This is a proposed change to deal with the problem of venom wells in wvw. For those of you who dont know, venom wells are when a thief groups with necros and gives them immob. Each time the well pulses, a immob is reapplied. There is currently no counter and it gets abused. I believe a number of things can be done to counteract this sort of thing.
The first solution is to look at immob as a whole. Right now it is the strongest cc condition in the game. A good change would be allowing ppl to dodge roll while immobalized. This will help counteract some cheesy play by stacking this condition on single targets.
Another solution to counter the strength of venom share in general, would be to make it so the condition is applied from weapon skills only. Utilities no longer proc it. This means wells cannot keep pulsing immobilize on an opponent.
if anyone has any better ideas. feel free to post below.
I really like the dodge idea. thieves already use shortbow 3 when they get immobed and its basically the same function.
Well venoms need change. More people than not seem to consider it unfavorable and an unbalanced tactic (especially pins). And as a thief main I can tell you its not that much fun to play in large zerg fights. Sure you know you are helping a great deal, but it is a simple minded way to play. Just go to your party and press wells, don’t die, repeat. I’ve also tried hybrid builds where I can apply devouror and bassy while still specing into 2/0/6/0/6 to pack my own small punch. Its meh….I’ts okay.
With the new traits system coming into play thieves will only have to spec into shadow arts for a full effect of venom sharing as compared to right now having to spec into deadly arts as well. The base venom stack being +1’d as well makes for a VERY potent venom share build with the ability for the thief to also pack a huge punch of their own when they go down 3 trait lines fully. I know I don’t have 100% of the context yet as not all the specializations are out in time for this update but I urge the balance team to keep venom wells in mind when pushing this upcoming patch.
I would have to agree that it is absurdly strong in groups. If you cross a group with a venomshare Thief or two, you’re pretty much toast. As soon as one person touches you you get nuked with every condition in the book on top of Basilisk Venom a bunch of times. I won’t say nerf it because I completely agree that Thieves do need some groups support skills but kitten … It is one hell of a support skill if they know when to use it. On my conditionmancer, with 2.4k condition damage, a venomshare Thief giving me his venoms is just lolz for whomever is unfortunate enough to get hit by me afterwards.
Why are people complaining now? I’ve been STRONGLY pushing and advocating venomshare thieves for 2 years and up until now, people just said “no, venomshare too ez cleanse”.
Immob has been a problem in this game for a long time. They’ve done nothing to fix it before so I’m not sure why they’d fix it now. I suspect the answer were likely to get is simply to not get caught in the wells enmass.
Immob has been a problem in this game for a long time. They’ve done nothing to fix it before so I’m not sure why they’d fix it now. I suspect the answer were likely to get is simply to not get caught in the wells enmass.
They fixed immob by making it stack duration..
Big Babou, Ranger for life.
Madness Rises [Rise] – Banners Hold.
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Why are people complaining now? I’ve been STRONGLY pushing and advocating venomshare thieves for 2 years and up until now, people just said “no, venomshare too ez cleanse”.
its not venomshare, its the immob and its ability to stack in duration on single targets.
There is nothing wrong with immobilize or this tactic in my opinion. There are several professions with skill that remove immobilize and function as a leap. They solve this issue for me every time. Dodging works wonders as well.
another fine tactic is to simply not run through wells when you can avoid it.
OP, what is your main profession? Should skills on your main be nerfed because a forums poster suggest a skill you us in conjuction with your team mates, in a group setting, inconvenience them?
There is nothing wrong with immobilize or this tactic in my opinion. There are several professions with skill that remove immobilize and function as a leap. They solve this issue for me every time. Dodging works wonders as well.
another fine tactic is to simply not run through wells when you can avoid it.
OP, what is your main profession? Should skills on your main be nerfed because a forums poster suggest a skill you us in conjuction with your team mates, in a group setting, inconvenience them?
i play ele. no i dont get caught in wells. Frontline and necros do though. nothing i suggested will nerf venoms.
