Guild Wars 2

To be honest AC’s do way to much damage now to players however I feel they should also do less damage the farther they go out like the mesmer GS for example. The farther out they shoot the less “arrows” hit their targets and do less damage.

When you are outnumbered you will lose soon or late. The Ac problem is the dps and the amount of AC people put on keeps and even open battle. We play in t2 eu right now. I am commander from SFR. And what we face everyday is 10 ac inner hills/bay you know what ammount of dps is this? if you try with less than 50 you just cant sustain to get to the wall not even take it down. Siege even with 50% less dps just melt from so many Ac. So I agree they may buff gate and walls but nerf the AC dps to players. It is not fun when before open battle your enemy drop 3-4 ac just to fight in open field ?!?!?!!? Are we playing wvw or AC vs AC ?

Tommyknocker.6089:

Caedmon.6798:

Exactly..to counter them,to hold them off for a bit.Not to wipe entire zergs with pressing 1 , 2 ,3,with only 2 people manning ac’s.Also im not even talking about the range,thats ok with me,it’s the damage that needs to be looked at and if not changed,then make it so that ac’s cost more supps to be build,they are far to cheap.

Well if your zerg is in anyway competent, they will think ahead and have supply. There is no rule written in stone that says one MUST head bang the gates in order to enter the structure. If your zerg is carrying supply is is a simple matter to set up a few catapults and an AC to protect them and blast a wall into dust and THEN entering. Seriously If all you want to do is follow a zerg mindlessly then maybe you deserve to be wiped by a few guys in AC’s.

Did you even read my post ? Because your reply doesn’t make sense whatsoever to what i said.

Caedmon.6798:

Tommyknocker.6089:

Caedmon.6798:

Exactly..to counter them,to hold them off for a bit.Not to wipe entire zergs with pressing 1 , 2 ,3,with only 2 people manning ac’s.Also im not even talking about the range,thats ok with me,it’s the damage that needs to be looked at and if not changed,then make it so that ac’s cost more supps to be build,they are far to cheap.

Well if your zerg is in anyway competent, they will think ahead and have supply. There is no rule written in stone that says one MUST head bang the gates in order to enter the structure. If your zerg is carrying supply is is a simple matter to set up a few catapults and an AC to protect them and blast a wall into dust and THEN entering. Seriously If all you want to do is follow a zerg mindlessly then maybe you deserve to be wiped by a few guys in AC’s.

Did you even read my post ? Because your reply doesn’t make sense whatsoever to what i said.

Umm yes I did, you talk a zerg being in range of said AC’s being wiped by such with the defenders using only the 1-3 keys.

My reply was WHY are you in range?

Ok let me make it more clear… if you and your zerg is being wiped by a few defenders, then stay out of the little red circles and use your head.

Try this, set up a treb, defend said treb with 5 players to deter enemies from taking it out on foot, aim at keep/tower/castle, hit wall. NO ac can hit you if you are smart enough to stay away from them, and if you’re lucky you can even take the AC’s out.

If you’re talking open field (why would you) just rush them with said zerg, simple, ACs are VERY weak and will fall to 3 players in a matter of seconds. If you are still having problems though circle around and take them out. Honestly if your having problems in the open field with AC’s maybe pack a little less glass in your zerg.

In closing, the damage is fine, the range is fine, even the supply cost is fine, what is not apparently is some players inability to think inside or outside of the zerg.

edit: punctuation

The issue is that there needs to be more counters to siege. While it might be fun for some people to just stand around and wait for a treb to knock down a wall, for most people this is boring. They want to be doing something.

Personally, I think the power the sieg equiment is fine. Players just need ways to counter siege beyond just building more siege. ANET went the wrong way by removing the ability to block treb shots recently. Those who want to defend should have the ability to stand in their tower and block treb shots all day if they want to.

Players should also be able to block AC fire. Guards (shield of the avenger), thieves (smoke screen), etc should be able to block this.

Basically what I am saying is that siege is fine. There just needs to be ways to counter siege without just building new siege. That’s boring.

