Just like how crafting is buying regular exp, buying upgrades should reward wxp. The more expensive the upgrade, the more wxp is rewarded.
Building siege rewards regular exp, why should it not reward wxp too?
There’s no need to “break up the zerg” or nerf this and nerf that. Just make it so there is at least some incentive to pouring money and time into the non-glamorous, tedious, difficult task of building up defense in keeps and towers. I’ve never had a problem with zergs. I always liked running in huge zergs for a little while, then stopping and focusing on defense. I’ve always liked the defensive aspect of the game, but now zerging is the ONLY way to get wxp. To not zerg is now not only rewardless, but it is detrimental to your character.
Rewarding wxp for upgrades and building siege seems like the simplest, most logical, common sense way to balance things out. If you think about it, it makes no sense that it’s not this way already.
Just like how crafting is buying regular exp, buying upgrades should reward wxp. The more expensive the upgrade, the more wxp is rewarded.
Building siege rewards regular exp, why should it not reward wxp too?
There’s no need to “break up the zerg” or nerf this and nerf that. Just make it so there is at least some incentive to pouring money and time into the non-glamorous, tedious, difficult task of building up defense in keeps and towers. I’ve never had a problem with zergs. I always liked running in huge zergs for a little while, then stopping and focusing on defense. I’ve always liked the defensive aspect of the game, but now zerging is the ONLY way to get wxp. To not zerg is now not only rewardless, but it is detrimental to your character.
Rewarding wxp for upgrades and building siege seems like the simplest, most logical, common sense way to balance things out. If you think about it, it makes no sense that it’s not this way already.
You don’t play wv3 much do ya? I never zerg and I’m almost rank 10. There are tons of things to do that earn wxp outside the blob hiding in towers and keeps should not reward you and I wont even mention the wxp exploitation that would come with building siege since its already been covered.
Just like how crafting is buying regular exp, buying upgrades should reward wxp. The more expensive the upgrade, the more wxp is rewarded.
Building siege rewards regular exp, why should it not reward wxp too?
There’s no need to “break up the zerg” or nerf this and nerf that. Just make it so there is at least some incentive to pouring money and time into the non-glamorous, tedious, difficult task of building up defense in keeps and towers. I’ve never had a problem with zergs. I always liked running in huge zergs for a little while, then stopping and focusing on defense. I’ve always liked the defensive aspect of the game, but now zerging is the ONLY way to get wxp. To not zerg is now not only rewardless, but it is detrimental to your character.
Rewarding wxp for upgrades and building siege seems like the simplest, most logical, common sense way to balance things out. If you think about it, it makes no sense that it’s not this way already.
You don’t play wv3 much do ya? I never zerg and I’m almost rank 10. There are tons of things to do that earn wxp outside the blob hiding in towers and keeps should not reward you and I wont even mention the wxp exploitation that would come with building siege since its already been covered.
So NO!
What by sniping yaks, flipping sentries, and flipping supply camps? Yes that is fine too but it doesn’t give as much wxp as fast as zerging does. But as the person before said, seige building giving wxp is a bad idea. But ordering upgrades and keeping supply flowing to finish the upgrades is not hiding in the towers and keep. That is a critical roll that gets almost no reward. It would be nice if escorting a yak from camp to keep would give exp and wxp too.
Fair enough building siege would be bad. But upgrading, escorting and repairing should, as killing, capping and wxp-training, be rewarded too. Many spend their time and gold to sort out things like this and it would be nice to see that accumulate some reward.
The problem with upgrades giving wxp is people running into a tower thats under attack, seeing no current upgrade, and deciding to pop the merchant upgrade, while the rest of the team are using the tower supply to make arrow carts. Repairing is the same deal – someone drains all of stonemist’s supplies fixing a wall that is taking constant treb fire, and when the wall eventually dies there is no supply left to siege up the lord room.
Adding WXP to dolyak escorts is a possibility, as the original botting of that was for people to get the money/karma from it (spendable currency which can imbalance game economy – WXP cannot be used outside your character). However, a problem would be people running a program to farm the WXP while they’re sleeping – again, this would be a lesser problem than normal bots, as WXP cannot be traded across characters or accounts, so they have to risk their main char being reported.
80 DPS War / 80 DPS Ranger / 80 Support Guard
Blacktalon
Army of Devona [AoD]
People running in and upgrading during an attack already happens. What I see is a few excuses to not add wxp to a part of the game that being overlooked.