There is nothing wrong with immobilize or this tactic in my opinion. There are several professions with skill that remove immobilize and function as a leap. They solve this issue for me every time. Dodging works wonders as well.
another fine tactic is to simply not run through wells when you can avoid it.
OP, what is your main profession? Should skills on your main be nerfed because a forums poster suggest a skill you us in conjuction with your team mates, in a group setting, inconvenience them?
i play ele. no i dont get caught in wells. Frontline and necros do though. nothing i suggested will nerf venoms.
I am not entirely certain you understand what “nerf” means.
Making “only” weapon skills function with them is an absolute nerf to group game play in a group oriented game by removing existing functionality. Both your suggestions are certainly nerfs. Nerfs that I feel are not needed.
Personally I feel eles access to AoE CC, damage, and heals to be problematic. Should the duration of those ele skills that are AoE be cut in half simply because I deem them problematic? You are suggesting they nerf another professions skills simply because you deem them provlematic. So by your precdent, they should nerf ele’s based on that standard.
There is nothing wrong with immobilize or this tactic in my opinion. There are several professions with skill that remove immobilize and function as a leap. They solve this issue for me every time. Dodging works wonders as well.
another fine tactic is to simply not run through wells when you can avoid it.
OP, what is your main profession? Should skills on your main be nerfed because a forums poster suggest a skill you us in conjuction with your team mates, in a group setting, inconvenience them?
i play ele. no i dont get caught in wells. Frontline and necros do though. nothing i suggested will nerf venoms.
I am not entirely certain you understand what “nerf” means.
Making “only” weapon skills function with them is an absolute nerf to group game play in a group oriented game by removing existing functionality. Both your suggestions are certainly nerfs. Nerfs that I feel are not needed.
Personally I feel eles access to AoE CC, damage, and heals to be problematic. Should the duration of those ele skills that are AoE be cut in half simply because I deem them problematic? You are suggesting they nerf another professions skills simply because you deem them provlematic. So by your precdent, they should nerf ele’s based on that standard.
There are no counters to venom wells. Honestly I am not going to argue with you. Everyone knows that its cancer to the game.
Indeed there are. I listed a few. Rocket boots for example is one. There are multiple launch skills with evades that counter it as well. A dodge is counter to to almost everything. Particularly this. It would be helpful if you would avoid the fallacy of claiming “there is no counter” when a dodge will counter it, or several other weapons skills or utilities.
If you like, you can name a profession, and I will gladly explain how it can counter it. I will be happy to educate you on counters. I am always glad to help you out.
Well they are adding that new boon, I believe it’s called resistance, so if there’s a way to apply that to a party (probably guardian will get an ability that does this), then there will be more counter play to this venom well issue that you’re having. There are some classes that can already handle venom wells pretty easily. Heck, I imagine if you just have one guardian in your party running Purging Flame specifically to deal with that sort of well bomb you’ll be much better off.
Personally, I have yet to have an issue with venom wells, but I also pay extremely close attention to the list of boons and condis on an enemy’s status bar, so if I see a group sporting venoms I naturally play a bit more cautious around them. You can’t expect to just be able to run into every enemy group and use the same exact rotation of skills in every fight and win. Sometimes you’ll find yourself facing a group composition/strategy that outshines yours, and you’ll have to tweak something. That’s the beauty of PvP gameplay. What some people call cheese, others call strategy. But until you change what you’re doing to beat that “cheese”, you’re going to keep getting beat by that strategy that you consider cheap (even though it beats you! ).
So you want me to teach you how to avoid venom share wells on a necro and a thief?
necros probably suffer the most from being caught. how do you suppose to counter it?
+1. As as Necro main, I might have 2 transfers and a full cleanse with my build but it very rarely saves me. If I get immob stacked and a group and/or zerg is coming at me there’s at least a 90% chance of fatality. The most I can hope for is that I can facetank it long enough to wait out the duration, then facetank some more until I can get in a tower.
So you want me to teach you how to avoid venom share wells on a necro and a thief?
necros probably suffer the most from being caught. how do you suppose to counter it?