To be honest biggest problem with ACs now is ppl using zoom hack on them. What about fixing that first? sorry but shooting over wall and destroying arrow carts far behind the gate is not cool. If you don’t know what i am talking about ask Arborstone. Whole their server is doing that. (besides their flying hacking as well…)

u guys think arrow carts ticking at 3k everysecond is a balance if u have any guildgroup inside a keep its almost imposible to take because they have like 10 arrowcarts aiming on same spots if u are lacking ur math skills as bad as my english grammer thats 10X3 30k a second on 1 spot = u cannot pass . good shout arena net u made blobs stronger its all about waiting untill ur enemy logs out to cap stuff now

Personally I feel the reset of points is meaningless. People spent points in something they knew was completely OP and should be punished with being forced to keep those points.

Raven Paradox.1860:

Personally I feel the reset of points is meaningless. People spent points in something they knew was completely OP and should be punished with being forced to keep those points.

Except that one of the only ways to force a thief from stealth will still be the AC tier 5 ability, and it adds a poison dot. After reset I am planning on dumping all my points into AC, although I had previously had points in other areas. The damage/range, to me, is less meaningfull as making thieves visible to my fellow players in the field.

Please punish me, for once this punishment is more of a reward from ANet.

scooby treat.8420:

To be honest AC’s do way to much damage now to players however I feel they should also do less damage the farther they go out like the mesmer GS for example. The farther out they shoot the less “arrows” hit their targets and do less damage.

Mesmers do more damage weilding a GS if the the oppoent is farther away.

Simple fix to AC is to have their strength tied to WVW imbalances. If outmanned 10 to 1, their power gets multiplier of 10 and range triples. Let’s bust zergs and fix the stacking of servers.

So any word on Ac’s goig to do less damage Vs players ? It’s supposed be a support siege…Not a “My one ac will wipe entire zergs siege”….Also seeing people Still not seeing what’s wrong with the current Ac damage is just mindblowing…Why so dense ?..,or are you one of those towercampers waiting for a zerg to show up so you can show of your ac mastery skills forcing the enemy to either clear out the entire tower of sieges or start trebbing it or placing catas… ? Doing that on every tower will be a long and boring night,something i’m not interested in doing.

Caedmon.6798:

So any word on Ac’s goig to do less damage Vs players ? It’s supposed be a support siege…Not a “My one ac will wipe entire zergs siege”….

That should be the purpose…. Wipe zergs with AC’s. Prevent zergs from forming up. The AC’s in general should be fixed for overall. But if zergs are there, then AC damages should increase to bust them and break them. AC’s purpose should take into effect as to how many defenders vs how many attackers. If attackers has 10+ and more than double the defenders, the AC’s should scale up to break the zergs. Perhaps, all sieges should be bumped up to break zergs and detract from the overall mentality of zerging to win…

SleepingDragon.1596:

Caedmon.6798:

So any word on Ac’s goig to do less damage Vs players ? It’s supposed be a support siege…Not a “My one ac will wipe entire zergs siege”….

That should be the purpose…. Wipe zergs with AC’s. Prevent zergs from forming up. The AC’s in general should be fixed for overall. But if zergs are there, then AC damages should increase to bust them and break them. AC’s purpose should take into effect as to how many defenders vs how many attackers. If attackers has 10+ and more than double the defenders, the AC’s should scale up to break the zergs. Perhaps, all sieges should be bumped up to break zergs and detract from the overall mentality of zerging to win…

I think the people should be the main factor of wiping the enemy.Not just 2 campers manning arrowcarts ( who are fully specced in upgrades of the AC, and also using Superior siege on top of that ).Those 2 people on the arrowcarts should be there to hold them off,delay them,act as support for when the “main zerg” arrives,not to wipe them entirely so the zerg doesn’t even have to come in…Some servers just like to have about 5 people in every tower..Forcing you to clear it all out,treb it,place catas etc..its fun at “some” towers.But being forced to do it on All towers because ramming is nigh impossible when towers are being camped this way,is imo not alot of fun.And forcing everyone to go bunker class,or go full toughness vit,is also not an option.People should have the choise of going berserk,or bunker..not being forced to either of them.

My take on arrowcarts:

• they should not be able to hit from behind the gates, this would limit the damage to rams to AC strategically placed on walls or cliffs, in line of sight so they can be countered
• damage and precision (% of arrowkittenting a target) should falloff with distance: arrows are light and affected by the winds, unlike catapult and trebs payloads
• I’m not sure, and correct me if I’m wrong, but I think they don’t get damaged by retaliation or consumed by use anymore? If so, you can keep defending a tower with all walls down and no supplies just by having pre-built arrow carts. It would be nice to have a mechanism in place for ACs (maybe siege in general excluding rams and golems?) to require resupply for keep shooting

Had a great time on WvW today when no siege could be placed. Arrowcarts, as is, suck.

