Guild Wars 2

WE should all be able to be like Forest Gump, When someone goes down outside a keep we use a skill to drag them to safety. Ice Cream Commander Dan?

The people complaining about this the most are probably the people
who can pull people off walls (thief and mesmer). If you want to stop
vapor form from going through portals, how about prevent pull downs
if we are trying to level the playing field for all classes.

Thunderbrew.7034:

The people complaining about this the most are probably the people
who can pull people off walls (thief and mesmer). If you want to stop
vapor form from going through portals, how about prevent pull downs
if we are trying to level the playing field for all classes.

Nope, sorry to mess up your stereotyping but I’m a Warrior and I made the thread.

I stand corrected than. I also have a 80 warrior as my main,
but this issue doesnt matter to me. Its the same thing as another
class escaping away from death (stealth, heartseek jumps, etc)
and just part of the mechanics.

Those are different in that they are not downed state abilities.

Let them keep their mobility but take away their immunity to everything. You would still have a way to escape but still be screwed if someone immobilizes your or dps’s you on the spot. No one should have a free escape from death unless we all have it.

/signed an engineer with horrible down skills

just because you couldnt finish an elem which dropped from walls and had to use vapor form or mist form to go back inside, doesnt mean it has to be removed.

besides this is like me complaining about i killed a thief then he used stealth when i was about to finish, and then some of his friends appeared, saved him and killed me…i mean totally unfair i killed him right?

this class is practically the most squishy in all aspects no matter what you say.

I am fine with them taking away moving through portals in vapor form, as long as you give us eles a base health increase to compensate for it.

things that prevent kills don’t bother me nearly as much as do broken mechanics that guarantee that other can kill me. Therefore, I really don’t have an issue with this, cheesy though it may be. I am much more concerned about things like perma stealth.

JemL.3501:

just because you couldnt finish an elem which dropped from walls and had to use vapor form or mist form to go back inside, doesnt mean it has to be removed.

besides this is like me complaining about i killed a thief then he used stealth when i was about to finish, and then some of his friends appeared, saved him and killed me…i mean totally unfair i killed him right?

this class is practically the most squishy in all aspects no matter what you say.

Agreed. I cant tell you how many times I “killed” someone, than the one of following
happened:

1) Got rallied

2) Speed rezzed

3) Stealth long enough for allies to assist

Whats the difference? It amazes me that people are spending time on issues like
this when THE issue isnt fixed yet: Mesmer bombing taking advantage of culling
issues and you die to an enemy you never saw.

As stated, Eles have the lowest HP pool and survivability of any of the classes
so having this vapor form portal problem is so minor. I know, people will
mention d/d eles and how good they are, but Im talking about all of the other
specs. Any other specced ele that gets pulled off a wall is dead, so the portal
thing is welcome.

Minor problem? Hardly. At times it is even game-breaking.

Hordes of Elementalists (they really are the flavour of the month in WvW) coming to defend the keep your attacking. You can’t stop them entering and they can harass you without fear of reprisal as long as they are within running distance to the gate portal.

It really shouldn’t allow you to enter the portals. No other class can pull this cheesy move off. It is imbalanced.

Oglaf.1074:

Minor problem? Hardly. At times it is even game-breaking.

Hordes of Elementalists (they really are the flavour of the month in WvW) coming to defend the keep your attacking. You can’t stop them entering and they can harass you without fear of reprisal as long as they are within running distance to the gate portal.

It really shouldn’t allow you to enter the portals. No other class can pull this cheesy move off. It is imbalanced.

I see many more thieves than I do elementalists in wvwvw, and i think the permastealth issues are far more game breaking than are portal issues.

Wow really? Im not sure what WvW you are in, but Eles certainly
are not in mass packs where Im at. Even more so, Ive never in
4 months of playing WvW ever said "wow those eles are preventing
us from taking this keep.

And please stop using the term “game breaking” for things that MOST
certainly are not. Once again, culling issues is game breaking, not this
effect.

Thief after being downed don’t have ability to run into the structure and recover in safety like ele – imho ability to use portals should be removed from vapour form skill because it’s unfair

Griszek.9014:

Thief after being downed don’t have ability to run into the structure and recover in safety like ele – imho ability to use portals should be removed from vapour form skill because it’s unfair

They are just inivisible. That’s actually worse.