Well of power helps. Putrid mark, consume conditions, in conjunction with a dodge, all work wonders and are common skills used in WvW. As well a preemptive dodge, and battlefield awareness not to overextended as a backline necro. Fairly basic play in my opinion.
Fumigate from your friendly engineer, warrior war horn removing conditions, and many other number of skills from your team should also be helpful.
in my personal opinion, if you have difficulty with conditions in group play in WvW, your doing something wrong.
One profession having particular difficulty with combined skills from 2 or more other professions or players, doesn’t even come close to defining it as a problem.
There’s only so much times you can avoid venom well bombs until you get caught by one. That one time you get caught it’s instant game over. Not only this, venoms are a massive problem in small scale. There’s only so much on demand condi clear in small groups.
Anet doesn’t care about how skills affect WvW. Its probably fine in some other area of the game and that’s all Anet cares about.
How can they? You point out a person who claims to be capable of balancing such large scale combat, and I can point out a delusional madman.
A. Long before release, they specifically stated WvW obviously could not, there for would not be intended for balance.
2. This is a complaint about multiple professions working together to do something stronger then either one can do alone. Kind of an MMO concept.
}. It isn’t much of a problem in the first place. If this is an issue, particularly to a necro, you were playing poorly enough to be in the wrong place. That is your fault, not the fault of the other teams ability to intelligently work together with various professions for the mutual benefit of their team.
Sounds like clever group synergy but I do agree regarding immobilization stacking and the condition in general it definitely needs to be reworked, as well as the skills that apply it. The stacking needs to be reverted and the immob in air bug definitely needs to be fixed though IMO
I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<
Sounds like clever group synergy but I do agree regarding immobilization stacking and the condition in general it definitely needs to be reworked, as well as the skills that apply it. The stacking needs to be reverted and the immob in air bug definitely needs to be fixed though IMO
Well, they definitely need to solve the “in air” bug. I do not agree that the stacking should be reverted. We had ten times more complaints about it when it was the other way. Besides, it wouldn’t solve the issue of pulsing immobilizes, which is the complain here. Pulsing would circumvent it anyway, if they did revert the change.
Anet doesn’t care about how skills affect WvW. Its probably fine in some other area of the game and that’s all Anet cares about.
How can they? You point out a person who claims to be capable of balancing such large scale combat, and I can point out a delusional madman.
A. Long before release, they specifically stated WvW obviously could not, there for would not be intended for balance.
2. This is a complaint about multiple professions working together to do something stronger then either one can do alone. Kind of an MMO concept.
}. It isn’t much of a problem in the first place. If this is an issue, particularly to a necro, you were playing poorly enough to be in the wrong place. That is your fault, not the fault of the other teams ability to intelligently work together with various professions for the mutual benefit of their team.
Since I was infracted and assume you were too, let me see if I can phrase this where it won’t draw the ire of the overlords…
So we agree then. Anet is not going to alter skills, traits, etc. just for WvW. No matter how deleterious the effects are for people playing WvW.
Why wouldn’t they? They have in the past. Why would they here? This seems like a great intended design. I don’t understand the complaints about profession being strong when the coordinate and work together. Isn’t that the point of organized, large scale fights?
The thing is, as a necromancer player I do hate that this is the only acceptable role my profession is allowed to have in WvW.
However it is so easily countered. I can be feared and otherwise CCed all day long. If I make a single positioning mistake I die.
To get it off takes multiple people on voice comms coordinating. In short for this tactic to be effective you have to outplayed the enemy so completely that even if you nerfed necromancers and VS out of the meta you probably would have won anyway.
The problem is this isn’t great design. These are currently the only two acceptable builds for these two professions in mass combat.
The thing is, as a necromancer player I do hate that this is the only acceptable role my profession is allowed to have in WvW.
However it is so easily countered. I can be feared and otherwise CCed all day long. If I make a single positioning mistake I die.