Our server built 4 arrowcarts in Garrison yesterday. We were GODS. With that and the lord banner res, our enemies had no chance. We didn’t repair anything because we wanted our lootbags to get in.

This is so op that is getting even more ridiculous. They weren’t even Superior arrowcarts. It’s funny for like 2 minutes but then the imbalance just makes you cry.

Caliban.3176:

Our server built 4 arrowcarts in Garrison yesterday. We were GODS. With that and the lord banner res, our enemies had no chance. We didn’t repair anything because we wanted our lootbags to get in.

This is so op that is getting even more ridiculous. They weren’t even Superior arrowcarts. It’s funny for like 2 minutes but then the imbalance just makes you cry.

Schhh I want AC’s to farm wexp easily yo!

Tho Nug & dsd and who more it was did an awesome job staying alive in there for such a long time, honestly they did deserve to win it but with our op AC’s our server was able to save the day.

Kimhyuna.1035:

Had a great time on WvW today when no siege could be placed. Arrowcarts, as is, suck.

Yep. WvW would be infinitely better without arrow carts. WvW has never been this fun before, thanks siege bug!

Arrowcarts are erally ruining WVW for me. And don´t give me that “they are there to whipe the Zerg” kitten…Imagine that: The Zwerg can plant arrowcarts too.
Oh the fun of storming a castle that does not just have the same amount of people in it then the force that lays siege but also has more arrowcarts..

Really, something has to be done to nerf arrowcarts

I am really happy that the Arrow Carts are finally useful! Thank you for the much needed buff, ANet and Devon!
I know it’s not always easy to listen to all these whiners here who are always dissatisfied with everything you do, but just keep believing in what you’re doing and keep up the good work, Anet Staff!

The arrow carts are a joke… instead of fighting people just sit there spamming arrow carts.

Congratulations on ruining WvW.

Please delete Arrow Carts from the game! or rename the game.

Arrowcarts are pretty kitten pathetic and ruining the experiance of wvw atm. If anything place a low limit to it on a map. Being bombarded by 3 or more arrowcarts, no matter what direction, when attacking SM is ridiculous.

Arrow Carts and Golems > all siege weapons.
No pvp, no strategy with that. Hidden killer or pve bashing door, welcome WwW !

Arrow Carts party : I kill you, you can’t kill me. Gate ? no no, you can’t open the gate. No pvp, only red circles everywhere on the ground.
Golems rush : 4min30 max or you loose your T3 building. If you come on time ? Great, 30s pvp and 15min repair…

So nerf Arrow Carts and Golems or WwW is dead. No fun and no pvp with this 2 sieges weapons.

DevonCarver.5370:

Greetings WvW players!

We are aware that there has been a great deal of controversy about the recent changes to arrow carts. One change that is happening in today’s build will be a reduction in the amount of damage arrow carts do to siege weapons. While we believe the damage to players is in line with what we want it to be, we do think that we overshot a bit on the range of the arrow carts once they have been upgraded. We intend to change the arrow cart upgrade line to bring the numbers more in tune with what we intended the whole of siege weapons to be, but we felt that it would be unfair to make that change until we were able to provide all players with a reset of their spent World Ability Points, allowing people to reallocate them however they choose. To that end, we will not be making the adjustment to the range of the upgraded skills until we are able to implement a one-time reset of said points. This will make it so that everyone who upgraded arrow carts can decide if they still wish to put their hard earned points into that spot, or spend them elsewhere after the change. This reset is a special event because we feel it is unfair to make changes to lines once people have put points in them. Hopefully this explains the method behind the madness and we hope you continue to fight the good fight on behalf of your realm!
Cheers!

Devon Carver

Honestly, the biggest issue with AC’s is that they dont require line of sight. should they be able to kill a zerg of enemies? Yes, if they dont pay attention, its all their fault. I dont see the use of arrow carts if their main function, defending a point, becomes useless. A zerg should have enough supply to easily counter AC. Not only that, but this would bring supply traps and stealth traps in the equation when you are trying to defend that one AC you have holding those people down.

I think AC have the potential to be cool and not annoying, if they required line of sight.
For instance, it makes no sense what so ever for an ac to be able to hit you through a gate.

