Guild Wars 2

FrownyClown.8402:

xDudisx.5914:

People QQing about immob venon?

If you are an ele, mesmer or thief you can blink away from the well.
If you are a warrior you can run up to -97% immob duration or trait for movement skills remove immob.
Engis can use one condi clear and elixir S. There is also a trait to cut condis duration by 50% hoelbrak -40% food…

You can also don’t get caught by a well.

Even if you have 4 thieves with traited venon, the necro will get only 12 charges. If there are 5 players inside the well it will apply only 2/3 immobs per target after he runs out of charges.

Venoms are weak in spvp. One of the only ways to nerf them in wvw without affecting spvp is to just add a cap on the amount of charges you can get from each kind of vennom. Cap it at 8 because realistically you won’t have more than 2 thieves using venom share in the same team in spvp ever.

thats not really a good arguement. you forget the other 4 necros he is giving venoms to.

No, it is a pretty solid argument. You forgot the other 4 warrior war horn converting it to boons. The 5 guardians cleansins, the 2 engineers using Fumigate for AoE cleaning on 5 targets and so on.

It really does no one any good to pretend only one side of a battle can act in this situation.

xDudisx.5914:

People QQing about immob venon?

If you are an ele, mesmer or thief you can blink away from the well.
If you are a warrior you can run up to -97% immob duration or trait for movement skills remove immob.
Engis can use one condi clear and elixir S. There is also a trait to cut condis duration by 50% hoelbrak -40% food…

You can also don’t get caught by a well.

Even if you have 4 thieves with traited venon, the necro will get only 12 charges. If there are 5 players inside the well it will apply only 2/3 immobs per target after he runs out of charges.

Venoms are weak in spvp. One of the only ways to nerf them in wvw without affecting spvp is to just add a cap on the amount of charges you can get from each kind of vennom. Cap it at 8 because realistically you won’t have more than 2 thieves using venom share in the same team in spvp ever.

Cool. And if you’re a Necro and you get stuck in a Venomwell then what.

That’s a issue with necros. Not the skills used against them. As I see it, there is no justification for using one professions to justify redesigning other professions skills and abilities atound.

There is always a counter to everything…it just takes the time to work it out.

Venoms may be strong but definitely not an auto win button.

Anyone saying there’s no use for necros in zerging unless combined with a venomshare thief is an absolutely horrible necromancer. Please switch your class.

It’s not that there’s no other possible use for the profession it’s just that this is currently the best use and the one most demanded one at the moment.

Ironically a fear necromancer is an ideal counter to venom wells.

coglin.1867:

FrownyClown.8402:

xDudisx.5914:

People QQing about immob venon?

If you are an ele, mesmer or thief you can blink away from the well.
If you are a warrior you can run up to -97% immob duration or trait for movement skills remove immob.
Engis can use one condi clear and elixir S. There is also a trait to cut condis duration by 50% hoelbrak -40% food…

You can also don’t get caught by a well.

Even if you have 4 thieves with traited venon, the necro will get only 12 charges. If there are 5 players inside the well it will apply only 2/3 immobs per target after he runs out of charges.

Venoms are weak in spvp. One of the only ways to nerf them in wvw without affecting spvp is to just add a cap on the amount of charges you can get from each kind of vennom. Cap it at 8 because realistically you won’t have more than 2 thieves using venom share in the same team in spvp ever.

thats not really a good arguement. you forget the other 4 necros he is giving venoms to.

No, it is a pretty solid argument. You forgot the other 4 warrior war horn converting it to boons. The 5 guardians cleansins, the 2 engineers using Fumigate for AoE cleaning on 5 targets and so on.

It really does no one any good to pretend only one side of a battle can act in this situation.

you forget the conditions stacked on you from getting boons corrupted. plus the reapplication of immob every pulse the well has. you might even be able to survive the first bomb. they will come back 35s later with another set of condis for you to cleanse.
Arguing with you is like telling an atheist to believe in jesus. hop on your thief and try it yourself.

In 35s though a great deal of cleanses personal and otherwise should reset again.

Most good long zergs fights involve multiple “bomb” calls even with the venoms.

Again I am not saying this isn’t boring sometimes but a tactic that takes multiple players of five professions is generally going to wreck face.

FrownyClown.8402:

coglin.1867:

FrownyClown.8402:

xDudisx.5914:

People QQing about immob venon?

If you are an ele, mesmer or thief you can blink away from the well.
If you are a warrior you can run up to -97% immob duration or trait for movement skills remove immob.
Engis can use one condi clear and elixir S. There is also a trait to cut condis duration by 50% hoelbrak -40% food…

You can also don’t get caught by a well.

Even if you have 4 thieves with traited venon, the necro will get only 12 charges. If there are 5 players inside the well it will apply only 2/3 immobs per target after he runs out of charges.

Venoms are weak in spvp. One of the only ways to nerf them in wvw without affecting spvp is to just add a cap on the amount of charges you can get from each kind of vennom. Cap it at 8 because realistically you won’t have more than 2 thieves using venom share in the same team in spvp ever.

thats not really a good arguement. you forget the other 4 necros he is giving venoms to.