Columba.9730:

Griszek.9014:

Thief after being downed don’t have ability to run into the structure and recover in safety like ele – imho ability to use portals should be removed from vapour form skill because it’s unfair

They are just inivisible. That’s actually worse.

Except they have to do so before being downed, while an ele can get downed and then get back in without trouble.

Thunderbrew.7034:

It amazes me that people are spending time on issues like
this when THE issue isnt fixed yet: Mesmer bombing taking advantage of culling
issues and you die to an enemy you never saw.

How in christ is that THE issue?

Portal bombs are one of the easiest tactics to counter.
I’ve seen far more of them fail than I have seen succeed.

If you’re losing to a portal bomb, you would have likely been beaten in head on battle too.

Limiting the #s on portal bombing was a good fix. It’s fine now.

I’m sure if this ability is removed there will be another ton of threads about something else next until all the classes are identical and boring.

Telling people to immobilize an ele before they hit vapor form is pointless, because if they’re spamming the 2 button, which they likely are in a group fight, or trying to escape, then there is 0 chance of them getting hit by the immobilize. Blame the pointless and annoying invulnerability on down buff (which also needs removing).

If you’re going to remove Ele’s ability to use keep portals when downed, then ok, fair enough. I personally agree that it should be changed. But they need to fix the double downed penalty we receive every time we use vapor form to compensate. That seems like a fair tradeoff.

For now, if you’re attacking a structure, surely people have Scorpion Wire, Spectral Grasp or any other pull equipped. Anyone stands on the edge, pull them down, get a kill. Any Eles get pulled off the edge? Pull them away again from the portal and down them. Laugh as they try to vapor form back inside, but fall short of the portal.

And if you know you’re about to take damage, switch to damage reduction / mitigation / stunbreaker weapon sets and utilities. Complaining about Ele’s ability to get inside keeps after downed is pointless seeing as many other professions can do the same while still up.

Can also ask a mesmer to port you inside. I’ve saved people numerous times with a well timed escape portal.

EnRohbi.2187:

Thunderbrew.7034:

It amazes me that people are spending time on issues like
this when THE issue isnt fixed yet: Mesmer bombing taking advantage of culling
issues and you die to an enemy you never saw.

How in christ is that THE issue?

Portal bombs are one of the easiest tactics to counter.
I’ve seen far more of them fail than I have seen succeed.

If you’re losing to a portal bomb, you would have likely been beaten in head on battle too.

Wow relax a little bit. OK let me rephrase: “Mesmer bombing is certainly more
game breaking than vapor form.” Hows that?

First of all, our guild on SOR relies on the tactic, and if I think someone is doing to us, I run. In general, please explain to me how 20+ people not loading in to the enemy can be countered? Im assuming you know how the mesmer bomb works and how culling is a problem.

Sure “kill the mesmer running in.” In big keep battles, you will never see it coming
By “easily countered” Im assuming you mean kill the mesmer, right? Im talking about battles of 15+ each side, in where the mesmer stealths into you to begin with (thief help).

Binafus.8153:

I’m sure Ele’s would take Stealth and give up mist form.

Or better yet make all classes exactly the same, morons.

I’ll give up my 2s of downed stealth that is useful against morons for vapor form any day.

Gab Superstar.4059:

This.

Although it always makes me laugh when an ele runs out of H2O inches away from the portal.

I’ll admit it – I totally did this today. ALMOST made it to the portal. Needless to say, I was one dead little Ele.

I’ll agree that it could seem a little unfair…but there are a lot of downed skills that could be called unfair. Being stealth-res’d…pet ressing…mist form escape…mesmer porting/cloning AND getting a strong clone to attack you…and the mesmer fake-res skill (can’t remember name, sorry). And you can still stop Eles from misting out of harm’s way – immobilize has kept me from ducking into safety many many times.

Thunderbrew.7034:

EnRohbi.2187:

Thunderbrew.7034:

It amazes me that people are spending time on issues like
this when THE issue isnt fixed yet: Mesmer bombing taking advantage of culling
issues and you die to an enemy you never saw.

How in christ is that THE issue?

Portal bombs are one of the easiest tactics to counter.
I’ve seen far more of them fail than I have seen succeed.

If you’re losing to a portal bomb, you would have likely been beaten in head on battle too.