To get it off takes multiple people on voice comms coordinating. In short for this tactic to be effective you have to outplayed the enemy so completely that even if you nerfed necromancers and VS out of the meta you probably would have won anyway.
The problem is this isn’t great design. These are currently the only two acceptable builds for these two professions in mass combat.
gank is an important role in mass combat. a gvg team without gank these days cripples their ability to do damage on a backline.
I should clarify I consider a pick thief to not be a definitive zerg centric build, but rather a useful and often essential role a player who is not part of the GWEN meta can assume.
That’s a necro issue,don’t nerf venoms yes it’s a nerf for necro like they did for mesmer glamour bombing that’s not a proper way to help. Every class deserves a spec for all modes with proper tradeoffs again stop helping necro that way.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140 The Dhuumfire thread
People who think venomshare in wvw is fine as it is clearly just have not played any competent groups. And yes it’s the immobilize venom that’s the problem, but it doesn’t have to be tied with just wells. The thief will share it with 5 others, and that’s 25 attacks that will cause immobilize, you clear one and it’s another immediately reapplied, you’re going to get caught, there’s no way to possibly out cleanse it. It can be a boring pirate fight and will never evolve to a fun strategic fight because the guild getting immob spammed will never push. It’s just suicide.
So no, it needs fixed. Unless people think 20-40 pulsing immobilizes is fine. I’ve literally seen a guild group run 3 venomshare thieves before, who thinks that’s fun to play or fight? There’s a reason GvG is dying, and it’s a lot more of the player’s fault than ANET’s.
Look as someone who is killing people with those venom wells, I agree the pirate meta sucks actually. When no one can effectively push it turns into a long standoff where the first side to actually attack the enemy is almost always at a disadvantage in the open field. That’s dumb.
I am all for giving the thief another support option that is just as good, giving enemy melee the ability to push again, and in exchange tweaking necromancers to have more than two good zergs busting builds (both of which use all the same gear weapons and utilities) so there’s some variety.
But I am baffled why people think losing to something that takes multiple coordinated players to pull off is bad. I am sure people hate it when I Plague up on them and my pick team gang’s them too.
People who think venomshare in wvw is fine as it is clearly just have not played any competent groups. And yes it’s the immobilize venom that’s the problem, but it doesn’t have to be tied with just wells. The thief will share it with 5 others, and that’s 25 attacks that will cause immobilize, you clear one and it’s another immediately reapplied, you’re going to get caught, there’s no way to possibly out cleanse it. It can be a boring pirate fight and will never evolve to a fun strategic fight because the guild getting immob spammed will never push. It’s just suicide.
So no, it needs fixed. Unless people think 20-40 pulsing immobilizes is fine. I’ve literally seen a guild group run 3 venomshare thieves before, who thinks that’s fun to play or fight? There’s a reason GvG is dying, and it’s a lot more of the player’s fault than ANET’s.
soo much what this guy said.
When I don’t have my gank squad available for raid or GvGing, we will use venom wells. Sometimes, when the guild you’re supposed to fight shows up an hour late, we’ll use venom wells just to mess with them.
Lets be honest though, any group that is paying attention, will wait until your dodge-rolls and some of your skills are spent before they will venom well-bomb you. You don’t initiate your fights with venom wells, that is still the realm of Eles, and the frontline.
People who think venomshare in wvw is fine as it is clearly just have not played any competent groups. And yes it’s the immobilize venom that’s the problem, but it doesn’t have to be tied with just wells. The thief will share it with 5 others, and that’s 25 attacks that will cause immobilize, you clear one and it’s another immediately reapplied, you’re going to get caught, there’s no way to possibly out cleanse it. It can be a boring pirate fight and will never evolve to a fun strategic fight because the guild getting immob spammed will never push. It’s just suicide.
So no, it needs fixed. Unless people think 20-40 pulsing immobilizes is fine. I’ve literally seen a guild group run 3 venomshare thieves before, who thinks that’s fun to play or fight? There’s a reason GvG is dying, and it’s a lot more of the player’s fault than ANET’s.
soo much what this guy said.
