Guild Wars 2

Currently, in wvw people frequently refuse to go to the Home BL maps because they are so poorly designed, and not made how people would actually build. Instead, they do stupid things like make you go North to go South, East to go West and add cliffs for no purpose instead of a simplified map like EGB. People prefer EGB due to the actual landscape of the map and many consider the Home Borderlands maps to be broken due to the landscape and layout and refuse to play on them. If a map is running off players rather than attracting them there is something wrong with the map itself that needs to be corrected.

I was hoping they would redo the landscape of the Home Borderland maps all together, have less focus on PVE content in wvw ( we do not want worms, frogs, dredge, ogres, or centaurs ect.. we want to fight players) and instead allow for more elements that can be used in actual battle to be added ( more ways to fight and more tools to fight with). I am concerned about the actual landscape of the Expansion Map as someone was mentioning cliffs.. Hopefully there are less cliffs and a more simplified battlefield like EGB to fight with, so players can focus more on fighting other players rather than stupid things like die from falling off a cliff due to lag. Falling and running around aimlessly due to poor map design =\= enhanced gameplay or fun for most people and I have seen multiple people rage quit the game due to that as it is.

I do hope that this new BL is for actual fighting and the map is a good battlefield, because currently wvw only has one decent map and is in desperate need of more good maps. The BL maps we currently have are costing us players as it is.

I was under the assumption that people liked EBG because of the constant battle, and that the BLs have less action on them.

Now, imo, the map design doesn’t bother me. It’s not hard to move around, although it was somewhat easier when there was just a huge lake in the middle of the BLs. But, the new BL map for WvW seems to be EoTM inspired, so it might make things interesting.

People only go to the EOTM to K train partly due to the map itself, as you cannot have a serious guild battle on a map like that. They get good fights on EGB due to people choosing that map over the BL maps. You have to look at why they choose the map in the first place, and why people will refuse to go to the BL map at all.

I make calls all the time and have people tell me they wont go to the BL because they hate the map, this isn’t even people in my guild, as we are a wvw only guild, and this is all we do, this is random people on the map when we make calls to save bay or hills, and at least on the server I am on now, people will actually come at all. On other servers, sometimes no one would show up and tell me it was because " I hate that map."
It is difficult to move around for newcomers, they cannot even find their way out of Gari and are screaming “I keep dying every time I try to leave Gari”. No one should have to ask how to move on a map.. that isn’t enhancing gameplay, or making the game more fun, no that is a defective map. What happens instead is they get mad, leave and don’t come back to the BL map or sometimes they don’t come back to wvw or Guild wars 2 at all. They get mad and leave instead, as is what happens in EoTM as well.

EOTM style map isn’t going to attract people, they are only attracted to EOTM for fast leveling, outside of that it would be a ghost town. People do not actually take EOTM seriously due to 1) Server mergers and 2) Stupid map.

I miss you Devil, come home…lol

Loosmaster.8263:

I miss you Devil, come home…lol

You should come to JQ!! You would love it here! It is so much fun, and the community is awesome!!

PS. Right now transfer costs are the same regardless of tier, so it is like transferring to JQ is on sale!

That is so weird, because I’ve seen more of the opposite, that people like the borderlands, but don’t like EBG. Might just be a perspective thing. My own guild is a WvW roaming guild, and we stick to Borderlands 90% of the time, most of us find EBG pretty boring because you’re funneled into big fights all the time, and don’t have the space to run around behind groups or objectives effectively.

So I guess this is just a matter of perspective/opinion/taste. When people call EBG waypoint in mapchat, I don’t bother going there, I’ll go do something else on the Borderlands instead.

I personally like the BL’s better. I’ve never understood the complaint about the cliffs personally – just don’t jump off? But I know it is an issue for people because I’ve heard it on my server too. I’d be fine with them re-doing it and flattening it, but we all know that’s not going to happen.

This is what I understood from their description of the new map:

There will be a progression of assets to take. The tower guards the path to the keep. And location #X must be taken in order to take the next location, #Y, for example.

And that would be awesome. That is exactly the suggestion that many players were making.

As for the actual design and the verticality or flatness of it I don’t know. The part about navigating treacherous heights and blowing your enemies up with traps to the depths below did worry me though.

joneirikb.7506:

That is so weird, because I’ve seen more of the opposite, that people like the borderlands, but don’t like EBG. Might just be a perspective thing. My own guild is a WvW roaming guild, and we stick to Borderlands 90% of the time, most of us find EBG pretty boring because you’re funneled into big fights all the time, and don’t have the space to run around behind groups or objectives effectively.

