Guild Wars 2

It’s pretty ridiculous that an ele can just up and simply get downed, then walk into a portal ensuring their safety and revive themselves. I’m pretty sure they are the only class with downed movement skills that can do that. Regardless, the mechanic should not even exist, as it removes any penalty of actually going down by acting as a permanent safety net that makes eles impossible to kill near/around towers/keeps.

I know you might say that immobilizing them is how you counter it but it’s rediculous that doing that even needs to be done to kill someone who has already LOST.

To be clear here I’m not saying we should remove vapor form, just it’s ability to allow players to walk through portals.

It should be made if you are in vapor form you cant enter portals and you cant enter keeps, i see it all the time where groups of ele will jump down from defending a keep attack until they are downed and then vapor back into the base and repeat the process.

They should actually fix the downstate for several of the classes, some are WAY to powerful (Thief, ele for example) and some just plain suck(Engi, Memser) But hey we all know that NOTHING will be done about them, Anet are AWFUL at balancing, pretty much the WORST company in this regard.

sinject.4607:

I know you might say that immobilizing them is how you counter it but it’s rediculous that doing that even needs to be done to kill someone who has already LOST.

I agree, and the rooting in itself is a ridiculous argument. Immobilizing them, really?

1. You have to recognize that it is an ele, which in the particle/zerg frenzy aided by low character quality is near impossible.
2. You have to fire the right skill that may be on CD, within a 0.5sec window and pray the lag doesn’t mess it up which it will, and that the root isn’t blocked or doesn’t miss.
3. It simply won’t work 99% of the time for too many reasons to list.

It makes me furious too that such OP skills exist when my class, engi, has the worst downed skills of them all. I can die with a bang, if I’m lucky, or just die. Notice the ‘die’ part.

The mist form must be nerfed so that it can’t pass portals. Alternatively, give each class the ability to jump into portals and be nearly impossibly to kill at the gates.

And while you’re at it, nerf the thief (damage should cancel stealth). That should be done regularly in any case xD

@Zerospin, Mesmer isnt that much better. Most of the time get ported into AoE and die, Get ported right next to where you were and die. Sure it has the odd time where it MIGHT work, but thats rare.

Then theres the fact that anyone able to Stealth gets a free kill against us as our #2 requires a target…

Really, the Ele’s downed state needs a re-work. Their #1 is piddling and their #3 is pointless. #2 is much stronger than it should be because it has the extra power budget from 1 and 3. Block them from entering portals during Vapor Form and their downed state goes from “OP if they’re a three-second walk from a portal or their zerg but otherwise terrible” to “just terrible.”

Downed state is supposed to give you a decent chance at rallying. The Ele’s doesn’t do that at all most of the time and then does it too well in very-specific places.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Really, the Ele’s downed state needs a re-work. Their #1 is piddling and their #3 is pointless. #2 is much stronger than it should be because it has the extra power budget from 1 and 3. Block them from entering portals during Vapor Form and their downed state goes from “OP if they’re a three-second walk from a portal or their zerg but otherwise terrible” to “just terrible.”

Downed state is supposed to give you a decent chance at rallying. The Ele’s doesn’t do that at all most of the time and then does it too well in very-specific places.

I think downed is just supposed to give you a slight chance of coming back from having already been defeated. It has it’s place in PvE definitely but in WvW I don’t know.

Forgive my heresy but sometimes I’m in favor of downed being removed completely/radically altered in WvW; for me it just adds unnecessary complications and annoyances.
Like how someone engaged in a battle with someone else can rally from killing a mob, or how just by being in a group you are instantly stronger than a really good player who is able to solo you all, just because regardless of how many times they are able to down you, you can just be resurrected before they can finish you. I think when you’ve been beat, you’ve been beat; that should be final.

That aside, elementalists who do this drive me up the wall because its completely exploiting a mechanic that I already don’t like and specifically in this instance shouldn’t exist.

Find the kitten damage on this pics:

http://i.imgur.com/BWmHLBO.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IlL49CI.jpg

Chill out, this class has been nerfed into oblivion.

All Anet has to do is change it so they can’t port into a tower, no other class gets away from dying more than Ele it needs to be stopped..

They just nerfed vapor form so that it can’t be instantly triggered on down. Get over it and stop being terrible.

Chimaster.8165:

Chill out, this class has been nerfed into oblivion.

not nearly as hard as engineer or necromancer in the past. builds were utterly destroyed on engineer. d/d bunker ele is still one of the most powerful things in the game.

sinject.4607:

It’s pretty ridiculous that an ele can just up and simply get downed, then walk into a portal ensuring their safety and revive themselves.

Lowest armor / health pool combination in the game. Considering a full soldier’s ele has less health than a zerker warrior, no cause to complain. If they weren’t so easy to down, you wouldnt be complaining about them getting through the gate.

