Guild Wars 2

They should make a week with daily matchups.

Tier one in EU is balanced, some servers on lower tiers are making lots of points. What is gonna happen?…..

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Sweet – time for some WvW map completion. JQ is going to give some lowly tier 8 servers a 200,000 point thrashing.

Only 200,000? :P

Would be great if Habib could confirm whether the match length will remain as 1 week or be reduced for the sake of getting this done quickly.

This reset is needed. The ratings have been screwed since day 1 with all the bandwagoneer’s jumping to whatever place is doing great. I hope some serious WvW guilds change servers again after this to all play together and we some real T1 battles without PUG’s

Love this. Thank you!

Any news on our naughty quaggans?

It seems that a lot of people here are missing a key part of the announcement:

Habib Loew.6239:

Additionally, we’re taking advantage of the reset to revisit some of the math behind the ratings. I’ll have more to post on that once we’ve crunched some numbers and made some decisions.

Honestly, people have no clue as to how this will affect future ratings so why doesn’t everyone just wait for the update as to how this will play out before crying.

Hey im frmo Elona,
we will fight next matchup against Jade Sea and Kodash. What if we completely lose and will not a single point? will we be the the last on the ranking or the las on the the tier for the next matchup?

Hmmm…

New ratings math will be based on population and it’s effectiveness in battle.

akanibbles.6237:

Hmmm…

New ratings math will be based on population and it’s effectiveness in battle.

Rating based on population and effectiveness? All that will do is create elitists. You know, stuff like “Underleveled noobs get out of my map you suck you are losing us points!”

In the long run, this is an appropriate and responsible thing to do, and it’s going to result in a more accurate score for each server.

I’m hoping the current scores are at least used to set up the first set of matches, and you aren’t going to alpha-sort us or do this randomly. Since you didn’t clarify that in the first post, I think that’s what’s worrying a lot of people.

I don’t really get this change, looking at next weeks match-ups in EU it looks to be balancing itself out already. This change is going to cause major headaches again for some of the lower tier servers.

Even on the NA match-ups other than a few unbalanced matches they are starting to even out also. I reckon in 2-3 weeks everything should be near enough at its final spot, I cant imagine that doing a points reset will move this along any quicker than its already going. Its just going to lengthen the headache for those lower tier servers as everything try’s to readjust itself again.

Bad decision.

Next week, you will already have the top 9 servers on the NA side occupying the top 3 tiers. A few dead servers will be in the mid tiers, but will be where they belong in a month.

By resetting the ratings, servers in balanced matches will end up in mid tiers while servers that win blowouts will be in top tiers. Looking at the projected matches for next week, Yak’s Bend and Ehmry Bay will be winning their matches by blowouts. Sorrow’s Furnace may as well. They will be sent to the top tiers where they obviously don’t belong. It will take longer to fix this than to allow the rating system to fix it naturally.

I’m not convinced it will level out any faster than it is already (from a NA server point of view).

Done badly… this may even drag out unbalanced matchups.

This could be bad.
Next week we might finally make it to T5 again, but we will be facing Gunnars hold.
Most likely we will loose big there and get stomped back to T9 or T8 for the week after.

The ratings should not all be reset to 1500.
Use increments of 50 points / tier or something similar.
T1 starting at 1700 points, T2 1650 and so on
This would eliminate the possibility of T1 servers ending up in a very low tier and mess up the tiers for months. Imagine next week, SFR playing against Vabbi and Vizu playing against WSR, think of the damage that will do and how those servers will be bored for weeks untill they reach their tier again.

Guilds have already moved to stable communities

Why do you have to shuffle the ranks when 1/2 of the bottom tiers are finally settling. It’s hard enough for servers to get stomped Without no reward before our “glorified” update. I’ll just become a nightmare especially for servers that have locked competition. At the end result, I’ll just create more needless tension and trouble. If this becomes a week long thing, I can definitely see smaller guild server communities completely giving up for the month, right when reward updates are coming out.

I guess killing server motivation is the way to go!

I assume this is to get IoJ / SBI down near the bottom faster and move cd a couple of notches potentially as well. At the same time, if you look at tier 8 points gap it’s almost impossible for them to jump out of that hole on current Glicko system.

Habib you said the team was looking into modifying the Glicko potentially, please consider the following idea for points modification.

Keep the Glicko but slightly modify to the following.
First always = positive points
Third always = negative points
Second = the equalizer (neutralizes neg or pos increase in points of group)
Obviously if your rating was 200 points above another team you would only get a small increase if you won but you still are better and should go up in points.