No, it is a pretty solid argument. You forgot the other 4 warrior war horn converting it to boons. The 5 guardians cleansins, the 2 engineers using Fumigate for AoE cleaning on 5 targets and so on.

It really does no one any good to pretend only one side of a battle can act in this situation.

you forget the conditions stacked on you from getting boons corrupted. plus the reapplication of immob every pulse the well has. you might even be able to survive the first bomb. they will come back 35s later with another set of condis for you to cleanse.
Arguing with you is like telling an atheist to believe in jesus. hop on your thief and try it yourself.

Save your energy and dont bother with him. This game is completely ok and all complaints/worries are irrelevant. Want to know anything? Ask him or Lordkrall.

FrownyClown.8402:

coglin.1867:

FrownyClown.8402:

xDudisx.5914:

People QQing about immob venon?

If you are an ele, mesmer or thief you can blink away from the well.
If you are a warrior you can run up to -97% immob duration or trait for movement skills remove immob.
Engis can use one condi clear and elixir S. There is also a trait to cut condis duration by 50% hoelbrak -40% food…

You can also don’t get caught by a well.

Even if you have 4 thieves with traited venon, the necro will get only 12 charges. If there are 5 players inside the well it will apply only 2/3 immobs per target after he runs out of charges.

Venoms are weak in spvp. One of the only ways to nerf them in wvw without affecting spvp is to just add a cap on the amount of charges you can get from each kind of vennom. Cap it at 8 because realistically you won’t have more than 2 thieves using venom share in the same team in spvp ever.

thats not really a good arguement. you forget the other 4 necros he is giving venoms to.

No, it is a pretty solid argument. You forgot the other 4 warrior war horn converting it to boons. The 5 guardians cleansins, the 2 engineers using Fumigate for AoE cleaning on 5 targets and so on.

It really does no one any good to pretend only one side of a battle can act in this situation.

you forget the conditions stacked on you from getting boons corrupted. plus the reapplication of immob every pulse the well has. you might even be able to survive the first bomb. they will come back 35s later with another set of condis for you to cleanse.
Arguing with you is like telling an atheist to believe in jesus. hop on your thief and try it yourself.

Most of the counters mentioned have lower cool downs then 35s.

Most group size engagements are over in thay time.

coglin.1867:

It has already been explained how to counter this in practice that works for players every single day, so I am not certain where your coming from with the “abstract” comment. Unless you were saying something in abstract previously.

Sure balance is an ongoing process. but that only applies to actual problematic issues, not things you perceive as a problem because you have difficulty with it, when most do not.

In my opinion, the fact that you “personally” want the ability to focus damage a single player, “changed” or balanced out", simply because they have are the pin, suggest to me your not looking for reasonable balance that benefits the game, but rather wanting the game balanced around your personal wants/needs to the detriment of the game for everyone else.

That is a really bad motivation for changes.

That statement is an abstraction, it is a theoretical discussion outside of an actual event. Most forum discussions are in the abstract by nature. You like to use abstract arguments to validate your viewpoints, which is perfectly fine, but it’s the same thing as saying, “if one is on fire, one just throws water on the flames to put them out” which is absolutely true, but useless in the case where you fall over into a campfire, spilling your glass of water which makes the advice good in the abstract, but useless in the actual situation….

And let us not forget, neither your preferences nor my preferences are inherently better, or represent better game balance. You are welcome to assume what my motivations are, but that doesn’t make you correct.

[Quote]

Most of the counters mentioned have lower cool downs then 35s.

Most group size engagements are over in thay time.
[/quote]

I typically get 2 or 3 sets of wells off in multiple fights per raid night. Two seems to be the most common. We are usually the smaller force however so one bomb won’t do it. I don’t run sustained wells either.

If it’s over super fast I usually don’t do wells at all because commander won’t call for them.

Just FWIW.

Tspatula.9086:

coglin.1867:

It has already been explained how to counter this in practice that works for players every single day, so I am not certain where your coming from with the “abstract” comment. Unless you were saying something in abstract previously.

Sure balance is an ongoing process. but that only applies to actual problematic issues, not things you perceive as a problem because you have difficulty with it, when most do not.

In my opinion, the fact that you “personally” want the ability to focus damage a single player, “changed” or balanced out", simply because they have are the pin, suggest to me your not looking for reasonable balance that benefits the game, but rather wanting the game balanced around your personal wants/needs to the detriment of the game for everyone else.

That is a really bad motivation for changes.

That statement is an abstraction, it is a theoretical discussion outside of an actual event. Most forum discussions are in the abstract by nature. You like to use abstract arguments to validate your viewpoints, which is perfectly fine, but it’s the same thing as saying, “if one is on fire, one just throws water on the flames to put them out” which is absolutely true, but useless in the case where you fall over into a campfire, spilling your glass of water which makes the advice good in the abstract, but useless in the actual situation….

And let us not forget, neither your preferences nor my preferences are inherently better, or represent better game balance. You are welcome to assume what my motivations are, but that doesn’t make you correct.