Upgrading, escorting and repairing has always been ignored. Not only by the ones behind the game but also by those playing it. Very few stays behind and does the hard work.
We all enjoy the game in different way, why shouldn’t our way be as rewarding as any other part?
I can promise you that there are more people who has never paid for an upgrade, escorted a dolly or placed a siege then there are people who spend 95% of their time doing nothing but.
And after this patch, it’s become even worse. 70 man zerg on your bl who choses to ignore and defend a fully upgraded keep with the mentality “We will just retake it” and instead farms bags at a camp. Thank you Anet for encouraging this!
“We will just retake it” is the biggest insult to the ppl who has spent 6 or more hours upgrading (again their own gold) and escorting dollies for that keep.
The problem with upgrades giving wxp is people running into a tower thats under attack, seeing no current upgrade, and deciding to pop the merchant upgrade, while the rest of the team are using the tower supply to make arrow carts. Repairing is the same deal – someone drains all of stonemist’s supplies fixing a wall that is taking constant treb fire, and when the wall eventually dies there is no supply left to siege up the lord room.
Adding WXP to dolyak escorts is a possibility, as the original botting of that was for people to get the money/karma from it (spendable currency which can imbalance game economy – WXP cannot be used outside your character). However, a problem would be people running a program to farm the WXP while they’re sleeping – again, this would be a lesser problem than normal bots, as WXP cannot be traded across characters or accounts, so they have to risk their main char being reported.
there is a simple fix to the running in and upgrading, you reward the wxp when the upgrade finishes.
The problem with upgrades giving wxp is people running into a tower thats under attack, seeing no current upgrade, and deciding to pop the merchant upgrade, while the rest of the team are using the tower supply to make arrow carts. Repairing is the same deal – someone drains all of stonemist’s supplies fixing a wall that is taking constant treb fire, and when the wall eventually dies there is no supply left to siege up the lord room.
Adding WXP to dolyak escorts is a possibility, as the original botting of that was for people to get the money/karma from it (spendable currency which can imbalance game economy – WXP cannot be used outside your character). However, a problem would be people running a program to farm the WXP while they’re sleeping – again, this would be a lesser problem than normal bots, as WXP cannot be traded across characters or accounts, so they have to risk their main char being reported.
THIS.
Upgrading needs rewards, because I’m tired of emptying my pockets just so we could lose everything overnight. However, to avoid the type of noob that James explains above, the rewards need to stay WvW-related.
My idea is that each time you upgrade something in WvW, upgrades cost less the next time you decide to upgrade. For example, somebody who has upgraded to a waypoint for SM over 5 times will have a cost of only 30 silver when they go to upgrade it again, whereas somebody who has never upgraded SM has to pay the full 1.5 gold.
Another fix to exploiting upgrade/siege xp is to simply limit your Wxp to One item in a keep. That way no one exploits building 25 arrow carts for world xp. I would like to see some more ideas to rewarding defense better to avoid the swapping that dominates WvW right now
More things should give you credit for defense ticks, for sure. Defense ticks give WXP already.
Presently, to get credit for a defense tick you must:
Kill someone OR
Repair a wall or door
Once the supply is out and if there’s not enough defenders to actually zerg out and get kills, you can easily do a lot of work (and dying) and get no defense credit.
it needs to be reiterated that if you take the time to upgrade something, currently you are rewarded with nothing.
less then nothing because you had to spend time and money to do it.
teamwork is all fine and good, to a limit. 50 people storming across the map isn’t teamwork in my book though, that’s just a mob. fortifying a location is currently a form of teamwork that is completely unrewarded, and the player base is correct in asking for that to change.
Until someone blows all 1700 supply in your keep building flame rams to farm wxp.
That is a good point. But what about ordering upgrades? Shouldn’t there be some reward for that?
No, upgrades would have the same problem. We already have people that will go to say Bay on an enemy BL and start merchants and banks just to burn supply, this will just make it worse. There is no reason to have merchants/banks started on an enemy bl on reset night. This will just compound an already stupid problem.
No, upgrades would have the same problem. We already have people that will go to say Bay on an enemy BL and start merchants and banks just to burn supply, this will just make it worse. There is no reason to have merchants/banks started on an enemy bl on reset night. This will just compound an already stupid problem.
This is a separate issue that needs to be fixed separately.
There should be no such thing as a “junk upgrade that wastes supply”. We should be 100% happy to see any upgrade get bought.