I found myself on IoJ where in tier 2 we got slaughtered week in week out and BG won every single week. We didnt belong there and they deserved their shot at the title but Glicko held them back. If we had a modified Glicko than a team that wins 7 weeks in a row would get that shot they deserve. Just make it so a max of 100 points can be won during a matchup maximum to prevent servers jumping tiers to often.

Edit: spelling errors

This doesn’t make sense.

As you said the servers are pretty stable population wise. Do you have information to suggest there was any big population moves to more than one or two servers to justify a reset?

The only way I see this playing out it is we are going to have 2 months of very unbalanced WvW as things resettle back to roughly the current rankings. Reading some of this thread I already see T1/2 servers talking about how they are excited to get WvW map completion done on alts.

Will you go back to shorter matches if not daily matchups?

Tonight was the first time i have ever questioned the long term viability of this game. It took us a few minutes in our guild’s vent to realize just how terrible this idea was and yet professional game developers are actually going to go through with this? And on top of that a major change such as this is being implemented with no player feedback.

Games will simply not survive in the long run when they implement huge bone headed changes without any player feedback.

Simply put, a system that has a chance of placing sanctum of rall in tier 8 is clearly not going to work out well. I hope that the developers at least realized to add in some kind of rating coefficient to smooth out relative changes based on tiers or something. If not then lol.

o hai SOR a week in tier 1 seems good enough.

Aurust.8961:

Tonight was the first time i have ever questioned the long term viability of this game. It took us a few minutes in our guild’s vent to realize just how terrible this idea was and yet professional game developers are actually going to go through with this? And on top of that a major change such as this is being implemented with no player feedback.

Games will simply not survive in the long run when they implement huge bone headed changes without any player feedback.

Simply put, a system that has a chance of placing sanctum of rall in tier 8 is clearly not going to work out well. I hope that the developers at least realized to add in some kind of rating coefficient to smooth out relative changes based on tiers or something. If not then lol.

It doesn’t make any sense to my guild neither. Yes for weeks there are low tier server complaining that Maguuma and Kaineng were running over them. At that point, it might have made some sense to put out a rating reset, specially before the end of free transfers to prevent mass transfers.

Now all that damage has already been done. Servers are finally settling down. Top tier servers already got their transfers and are already in the top 3 tiers. Low level servers are happy that those top servers has move on, so now they can finally enjoy some low level wvw.

And now Anet announced a rating reset.

Let’s think about this.

Low level servers do not want this. Sure it seems they got everything to gain and nothing to lose. But in reality they know very well that this means they would be overrun by high level servers once again. The weeks of “torture” that they had to endure though will be BACK again.

High level servers do not want this. They got everything to lose, and nothing to gain. Not to mention over-runing low level servers is no fun for anyone.

The only people that would love this are those in T8 who wanted their server to be in T1 for JUST one week. Its a very small minority. All the rest of the people will be very mad and disappointed.

The only thing honestly holding WvW and its active users is the Server rep and pride.

This is pretty much taking that only reward and blending it down into a " demoralize, get your guild to transfer so you can take advantage of the gems while we profit, at the same time not addressing to the main problems wvw has that is CONTENT*

Heck, all we need is a pretty shiny skin that’s only attainable through wvw, a few chests here and there for 1-3 hours of bashing on a keep, and hey maybee a way to recognize what guild even owns something.

Yet all we get is Lagg-instakill-karka related updates that just get blundered. A ploy to dump buffering updates to find more ways to not listen to the community’s input and kill off all the player base.

Allot of harm is happening to the longevity of Gw2…err i mean..Lagwars , unrewarding no real endgame content for hardcore players 2.

I bet you this won’t even be read by the devs, or be automated with infractions. Seems like the commonality!

-Cheers

You guys honestly out of you mind?
Next week you’ll see matches that can’t be balanced more than they will be then. And now you decide to reste everything? Given the nature of T1 matches, SoS, JQ and SoR/BG will be hammering doors for weeks on end after that match ends, since none will gain a lot of rating.

I even have map completion at 100% so i can’t do that either during those weeks….:-(

Aurust.8961:

Tonight was the first time i have ever questioned the long term viability of this game. It took us a few minutes in our guild’s vent to realize just how terrible this idea was and yet professional game developers are actually going to go through with this? And on top of that a major change such as this is being implemented with no player feedback.

Games will simply not survive in the long run when they implement huge bone headed changes without any player feedback.

Simply put, a system that has a chance of placing sanctum of rall in tier 8 is clearly not going to work out well. I hope that the developers at least realized to add in some kind of rating coefficient to smooth out relative changes based on tiers or something. If not then lol.

