Guild Wars 2

Taken from reddit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j54bkD-3Nr0

Is this fair? Why is a particular class allowed such a huge advantage? Stealth was an absurdly broken mechanic on another really popular mmorpg until they tuned it down 6 years later.. why is the same mistake being repeated on a new game?

No class should be allowed to escape danger this easily. Give thieves more sustained defense while making stealth more managable to the enemies.

Was already posted here somewhere, agreed this is crazy. We need ways to break stealth, revealing skills, or something. Damage needs to break stealth, thieves already have way too many ways to get back into hiding. Not to mention the invisibility bug gives them extra seconds of dps-ing enemies who can hardly fight back.

Already been posted a dozen times.

every class uses AOE

so i dont understand that they dont bomb the ground and kill him with bleed or pure damage

no stun or cc?

bah, i did press ctrl + F and typed “thief” to make sure it wasnt already posted

i wonder how he get so much hps (23.000) and this crazy damage all at once

gz to this thief

This is odd, He should be getting a debuff after coming out of stealth for about 3 seconds, preventing him from going back into stealth. Yet he doesn’t and can constantly go back into stealth with cloak and dagger.

Hacking // Exploiting

Since e video is called nighthound thief, then prob we need dust of revelation…

revealing is only triggered if:
1) thief leaves stealth by attacking
2) thief leaves shadow refuge during its duration
in all other cases revealing WILL NOT be triggered (and that how it should be)

Am I the only one that spams AoE on a stealth thief?

There wasn’t really anything revealing about that video, a thief wandered around a group who didn’t communicate, look, or do anything about his presence. Combined with the rendering issue, which I imagine is what made that more possible it’s no real surprise. If you watched the damage figures etc, there’s nothing special. In-fact that looked fine to me.

You don’t need new ways to break stealth guys, you just need Anet to fix this rendering thing and get rid of culling. Freakin Guardians do this to me sometimes in WvW it’s that bad!

What you guys fail to realize.

1.) spamming AOE does not reveal people in stealth.

2.) that particular thief is running a very, very tanky build. he only needs to survive for a few hits between CnD blows to re-stealth. he does not attack anything while stealth to break it.

3.) rendering issues/lag makes stealth even more powerful. There is supposed to be a 3 second window when he can’t restealth. From the THEIF’S perspective, he is stealth/unstealthed at the correct times. From the perspective of the enemy zerg, he’s probably only visable for a fraction of that time due to rendering lag. Combine this with the theif rolling while visable, and he can be VERY DIFFICULT to lock down before he stealths again. THIS IS THE BIGGEST CULPRIT TO WHY THIS WORKS.

The way this game is, stealth is incredibly powerful, and there’s basically no counter play, aside from mashing out damage skills in a random direction, or turtling up and trying to block/dodge the “inevitable” stealth attack. They need to give each class a way to force a de-stealth, greatly fix rendering issues, or increase the time between re-stealths.

What you fail to realize is that AoE will kill said thief, regardless of invisibility/culling/rendering issues.

Invisibility != Invulnerability.

Since shadow refuge has a finite area….spam aoe and win?

still cant believe thieves havent been nerfed yet… this is nothing new to see

The first 40 seconds everyone just focuses on the NPCs, every class could stay in the circle. The rest of the video they are all occupied fighting the third team. I could do the same with my shout warrior and I’m sure other classes could accomplish it too. Funny music and presentation go a long way.

The thief did not stop them from capturing the camp on his own. He had an enemy zerg helping out.

The simple strategy is to take out the nerf bat.

I know ANet has some statisticians working for them. I formulate an alternative hypothesis that the sheer number of actual level 80 exotic geared Thieves participating in WvW has a positive correlation with the outcome of a WvW match that is more statistically significant than any other class’s contribution using the same criteria.

In other words, this video is just another example of the God-like powers I see Thieves using and abusing every day.

This is clearly a bug. People who are invulnerable or invisible are not supposed to be able to contest a point. Similar to how it works in sPvP.

That’s the reason why thieves aren’t good point defenders… because they loose the point as soon as they stealth. This should be reported as a bug, if that was the case. In this video though, you can’t even see if it’s the thief that’s actually contesting the point or if there are npc’s/other people running onto the point.

Erebus Delirium.4892:

The simple strategy is to take out the nerf bat.

I know ANet has some statisticians working for them. I formulate an alternative hypothesis that the sheer number of actual level 80 exotic geared Thieves participating in WvW has a positive correlation with the outcome of a WvW match that is more statistically significant than any other class’s contribution using the same criteria.

In other words, this video is just another example of the God-like powers I see Thieves using and abusing every day.

and if those stats show thieves are balanced?

Easy fix. Remove stealth skills and dagger storm and thief is balanced.

Remove the autoleap from heartseeker while youre at it

Jesus guys. Thieve’s are so easy to kill when they are sitting in stealth. Just spam auto attack / aoe’s. It doesn’t matter if you can’t see them. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve killed thieves who are in invis by just swinging my weapon around like an idiot.

And thieve’s invis shouldn’t be nerfed if it’s a culling issue. Wait for the culling issue to be fixed first before crying out for thief invis nerf.

Ah cool, so while he stealths, hits a 15k backstab followed by 2 spamseekers to 3 shot you, i can stand spamming my autoattack.

Genious, why didnt i think of that.

He’s definitely not hitting 15k backstabs with that tank build, but yeah I get your point. Anyway, I think the easiest solution would be to have revealed apply every time stealth ends instead of only when you attack.

Thieves, as built, are fishbowl warriors. They pick their targets at their leisure, without any chance of getting hurt unless they chose.