When I don’t have my gank squad available for raid or GvGing, we will use venom wells. Sometimes, when the guild you’re supposed to fight shows up an hour late, we’ll use venom wells just to mess with them.
Lets be honest though, any group that is paying attention, will wait until your dodge-rolls and some of your skills are spent before they will venom well-bomb you. You don’t initiate your fights with venom wells, that is still the realm of Eles, and the frontline.
Such kittened cancer, it makes me ashamed to even be a necro. People just trying to blow up drivers or trains. I wish people would try to improve on coordination and skills instead of being gimicky and abusing whatever they can to win. Even if they were an hour late I would tell my thieves and other necros to kitten off because winning like that is never fun. But yeah, as people can blatantly see there’s nothing healthy about that.
People who think venomshare in wvw is fine as it is clearly just have not played any competent groups. And yes it’s the immobilize venom that’s the problem, but it doesn’t have to be tied with just wells. The thief will share it with 5 others, and that’s 25 attacks that will cause immobilize, you clear one and it’s another immediately reapplied, you’re going to get caught, there’s no way to possibly out cleanse it. It can be a boring pirate fight and will never evolve to a fun strategic fight because the guild getting immob spammed will never push. It’s just suicide.
So no, it needs fixed. Unless people think 20-40 pulsing immobilizes is fine. I’ve literally seen a guild group run 3 venomshare thieves before, who thinks that’s fun to play or fight? There’s a reason GvG is dying, and it’s a lot more of the player’s fault than ANET’s.
25 on 1 person, I believe resistance should help with that if used properly. I know there are bugs around immobilize but fun/boring are opinions, you never know what you will fight there are no rules.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140 The Dhuumfire thread
People who think venomshare in wvw is fine as it is clearly just have not played any competent groups. And yes it’s the immobilize venom that’s the problem, but it doesn’t have to be tied with just wells. The thief will share it with 5 others, and that’s 25 attacks that will cause immobilize, you clear one and it’s another immediately reapplied, you’re going to get caught, there’s no way to possibly out cleanse it. It can be a boring pirate fight and will never evolve to a fun strategic fight because the guild getting immob spammed will never push. It’s just suicide.
So no, it needs fixed. Unless people think 20-40 pulsing immobilizes is fine. I’ve literally seen a guild group run 3 venomshare thieves before, who thinks that’s fun to play or fight? There’s a reason GvG is dying, and it’s a lot more of the player’s fault than ANET’s.
25 on 1 person, I believe resistance should help with that if used properly. I know there are bugs around immobilize but fun/boring are opinions, you never know what you will fight there are no rules.
To be fair it’s not 25, only thieves get the 5 stacks I believe and the rest get 2 judging from the video. You’d need 2 thieves to get that realistically. It’s still beyond broken though via it stacking or pulsing. Resistance indeed would help, but it’s just annoying WvW will never get the balance it deserves and that players will exploit whatever to win.
People who think venomshare in wvw is fine as it is clearly just have not played any competent groups. And yes it’s the immobilize venom that’s the problem, but it doesn’t have to be tied with just wells. The thief will share it with 5 others, and that’s 25 attacks that will cause immobilize, you clear one and it’s another immediately reapplied, you’re going to get caught, there’s no way to possibly out cleanse it. It can be a boring pirate fight and will never evolve to a fun strategic fight because the guild getting immob spammed will never push. It’s just suicide.
So no, it needs fixed. Unless people think 20-40 pulsing immobilizes is fine. I’ve literally seen a guild group run 3 venomshare thieves before, who thinks that’s fun to play or fight? There’s a reason GvG is dying, and it’s a lot more of the player’s fault than ANET’s.
25 on 1 person, I believe resistance should help with that if used properly. I know there are bugs around immobilize but fun/boring are opinions, you never know what you will fight there are no rules.