Wow relax a little bit. OK let me rephrase: “Mesmer bombing is certainly more
game breaking than vapor form.” Hows that?

First of all, our guild on SOR relies on the tactic, and if I think someone is doing to us, I run. In general, please explain to me how 20+ people not loading in to the enemy can be countered? Im assuming you know how the mesmer bomb works and how culling is a problem.

Sure “kill the mesmer running in.” In big keep battles, you will never see it coming
By “easily countered” Im assuming you mean kill the mesmer, right? Im talking about battles of 15+ each side, in where the mesmer stealths into you to begin with (thief help).

Culling is only like 40% as bad as people claim it is.
Tab targetting doesn’t care about culling,
auto-targetting doesn’t care about culling.
AOE damage doesn’t care about culling
If you have any idea what direction your enemy is in, you can still target them culling or no culling.

And the thing about Portal Bombing, is it gives you a big bright purple round target that says “FARM THE 20 PLAYERS STANDING RIGHT HERE”. Because 19 times out of 20, the group that goes through the portal will not be smart enough to scatter when they come out the other side.

I like how people keep mentioning the ranger pet revive, that skill hardly ever works.

Thunderbrew.7034:

The people complaining about this the most are probably the people
who can pull people off walls (thief and mesmer). If you want to stop
vapor form from going through portals, how about prevent pull downs
if we are trying to level the playing field for all classes.

As a thief. I’d gladly trade scorpion wire for vapour form. Heck, I’ll even throw in my down blink skill for free!

As a thief. I am squishier than a D/D ele that can burst you down, tank in earth attunement, heal in water attunement, run off faster than I can in air attunement. Then if they’re low on health, still run away with mist form.

On top of that. If you incredibly managed to down one. They laugh their way into a gate portal with vapour form with this as the theme song:

Immobilize doesn’t work on vapour form. Because they have invulnerability whilst going down -> nano second of time before they hit their vapour mist button -> invulnerability as they float off to safety.

I think that more than justifies a change.

Oglaf.1074:

Minor problem? Hardly. At times it is even game-breaking.

You can’t stop them entering and they can harass you without fear of reprisal as long as they are within running distance to the gate portal.

It really shouldn’t allow you to enter the portals. No other class can pull this cheesy move off. It is imbalanced.

No, culling thief stealth is gamebreaking.
And stealth stomping… even worse!
And yes you can stop them from entering the keep, before they die(easy to see since their hp is dropping) just root them. If they switch to water mid-vapor form root again (if its outside a keep there should be more than enough roots, not cooperating and using them wisely is another matter altogether)

@Azure Prower
Of course, scorpion wire is no where near as useful.
How about trade some of your stealth for it? Fair trade, your survivability for theirs?

Oh. If people haven’t also realized. Elementalists are also the ultimate defenders in WvW. All you need is a bunch of eles and you are gaurenteed to successfully defend your towers and keeps.

Zerg at your door? Rain down fire and light them up!
Get downed on the walls of the structure you’re defending? No problem! Vapour form hover away to safety!

Zerg planting down catapults from a short distance? Get your elementalist engines ready!
Step 1: Focus block with swirling winds.
Step 2: “Suicide” run to their siege. Drop your AOEs of fiery death!
(Step 3: Get downed.)
Step 4: Float back to safety with mist (/vapour) form!

Trebs hitting your structures? Focus block with swirling winds and be the hero of the day!

What can a thief do? Fire a cluster bomb every 5 seconds that does squat all? Man a cannon where they melt to AOE?

Truly Elementalists are balanced…

OK take it away but give Eles an interrupt as a replacement.

Either make vapor formed elementalist to unable to enter portal, or change it to something like endure pain where only direct damage was prevented, but still susceptible to CC and condition damage. (But I’m not sure how will that change affects PvE and PvP.)

I honestly don’t mind vapor form /that/ much.
But, I have guildies that I like coordinating ridiculous things with, if I ever had a real problem with vapor form I would just get like 5 mesmers to coordinate pulls to get him way far from the gate before we killed him.

I’m well aware this is not a practical plan for a lot of situations, but the mechanics aren’t that broken.

I would consider it a completely appropriate patch if they nerfed it so vapor form doesn’t go through portals though. They don’t need to change the skill at all otherwise.