Like:
Merchants should cost no supply, just cash and karma.
OR
Buying merchants gives each merchant and each upgrade supervisor x2 Zealot guards
A lot of the upgrades need a looking-at to determine if they are actually worthwhile or just a “waste of resources”. None should be a waste.
I.e – Usually it takes about 6-7 hours to upgrade a keep, the time spent and the gold spent on upgrades and any possible siege can be made mute with 1 minute and 7 golems.
Golems are ofc a different issue, however my point of rewarding upgrading, escorting and repairing is that it would make it more attractive.
As it stands now very few do and as very few do we have loads who doesn’t care if it gets lost. They can just retake it.
Exploiting siege for WXP (i.e., building 20 rams inside your own keep, etc.) is easily remedied. Only award the WXP once the siege weapon has actually done damage to an enemy player, npc, or structure. Thus, the incentive only exists for placing siege weapons in appropriate places and situations on the battlefield.
I wouldn’t mind getting WXP for paying for a camp/tower/keep/SM upgrade. Might encourage others to chip in with their own gold.
Not sure about building siege. Wouldn’t mind so much but as been said, you’ll probably get people emptying supplies and siege capping a area with useless siege unless you get your stuff in first. Maybe require the players to hold on to the supply for a certain amount of time before it becomes available for WXP. Distance from south of bay/hills to bay/hills. If people have to run around with it before using it, could possibly keep others from just draining supply. Could limit the amount of WXP for such a action in a 24h period. If you’ve built 10 siege or used the amount to build say 10 golams in a 24h period, you won’t get WXP for it until it get’s reset to the next cycle.
I speak for my self and no one else. Only fools believe they speak for a majority.
No, upgrades would have the same problem. We already have people that will go to say Bay on an enemy BL and start merchants and banks just to burn supply, this will just make it worse. There is no reason to have merchants/banks started on an enemy bl on reset night. This will just compound an already stupid problem.
This is a separate issue that needs to be fixed separately.
There should be no such thing as a “junk upgrade that wastes supply”. We should be 100% happy to see any upgrade get bought.
Like:
Merchants should cost no supply, just cash and karma.
OR
Buying merchants gives each merchant and each upgrade supervisor x2 Zealot guards
A lot of the upgrades need a looking-at to determine if they are actually worthwhile or just a “waste of resources”. None should be a waste.
I agree with this. If they took away the supply component of some of the less useful upgrades I would love to see Wxp for upgrades. I usually am on the defense team on reset night and am one of the players that is paying for upgrades to camps/keeps, I would love to get Wxp for that. But as of right now it would be too easy to troll for Wxp with upgrades.
Not sure about building siege. Wouldn’t mind so much but as been said, you’ll probably get people emptying supplies and siege capping a area with useless siege unless you get your stuff in first.
The WXP rewarded doesn’t have to be huge. I think a lot of players would just like to see something for their efforts in activities that are supposed to be central to WvW.
If you only give WXP for siege once it has actually damaged an appropriate enemy target, as I said just above your post, and keep the WXP for building it moderately low, it will not be worth the effort and risk for people to use up an entire depot of supply on superfluous siege, and legitimate players will still be rewarded.
And now, 8 golems took a fully upgraded Garrison in less then 1 minute. I ask what’s the point of upgrading, especially when it does not benefit you.
Maybe you should try sieging up your lords room and defending. It does not matter if 8 golems get in if you have a well fortified keep, with plenty of siege. A sieged up LR in Hills is near impenetrable, 3rd level sieged up in garrison is also a tough one to crack even with a ton of golems.
Yeah if you don’t siege up your keeps there is no point in upgrading.
Yeah if you don’t siege up your keeps there is no point in upgrading.
And there’s little point in placing siege unless there are people willing to stand there, doing absolutely nothing, getting no rewards, 24/7, on the off chance that an attack actually happens.
I’m pretty sure most people who do this are actually using a second account on a second monitor, so they can play the game on their main while watching on a secondary. That’s not a realistic solution to expect the playerbase as a whole to adopt, though.
The whole point of golems seems to be to avoid PvP by bashing through both sets of gates faster than defense can respond. Nobody uses golems against a manned keep.
Since the point of golems is to avoid PvP, we should just remove golems from the game.
Upgrades definitely should… kitten they cost enough gold Placing siege shouldn’t though, we already have issues with people building useless siege. I think defense ticks should give more wxp though.