To be fair it’s not 25, only thieves get the 5 stacks I believe and the rest get 2 judging from the video. You’d need 2 thieves to get that realistically. It’s still beyond broken though via it stacking or pulsing. Resistance indeed would help, but it’s just annoying WvW will never get the balance it deserves and that players will exploit whatever to win.
I do not feel multiple professions coordinating skills for this result, that can be negated partially or fully, by coordinated play by different professions, is even remotely “broken”(love the generic buzzword usages here like “broken” and “cancer” when folks try to add artificial weight to their opinion).
There are pulsing cleanses, skills or traits that specifically negate immobilize, team cleansing, and other AoE cleansing. Not to mention leap skills the break immobilize that also get you out of the area.
People who think venomshare in wvw is fine as it is clearly just have not played any competent groups. And yes it’s the immobilize venom that’s the problem, but it doesn’t have to be tied with just wells. The thief will share it with 5 others, and that’s 25 attacks that will cause immobilize, you clear one and it’s another immediately reapplied, you’re going to get caught, there’s no way to possibly out cleanse it. It can be a boring pirate fight and will never evolve to a fun strategic fight because the guild getting immob spammed will never push. It’s just suicide.
So no, it needs fixed. Unless people think 20-40 pulsing immobilizes is fine. I’ve literally seen a guild group run 3 venomshare thieves before, who thinks that’s fun to play or fight? There’s a reason GvG is dying, and it’s a lot more of the player’s fault than ANET’s.
25 on 1 person, I believe resistance should help with that if used properly. I know there are bugs around immobilize but fun/boring are opinions, you never know what you will fight there are no rules.
To be fair it’s not 25, only thieves get the 5 stacks I believe and the rest get 2 judging from the video. You’d need 2 thieves to get that realistically. It’s still beyond broken though via it stacking or pulsing. Resistance indeed would help, but it’s just annoying WvW will never get the balance it deserves and that players will exploit whatever to win.
I do not feel multiple professions coordinating skills for this result, that can be negated partially or fully, by coordinated play by different professions, is even remotely “broken”(love the generic buzzword usages here like “broken” and “cancer” when folks try to add artificial weight to their opinion).
There are pulsing cleanses, skills or traits that specifically negate immobilize, team cleansing, and other AoE cleansing. Not to mention leap skills the break immobilize that also get you out of the area.
So now we have to spec our builds to avoid one lame tactic? This necro-venom share thing is just cheap. Should I now set up my party to make sure I have classes to counter this specific trap? I honestly don’t understand why you defend it, there is nothing good about it’s use in WvW or GvG. It does however, fit nicely into the Anet “insta-kill” dungeon/fractal design… is that supposed to be fun?
Why do you need to spec for it? General group comps now, handle it just fine.
The counter argument would simply be, why do they need to nerf skills because you refuse to use comps that counter them? That’s just as bad as players posting their builds, showing no condition cleanses, then demanding nerfs to conditions.
Why is it okay with you to try to dictate what skills need or do not need to be nerfes, based on the build you want to play?
Are you suggesting you do not attempt to compose your groups based on optimal value when it is possible?
You do not understand how I defend it? That is strange. I do not understand how you condemn it.
People who think venomshare in wvw is fine as it is clearly just have not played any competent groups. And yes it’s the immobilize venom that’s the problem, but it doesn’t have to be tied with just wells. The thief will share it with 5 others, and that’s 25 attacks that will cause immobilize, you clear one and it’s another immediately reapplied, you’re going to get caught, there’s no way to possibly out cleanse it. It can be a boring pirate fight and will never evolve to a fun strategic fight because the guild getting immob spammed will never push. It’s just suicide.
So no, it needs fixed. Unless people think 20-40 pulsing immobilizes is fine. I’ve literally seen a guild group run 3 venomshare thieves before, who thinks that’s fun to play or fight? There’s a reason GvG is dying, and it’s a lot more of the player’s fault than ANET’s.
25 on 1 person, I believe resistance should help with that if used properly. I know there are bugs around immobilize but fun/boring are opinions, you never know what you will fight there are no rules.