Defending should also consist of some risk, there should always be an available strategy to counter your enemy’s strategy, both offensively and defensively.

DevonCarver.5370:

To that end, we will not be making the adjustment to the range of the upgraded skills until we are able to implement a one-time reset of said points.

Can we have an update on the progress of this reset? Been a while since this was posted.

Lifewaster.5912:

DevonCarver.5370:

To that end, we will not be making the adjustment to the range of the upgraded skills until we are able to implement a one-time reset of said points.

Can we have an update on the progress of this reset? Been a while since this was posted.

Well, they still have not changed the AC, so it not for anytime soon.
Though i think they wouldn’t need this if they forced line of sight and made it that ACs cannot hit you through the gate. hell, if a cata cant do anything trough the gate, why should an AC be able to. (specially that rate of fire is so much faster and that it melts anything you put down and the operators of the siege too).

Seriously, where is the range nerf ?

AC is so kitten now. No LoS, range when traited equal to ballista, have better chance to hit, have full damage 5/9 of ballista (non upgraded), 6 s (vs 10 s), 30 supply. Too much power in single siege.

Its better if you change the range, looks majority of player opinions. Good ? Next step, plan to reset. Bad ? Revert. No waste energy in your developer team (your team can concentrate in other problem).

(+funny if you reset now, meanwhile you have implement free chest for every new gained rank).

Can we get some more adjustments on siege please?

I mean, my logic seemed to make sense…

From what i see arrowcarts dont need a nerf,sure 7 arrowcarts kept a 300 zerg outside a tower long enough to upgrade to t3.
Then the 300 man zerg brought 7 golems and tower went down.
Perhaps all this qq is just people accustomed too much on zerging and wanting free caps.
As a defender all that i am seeing is that zergs dont want to commit or spend anything and just bang on a door and cap.
When i spend cold hard cash to provide defence on a tower,why shouldnt a zerg put down carts and do a proper siege?
Thats just my 2 cents on the issue,and certainly i dont think that anyone cares for the people that are paying for upgrades and siege.
Il just sit aside and wait to see how this goes.

Seriously these zoom hacks on the arrow carts allowing the attacking team to hit all defensive siege past the gates and into the defending team’s lord’s room/courtyards is getting ridiculous. This certain server (won’t name names or we get infracted) keeps doing it on top of their blobs and really needs to be fixed

Zoom hacks ruined wvw last night… AC hit me from inside SM… arrows coming through the ceiling

AC damage slaughters players… fine by me. AC slowly destroys seige… that’s fine too. Heck make the AC’s do whatever you want, fine by me. JUST STOP THE KITTEN HACKING.

I know the default answer… report report report. Done that. Now the ball is in your court.

Damage of AC is op ! Do your testers test 8 ac vs a zerg ? Or do you got only 5vs5 battles tests ? pathetic , gonna take a break from wvw / big crap = 10 ac = no tactic = win

Thats exactly what i am talking about,zerg qqing because no brains.
Whats next?asking to remove gates because they hinder zerging?

reduce range, make it LOS, keep damage and we are good seems the consensus?

I was a regular, played several hours a day on Eredon Terrace.

I loved fighting on the underdog side.
Constantly outmaned? Sure, but no problem!

ET had some dedicated players that loved a good fight. Saddly, I don’t see a lot of them of late.

Like a number of my gaming friends, I’m taking a break because stacked arrow carts just don’t make a fun game.

Thanks Anet, it was fun till recently but now I see a new game on the horizon..

http://www.twitch.tv/dntgw2/c/2370506

Just a heads up, I think the video validates the players complains about the AC boost and the reasons why the change should be reverted or considerably revised.
It doesn’t promote active gameplay, skills or strategy.
This is not about the servers involved.

Here are the current issues as I see things:

1) The extended range ability needs to be reduced or eliminated. It’s allowing ACs to hit areas they really have no business hitting.

2) There needs to be a limit on how many ACs that can be placed within a certain distance of each other. I don’t know what the right number is, but right now, too many ACs can hit the same location.

3) The game needs to handle LoS better. There are many locations that an AC can be placed and fire through what should be non-LoS depending on camera angles a player can achieve. Speaking of which, no Tower or Keep gates should have a gap over them which an AC operator can get LoS inside. With the increased range and extended hit area abilities, ACs on gates can hit the Lords room in some Towers which is ridiculous.