So I guess this is just a matter of perspective/opinion/taste. When people call EBG waypoint in mapchat, I don’t bother going there, I’ll go do something else on the Borderlands instead.

Why is that? I am in T1 and I still solo’d a T3 Ql from BG my second day here. I do roaming, defense, scouting and zerg, and you can do it all on EBG too.. Unless you are in one of the broke Tiers, that isn’t caused by map landscape though it is caused by a broken Tier system. I play on all maps, but I am also frequently the one making calls to save keeps and towers, and receiving responses from those I am calling to come help.

Johje Holan.4607:

I personally like the BL’s better. I’ve never understood the complaint about the cliffs personally – just don’t jump off? But I know it is an issue for people because I’ve heard it on my server too. I’d be fine with them re-doing it and flattening it, but we all know that’s not going to happen.

This is what I understood from their description of the new map:

There will be a progression of assets to take. The tower guards the path to the keep. And location #X must be taken in order to take the next location, #Y, for example.

And that would be awesome. That is exactly the suggestion that many players were making.

As for the actual design and the verticality or flatness of it I don’t know. The part about navigating treacherous heights and blowing your enemies up with traps to the depths below did worry me though.

Actually that sounds really linear ;s. Not sure how I feel about linear, I prefer being able to do the unexpected. If they have to take x objective in order to do Y, no point in defending the back line, just stack everything on the front and kill box it making it near impossible to get past x.

they dont have to make it completely flat, but at least not so many pointless cliffs that you spend more time running aimlessly doing nothing than you do fighting. The pointless running around is not fun. Basically we need more action and less running to get to it.

lil devils x.6071:

joneirikb.7506:

That is so weird, because I’ve seen more of the opposite, that people like the borderlands, but don’t like EBG. Might just be a perspective thing. My own guild is a WvW roaming guild, and we stick to Borderlands 90% of the time, most of us find EBG pretty boring because you’re funneled into big fights all the time, and don’t have the space to run around behind groups or objectives effectively.

So I guess this is just a matter of perspective/opinion/taste. When people call EBG waypoint in mapchat, I don’t bother going there, I’ll go do something else on the Borderlands instead.

Why is that? I am in T1 and I still solo’d a T3 Ql from BG my second day here. I do roaming, defense, scouting and zerg, and you can do it all on EBG too.. Unless you are in one of the broke Tiers, that isn’t caused by map landscape though it is caused by a broken Tier system. I play on all maps, but I am also frequently the one making calls to save keeps and towers, and receiving responses from those I am calling to come help.

Hey we’ve taken down T3 keeps with a couple of people quite a few times. I personally wouldn’t be able to take down a T3 tower alone just yet, but with 2 it would work. And we’re currently in Tier 7 (Server listed in signature) and we keep bouncing back and forth between different matches where we are top, bottom and middle, so no complains there, we’re having a great time!

The reason is that EBG and BL are designed differently, for different people. Borderlands is more open, more paths, more distance between objectives, more alternative paths. It is easy to sneak around objects and groups to get to things behind them. And for people (like my guild) we enjoy this mode and the many “small fights” that happens this way, usually 5 or less players on each side.

Where EBG is designed to funnel players into specific paths, where all the objectives are stringed together like pearls on a string, this encourages players to group together as they encounter each others on the “paths”, and creates a more group fight mentality map. I don’t really enjoy that, since I like small fights, but others really enjoy it.

So it is a GREAT thing that the two maps are different, so people can play what they enjoy, and go to the playstyle that suits them. I am really looking forward to the new map and hoping that it will be different from both the existing maps, so we can have even more different ways to play this game. And just because their said that they will add “heights” to the game doesn’t mean it will be instant deaths like EotM, imagine lots of heights the like of keep walls, where you fall down, take 5% fall damage, and just been placed in a position out of combat where you have to run back. That could be very fun and tactical in combat. Fear 3-4 enemies off the edge, so you got 1-2 minutes before they can run back to turn the tide of the fight.

I hope we get a keep shaped like a Ziggurat, where we fight on the different “layers” upward, with breaking gates to access stairs to the next layer. All the fun with fear and knockback to split up fights, the lord on the top, being able to watch the attackers stream up through the layers coming at you etc.

@OP:

I hope you are right. Simple maps are better than more complex.