Biggest question I can ask is:

When you are in mist form, on your buff bar, do you lose the boon that states that you are downed? If not, then it means, in the game mechanics, when the mist form is actually doing is “rezzing” the player, making them invuln and in mist for for the time, then “downs” them again. This would explain why using it counts as 2 downed states.

If that is the case, then the fact they can use it is 100% a bug, since it is a downed state skill, and you are still technically “downed”. My guess is, this was the best way they could do it, since in the downed state you cannot move normally. If this is the case, then they should fix the bug (like adding another condition on the portals that you cannot go in with the mist form icon on your buff bar, similar to how it works with the downed state).

As for those ele’s crying about how they’re being targetted, I have one thing to say to you: GET OVER IT. As a mesmer, they’ve nerfed quite a few of our stuff because of QQ on forums. Yet we move on. If your saying you NEED mist form in WvW, then I’m sorry, but you probably just camp next to portals anyways. If they were to get rid of (which I don’t think they should do), I’m sure you all would learn to just deal with it. It isn’t a critical skill, at all.

For those, for some reason, complaining about portals in this thread, I have this to say to you: Please, PLEASE look up my responses to other QQ threads about it. It is such a cop out to say it’s OP because of culling. Why? Because the big pink glowing sign that tells you “PEOPLE HERE!!” is not affected by culling. The attackers have culling issues (they cannot see you! GASP!). When you see it, throw a few AoE’s and CC’s, and you have just farmed bags. A supermajority of portal bombs fail miserably, all you get is free loot bags. So please, stop whining about it. It doesn’t make people invuln, all it does it let people into keeps (only if you never sweep…it really is easy if you spend 1 minute securing your own tower/keep with 5 people), and is the ONLY game mechanic which actually gives you a big sign pointing to where the bad guys are going to be. It’s not stealthy at ALL.

Anyways, in summary: It is most likely a bug. Everyone who whines about it: yes, it sucks, but who cares. It’s only one of many broken mechanics which the devs will probably never address (notice no ANet employees have commented on this issue ever). To eles: Stop getting kitten that someone is whining about your skill. Be glad they aren’t demanding your nerfs to your firestorms or your projectile blocks. You have a skill that uses a funky mechanic and people don’t like it. Deal with it and stop getting all defensive with your excuses. It’s a cheesy way to avoid dying. Accept it. It’s ok, every player uses cheesy method.

Sorry for the longish post, but threads like this kinda bug me -.- Since people QQing about stuff like this is why my class got the nerf-hammer several times.

You’re still technically downed, with all the benefits/penalties that provides.

Other classes have skills that I would love to have, but I’m not going to attempt to call nerf to another classes because I want my class to play like theirs.

Next time you see a Ele fighting near a tower portal maybe pull him away before finally killing him.

Take mist form away but I want medium or heavy armor as a replacement.

This thread is ridiculous. Vapor Form would be perfect if you couldn’t go through the tower/keep gates with it. The movement provided to stop a stomp is annoying but thieves and mesmers can do it also. Yes, it goes a little further but you also see exactly where they are going. The only issue is being able to walk right into the tower after pulling pulled/downed outside. No other class can go in through the gate, even if they are touching it.

Mist Form is fine, it’s no different than elixir s, traited death shroud, endure pain, etc.

I don’t see a problem with it. Engineers get roughly the same thing with automatic Elixir S, except instead of being downed it happens automatically at 25% health. That lets me run outside and fight and safely make it back inside 19 times out of 20.

The 1 time it fails is the same as for when vapor form fails: when someone realizes they can still root me.

Slamz.5376:

I don’t see a problem with it. Engineers get roughly the same thing with automatic Elixir S, except instead of being downed it happens automatically at 25% health. That lets me run outside and fight and safely make it back inside 19 times out of 20.

The 1 time it fails is the same as for when vapor form fails: when someone realizes they can still root me.

That is something you have to trait for and has a 90 second cooldown.

Thenoob.1480:

Slamz.5376:

I don’t see a problem with it. Engineers get roughly the same thing with automatic Elixir S, except instead of being downed it happens automatically at 25% health. That lets me run outside and fight and safely make it back inside 19 times out of 20.

The 1 time it fails is the same as for when vapor form fails: when someone realizes they can still root me.

That is something you have to trait for and has a 90 second cooldown.

And doesn’t strip Immobilize from you like getting downed will.