To be fair it’s not 25, only thieves get the 5 stacks I believe and the rest get 2 judging from the video. You’d need 2 thieves to get that realistically. It’s still beyond broken though via it stacking or pulsing. Resistance indeed would help, but it’s just annoying WvW will never get the balance it deserves and that players will exploit whatever to win.
I do not feel multiple professions coordinating skills for this result, that can be negated partially or fully, by coordinated play by different professions, is even remotely “broken”(love the generic buzzword usages here like “broken” and “cancer” when folks try to add artificial weight to their opinion).
There are pulsing cleanses, skills or traits that specifically negate immobilize, team cleansing, and other AoE cleansing. Not to mention leap skills the break immobilize that also get you out of the area.
So now we have to spec our builds to avoid one lame tactic? This necro-venom share thing is just cheap. Should I now set up my party to make sure I have classes to counter this specific trap? I honestly don’t understand why you defend it, there is nothing good about it’s use in WvW or GvG. It does however, fit nicely into the Anet “insta-kill” dungeon/fractal design… is that supposed to be fun?
You never know what you will fight it’s been like this for PvP and WvW since beta… Cheap/fun/boring are all opinions.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140 The Dhuumfire thread
People who think venomshare in wvw is fine as it is clearly just have not played any competent groups. And yes it’s the immobilize venom that’s the problem, but it doesn’t have to be tied with just wells. The thief will share it with 5 others, and that’s 25 attacks that will cause immobilize, you clear one and it’s another immediately reapplied, you’re going to get caught, there’s no way to possibly out cleanse it. It can be a boring pirate fight and will never evolve to a fun strategic fight because the guild getting immob spammed will never push. It’s just suicide.
So no, it needs fixed. Unless people think 20-40 pulsing immobilizes is fine. I’ve literally seen a guild group run 3 venomshare thieves before, who thinks that’s fun to play or fight? There’s a reason GvG is dying, and it’s a lot more of the player’s fault than ANET’s.
25 on 1 person, I believe resistance should help with that if used properly. I know there are bugs around immobilize but fun/boring are opinions, you never know what you will fight there are no rules.
To be fair it’s not 25, only thieves get the 5 stacks I believe and the rest get 2 judging from the video. You’d need 2 thieves to get that realistically. It’s still beyond broken though via it stacking or pulsing. Resistance indeed would help, but it’s just annoying WvW will never get the balance it deserves and that players will exploit whatever to win.
With a trait that gives +1 extra venom use, Devourer Venom will proc a total of 3 times, with venomshare giving that to 4 others, it’s 15 potential attacks total, and most of those are easily blocked or evaded. It’s not as bad as that guy is making it out to seem.
Additionally, if you know you’re facing a venom share group, save your condition removal for when you know they’ve used the venoms. Venoms have something like a 32 second cooldown when traited for CDR, that’s half a minute where that thief is pretty useless. Focus him down while his Venoms aren’t up for his group = your group has the upper hand.
People who think venomshare in wvw is fine as it is clearly just have not played any competent groups. And yes it’s the immobilize venom that’s the problem, but it doesn’t have to be tied with just wells. The thief will share it with 5 others, and that’s 25 attacks that will cause immobilize, you clear one and it’s another immediately reapplied, you’re going to get caught, there’s no way to possibly out cleanse it. It can be a boring pirate fight and will never evolve to a fun strategic fight because the guild getting immob spammed will never push. It’s just suicide.
So no, it needs fixed. Unless people think 20-40 pulsing immobilizes is fine. I’ve literally seen a guild group run 3 venomshare thieves before, who thinks that’s fun to play or fight? There’s a reason GvG is dying, and it’s a lot more of the player’s fault than ANET’s.
+1, my personal views are no cc should be so easily spammed, stacked, and reapplied. It’s not good for the health of the game. Other MMO’s deal with these easy to apply and spammed cc’s with diminishing returns, where the effects on you last shorter and shorter until you gain a temporary immunity to said cc’s. This game does it the other way around, there’s no diminishing returns, you don’t gain immunity to immob, it is simply not as fun.