That said, ANET seems to believe that adding more gimmicks makes a good map. They also seem to think that most people want more defense. There are definitely those who like defense, but most people fall into 2 categories: 1. Looking for large scale fights. 2. Roamers. Let’s hope those 2 categories are happy with the new map.

joneirikb.7506:

lil devils x.6071:

joneirikb.7506:

That is so weird, because I’ve seen more of the opposite, that people like the borderlands, but don’t like EBG. Might just be a perspective thing. My own guild is a WvW roaming guild, and we stick to Borderlands 90% of the time, most of us find EBG pretty boring because you’re funneled into big fights all the time, and don’t have the space to run around behind groups or objectives effectively.

So I guess this is just a matter of perspective/opinion/taste. When people call EBG waypoint in mapchat, I don’t bother going there, I’ll go do something else on the Borderlands instead.

Why is that? I am in T1 and I still solo’d a T3 Ql from BG my second day here. I do roaming, defense, scouting and zerg, and you can do it all on EBG too.. Unless you are in one of the broke Tiers, that isn’t caused by map landscape though it is caused by a broken Tier system. I play on all maps, but I am also frequently the one making calls to save keeps and towers, and receiving responses from those I am calling to come help.

Hey we’ve taken down T3 keeps with a couple of people quite a few times. I personally wouldn’t be able to take down a T3 tower alone just yet, but with 2 it would work. And we’re currently in Tier 7 (Server listed in signature) and we keep bouncing back and forth between different matches where we are top, bottom and middle, so no complains there, we’re having a great time!

The reason is that EBG and BL are designed differently, for different people. Borderlands is more open, more paths, more distance between objectives, more alternative paths. It is easy to sneak around objects and groups to get to things behind them. And for people (like my guild) we enjoy this mode and the many “small fights” that happens this way, usually 5 or less players on each side.

Where EBG is designed to funnel players into specific paths, where all the objectives are stringed together like pearls on a string, this encourages players to group together as they encounter each others on the “paths”, and creates a more group fight mentality map. I don’t really enjoy that, since I like small fights, but others really enjoy it.

So it is a GREAT thing that the two maps are different, so people can play what they enjoy, and go to the playstyle that suits them. I am really looking forward to the new map and hoping that it will be different from both the existing maps, so we can have even more different ways to play this game. And just because their said that they will add “heights” to the game doesn’t mean it will be instant deaths like EotM, imagine lots of heights the like of keep walls, where you fall down, take 5% fall damage, and just been placed in a position out of combat where you have to run back. That could be very fun and tactical in combat. Fear 3-4 enemies off the edge, so you got 1-2 minutes before they can run back to turn the tide of the fight.

I hope we get a keep shaped like a Ziggurat, where we fight on the different “layers” upward, with breaking gates to access stairs to the next layer. All the fun with fear and knockback to split up fights, the lord on the top, being able to watch the attackers stream up through the layers coming at you etc.

Hah! I see the BL as just the opposite and far more linear, and see EBG as much more open, how you can sneak off the outskirts of the map and run behind towers undetected, with many ways and paths to hit the towers . You can hit towers without even being seen from the trenches, and camps. I look at the BL as defensive maps, making it easy to watch the paths where players are forced to go since they cannot just run up the side of the cliff with easily watchable paths with properly placed scouts. The heights are defensive making it more difficult for the opposing team to make a move without being detected. Of course on T1, you have enough people to do that and that may be why you see it different.
If scouts were properly utilized , you could not make a move on a BL without being detected.

style.6173:

@OP:

I hope you are right. Simple maps are better than more complex.

That said, ANET seems to believe that adding more gimmicks makes a good map. They also seem to think that most people want more defense. There are definitely those who like defense, but most people fall into 2 categories: 1. Looking for large scale fights. 2. Roamers. Let’s hope those 2 categories are happy with the new map.

I think if they added more player reward for defense, we could get more people to play defense. Some just want the quick Ktrain fix, and that would suit them well if they could receive that by defending targets too.

I see it as more groups though: 1) K trainers 2) Zerg fighters, 3) Gank squads, 4) Zerg PPT junkies, 5) Havoc( taking towers) 6) roamers doing frogs, camps ect.. 7) defenders and scouts. Our defenders and scouts group is where it is usually lacking.

I hope they add and improved EOTM to the rotation as well, this way we could have 3 different borderland maps.

lil devils x.6071:

Loosmaster.8263:

I miss you Devil, come home…lol

You should come to JQ!! You would love it here! It is so much fun, and the community is awesome!!

PS. Right now transfer costs are the same regardless of tier, so it is like transferring to JQ is on sale!

Been there, done that and got the Greatsword to prove it. Unfotunately I still stand firm about not buying gems and I’m not grinding for gold. So unless they give out free transfers, I’ll be stuck with the rest at the bottom of T8 again. Have fun there and tell Graphic from Chillin and Killin I said hello.