I’m sure the ele’s would be happy to trade vapor form for 8-10k health and heavier armor so they don’t get downed in the first place.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

It should be made if you are in vapor form you cant enter portals and you cant enter keeps, i see it all the time where groups of ele will jump down from defending a keep attack until they are downed and then vapor back into the base and repeat the process.

They should actually fix the downstate for several of the classes, some are WAY to powerful (Thief, ele for example) and some just plain suck(Engi, Memser) But hey we all know that NOTHING will be done about them, Anet are AWFUL at balancing, pretty much the WORST company in this regard.

I agree… no portal stuffs… balance the kitten downed states. Seriously… it’s 3 kitten skills (4th is universal heal). How in the kitten hard is that to balance?

covenn.7165:

sinject.4607:

It’s pretty ridiculous that an ele can just up and simply get downed, then walk into a portal ensuring their safety and revive themselves.

Lowest armor / health pool combination in the game. Considering a full soldier’s ele has less health than a zerker warrior, no cause to complain. If they weren’t so easy to down, you wouldnt be complaining about them getting through the gate.

I’m sure the ele’s would be happy to trade vapor form for 8-10k health and heavier armor so they don’t get downed in the first place.

You can’t seriously be comparing an ele to a warrior… and come to the conclusion that the ele is the one that needs extra love in WvW…

I can sort of see some frustration with this, but these sorts of differences between classes makes the game better as a whole. If everyone was essentially the same, might as well play a shooter.

HeliaXDemoN.1208:

Find the kitten damage on this pics:

http://i.imgur.com/BWmHLBO.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IlL49CI.jpg

Do you have nothing better to do than whine that you aren’t very good at fighting thieves?

HeliaXDemoN.1208:

Find the kitten damage on this pics:

http://i.imgur.com/BWmHLBO.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IlL49CI.jpg

Wow your right, thats messed up. a necro autoattack doing more damage than heartseeker? HS is supposed to be a finishing move, but you did more damage with a no cd auto attack? thieves need a buff, thanks for bringing this up

covenn.7165:

sinject.4607:

It’s pretty ridiculous that an ele can just up and simply get downed, then walk into a portal ensuring their safety and revive themselves.

Lowest armor / health pool combination in the game. Considering a full soldier’s ele has less health than a zerker warrior, no cause to complain. If they weren’t so easy to down, you wouldnt be complaining about them getting through the gate.

I’m sure the ele’s would be happy to trade vapor form for 8-10k health and heavier armor so they don’t get downed in the first place.

Armor and health pool are obviously the only things that determine how powerful a class is. Warrior needs to be nerfed.

Straegen.2938:

I can sort of see some frustration with this, but these sorts of differences between classes makes the game better as a whole. If everyone was essentially the same, might as well play a shooter.

Things don’t have to be the same to be balanced. Take some of the better fighter games (VF5FS and KOF XIII for contemporary examples). The characters are very different but when compared to each other it’s all balanced fairly well.

The current downed stats are just way out of wack when compared to each other… and we’re only talking about 3 kitten skills. There is NO good reason for this.

This stupid thread again. Give it a rest. Thieves OP stealth mechanic is a more pressing concern right now than a dead ele getting away. Eles are already the easiest class to kill and hit like a limp kitten anyway. You should be more worried about 10k backstabs from out of nowhere against someone who can always get away from you and you can never catch no matter what because of their insane mobility coupled with that broken stealth.

And guy above me, you wanna talk about balance? Thieves have the only mechanic that has no counter in the game. Boons can be removed, ele’s can be immobilized before they mist form. You can’t remove stealth. When they put in active counter on other classes that can remove stealth, THEN and only then can we talk about nerfing an already pitiful class even further.

Lightsbane.9012:

Chimaster.8165:

Chill out, this class has been nerfed into oblivion.

not nearly as hard as engineer or necromancer in the past. builds were utterly destroyed on engineer. d/d bunker ele is still one of the most powerful things in the game.

If you think D/D is good at WWW you are possibly unexperienced….but if you think that necro is or WAS UP in WWW i suspect you really should play WWW more before judging things..

Its like saying thief is bad at roaming.

How about this.

Just because your profession MIGHT not be as good at one thing. Doesnt mean it should have a blatently overpowered something else.

And Mesmer is ahead of the curve. “ow no, i randomly didnt get teleported out of AoE”. Welcome to Guardian, Engineer, Necro, Warrior and Ranger who cant get out of AoE under any circumstance.
Or avoid getting stomped with near impunity, only and i do mean only if there is but 1 single target around and he is in Stealth will your Mesmer get stomped.
If so much as a critter wanders near you can avoid the first simultaneous stomp from a million players that all have infinite stability, stealth, aegis, a pet to bodyblock while you are blinded for a gazilion years.

