Guild Wars 2

So under the current system WXP is awarded for multiple actions that everyone can participate on relative equal footing, such as killing yaks, defense, and captures. However one aspect where this is untrue would be in the case of support vs. damage roles.

For example as a Guardian I am defending a tower where we work to bottle up people at a choke point via the multitude of bubbles, wards, and immobilizes that we have available to us. Our AoE DPS/CC support us typically at range (some melee) and our Single Target DPS typically support us via siege (arrow carts/ballista). This setup is overall very effective and we are often able to hold a tower vs. significantly greater numbers.

The problem is that if you compare the WXP gains of the Guardians who create the “kill box” that makes this strategy efficient vs. those running the siege, the difference in “kill credit” and therefore WXP gains is staggering… typically around 5 times more.

This is a coordinated effort by our team, but yet playing a supporting role… probably the most important role in the strategy, yields significantly less rewards seems off. There are other examples of this for every class I am sure, but the common theme is that those that play a supporting role are not equally rewarded for their time and effort.

Considering that WvW is very team oriented, it seems to me that the implementation where individually “tagging” in order to get “kill credit” in order to gain WXP for said kill significantly hinders WXP progression for those that choose to play supportive roles, rather than pure damage roles. Wouldn’t it make more sense to reward everyone in a group for the kills performed by the group, rather than kill credit be associated with the individual? This would further promote grouping and I can’t see any glaring problems (maybe AFK’ers, but I suspect this would be a limited problem).

I would love to hear others thoughts on this, and thank you for reading.

+1;

As with any MMO, the developers tend to cater to the majority being DPS based players.

Look at the foods for example, plenty of it goes into DPS based options, where are the supportive ones? Same goes for the accessories as well. I would like to see foods and accessories tailord to boon/consecration skills.

But in WvW yes, those of us guardians who have a sense of selflessness get the shorter end of the stick when it comes to rewards.

INC, (Sanctuary/Bubble/Line of Warding) Nice Sanctuary/etc TY So much now excuse me while I get my kill counts up!, “Great Job every one ! collect your bags”!, (Overhearing in the background) this is a lot of bags"…(Me: …hm, I only got 3 bags…)

^ This, is the average zerg fight for me, while every one else is pretty much relying on us guardians to CC and heal. I can be selfish just like every one else and worry about my kill counts, but if I do that, we wont be alive to collect our bags…

This just sucks for us doesnt it.

Prolly because it’s harder to judge positive, strategic use of herding skills instead of counting hitbox events

I summon Staff Water 5 and Water 3, and I don’t get anything either

If WXP is changed to be proportional to the amount of contribution/dmg to the kill, then sure I am all in favor of your suggestion, because I agree with the base issue.

If it stays the way it is now, everyone that tags get’s the same amount, which already devalues WXP too a meaningless level, then I would be opposed to the suggestion because it is already to easy to get WXP, making it so everyone in group gets it because one person in that group gets a tag… just too excessive, imo.

Overall how you earn WXP has made it meaningless to me personally so I am not sure why people even care that much? Outside of a few OP siege masteries the abilities are junk and since WXP rank directly correlates to how much of a zerger you are, what is the rush to have more?

Niim.9260:

If WXP is changed to be proportional to the amount of contribution/dmg to the kill, then sure I am all in favor of your suggestion, because I agree with the base issue.

If it stays the way it is now, everyone that tags get’s the same amount, which already devalues WXP too a meaningless level, then I would be opposed to the suggestion because it is already to easy to get WXP, making it so everyone in group gets it because one person in that group gets a tag… just too excessive, imo.

Overall how you earn WXP has made it meaningless to me personally so I am not sure why people even care that much? Outside of a few OP siege masteries the abilities are junk and since WXP rank directly correlates to how much of a zerger you are, what is the rush to have more?

Its the principle…

Why should players who “tag” as many targets as they can in a zerg fight get more WXP than the ones who cant "tag’ as many targets due to dropping CC and healing?

Every one should be treated equal, every one should be offered the same amount, regardless if they DPS or Support.

Littlefeather.8623:

Niim.9260:

If WXP is changed to be proportional to the amount of contribution/dmg to the kill, then sure I am all in favor of your suggestion, because I agree with the base issue.

If it stays the way it is now, everyone that tags get’s the same amount, which already devalues WXP too a meaningless level, then I would be opposed to the suggestion because it is already to easy to get WXP, making it so everyone in group gets it because one person in that group gets a tag… just too excessive, imo.

Overall how you earn WXP has made it meaningless to me personally so I am not sure why people even care that much? Outside of a few OP siege masteries the abilities are junk and since WXP rank directly correlates to how much of a zerger you are, what is the rush to have more?

