Guild Wars 2

So basically when you ask “why are we exploiting culling?” the answer is “everyone is doing it” .

To compete in open field, you have to move as a blob, run through a Veil, and explode into the enemy who still cant see or target you for several seconds after you de-stealth , while you smash them all to death.
If this fails, you run away , hide or circle round, reposition your blob , cast a new Veil and repeat the process. If you dont do this, you will likely be smashed by an invisible enemy blob.

Open field WvW has become cavalry charges of invisible blobs against each other, each trying to outmanouver the other into being the ones who cannot see their enemy.

Many top guilds are doing it, there is obviously a skill and co-ordination required to to do it well, but its hardly healthy for the game that such an obvious abuse of culling/rendering has become the must have strategy to win.
Its become all about render bombing them with veil, before they can render bomb you.

Veil effectively lets you stealth 60+ ppl at the same time, its far more effective then portal bombing ever was when used by co-ordinated teams. It lasts for 8-10 seconds meaning an awful lot of ppl can run through the same veil.

So I’m asking the bigger guilds that use this, are you really content with this type of combat or would you rather that neither side has to rely on blatant culling abuse to win a fight?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Veil

Veil isn’t really the thing you are experiencing. Veils dont stack and u have 1sec debuff after you leave the first veil. This allows you to see the enemy group running into you and gives you time to react.

I’ve never had a problem with it, just because you can’t see them doesn’t mean they aren’t there. That said in comparison to Mass Invisibility, for the purpose of WvW the ability is somewhat OP.

step 1: get a guild of 40+ people
step 2: get them to use all their invisibility skills
step 3: run into pug zerg and spam melee attacks and aoe
step 4: collect lewt

bonus points if you do something clever like portal around the side of a wall

Vynt.5218:

Veil isn’t really the thing you are experiencing. Veils dont stack and u have 1sec debuff after you leave the first veil. This allows you to see the enemy group running into you and gives you time to react.

Well, not quite.
The Veil stands there for 8 secs, meanwhile an entire zerg blob can run though it, they all will receive a 3-4 sec stealth as they pass through.
When their stealth wears off , they will remain invisible for 2-4 secs due to culling/rendering.

This allows a charging blob to drop a veil at quite a long range , before they initially render to the enemy, and then still reach their target within their 5-8 seconds of stealth/rendering and begin smashing against ppl who will never get to see them before they die.

Obviously, with clever use terrain, they can drop the veil at even closer range getting more of an advantage.

The root cause of the issue here is that Veil does not adhere to the usual AoE rules of ‘max 5 players’.

If Veil only stealthed 5 people then I think people would be OK with that.

Shadow Refuge only stealths 5, the same should apply for Veil.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

The root cause of the issue here is that Veil does not adhere to the usual AoE rules of ‘max 5 players’.

If Veil only stealthed 5 people then I think people would be OK with that.

Shadow Refuge only stealths 5, the same should apply for Veil.

I’ve been using Veil for months. Seeing it become the new “it” skill makes me sad because I am sure it will now be nerfed into oblivion.

The bigger problem is culling. Peole have said it above. Culling lets the stealth last longer than it should and the recent patch made it even worse.

Shadow refuge also lasts for 10 seconds. If they up Veil to 10 second would not be opposed to the 5 person limit.

The funny thing to me is that on the Mesmer forums the skill is still basically derided as a wasted utility slot.

you complain about veil man? but i see no post on mass invisabillity? mass invisabillity stacks 5 seconds of stealth to all nearby allies with a HUGE 1200 radius.

Aurika.6751:

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

The root cause of the issue here is that Veil does not adhere to the usual AoE rules of ‘max 5 players’.

If Veil only stealthed 5 people then I think people would be OK with that.

Shadow Refuge only stealths 5, the same should apply for Veil.

I’ve been using Veil for months. Seeing it become the new “it” skill makes me sad because I am sure it will now be nerfed into oblivion.

The bigger problem is culling. Peole have said it above. Culling lets the stealth last longer than it should and the recent patch made it even worse.

Shadow refuge also lasts for 10 seconds. If they up Veil to 10 second would not be opposed to the 5 person limit.

The funny thing to me is that on the Mesmer forums the skill is still basically derided as a wasted utility slot.

Your veil is comparable to Thief’s blinding powder. If you want 10 second Veil. Give thieves 10 second blinding powder.

Oh and blinding powder already only stealths 5 players at a time.