Thats more then Guardian, Necro, Engineer, Warrior and Ranger can say… So dont try selling me the bogus that Mesmer downed state is so bad. Its miles better then 5 other professions.

covenn.7165:

sinject.4607:

It’s pretty ridiculous that an ele can just up and simply get downed, then walk into a portal ensuring their safety and revive themselves.

Lowest armor / health pool combination in the game. Considering a full soldier’s ele has less health than a zerker warrior, no cause to complain. If they weren’t so easy to down, you wouldnt be complaining about them getting through the gate.

I’m sure the ele’s would be happy to trade vapor form for 8-10k health and heavier armor so they don’t get downed in the first place.

no one cares
i dont care if it’s elementalists, gaurdians, necros, mesmers, warriors, thieves, rangers, or anything else for that matter that can do this.
the act of being able to enter tower/keep portals while DOWNED within and of itself is what needs to be fixed.
you can’t argue this is fair in any respect because it’s simply not, it’s a flat out unfair advantage.

So true, I read this thread a day or two ago and was like, yah could be annoying but its no big deal. Then the other day we were assaulting bay and this ele, a commander btw which was laughable, literally jumped off the wall, swung willy nilly at people and rams, got downed, misted back in and rezzed, and repeated atleast 10 times. Like wtf. He wasnt really a harm because we would down him as he jumped but kitten it was annoying.

harrjm.5749:

So true, I read this thread a day or two ago and was like, yah could be annoying but its no big deal. Then the other day we were assaulting bay and this ele, a commander btw which was laughable, literally jumped off the wall, swung willy nilly at people and rams, got downed, misted back in and rezzed, and repeated atleast 10 times. Like wtf. He wasnt really a harm because we would down him as he jumped but kitten it was annoying.

Be thankful he didn’t equip a staff and destroy all of your rams from behind the gate. He was doing you a favor and accomplishing nothing.

And he couldn’t have done it 10 times, don’t exaggerate. You die instantly after being downed 3 times.

It’s funny, when you get a chance to pull someone off a wall, it’s almost always an ele. Everyone else is good at only sticking their head out for an instant to fire one skill, eles dgaf. Not hard to tell why

I don’t engage ele’s near towers or keeps anymore, it’s a waste of time.

Aberrant.6749:

You can’t seriously be comparing an ele to a warrior… and come to the conclusion that the ele is the one that needs extra love in WvW…

Not my conclusion at all. That is something you are injecting into my comment that wasn’t there.

I am saying that you should leave vapor form alone because you are complaining about something that required the class to already be in a down state to use…. a class that is extremely easy to put in that state for the most part due to their loss of survivability tools, healing, and mobility over the past months.

sinject.4607:

you can’t argue this is fair in any respect because it’s simply not, it’s a flat out unfair advantage.

Stealth is an unfair advantage too. LEts take that away while we are at it.

LordByron.8369:

Lightsbane.9012:

Chimaster.8165:

Chill out, this class has been nerfed into oblivion.

not nearly as hard as engineer or necromancer in the past. builds were utterly destroyed on engineer. d/d bunker ele is still one of the most powerful things in the game.

If you think D/D is good at WWW you are possibly unexperienced….but if you think that necro is or WAS UP in WWW i suspect you really should play WWW more before judging things..

Its like saying thief is bad at roaming.

Yeah necros are one of the most powerful classes in WvW. There is one ele d/d build with a small variation that is still viable in WvW, but you would still most likely be better off staff in most large scale situations.

Waffler.1257:

Armor and health pool are obviously the only things that determine how powerful a class is. Warrior needs to be nerfed.

…and you missed the point entirely.

Oh, and warriors are a pivotal part of the best WvW guilds.

sinject.4607:

It’s pretty ridiculous that an ele can just up and simply get downed, then walk into a portal ensuring their safety and revive themselves. I’m pretty sure they are the only class with downed movement skills that can do that. Regardless, the mechanic should not even exist, as it removes any penalty of actually going down by acting as a permanent safety net that makes eles impossible to kill near/around towers/keeps.

I know you might say that immobilizing them is how you counter it but it’s rediculous that doing that even needs to be done to kill someone who has already LOST.

To be clear here I’m not saying we should remove vapor form, just it’s ability to allow players to walk through portals.

lmao, another QQ about vapor form, I think this belongs in the l2p category. As an ele I love to troll noob groups that don’t know how to cc or lure away from the portal. if u know its an ele don’t fight in range of the portal. When I’m out d|erpin around roaming my favorite troll is to lure ppl like u to a portal and tie u up time and time again! know this as fact, when we vapor form into the portal all eles laugh at the kitten kitten kitten!! fun times!!!