Its the principle…

Why should players who “tag” as many targets as they can in a zerg fight get more WXP than the ones who cant "tag’ as many targets due to dropping CC and healing?

Every one should be treated equal, every one should be offered the same amount, regardless if they DPS or Support.

You have equal opportunity to attack and support. You only choose to do one of those while others are doing both.

Supporter tag
Anet could implement an additional tag. If a supporter puts a boon, heal or whatever on an allied players, than that supporter could inderectly tag all targets the allied players taged. That would allow supporters to be able to gain the same loot, XP and WXP by only supporting.

CC tag
And for those, who focus on CC. Every time an enemy player hits a guardian’s wall thingy, or gets CCed through stun, daze or conditions, they should be taged by that CC supporter.

One must maybe apply respectivly a minimum ammount of healing, boon duration and accumulated CC duration for the apropriate tag to come in place, like for DPS a minimum ammount of dmg is required. But I could imagen those additional tags can be implemented and help diverse the ammount of builds used and focus some more an CC and support.

Should be spread out via group. And by that I mean the Max player allowed group being 5. If someone in your group tags an enemy, you get a piece of the pie divided by 5 and scaled to how much they actually did to the target. Cc shouldn’t awar you any wxp. It needs to be based off kills. And it should scale. Take away the crap of tag as many as possible and introduce “actually earn” the wxp. It should be group centered. Just because the 10 teals around me tagged an enemy, if my grp did 70-80% of the kill, they should get basically nothing.

kokocabana.8153:

Littlefeather.8623:

Niim.9260:

If WXP is changed to be proportional to the amount of contribution/dmg to the kill, then sure I am all in favor of your suggestion, because I agree with the base issue.

If it stays the way it is now, everyone that tags get’s the same amount, which already devalues WXP too a meaningless level, then I would be opposed to the suggestion because it is already to easy to get WXP, making it so everyone in group gets it because one person in that group gets a tag… just too excessive, imo.

Overall how you earn WXP has made it meaningless to me personally so I am not sure why people even care that much? Outside of a few OP siege masteries the abilities are junk and since WXP rank directly correlates to how much of a zerger you are, what is the rush to have more?

Its the principle…

Why should players who “tag” as many targets as they can in a zerg fight get more WXP than the ones who cant "tag’ as many targets due to dropping CC and healing?

Every one should be treated equal, every one should be offered the same amount, regardless if they DPS or Support.

You have equal opportunity to attack and support. You only choose to do one of those while others are doing both.

You intend to imply me using a skill with skill lag and a casting time is the same amount of time efficiency as x player spamming #1 with no cast time?
I suppose I could cast my Sanctuary and ~3 seconds later (due to lag) start spamming #1, and not cast my Line of Warding or Sheild of Absorbtion and let us get rolled over? Is this what you suggest?

Littlefeather.8623:

kokocabana.8153:

Littlefeather.8623:

Niim.9260:

If WXP is changed to be proportional to the amount of contribution/dmg to the kill, then sure I am all in favor of your suggestion, because I agree with the base issue.

If it stays the way it is now, everyone that tags get’s the same amount, which already devalues WXP too a meaningless level, then I would be opposed to the suggestion because it is already to easy to get WXP, making it so everyone in group gets it because one person in that group gets a tag… just too excessive, imo.

Overall how you earn WXP has made it meaningless to me personally so I am not sure why people even care that much? Outside of a few OP siege masteries the abilities are junk and since WXP rank directly correlates to how much of a zerger you are, what is the rush to have more?

Its the principle…

Why should players who “tag” as many targets as they can in a zerg fight get more WXP than the ones who cant "tag’ as many targets due to dropping CC and healing?

Every one should be treated equal, every one should be offered the same amount, regardless if they DPS or Support.

You have equal opportunity to attack and support. You only choose to do one of those while others are doing both.

You intend to imply me using a skill with skill lag and a casting time is the same amount of time efficiency as x player spamming #1 with no cast time?
I suppose I could cast my Sanctuary and ~3 seconds later (due to lag) start spamming #1, and not cast my Line of Warding or Sheild of Absorbtion and let us get rolled over? Is this what you suggest?

I think the problem you’re describing is skill lag.

Without skill lag, my support guardian tags tons of people in the sort of choke point holding situation you’re describing. Staff is amazing for tagging as is being in melee. I don’t think there’s any build that only uses non-attack skills.

Support is so easy to abuse. If MMO players weren’t such hacks, they probably could add it along with orbs and other cool stuff. It just isn’t worth the effort. To many people cheat.

