going to see very competitive top WvW servers be pushed down to much lower tiers because their point scores are pretty much evenly matched and their volatility doesnt change much over the week while other T1-3 servers be pitted against non WvW servers and immediately jump to 1st place because they can score a 650+ tick.

TL;DR Resetting of WvW scores is a terrible idea and will be a compete disaster on the WvW tier match ups in the following weeks. Please rethink this Anet.

Edited for spelling

I disagree with you very much. Yes it will throw things into chaos for a while, but with the massive amount of transfers that have happened it is required. It doesn’t undue all the hard work of people because a lot of the servers are a bunch of guilds that transferred to them. These people didn’t put in tons of hard work to get to where they are at, They flooded a server with a massive population which made them shoot up through the ranks. That is not hard work. That is jumping on a bandwagon for easy wins. Yes when you get to the point where you are against semi evenly populated servers things level out but that wasn’t a bunch of hard work. It was a very simple way that took no work really at all. I know there are a few servers that are the exception to this and they received their bandwagons long ago but it was till the same thing. Not work but transfers that made them reach the high tier they are in (or stay in it). This is why it needs reset. All the free transfers since the game has launched has made it so the elo does not represent the hard work of the server at all. Anyone or guild who wanted to be in a higher rank just transferred to it or bandwagoned to a low rank sever so they could have cheesy wins till they got up to where they should be.

Its time to do these by hand.

Arenanet has more information available to them than they are plugging into the formula. Thus, any formula will fail because it has incomplete information.

Namely, which servers have had some organized guilds coming in, which have had them going out.

So get rid of the whole notion of “tiers” for a few weeks and make the best possible matchups that a fully informed team of humans (and their formuli) can make. It will be better than a formula using incomplete information. Then fall back to a formula once the dust has settled a bit more.

Dude, they should have done a sotlft reset not a hard one. Those who suffered to reach T1- T2 and now they reset this and have to fight agains better servers could go down 1 or 2 tiers just because of the reset… I don’t like that a server that wins this week of T8 could play agains a T1 but well, after some weeks everything should stabilize.

Syeria.4812:

Cactus.2710:

Everybody here seems to be either happy or upset with this decision, but I am truly surprised that nobody … including apparently ANet … realizes what having to do a complete reset to zero really means. It’s an overt admission that ANet’s rating system (the modified Glicko-2 calculation) is incapable of responding to changing server dynamics in any meaningful way. ANet has clearly decided that (in their words) “several weeks of volatility while the ratings settle down” represents a quicker path to parity than the rating system would be able to accomplish on its own. That’s pretty pathetic in its own right, but it’s even more incredible that ANet would elect to stick with such a flawed system instead of spending the time and effort to craft a more workable one. I find this aspect of the decision to be the most incomprehensible of all.

That’s not the case at all. The ratings system was never intended to be able to compensate for massive server transfers. The fact that it failed to compensate for massive server transfers doesn’t make the system a failure in an environment without server transfers at all. That would be like taking an umbrella out in a hail storm and having it torn apart and deciding that umbrellas are completely worthless for normal rainstorms because of it. Anet sticking with the ratings system is just like them purchasing a new umbrella now that they know they’re not dealing with anything more than rain.

I guess you and I have a differing view of how stable server WvW the populations will be going forward. Have you checked to see how low the cost per person is to transfer to a low population server? And those are the ones that will cause the most disruption.

At least we agree that the Glicko-2 system was never designed to handle such situations, but varying server populations are only part of the problem. The Glicko-2 system was designed to be used in situations where virtually ALL participants competed against each other more or less equally often. It totally loses contact with large parts of the player base when used in a tiered system. For example, let’s say that all tiers are so well balanced that the scores in any of the tiers are almost equal each and every week. The servers in Tier 6 could be learning/progressing fast enough that they actually become better than any of the servers in Tier 5, but the system will never upgrade any of them because there is no opportunity for the comparison that would show it. I’ll say again … the Glicko-2 system was never intended to be used in a tiered environment.

Here’s another flaw in ANet’s implementation. The Glicko-2 system was only designed for 1v1 play, so ANet tries to get around that in a three team enironment by assuming that A’s score can be independently compared with B’s score, B with C, and A with C. That isn’t really the case, though, and whoever at ANet thought it could is an idiot. There are all sorts of dynamics during the week that affect, for example, what B versus C would look like if A wasn’t in the picture. B and C might decide to ally themselves against A, or A might decide to focus more heavily on B because they perceive C to be a lesser threat. If A and B are being rolled by C, the active WvW population of A and B drops off dramatically the rest of the week and whatever score they end up with is not a valid representation of how they might have looked had they faced only each other.

ANet had their head up their kitten when they chose Glicko-2 for WvW, and they still have their head up their kitten for perpetuating that mistake.

Its amazing to me that the biggest complainers of this move is SOR, when they are the ones exploiting the rating to jump straight into near 1st position without ever having to face a tier 1 server. Ah, well actually it doesn’t amaze me at all.

The SOR jump in rating is the reason they are reseting the points. They are out of whack and the system needs tuning, the result of SoR gaining so much rating in three weeks is evidence of this. BG earned its T1 spot after 8 weeks of hard hard week by week fighting to get to where we did. SoR now has the chance to do the same and earn their T1 spot instead of rocketing by pvdooring a dead server with a high rating.