Yeah if you don’t siege up your keeps there is no point in upgrading.
And there’s little point in placing siege unless there are people willing to stand there, doing absolutely nothing, getting no rewards, 24/7, on the off chance that an attack actually happens.
I’m pretty sure most people who do this are actually using a second account on a second monitor, so they can play the game on their main while watching on a secondary. That’s not a realistic solution to expect the playerbase as a whole to adopt, though.
The whole point of golems seems to be to avoid PvP by bashing through both sets of gates faster than defense can respond. Nobody uses golems against a manned keep.
Since the point of golems is to avoid PvP, we should just remove golems from the game.
We always have ppl rotating in/out of tower/keep watch and have many scouts. Rarely are we surprised by an attack to the point we can’t go straight to the lords room and start to defend. I would like to see rewards for people defending though. It does get boring after a couple hours, but it is worth every minute if we are winning.
The keeps were sieged but as someone already stated you need ppl to use them. As the timer is about 3 min, porting is not an option. That leaves you with the hope of a bigger defense group close by to run there in under 1 minute.
Doable yes, highly realistic no.
Golem cap, golem nerf or last upgrade at a keep to counter golem rushes could help. Until then I’d appreciate wxp for upgrading, escorting and repairing.
We always have ppl rotating in/out of tower/keep watch and have many scouts. Rarely are we surprised by an attack to the point we can’t go straight to the lords room and start to defend. I would like to see rewards for people defending though. It does get boring after a couple hours, but it is worth every minute if we are winning.
That’s great that you do all that, but Slamz’s larger point still stands. In any game like this players will gravitate to those activities for which the developers have set out explicit rewards, and they will find the most efficient means of gaining those rewards. The best game design is one where the most fun activity (or just whatever activity the developers want to encourage) is also the one that most efficiently gives you points, loot, rankings, etc.
Telling people to stop complaining and do it the hard and thankless way like you do won’t convince anyone except the few who already enjoy it that way like you do. Again, credit to you for playing that way, but what you’re saying is equivalent to telling a kid who hates broccoli, “come on, just start liking broccoli.” The design and mechanics of the game really need to change so that the activities the developers have said they want players to engage in are rewarded both tangibly and intangibly.
People running in and upgrading during an attack already happens. What I see is a few excuses to not add wxp to a part of the game that being overlooked.
Upgrading, escorting and repairing has always been ignored. Not only by the ones behind the game but also by those playing it. Very few stays behind and does the hard work.
We all enjoy the game in different way, why shouldn’t our way be as rewarding as any other part?
I can promise you that there are more people who has never paid for an upgrade, escorted a dolly or placed a siege then there are people who spend 95% of their time doing nothing but.
And after this patch, it’s become even worse. 70 man zerg on your bl who choses to ignore and defend a fully upgraded keep with the mentality “We will just retake it” and instead farms bags at a camp. Thank you Anet for encouraging this!
“We will just retake it” is the biggest insult to the ppl who has spent 6 or more hours upgrading (again their own gold) and escorting dollies for that keep.
I agree that upgrades should give some wxp, but with restrictions. First, you should only get the wxp when the upgrade FINISHES. Second, only the structure upgrades for towers, keep, and stonemist castle should give it. Supply camp upgrades should give it also. This will help avoid trolls buying useless upgrades like merchants or banker, specially if the building is under attack.
I do recall seeing at times when I am helping around a tower and have defended it, I will get a eventcompletionn reward of “Defend the workers upgrading the tower/keep,” because the upgrade finished.
There are no dumb upgrades. Every upgrade, may it be additional guards or a merchant adds to the amount of supply you can stock in a keep/tower.
Towers and keep has 12 upgrades each, those of you against wxp for upgrading seem to think we are suggesting 1k wxp per upgrade. Well we are not. If buying an upgrade and let it finish gives us 75 wxp, it would still be 10 times more beneficial to cap and kill quaggan nodes.
I think that those of you who are against this has spent little to no time doing the job left behind any offensive commander/zerg. This is also the reason this thread is still on page 1 and not page 11. Had it been anything regarding destroying or killing this thread would have been filled.
Instead, help those who stay behind repairing what you feel you have no wish or time to do. We use our own gold and we miss out on tooons of loot and wxp not running with the zerg. What we do is a completely ungrateful job that’s not seen or cared for by others.
We choose to do it because that is how we enjoy our gaming but at least let us have some wxp for our effort.
I agree.