That’s it off the top of my head. My guess is the buffs to ACs were implemented to reduce the size of player zergs (at least partially), but in my opinion it’s making the issue worse. Zergs are now getting bigger to counter 7+ ACs in a Tower firing on one location.

There is also the issue that right now you can break the camera with a hack and use it where ever you want. So you can target things that you normally can not with a AC and there by make defending something impossible.

Reading back through this thread I see posts suggesting the AC buff is all about zerg busting. Unfortunately my experience has been the opposite.

Playing as I do on a low population server we now find stacked AC’s can hold us off, no matter how good or diverse our tactics are untill the other side can call in its zerg to hit us from behind.

Even killing the AC’s when possible is not the answer because they can be rebuilt fast enough in most cases to buy time for the zerg rescue.

The only way I could see the AC buff working as it appears to be intended would be for the buff to be tied to the outmaned buff.

Arrow carts ruined WvW IMO. Game was a lot more fun without this nonsense.

Burntb.7392:

Reading back through this thread I see posts suggesting the AC buff is all about zerg busting. Unfortunately my experience has been the opposite.

Playing as I do on a low population server we now find stacked AC’s can hold us off, no matter how good or diverse our tactics are untill the other side can call in its zerg to hit us from behind.

Even killing the AC’s when possible is not the answer because they can be rebuilt fast enough in most cases to buy time for the zerg rescue.

The only way I could see the AC buff working as it appears to be intended would be for the buff to be tied to the outmaned buff.

Exactly, we have the same problem, even when we have smaller numbers and the enemy has almost twice our numbers we get AC’s all over our kitten . They hide behind their walls, and when we are almost wiped by the countless AC’s the zerg decides to leave their walls and chase us down.
Attacking any fortification becomes siege wars 2.
Make AC’s cost more supplies or give a restriction on arrows being fired by AC’s.

And please arenanet fix the hacks in WvW.

lollasaurus.1457:

Arrow carts ruined WvW IMO. Game was a lot more fun without this nonsense.

Agree with this completely.

It just discourages fighting… people sit in their keeps (even when they have numbers) and just fire arrow carts.

It makes for incredibly boring gameplay. Instead of fighting the enemy we’re playing dodge the red cicles, it’s like Crucible of Eternity in the open world.

I still don’t understand the decision to buff AC’s by 80%? I do agree that towers where to easy to take but 80% buff? At least take it back by 20% rams still melts even with the changes and whats the point of placing rams anyway if you can’t man them.

Please just let us play and quit making rash decisions that make people not want to log in and then not listen when it is obvious you made AC’s to OP.

Piteous.4165:

I still don’t understand the decision to buff AC’s by 80%? I do agree that towers where to easy to take but 80% buff? At least take it back by 20% rams still melts even with the changes and whats the point of placing rams anyway if you can’t man them.

Please just let us play and quit making rash decisions that make people not want to log in and then not listen when it is obvious you made AC’s to OP.

Defended towers have never been easy to take.

Also it was not an 80% buff, it was actually A LOT more. Because with the rank abilities there is another buff to the range, to the AOE, to the damage and to the conditions and there is an extra skill that poisons.

I’m just adding all that for dramatic effect. It’s pretty ridiculous to look at all of this together. This was a single patch and applied to what was already an incredibly powerful piece of siege.

lollasaurus.1457:

Arrow carts ruined WvW IMO. Game was a lot more fun without this nonsense.

Pinnacle of WvW experience is now sitting in a tier 3 tower spamming 1 with an arrowcart.
Thanks alot, great update.

AC carts are way to powerful. They need to either make it more expensive to build, comparable to a Catapult, or reduce the damage considerably. People spam AC when attacked and you basically end up with a kill zone that no one can even enter. Well of course you can always make everyone buy that 1 gold Golem because they will take less damage…very clever. P**s people off with AC overpowering and then increase the Golems necessity to capture points. Hmm I wonder if you will increase the cost of Golems next… I guess pay to win it is. All those rich people out there who can afford to buy Gems and convert them to Gold can now Pay to Win.

Try taking a keep that is painted in AC with every single operator having AC mastery, It’s almost always suicide just trying to run by, not even trying to hit.

And of course you can’t put down siege because it will get destroyed before you can build. WvW would be so much better without ACs, they are just too unbalanced.