It doesn’t make any sense to my guild neither. Yes for weeks there are low tier server complaining that Maguuma and Kaineng were running over them. At that point, it might have made some sense to put out a rating reset, specially before the end of free transfers.

Now all that damage has already been done. Servers are finally settling down. Top tier servers already got their transfers and are already in the top 3 tiers. Low level servers are happy that those top servers has move on, so now they can finally enjoy some low level wvw.

And now Anet announced a rating reset.

Let’s think about this.

Low level servers do not want this. Sure it seems they got everything to gain and nothing to lose. But in reality they know very well that this means they would be overrun by high level servers once again. The weeks of “torture” that they had to endure though will be BACK again.

High level servers do not want this. They got everything to lose, and nothing to gain. Not to mention over-runing low level servers is no fun for anyone.

The only people that would love this are those in T8 who wanted their server to be in T1 for JUST one week. Its a very small minority. All the rest of the people will be very mad and disappointed.

This is unbelievably stupid. Kaineng is almost already up to where they should be next week Stombluff is falling fast, things are getting worked out on their own. This will totally screw up the matchups for months to come, allowing tier 8 servers to be tier 1 and super strong servers to be in low tiers. Makes absolutely no sense at all.

Doomdesire.9365:

I don’t agree with this decision. So much hard blood and sweat put into our server’s efforts. We were going to T1 next week.

No. You’re facing JQ and SoS next week because you played against 2 lower population/weaker servers (no offense TC and SBI) for 2 weeks and capitalized on the ratings system as it stands today. Blackgate spent the better part of 10+ weeks winning their bracket, but didn’t finally move into T1 until a dwindling SBI server pop made them easy to unseat. It COULD feasibly be argued that both BG and SoR earned their way into T1 based on server transfers alone. Surely you can see the flaw in that system.

Either way, there really are no official tiers as of Friday @ reset which is fine by me.The math behind the ratings system needs a major overhaul. I feel like I’m back in college, dealing with getting a C one semester, only to see my GPA dragged down so low that it took 4 semesters (2 YEARS) of straight A’s to bring it back up. That isn’t very balanced to me.

Interesting decision, A-Net.

Next week should be daily matchup week if not its just gonna be laughable.

Isaac.6041:

Lower tiers want this. Like it was mentioned earlier. It’s very difficult with the current ratings to move up a tier.

Higher tier servers have nothing to worry about really. If they really deserve to be in tier 1 or 2 then they will move back up fast.

Lower tiers don’t want this, if they do good in their current match they will end up in T1, only to have many weeks of being steamrolled.

The tier they play in isn’t really of anyone’s concern, except maybe the top 2 tiers cause they got a shot at T1. For the rest people want even matches that are fun.
You could ask anyone in T3-T9 , hey do you want a free promotion to T1 ?
9/10 will say no.

+1 to daily matchups next week.

So you’re ending free transfers to make the matches more even… but you’re also resetting the rankings which (you admit) will make the matches less even.

That sounds like precisely the type of solution you guys would come up with.

Xaveron.3784:

That sounds like precisely the type of solution you guys would come up with.

I laughed hard when I read that because it is so true.

Here’s what’s going to happen to the smaller servers everyone is worried about:

Week 1: have a good match, gain 30-50 points, end up in T2-T3 the next week
Week 2: have a bad match, lose 50-100 points, end up in T6-T8 the next week
Week 3: have a good match

If everyone is at 1500 points to start, then losing 100+ points in a single match-up (as we’ve seen happen multiple times the past few weeks already) is going to stabilize things rapidly. We’re talking one, maybe two poor matches.

This isn’t the end of the world. Don’t sensationalize it. I’m fine with this decision.

Xaveron.3784:

So you’re ending free transfers to make the matches more even… but you’re also resetting the rankings which (you admit) will make the matches less even.

That sounds like precisely the type of solution you guys would come up with.

perfect

Kerithlan.1659:

Here’s what’s going to happen to the smaller servers everyone is worried about:

Week 1: have a good match, gain 30-50 points, end up in T2-T3 the next week
Week 2: have a bad match, lose 50-100 points, end up in T6-T8 the next week
Week 3: have a good match

If everyone is at 1500 points to start, then losing 100+ points in a single match-up (as we’ve seen happen multiple times the past few weeks already) is going to stabilize things rapidly. We’re talking one, maybe two poor matches.