Littlefeather.8623:

Niim.9260:

If WXP is changed to be proportional to the amount of contribution/dmg to the kill, then sure I am all in favor of your suggestion, because I agree with the base issue.

If it stays the way it is now, everyone that tags get’s the same amount, which already devalues WXP too a meaningless level, then I would be opposed to the suggestion because it is already to easy to get WXP, making it so everyone in group gets it because one person in that group gets a tag… just too excessive, imo.

Overall how you earn WXP has made it meaningless to me personally so I am not sure why people even care that much? Outside of a few OP siege masteries the abilities are junk and since WXP rank directly correlates to how much of a zerger you are, what is the rush to have more?

Its the principle…

Why should players who “tag” as many targets as they can in a zerg fight get more WXP than the ones who cant "tag’ as many targets due to dropping CC and healing?

Every one should be treated equal, every one should be offered the same amount, regardless if they DPS or Support.

What about the other principles?

Why should someone running around tagging things get more WXP then the people that are actually fighting and making sure people die? If I do 90% of the damage to someone and thus not tagging a bunch of other people, I get less WXP then the people that are tagging and doing a few % damage to a bunch of targets.

Obviously it is my choice to focus someone down and make sure they die rather then worry about tagging, just as it is my choice to focus on support and not worry about tagging, when I play a support role.

styx.7294:

Littlefeather.8623:

kokocabana.8153:

Littlefeather.8623:

Niim.9260:

If WXP is changed to be proportional to the amount of contribution/dmg to the kill, then sure I am all in favor of your suggestion, because I agree with the base issue.

If it stays the way it is now, everyone that tags get’s the same amount, which already devalues WXP too a meaningless level, then I would be opposed to the suggestion because it is already to easy to get WXP, making it so everyone in group gets it because one person in that group gets a tag… just too excessive, imo.

Overall how you earn WXP has made it meaningless to me personally so I am not sure why people even care that much? Outside of a few OP siege masteries the abilities are junk and since WXP rank directly correlates to how much of a zerger you are, what is the rush to have more?

Its the principle…

Why should players who “tag” as many targets as they can in a zerg fight get more WXP than the ones who cant "tag’ as many targets due to dropping CC and healing?

Every one should be treated equal, every one should be offered the same amount, regardless if they DPS or Support.

You have equal opportunity to attack and support. You only choose to do one of those while others are doing both.

You intend to imply me using a skill with skill lag and a casting time is the same amount of time efficiency as x player spamming #1 with no cast time?
I suppose I could cast my Sanctuary and ~3 seconds later (due to lag) start spamming #1, and not cast my Line of Warding or Sheild of Absorbtion and let us get rolled over? Is this what you suggest?

I think the problem you’re describing is skill lag.

Without skill lag, my support guardian tags tons of people in the sort of choke point holding situation you’re describing. Staff is amazing for tagging as is being in melee. I don’t think there’s any build that only uses non-attack skills.

Yes it can be read this way, but every one can agree, with or without skill lag its still much more time effecient to spam #1 in a zerg v zerg v zerg battle than use any skill which requires a casting time. The skill lag is a related issue, but dont deter the topic please. People who focus on DPS recieve much more WXP than those who NEED* to focus on Support.

i think i might have a solution, just an idea really, but what if everyone in that area during combat gets all kills for wxp, even without tagging, (i’m not saying lootbag, its different) so if 10players were kill everyone at tht battle would all get kill xp for all 10players, but if u came into combat during mid and 5 died during ur time there u get xp for 5players, this way its easier for all players to take roles, (such as repairing tedious gates, which do give wxp, but cmon i rather man AC’s), or support roles like guardians who bottleneck chokespoints really well. the only thing really needed for adjusting here would be how much wxp a player gives if they implemented this system.

Niim.9260:

Littlefeather.8623:

Niim.9260:

If WXP is changed to be proportional to the amount of contribution/dmg to the kill, then sure I am all in favor of your suggestion, because I agree with the base issue.

If it stays the way it is now, everyone that tags get’s the same amount, which already devalues WXP too a meaningless level, then I would be opposed to the suggestion because it is already to easy to get WXP, making it so everyone in group gets it because one person in that group gets a tag… just too excessive, imo.

Overall how you earn WXP has made it meaningless to me personally so I am not sure why people even care that much? Outside of a few OP siege masteries the abilities are junk and since WXP rank directly correlates to how much of a zerger you are, what is the rush to have more?

Its the principle…

Why should players who “tag” as many targets as they can in a zerg fight get more WXP than the ones who cant "tag’ as many targets due to dropping CC and healing?

Every one should be treated equal, every one should be offered the same amount, regardless if they DPS or Support.

What about the other principles?