BG did it, are you afraid to put in the work to earn it? You should be pleased, if you do get to Tier 1, it will be because you earned it, not because your killing siege raiser over and over and over again.

I completely agree with the reset 100%. Now the servers that deserve to be in T1 will have to work back up to it. Here comes GW2: W3 Season II!

Whats up with the original plan of two weeks matches?

MikeFerguson.8921:

Here’s why we think this is a good thing.

As Habib alluded to in his post, we are also revising the math behind the ratings formula. Habib will be explaining the math in a later post, but for now, I can give everyone a glimpse into why we are updating the rating formula and resetting the ratings.

Over the last couple of months we’ve seen that when worlds experience dramatic changes in their ability to field a consistent fighting force for whatever reason, it can take quite a while for them to work their way through the ratings until they end up in a match that suits them better. In a lot of cases, some worlds took multiple matches to work their way through a single tier even after a series of blowouts. We really dont like that, so one of the goals for updating the math behind the ratings is to try and reduce how often we experience the repeated blowouts that can come from that sort of situation and get those teams through the rankings quicker.

We also expect that the large population changes that impacted a number of worlds and helped create a number of those type of blowouts should be much less common now that we are well past the launch period and free transfers are no longer available.

So, not only does world choice have quite a bit more meaning now that paid transfers are online, we also want to adjust how the ratings are calculated. If we redo the calculations involved with the ratings, then it’s much better to just reset the ratings and let the new formula do it’s thing instead of trying to carry the old data over from the old system and have those numbers pollute the new ratings.

In essence this gives every world a chance to start fresh now that everyone is on their ‘real’ team and will help protect against worlds in a state of flux being involved in consecutive blowouts for weeks on end in the future. For us, that means it is actually the perfect time to update the rating system and address some of the issues we’ve noticed with it since launch then reset the ratings.

If it helps, think of the last few months as the preseason games that determined the initial seedings for the season opener (to use a really generic sports metaphor that is in no way indicative of future plans).

Finally, matches are going to remain a week long. We feel that the 24 hour matches are not representative of what we consider ‘standard’ gameplay, and actually create a lot of incorrect data in the system because people play the game much differently when it’s a 24 hour match compared to a 7 day one.

I know many of you are concerned about what all this means and it might seem scary from the outside, but from our perspective this really is a great time to reset the ratings and improve how the math behind all of this works so we can benefit from more competitive matches in the future.

Hopefully this helps some of you feel a little better about why we’re doing this. We really think this is going to be better for the game in the long run, even if it may be a bit bumpy until we have a couple matches completed post-reset.

Changing the math doesn’t address either of the two issues I raised in the post just before yours … unless by changing the math you mean changing the rating system itself. If all you do is alter the parameters you’ve been using in the Glicko-2 system you won’t have fixed anything. Three well-matched servers in the same tier will NEVER break out of that tier unless something dramatic happens in the tier above or below them to kick on of them out, and in the “ideal” case where all tiers are perfectly balanced matches each week there will be no movement at all even if servers in lower tiers become more proficient (or even more populated) than servers in upper tiers.

You need to change the system, not just the math.

this is going to be most interesting for SFR… it’s population has always been well below the weight it punches at in WvW.
What would be really nice is to see some sort of scoring system that rewards fighting on an outmanned map. Most of the time when we fight VS we are vastly outnumbered but can often hold our own. It would be nice to see some sort of recognition for that, so the points become based on skill rather than how many numbers you can pump onto the server during the middle of the night.

here is an idea… why not make the points equate somehow to the number of opponents on the map… so you score less if there are fewer opponents to fight and score more if there are greater numbers of opponents. That would equate to servers being placed according to player skill rather than making it a numbers game.

While I am at good ideas… any chance of making the Jumping Puzzles in WvW only accessible after you complete 10 WvW events in one week? Nothing more annoying than ques to enter WvW and finding a JP full of people – it would also add value to the number of opponents fighting if you decide to use that idea for scoring.

… it would also lessen the power of night capping which warps the true nature of the server ladder

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

here is an idea… why not make the points equate somehow to the number of opponents on the map… so you score less if there are fewer opponents to fight and score more if there are greater numbers of opponents. That would equate to servers being placed according to player skill rather than making it a numbers game.

I don’t think devaluating the point incoming of peoples playing during your night time (when maybe it’s their day or playing time) is fair.

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

… it would also lessen the power of night capping which warps the true nature of the server ladder

I don’t see how a battle that lasts for 168 hours with participants from 24+ time zones cares about day or night. I’d get into the philosophy of ‘what is night?’ in such a conflict but it’d be pretty pointless.

Reading Mike’s response on Habib’s post has now convinced me that these people have absolutely no idea how their game plays.

I can see the reasoning behind this.
However I think resetting all the ratings to allow the system to play back out, will cause complete weeks of some servers dominating others after the Feb 1st matches.
(More so then the matches right now that are blow out, due to server ranks having to be reworked in the system again.)

If resetting all of the ratings to 0.
I suggest after the Feb 1st match, Arena Net implements 24hours matches for a week.

What’s going to happen on the first is everyone’s point hit 0.
All close matches will gain less ratings, while low tier blow out matches will gain more.
Followed by lesser populated worlds who blew out a lower tier match, being paired against higher tier/populated servers who didn’t blow out matches. (Aka Lopsided matches)

It will happen for a while, and there will probably be many QQ threads posted.