This isn’t the end of the world. Don’t sensationalize it. I’m fine with this decision.

one scenario though you might wanna think about, say BG dominates T2 this week and you guys fall from t2 to say t4, being that SoR is untested in T1 we lose and fall to T4. Not to sell you guys short but looking at the match up right now SoR will demolish you guys again forcing you to stay in t4 or fall even further down the tiers, that would force you guys to start from the beginning. Def. not something I personally wanna see happen which is why this idea could backfire very very badly for anet.

The ironic thing about this is whole idea is that finally things are balancing out and they are resetting it.

Isaac.6041:

Just let it play out. It will be great to face some new opponents. With the current ratings the matchups are nearly the same every week.

Balanced matchups > facing new servers. This will cause great imbalances for a long time.

Lot’s of over reacting here. Read it again

We expect several weeks of volatility while the ratings settle down but we believe that it will ultimately yield a more correct result more quickly than letting the current ratings persist.

You have had several servers in particular reaping huge glicko gains, in a sense manipulating the scoring system, over the last month. Clean slate for everyone was needed.

Hoots.9564:

Kerithlan.1659:

Here’s what’s going to happen to the smaller servers everyone is worried about:

Week 1: have a good match, gain 30-50 points, end up in T2-T3 the next week
Week 2: have a bad match, lose 50-100 points, end up in T6-T8 the next week
Week 3: have a good match

If everyone is at 1500 points to start, then losing 100+ points in a single match-up (as we’ve seen happen multiple times the past few weeks already) is going to stabilize things rapidly. We’re talking one, maybe two poor matches.

This isn’t the end of the world. Don’t sensationalize it. I’m fine with this decision.

one scenario though you might wanna think about, say BG dominates T2 this week and you guys fall from t2 to say t4, being that SoR is untested in T1 we lose and fall to T4. Not to sell you guys short but looking at the match up right now SoR will demolish you guys again forcing you to stay in t4 or fall even further down the tiers, that would force you guys to start from the beginning. Def. not something I personally wanna see happen which is why this idea could backfire very very badly for anet.

But with the current shifts in rating it is clear that the smaller servers are much smaller than the bigger ones, to the extent that even servers like Maguuma that aren’t even that big are able to devour rating and skip tiers.

If we end up in T6 then T6 has a bad match and we go to T3-T4 the next week. It is not a big deal.

Isaac.6041:

Just let it play out. It will be great to face some new opponents. With the current ratings the matchups are nearly the same every week.

Agreed…. Let JQ face HoD and Anvil Rock. Will be a blast for all 3 servers.

/sarcasm

To all the people complaining about how “matchups are good now, why do this?”

The current matchups for next week will be good for the top 3 tiers. However, the points for servers across the board are completely messed up beyond repair. Look at T8, SF is nearly doubling up on ET and FC, but even by outscoring the other two servers combined, SF will only make up 12% of the difference between their current rating and moving up a tier. As IoJ and SBI continue to fall, it will only make the score differential there worse.

Similarly you have T6 to T7. In T6, NSP has placed 3rd for 6 weeks in a row, often by a large margin. But they still will not fall to T7 by the end of the week. In fact, depending upon how IoJ and SBI’s fall would continue, they might not ever drop out of T6, despite probably belonging in T7.

Now on top of all that, there’s another interesting scenario that would likely play out if rankings aren’t reset. CD-YB-SBI will be a matchup next week (if current scores hold) in T4. It’s entirely plausible that EB is a “better” server than any of those three. But because of the score gaps and freefalling servers, EB might never be able to break into T4. In fact, in two weeks a matchup of EB-DR-BP in T5 might feature 3 servers who could each be better than any T4 server would likely end with a small enough margin of victory that an even matchup in T4 would ensure no movement occurred. Essentially, if any two tiers settle into even matchups, mobility through those two servers would be made essentially impossible.

Will resetting the matchups lead to a few weeks of awful play? Absolutely, and no one is contesting that fact. Hopefully Anet will switch to 48 hour matchups to resolve the standings as quickly as possible and limit the impact. But the long term benefits of resetting the rankings grossly outweigh the costs. In fact, looking at the long run for the game, it might be best for Anet to reset the rankings on a regular schedule (maybe annually, assuming they put in shortened matchups until scores stabilize).

I applaud the rating reset and I STRONGLY encourage Anet to give us several weeks of 24 hour matches.. other wise they will have endure more posts pointing out how much fun we are not having <smiles>

Thanks!

sostronk.8167:

Could be a wierd one for SOS. We have had a rough week in Tier 1. May finish in 2nd or probably 3rd and then end up in a mid tier where we would dominate lower pop servers. I don’t see this being reasonable.