Why should someone running around tagging things get more WXP then the people that are actually fighting and making sure people die? If I do 90% of the damage to someone and thus not tagging a bunch of other people, I get less WXP then the people that are tagging and doing a few % damage to a bunch of targets.

Obviously it is my choice to focus someone down and make sure they die rather then worry about tagging, just as it is my choice to focus on support and not worry about tagging, when I play a support role.

If your sole purpose in a ZvZ battle is to DPS than I would assume you are a good+ DPS character, I would hope so atleast. Therefore, by that premise you should be able to burn down 2 people by the time I get my second CC off (before I even go to “tagging”). Then while your working on your third I should be getting my last CC off, than I need to heal, by that time you should be finishing off your 4th kill. I would assume some of your DPS skills are AoE as well, so its safe to say you should get credit for at least 4 kill, while I am working on my first one.

Littlefeather.8623:

Niim.9260:

Littlefeather.8623:

Niim.9260:

If WXP is changed to be proportional to the amount of contribution/dmg to the kill, then sure I am all in favor of your suggestion, because I agree with the base issue.

If it stays the way it is now, everyone that tags get’s the same amount, which already devalues WXP too a meaningless level, then I would be opposed to the suggestion because it is already to easy to get WXP, making it so everyone in group gets it because one person in that group gets a tag… just too excessive, imo.

Overall how you earn WXP has made it meaningless to me personally so I am not sure why people even care that much? Outside of a few OP siege masteries the abilities are junk and since WXP rank directly correlates to how much of a zerger you are, what is the rush to have more?

Its the principle…

Why should players who “tag” as many targets as they can in a zerg fight get more WXP than the ones who cant "tag’ as many targets due to dropping CC and healing?

Every one should be treated equal, every one should be offered the same amount, regardless if they DPS or Support.

What about the other principles?

Why should someone running around tagging things get more WXP then the people that are actually fighting and making sure people die? If I do 90% of the damage to someone and thus not tagging a bunch of other people, I get less WXP then the people that are tagging and doing a few % damage to a bunch of targets.

Obviously it is my choice to focus someone down and make sure they die rather then worry about tagging, just as it is my choice to focus on support and not worry about tagging, when I play a support role.

If your sole purpose in a ZvZ battle is to DPS than I would assume you are a good+ DPS character, I would hope so atleast. Therefore, by that premise you should be able to burn down 2 people by the time I get my second CC off (before I even go to “tagging”). Then while your working on your third I should be getting my last CC off, than I need to heal, by that time you should be finishing off your 4th kill. I would assume some of your DPS skills are AoE as well, so its safe to say you should get credit for at least 4 kill, while I am working on my first one.

Why are you comparing against support, when my statement was in reference to a tagger? I never said support has equal capacity for tagging, I am saying that anyone playing the role of Support or DPS and are focusing on doing their jobs will get less WXP then someone that just focuses on tagging.

The principle of the system is broken and strongly favor’s farming the system rather then actually having an impact in the fight. Changing it so that a group gets full credit for the separate actions of each of its members, just makes it even easier to farm the system, imo.

Niim.9260:

Why are you comparing against support, when my statement was in reference to a tagger? I never said support has equal capacity for tagging, I am saying that anyone playing the role of Support or DPS and are focusing on doing their jobs will get less WXP then someone that just focuses on tagging.

The principle of the system is broken and strongly favor’s farming the system rather then actually playing the game. Changing it so that a group gets full credit for the separate actions of each of its members, just makes it even easier to farm the system, imo.

“Why are you comparing against support, when my statement was in reference to a tagger?”

- In this statement -

“If your sole purpose in a ZvZ battle is to DPS than I would assume you are a good+ DPS character, I would hope so atleast. Therefore, by that premise you should be able to burn down 2 people by the time I get my second CC off (before I even go to “tagging”)."

- Im not -

^ This relates to:

“Obviously it is my choice to focus someone down and make sure they die rather then worry about tagging, just as it is my choice to focus on support and not worry about tagging, when I play a support role.”

I merely used your aspect of “DPS” which implies your single target/focus on one target at a time, you should be able to tell by the context of my wording.

/On topic;

I can care less of how WXP gets distributed, I think the focus of this thread is we hope it can be distributed equally though.

Littlefeather.8623:

I can care less of how WXP gets distributed, I think the focus of this thread is we hope it can be distributed equally though.

It is not distributed equally in the current system because tagger > everyone else. Regardless of role, solo or in a group, if you are doing your job and focusing on that, you earn less WXP then someone that focuses on tags.

The original suggestion just focuses on the difference in the people to the right of the >, not the greater imbalance of the people that just tag.

Give the heavies some luvin’ Anet.