Yeah, synchronised spwamming. Boring, boring, boring, so boring.

You nubs don’t realise there is a massive 90 second cooldown, much longer than blinding powder and shadow refuge

Henrik.7560:

you complain about veil man? but i see no post on mass invisabillity? mass invisabillity stacks 5 seconds of stealth to all nearby allies with a HUGE 1200 radius.

No, MI USED to hit every friendly … it’s been 5-target AoE for some time now. And, THAT is why Mesmers rip on Veil so bloody hard – it’s silly, a util-stealth with better #‘s of cloaked targets than a frigging ELITE. With that said, Veil’s targeting point doesn’t last all that long. Even with massive Swiftness, it’d be shredded before the OP’s mentioned 60 people got through.

Easy fix: Give MI a slightly buffed # of targets (say like 10, for instance). Or, some duration mods. Then, it’s truly an “Elite” skill, by comparison.

Mesmer is the only class ingame that can have 3 elites in the skill bar.

Advent.6193:

With that said, Veil’s targeting point doesn’t last all that long. Even with massive Swiftness, it’d be shredded before the OP’s mentioned 60 people got through.

Actually I have tested it in game, it lasts for 6 seconds, or 8 seconds when traited for longer lasting glamours.

Until ArenaNet changes the mechanics of play, the use of such mechanics will not change.

While the guilds/people within the community help to prop up WvW the fact is its been lacking for some time.

In all seriousness the culling/rendering issue should have been solved before release. The fact that we are now 6 months in means either:
1) ArenaNet neglect WvW, as its not a priority
2) Are unable to fix the problems in WvW
3) Combination of both.

Blix.8021:

step 1: get a guild of 40+ people
step 2: get them to use all their invisibility skills
step 3: run into pug zerg and spam melee attacks and aoe
step 4: collect lewt

bonus points if you do something clever like portal around the side of a wall

We do it as 5-10 people against 40… Works too .:P
Or actually: We do nto use veil. We pop shadow refuge around a corner, go in. If we need to retreat we go for mass invis.

and this is why mesmers can’t have nice things.

Azure Prower.8701:

Aurika.6751:

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

The root cause of the issue here is that Veil does not adhere to the usual AoE rules of ‘max 5 players’.

If Veil only stealthed 5 people then I think people would be OK with that.

Shadow Refuge only stealths 5, the same should apply for Veil.

I’ve been using Veil for months. Seeing it become the new “it” skill makes me sad because I am sure it will now be nerfed into oblivion.

The bigger problem is culling. Peole have said it above. Culling lets the stealth last longer than it should and the recent patch made it even worse.

Shadow refuge also lasts for 10 seconds. If they up Veil to 10 second would not be opposed to the 5 person limit.

The funny thing to me is that on the Mesmer forums the skill is still basically derided as a wasted utility slot.

Your veil is comparable to Thief’s blinding powder. If you want 10 second Veil. Give thieves 10 second blinding powder.

Oh and blinding powder already only stealths 5 players at a time.

Good call…Thieves obviously need a buff to keep pace with the indisputably OP Mesmer.

crewthief.8649:

Good call…Thieves obviously need a buff to keep pace with the indisputably OP Mesmer.

Yer its been awhile, lets start a new thief thread.

all forms of stealth cause issues in wvw

the only real way is to do something about the way stealth works – perhaps change it to make people transparent but still visible so the model has to render, would fix a lot of issues just with that one change

Azure Prower.8701:

Aurika.6751:

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

The root cause of the issue here is that Veil does not adhere to the usual AoE rules of ‘max 5 players’.

If Veil only stealthed 5 people then I think people would be OK with that.

Shadow Refuge only stealths 5, the same should apply for Veil.

I’ve been using Veil for months. Seeing it become the new “it” skill makes me sad because I am sure it will now be nerfed into oblivion.

The bigger problem is culling. Peole have said it above. Culling lets the stealth last longer than it should and the recent patch made it even worse.

Shadow refuge also lasts for 10 seconds. If they up Veil to 10 second would not be opposed to the 5 person limit.

The funny thing to me is that on the Mesmer forums the skill is still basically derided as a wasted utility slot.

Your veil is comparable to Thief’s blinding powder. If you want 10 second Veil. Give thieves 10 second blinding powder.

Oh and blinding powder already only stealths 5 players at a time.

I’m wondering how a skill that has a cast time and you have to place on the ground and then run through, with a 90 second cooldown compares to an instant cast with low cooldown..