Shouldnt be a problem. Next weeks matchup is still listed by the current rankings. At worst we would fall down to be matched up with 2 of the T2 servers. If we stomp them we’d end up gaining rank anyway under the reset.

Either way a number of servers will end up in blowout matches for a week or two while rankings settle. if we(SoS) still deserve to be in T1 well end up back there by the time everything is said and done.

I like how even though 90 % of the post here are against it, it’s still going to happen without a post saying we considered what you have said but for the greater good of the future, it will still happen

Isaac.6041:

Just let it play out. It will be great to face some new opponents. With the current ratings the matchups are nearly the same every week.

If you are from a top server, your “new” opponents would be run over by you. Unless you really enjoy lop sided fights I don’t see how that’s great for you.

If you are from a low server, your “new” opponents would run you over. Unless you really enjoy getting tortured, I don’t see how that’s great for you.

Lose-lose if you ask me.

Pinko.2076:

The biggest winners are all t8 servers actually. The Elo hell of t8 is really mathematically difficult to break, and it was created artificially with transfers. It’s probably their biggest reason for doing this reset, because otherwise, t8 servers wouldn’t see the light of day besides a bandwagon.

I doubt T8 will enjoy the crushing they will receive in the weeks to come. The hardest part of breaking out of an elo hell is winning, something T8 wont be doing alot of while matched with T4/5.

JaredKincade.9761:

True, but it also means that all servers that want to get into Tier 1 will have to earn their way in, not exploit a dead servers uncorrected high rating to shoot into Tier 1.

No it means a ton of PvDoor and more dead servers. It means when Emery bay crushes IOJ and DR again next week they will move from T5 to T1/2. You think they can field even as many as SBI the “dead server” your referencing? I don’t.

Edit: to remove pot shots.

[Edited by Moderator: Quote removed]

CHIPS.6018:

Isaac.6041:

Just let it play out. It will be great to face some new opponents. With the current ratings the matchups are nearly the same every week.

If you are from a top server, your “new” opponents would be run over by you. Unless you really enjoy lop sided fights I don’t see how that’s great for you.

If you are from a low server, your “new” opponents would run you over. Unless you really enjoy getting tortured, I don’t see how that’s great for you.

Lose-lose if you ask me.

Sure, if you’re only looking at the next one or two matches.

In the current environment it’s going to take at least a month for T3 through T8 to settle down. The current environment also makes it statistically improbable for certain servers to move up into positions they belong in, exacerbating the problem.

I will gladly exchange two weeks of bad/awkward match-ups for long-term fun for everyone, and you should too. It’s about every server everywhere getting better and getting into a better place, not just your server.

Win-win if you ask me.

Persephone.7436:

JaredKincade.9761:

snip

Your server (TC) is likely to lose by quite a bit to BG or SOS

It’s funny because I think JaredKincade would have a lot of trouble losing by quite a bit to BG when he is a member of BG’s populace. He’s not on TC.

Maybe you shouldn’t take pot shots.

This is how Anet tell us they don’t mind wvw

Habib Loew.6239:

we saw large population changes as people settled in to their home servers. This means that the WvW teams being fielded by many of the worlds are now dramatically different.

First, kudos, glad those other servers dont have to go through weeks of torture
Second, where is the apology to ET, HoD, and other servers that were MORE effected than the current ones are (IoJ maybe almost as bad), also asked for a reset and got nothing but 15 weeks of losses including 10 weeks of complete spawn campings

Everybody here seems to be either happy or upset with this decision, but I am truly surprised that nobody … including apparently ANet … realizes what having to do a complete reset to zero really means. It’s an overt admission that ANet’s rating system (the modified Glicko-2 calculation) is incapable of responding to changing server dynamics in any meaningful way. ANet has clearly decided that (in their words) “several weeks of volatility while the ratings settle down” represents a quicker path to parity than the rating system would be able to accomplish on its own. That’s pretty pathetic in its own right, but it’s even more incredible that ANet would elect to stick with such a flawed system instead of spending the time and effort to craft a more workable one. I find this aspect of the decision to be the most incomprehensible of all.

Isaac.6041:

Lower tiers want this. Like it was mentioned earlier. It’s very difficult with the current ratings to move up a tier.

All Anet needs to do is manually boost all the tier 8 server’s ratings to ~1000, then there is no more tier 8 pitfall. They can go up a tier if they win, or stay where they are if they lose. Problem solved.

Don’t need to kitten up the other 7 tiers when it’s as simple as changing 3 numbers.