Edit: post like this make it more fun, to know that it’s kitten ppl off enough to QQ makes it all the more fun!!

I’m an Ele, and I wont lie, I vape form back through portals every chance i get. I agree that they should probably change it so you can’t go through portals.

That said, never has my vaping back into the tower really been a game changing move. It may deny someone a kill, and it may keep you alive a little longer, but if you’re getting dropped in front of your tower chances are that you vaping back in isn’t going to stop the door from going down.

Is vaper forming back into portals annoying? Yes
…is it game changing? No, not really.

Scrambles.2604:

I’m an Ele, and I wont lie, I vape form back through portals every chance i get. I agree that they should probably change it so you can’t go through portals.

That said, never has my vaping back into the tower really been a game changing move. It may deny someone a kill, and it may keep you alive a little longer, but if you’re getting dropped in front of your tower chances are that you vaping back in isn’t going to stop the door from going down.

Is vaper forming back into portals annoying? Yes
…is it game changing? No, not really.

Well, try to solo defend a tower as an engineer by killing the flame ram a small 3-4 man group puts down to break the gate. It is game changing.

stof.9341:

Scrambles.2604:

I’m an Ele, and I wont lie, I vape form back through portals every chance i get. I agree that they should probably change it so you can’t go through portals.

That said, never has my vaping back into the tower really been a game changing move. It may deny someone a kill, and it may keep you alive a little longer, but if you’re getting dropped in front of your tower chances are that you vaping back in isn’t going to stop the door from going down.

Is vaper forming back into portals annoying? Yes
…is it game changing? No, not really.

Well, try to solo defend a tower as an engineer by killing the flame ram a small 3-4 man group puts down to break the gate. It is game changing.

ele can do that safely behind the gate with scepter fire skill 2… easy mode!

stof.9341:

Scrambles.2604:

I’m an Ele, and I wont lie, I vape form back through portals every chance i get. I agree that they should probably change it so you can’t go through portals.

That said, never has my vaping back into the tower really been a game changing move. It may deny someone a kill, and it may keep you alive a little longer, but if you’re getting dropped in front of your tower chances are that you vaping back in isn’t going to stop the door from going down.

Is vaper forming back into portals annoying? Yes
…is it game changing? No, not really.

Well, try to solo defend a tower as an engineer by killing the flame ram a small 3-4 man group puts down to break the gate. It is game changing.

Wait what???
What does that have to do with ele mist form?

On that note engineer vs ram. Engineer pulls out nades & bombs. Good bye ram.

As far as mist form goes. Don’t fight the ele near the tower. You have immobilize use the kittening thing. Ele is one of the kittentiest classes around right now. Nerfed into the ground in enough areas that even if one wanted to duel you could get away on most classes. Staff ele is good in a raid but not much else. They go full zerker just to od OK damage when you could pack out more at range with an engineer.

The whole mistform issue is not new and doesn’t matter. You have to the tools to down the ele. Stop being lazy and do the little bit of work required. This isn’t stealth your’e dealing with. Immobilize and quit the kittening.

I would say the only problem I have with it is the down state. No other down stat skill can go through the portals so I would just say don’t allow eles to as well. Or let other classes with down state ports go through the portals as long as they are in range. I would say doing it while alive should stay as it is. Its already hard enough to get into towers sometimes.

But the real issue is when you down a ele and they mist form. Mist form counts as reviving for a short time so the players WXP is dropped to the minimum. Its not game breaking but a oversight nonetheless and should be fixed.

Agree with this i stopped attacking eles defending towers because of this, you kill them they get invulnerable and revive themselves in keep. and even if you kill them on wall they can still get to safety with mist form.

Zikory.6871:

No other down stat skill can go through the portals so I would just say don’t allow eles to as well.

But the real issue is when you down a ele and they mist form. Mist form counts as reviving for a short time so the players WXP is dropped to the minimum. Its not game breaking but a oversight nonetheless and should be fixed.

Vengeance

Not the same at all but just saying.

also remove thieves stealth… it is way more annoying then elementalist totally situational skill.

TheGuy.3568:

Zikory.6871:

I would say the only problem I have with it is the down state. No other down stat skill can go through the portals so I would just say don’t allow eles to as well. Or let other classes with down state ports go through the portals as long as they are in range. I would say doing it while alive should stay as it is. Its already hard enough to get into towers sometimes.

But the real issue is when you down a ele and they mist form. Mist form counts as reviving for a short time so the players WXP is dropped to the minimum. Its not game breaking but a oversight nonetheless and should be fixed.

Vengeance

Just saying.

Yup same issue, I just didn’t bring it up due to the conversation being on Eles. Though I do find it to be less of a issue due to the CD on Vengeance. In most small fights you can kill a Warrior before he has a chance to use it. Unlike the Ele.