Yeah, that’s how it has to work. It is a fight. The goal is for one side to defeat the other. Both sides have fire and water. My argument is no more or less theoretical then yours. I am simply describing what counters very factually work in action for me now. There are other offensive and defensive skills in action.

There is no REAL counter to venomShare specially in WvW/Raid situation the side that use it gets a clear advantage, hence why they use it. Ppl here saying “stop QQ and counter it” is exactly those same ppl that actually spread the Venoms.
plz stop say you can counter it… you can ease the effect but there is NO counter, hence why its bin used & abused.
Juke

coglin.1867:

Tspatula.9086:

coglin.1867:

It has already been explained how to counter this in practice that works for players every single day, so I am not certain where your coming from with the “abstract” comment. Unless you were saying something in abstract previously.

Sure balance is an ongoing process. but that only applies to actual problematic issues, not things you perceive as a problem because you have difficulty with it, when most do not.

In my opinion, the fact that you “personally” want the ability to focus damage a single player, “changed” or balanced out", simply because they have are the pin, suggest to me your not looking for reasonable balance that benefits the game, but rather wanting the game balanced around your personal wants/needs to the detriment of the game for everyone else.

That is a really bad motivation for changes.

That statement is an abstraction, it is a theoretical discussion outside of an actual event. Most forum discussions are in the abstract by nature. You like to use abstract arguments to validate your viewpoints, which is perfectly fine, but it’s the same thing as saying, “if one is on fire, one just throws water on the flames to put them out” which is absolutely true, but useless in the case where you fall over into a campfire, spilling your glass of water which makes the advice good in the abstract, but useless in the actual situation….

And let us not forget, neither your preferences nor my preferences are inherently better, or represent better game balance. You are welcome to assume what my motivations are, but that doesn’t make you correct.

Yeah, that’s how it has to work. It is a fight. The goal is for one side to defeat the other. Both sides have fire and water. My argument is no more or less theoretical then yours. I am simply describing what counters very factually work in action for me now. There are other offensive and defensive skills in action.

If you want to think of it as a fight be my guest. The issue here is spammed immobs, trapping players and insta-killing them. Everyone I have talked to about it, considers it to be cheap tactic and exploiting a weakness in how venom sharing works. If you like that kind of gameplay, then fight for it…. I guess.

Tspatula.9086:

If you want to think of it as a fight be my guest. The issue here is spammed immobs, trapping players and insta-killing them. Everyone I have talked to about it, considers it to be cheap tactic and exploiting a weakness in how venom sharing works. If you like that kind of gameplay, then fight for it…. I guess.

Regardless, it is a fight. That is what happens when enemies clash.

If everyone claims it is a problem, why are there only a small handful of posters here complaining, in repeat post. If other people have an issue, how about we let them post for themselves, instead of trying to add artificial weight to your personal perspective by disingenuously claiming you speak for other people.

coglin.1867:

Regardless, it is a fight. That is what happens when enemies clash.

If everyone claims it is a problem, why are there only a small handful of posters here complaining, in repeat post. If other people have an issue, how about we let them post for themselves, instead of trying to add artificial weight to your personal perspective by disingenuously claiming you speak for other people.

I was relaying actual conversations about this tactic, not sure what makes that disingenous. The vast majority of people posting in this thread agree that spammed immobs are a problem. There are roughly only a couple of posters in this thread that support your position, are you not artificially inflating your position by posting so much?

xDudisx.5914:

People QQing about immob venon?

If you are an ele, mesmer or thief you can blink away from the well.
If you are a warrior you can run up to -97% immob duration or trait for movement skills remove immob.
Engis can use one condi clear and elixir S. There is also a trait to cut condis duration by 50% hoelbrak -40% food…

You can also don’t get caught by a well.

Even if you have 4 thieves with traited venon, the necro will get only 12 charges. If there are 5 players inside the well it will apply only 2/3 immobs per target after he runs out of charges.

Venoms are weak in spvp. One of the only ways to nerf them in wvw without affecting spvp is to just add a cap on the amount of charges you can get from each kind of vennom. Cap it at 8 because realistically you won’t have more than 2 thieves using venom share in the same team in spvp ever.

All fine but don’t forget warrior/skills/traits/runes ect condition duration reduction work only on base timer of condition not extended part by condition duration increase from builds which average necro have 80%+ so until you cleanse that not help much.

VS is op, even if you burn all utility skills to break free don’t really matter as enemy melee is all ready on you! Even if it is intended to be used that way same time is no good counter for that, most personal cleans skills remove 1-3 condition and you cant relay on ally as they have to retreat from well spike so most of players are depend only on them self when caught.

Maybe remap of cleanse traits/skills could help here?

Can we at least change the title and the mood to immobilize and not venoms or wells for proper discussion?? It is partially a necro thing whenever I get caught by venom share in TDM they’re common there my necro would usually die…faster my alts would escape/reset etc. for immobilize that’s part of dealing with random condition clear in general yes if you are mindlessly clashing/pushing you will fail if you knew what you was up against you would never lose let’s emphasize my first sentence…