WvW currently rewards aggressive playstyle with xp, loot, karma and money.
Caretaking playstyle – which is in my opinion also important to have a healthy “kingdom” is more or less a money- and time-consumer with minimal rewards.
Building upgrades can only be achived by spending money, which you normally dont get back inside wvw (playing the “defensive/protective” style).
also securing dolyaks and running from camp to keep/tower to camp to keep/tower to repair a succesfully defended objective (the mentioned job left behind by offensive playing commander/zerg) also should be rewarded somehow (beyond the fact, that you bring the doly to its target or don’t instantly lose the keep because you didnt repair it).
So: Repairing, dolyak-securing and especially ordering (and if it must be waiting for it to finish until it gets rewarded) upgrades needs to have a bit more incentive for players.
Rosh Sha Dor
Hand of Blood[HoB], Konglomerat [KOT]
Piken Square
There are no dumb upgrades. Every upgrade, may it be additional guards or a merchant adds to the amount of supply you can stock in a keep/tower.
It’s a question of timing. When a keep comes under attack and someone immediately buys the merchant upgrade, thus instantly draining the keep of a lot of supply that could have been used for defenses/repairs, that’s a “dumb upgrade”.
If things like merchants cost money only and no supply, then it would always be an appreciated upgrade.
When a keep comes under attack and someone immediately buys the merchant upgrade, thus instantly draining the keep of a lot of supply that could have been used for defenses/repairs, that’s a “dumb upgrade”.
Who would do such a thing? oO
If you do this you knowingly hurt the server… oh my god. Has this really happend?
And yes, some upgrades (concerning only “nscs” because there is no logic in supplies) should only cost money but also take time to finish – so you cant rush them through.
Rosh Sha Dor
Hand of Blood[HoB], Konglomerat [KOT]
Piken Square
Who would do such a thing? oO
If you do this you knowingly hurt the server… oh my god. Has this really happend?
Not sure if serious.
Yes, this happens frequently enough, either through incompetence or blatant cross-teaming. It used to happen very frequently back when server transfers were free — people would make second accounts apparently just to put them on the enemy server and do things that would screw with them, with “waste supply” being a common one.
Even the “upgrade guards” is probably better for griefing supply if you can coordinate an attack before supply builds back up than it is for actually helping the team. NPCs are so inconsequential that adding a few more with these costly upgrades doesn’t help the defenders that much.
I feel that Building/repairing siege and Upgrading should reward XP.
For the building/repairing wxp, I suggest it should be 2 supply used = 1 wxp. This way it means people won’t just use keep and towers supply as it’d be too much effort for little gain. What it would do though is reward those of us who aren’t on the front line but still doing vital tasks.
Upgrading is a bit more tricky and could be abused by people paying for wxp essentially. I’d say code the wxp to the ‘Protect Workers’ or ‘reinforcements incoming’ quests that crop up once you queue an upgrade. Only when the upgrade is succesfully completed are you credited with the full wxp associated which maybe should be the supply required for the upgrade.
There are no dumb upgrades. Every upgrade, may it be additional guards or a merchant adds to the amount of supply you can stock in a keep/tower.
It’s a question of timing. When a keep comes under attack and someone immediately buys the merchant upgrade, thus instantly draining the keep of a lot of supply that could have been used for defenses/repairs, that’s a “dumb upgrade”.
If things like merchants cost money only and no supply, then it would always be an appreciated upgrade.
Yes I agree, timing is important. However the upgrade itself is not dumb, the person who upgraded is.
Now this already happens, on maybe all servers. Those doing it are either server spies who wanna ruin the keep before an attack or someone with a kind heart who doesn’t know better or .. just dumb.
In any regards, it does not happen all the time and I still see no reason to why upgrading shouldn’t be rewarded with wxp. Cause that is what we are asking for here after all.
If the wxp is rewarded after the upgrade is done, it will be pretty hard upgrade-grinding for wxp.
Who would do such a thing? oO
If you do this you knowingly hurt the server… oh my god. Has this really happend?
A fair number of people have secondary accounts, because buying the game a second time is cheaper than buying gems for certain things. And if you’ve got one, then why not use it to join an enemy server? Report their movements, order useless upgrades etc.
Scouting as well I think should be added to this or mundane type tasks such as refreshing siege etc. These aren’t going to reward world xp but they are extremely important to defending assets.
Placing siege shouldn’t though, we already have issues with people building useless siege. I think defense ticks should give more wxp though.