The rest of us are the fish.

-Jeff

Psy.6153:

Ah cool, so while he stealths, hits a 15k backstab followed by 2 spamseekers to 3 shot you, i can stand spamming my autoattack.

Genious, why didnt i think of that.

This thread is about issues pertaining to stealth, so lumping everything you think is wrong with the thief as one giant issue is a little bit of a clouded perspective. Not every thief is a HS spamming thief – it’s just the default cookie-cutter set for players that would otherwise be bad. Even the player in the video isn’t an HS thief, he’s sword/dagger.

I have a pistol/dagger thief myself, and agree that HS thieves need toned down a bit, but stealth can’t be balanced around one build/weapon set. The primary problem with stealth is culling, as far as I know. If the mechanics of stealth were working as intended, then it wouldn’t be such an overblown problem.

Remove stealth totally. Problem solved.

I could go for that, as long as they remove death shroud, clones/illusions, and retaliation.

It would really be for the best if Anet would just level the playing field entirely. Clearly these mechanics are broken. We should all just play the same class with one atack. Then, to remove the risk that someone might get lucky and deal more damage health would be removed too in favor of a mini game in which you got to make one move for each attack. It would consist of a 3×3 grid on which you placed one symbol designating your control each turn. The person who controlled 3 spaces in a line woul be declared the winner.

This is obviously the only fair solution. Seriously Anet, what were you thinking? Classes!? Mechanics!? Variety!? It’s just absurd. Get to work on this NOW or I want my money back with interest. Also, I demand a pudding pop. Get to it!

There are ways to deal with it, ill list a couple:

Area block, blocking the attack prevents the theif from restealthing

Blindness, drop aoe effects that cause blind where you think he is, again preventing easy restealth.

Bind closest target and spam it, then use a CC ability as soon as you pick up a target. Against theives like him as a warrior i take bulls, spam closest target then smack bulls as soon as i get a target (it wont be visible due to rendering lag, but you can target him within a second of him coming out of steath). Once you stun the thief bolas him and spam your crap where you rooted him. Even if he restealths ther is a good chance your group is going to down him.

Most of the issue here is culling causing the thief to remain invisible even after stealth drops. It only takes a second or two to load the thief’s model, but that is all the thief needs to restealth right after the revealed debuff wears off.

However, while stealthed the thief isn’t stopping the supply camp from being capped, so he has to choose between stealth uptime or capture (in this case, capture-blocking) uptime.

Tulisin.6945:

However, while stealthed the thief isn’t stopping the supply camp from being capped, so he has to choose between stealth uptime or capture (in this case, capture-blocking) uptime.

Sadly, this is completely false. I was at a camp where this BS was occurring, and without anyone seeing the thief for a fraction of a second every 5-10s, he prevented cap by himself. I agree that one person in a capture circle should NOT be able to prevent cap if stealthed, but it currently does. And no, we were not slowly capping it every time he went back into stealth, the progress bar never moved.

We also did the stack on one spot with only 10 or so people around (no culling), and unfortunately with the occasional random running by the camp not stacking the guy was able to keep in stealth.

This really does need to be fixed, as that prevented us from grabbing supply to help a nearby tower under siege (we did not have another nearby camp).

Until this is fixed kyt try my suggestion of binding closest target and spamming cc abilities as soon as you pick up a target. Warriors bulls rush and guardian greatsword leap are great for this (as the GS leap blinds the theif so he cant restealth).

When i had this used against me i can usually target the theif for about 2 seconds, even when he isnt yet rendered.

I have a guildmate that has used this as well and he does go down, but its typically to getting blinded or ending up having is CnD blocked. When you figure out the mechanics of it you look at and find a way to defeat it. I do agree its a big silly, but until its fixed I won’t let the enemy do it to me easily.

Yes, he did eventually die once the only people left were all stacked aoe’ing on themselves, but it is still silly. The only positive about the entire thing was that we got to “farm” several more dolyak spawns before he died.

And I agree that for now we do have to just deal with it, but I hope ArenaNet does change it so that either stealth does not cap or prevent cap, or take a less desired route of changing how stealth/revealed works so that this can’t be done.

Break stealth after 1-2 secs through damage and attacking.
But with the culling/rendering problems i would say instantly break stealth through both.

It’s funny. You can read the comments and immediately know who plays a thief.

“So what if 1 player can hold off dozens of others? Doesn’t mean class is OP”

Stealth needs to break on damage and be detectable at close range. Also we need to add cooldowns to thief attacks. Having no cds would be great except their attacks do TONS of damage. SO LET’S MAKE THEM SPAMMABLE!!! BRILLIANT

I always AoE thieves with my grenades, it does NOTHING to someone specced like this thief in the video. Only newbie thieves < 80 die from AoE, mainly because they attack too much instead of going back to stealth and vanishing. There is no way to know where to AoE, and since you can’t possibly coordinate a zerg to cover every spot, and the thief sees the circles, he can easily dodge most of it staying alive forever.

You guys are derps if you think you can kill this kind of thief build with just AOE dmg while they are in stealth…he has 22k HP – as a thief. Plus his regen in stealth is ticking over 300hp per second. This implies a tank build. With him dodging around, you’ll be lucky to even hit him. He knows what he’s doing, and a build like this is practically impossible to kill. Combine that with the capture mechanics…if you had 1 thief like this in every camp/tower/keep you hold, you’d never lose them.

IMO, damage should break stealth, and all stealth breaks should trigger revealed. There are a lot of bad thieves out there that make the class seem weak, or possiblly balanced. But those good thieves…I’ve seen some go 20v1, kill 10, and route the rest.