I’m a necro, I’ll continue to play WvW and do the best I can. I’ll live with it if things are left as-is. But understand people complaining about it are not just classes this affects the most. Most Commanders I know are very vocal about it, they despise this. Is this considered “tactic” just as pin sniping is considered a “tactic”? Sure. But these things break up fights, they don’t encourage them. Sometimes there are things not healthy for the game, and we as players have to be honest with ourselves and admit to it first before devs will even take a look at it. It may be fun to cheese a win sometimes, but I think most people would rather have a good, long, hard fight without the cheese. It’s afterall how WvW have survived this long, because most of us want good fights, not cheese victories.
Why do you need to spec for it? General group comps now, handle it just fine.
The counter argument would simply be, why do they need to nerf skills because you refuse to use comps that counter them? That’s just as bad as players posting their builds, showing no condition cleanses, then demanding nerfs to conditions.
Why is it okay with you to try to dictate what skills need or do not need to be nerfes, based on the build you want to play?
Are you suggesting you do not attempt to compose your groups based on optimal value when it is possible?
You do not understand how I defend it? That is strange. I do not understand how you condemn it.
Arguing in the abstract and theory crafting are great, but it really doesn’t counter what is happening in the game. Real in game skill balancing is an on going continuous process. Revising the way that the immob works with venom share in WvW is exactly what that process should be addressing… pin sniping should be on that list as well imo.
Arguing in the abstract and theory crafting are great, but it really doesn’t counter what is happening in the game. Real in game skill balancing is an on going continuous process. Revising the way that the immob works with venom share in WvW is exactly what that process should be addressing… pin sniping should be on that list as well imo.
It has already been explained how to counter this in practice that works for players every single day, so I am not certain where your coming from with the “abstract” comment. Unless you were saying something in abstract previously.
Sure balance is an ongoing process. but that only applies to actual problematic issues, not things you perceive as a problem because you have difficulty with it, when most do not.
In my opinion, the fact that you “personally” want the ability to focus damage a single player, “changed” or balanced out", simply because they have are the pin, suggest to me your not looking for reasonable balance that benefits the game, but rather wanting the game balanced around your personal wants/needs to the detriment of the game for everyone else.
Just wait until the mesmer elite specialization hits and there are even more sources of ratwells. And if necro ratwells weren’t bad enough, mesmer ratwells (judging from the well in the preview video) will also have an additional rooting effect. Onward to hell!
If you are an ele, mesmer or thief you can blink away from the well.
If you are a warrior you can run up to -97% immob duration or trait for movement skills remove immob.
Engis can use one condi clear and elixir S. There is also a trait to cut condis duration by 50% hoelbrak -40% food…
You can also don’t get caught by a well.
Even if you have 4 thieves with traited venon, the necro will get only 12 charges. If there are 5 players inside the well it will apply only 2/3 immobs per target after he runs out of charges.
Venoms are weak in spvp. One of the only ways to nerf them in wvw without affecting spvp is to just add a cap on the amount of charges you can get from each kind of vennom. Cap it at 8 because realistically you won’t have more than 2 thieves using venom share in the same team in spvp ever.
If you are an ele, mesmer or thief you can blink away from the well.
If you are a warrior you can run up to -97% immob duration or trait for movement skills remove immob.
Engis can use one condi clear and elixir S. There is also a trait to cut condis duration by 50% hoelbrak -40% food…
You can also don’t get caught by a well.
Even if you have 4 thieves with traited venon, the necro will get only 12 charges. If there are 5 players inside the well it will apply only 2/3 immobs per target after he runs out of charges.
Venoms are weak in spvp. One of the only ways to nerf them in wvw without affecting spvp is to just add a cap on the amount of charges you can get from each kind of vennom. Cap it at 8 because realistically you won’t have more than 2 thieves using venom share in the same team in spvp ever.
thats not really a good arguement. you forget the other 4 necros he is giving venoms to.
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