Guild Wars 2

1) Take away the 5 target limit on AoEs. Standing in the AoE with all of your team mates is the best defense to AoE. This is counter intuitive, and supports sloppy gameplay. Make people use some tactics other than hit tab and auto attack while standing in a pile. If you are too lazy to get out of AoE, you should be punished, not rewarded.

2) Make gates immune to damage other than siege, like walls are now. This still gives gates a purpose, because they can be rammed/golemmed. The current state of the game allows for a zerg of 40+ to just auto attack the gates down in no time. This is pretty disturbing. Why even have siege if this is possible?

Change these two items and skill peeks its head back into the fight. The poor players that rely on the current zerg tactics will get better, or die trying. This makes the fight more fun for everyone. It is no fun to fight half the people playing in wvw now, because they are all terrible, relying on the zerg crutch. Give them a reason to learn and adapt. It will make it better for everyone.

Yes, remove the aoe cap!

Is PvD really that big an issue (In T8 if we tried that, it would be time to grab a snickers and maybe order pizza)

Ungood.3054:

Is PvD really that big an issue (In T8 if we tried that, it would be time to grab a snickers and maybe order pizza)

Tier 8 sounds awesome.
Not sarcasm, by the way. I miss the days where a 10 man could get work done, either on O or D. Seems like all ten mans are good for now is ninja caps and leading the mindless zerg on a goose chase.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-Explain-the-Logic-of-the-AoE-Limit/first
Short answer: no.

Iruwen.3164:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-Explain-the-Logic-of-the-AoE-Limit/first
Short answer: no.

Yeah, a bunch of skilless zergers want to keep the limit in tact because they are too bad to get out of the AoE. Big shock. That is my point. These players will never ever get good at the game, and they are missing out on a ton of fun by sticking to this mindless fighting style where its a good thing to stand in AoE.

I agree, you are supposed to fend off an invading force if you are prepared. We were prepared in defending Cragtop and managed to destroy every siege invaders built. Eventually they ran out of supplies and proceeded to just auto-attack the gates down with 50 people they had in front of the tower by then. It was silly.

elorei.6251:

Iruwen.3164:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-Explain-the-Logic-of-the-AoE-Limit/first
Short answer: no.

Yeah, a bunch of skilless zergers want to keep the limit in tact because they are too bad to get out of the AoE. Big shock. That is my point. These players will never ever get good at the game, and they are missing out on a ton of fun by sticking to this mindless fighting style where its a good thing to stand in AoE.

Yep, because everybody with a different opinion just can’t play. Totally not related to balancing problems and area denial. That’s the spirit, keep going.

gabal.4520:

I agree, you are supposed to fend off an invading force if you are prepared. We were prepared in defending Cragtop and managed to destroy every siege invaders built. Eventually they ran out of supplies and proceeded to just auto-attack the gates down with 50 people they had in front of the tower by then. It was silly.

LOL that is hilarious! What’s even worse about situations like that is, maybe there were a few people who could’ve helped in defending but they couldn’t make it passed those 50 people blocking the only entrance and doing a little repairing to hold until backup arrives is pretty much a death sentence.

I think if a group of 5 can wipe 50 or 60 without an aoe cap, then they deserved to get wiped. I don’t see how a good group of 30 with good composition can ever wipe to a group with 5 with no aoe cap.

Please put the emphasis on skill rather then numbers.

This would of course make Guardians and Warriors obsolete, unless the skills were reworked to include at least some aoe.

Another option is to damage cap it. For instance it will hit every person in the aoe, 5 ppl will take 1000 dmg each, 10 ppl will take 500 dmg each… etc

On the flip who is to say a Zerg doesn’t abuse this? It would make any class in melee range useless.

If they remove the AoE cap I’m rerolling Elementalist… along with everyone else.

Allowing players to attacks gates in mass zergs gives the attackers a strong disadvantage by bringing up the orange swords alerting the defenders that the tower is under attack.

elorei.6251:

1) Take away the 5 target limit on AoEs. Standing in the AoE with all of your team mates is the best defense to AoE. This is counter intuitive, and supports sloppy gameplay. Make people use some tactics other than hit tab and auto attack while standing in a pile. If you are too lazy to get out of AoE, you should be punished, not rewarded.

No. Go to any T1 fight, if you see an enemy stacked, you will laugh at them and proceed to kill them. This why might stacking in the middle of an engagement is tantamount to suicide. You do not stack up in plain LoS, you stack behind kitten, buff, and then charge (no longer being stacked) and go from there.

You must also consider what happens when you uncap all AoE that includes: healing (invincible zergs, we had this for a while before they capped healing), boons (invincible zergs), condition removal (invincible zergs), and the zerg too will not be able to blow away any force smaller than it with its uncapped AoE. You seem to think that the AoE will somehow not uncap for the zerg too, and all you’ve now effectively done is make the zerg MORE powerful while also turning every. single. engagement. into a ping check of who can shoot first.

Also I hope you like invisible zergs too because that’s what you’re going to get from an uncapped, constantly refreshed Shadow Refuge and Mass Invisibility.

Meanwhile I’ll just say:
l2siege
l2linespell

elorei.6251:

2) Make gates immune to damage other than siege, like walls are now. This still gives gates a purpose, because they can be rammed/golemmed. The current state of the game allows for a zerg of 40+ to just auto attack the gates down in no time. This is pretty disturbing. Why even have siege if this is possible?

I am ok with this.

I like suggestion 2, 1 on the other hand…

Removing AoE cap would make everybuild a AoE build and make it just unbalanced.. I think if anything; they should increase the AoE cap from 5 to 7-10 or so. That’ll make a huge difference alone.

The only way I could support a removal of the AoE cap would be a severe nurf to damage output from AoEs.

If you do not nerf the damage, you’ll give too much power to a class.

please detail this , i misunderstood you
you want an mesmer to use sumon clones /dodge – cry of frustration – 9 stacks of confusion to 50 ppls, drop an time warp … haste for 50 ally’s//null field -remove boons from 50 enemy’s
elementalist- use an static field and stun 50 ppls/ staff fire 2/3 hit another 50 targets
then an engineir use the elite and stun another 40 ppls
guardian’s dodge should also heal 50 ppls at once
however an broken gate, closed with 30 supply’s should take no damage from 70 ppls

I would like to share a tale from early beta: In BWE 1, arrow carts had a 1 second CD. they were then nerfed to the present 3-sec CD because they could output to much AOE damage. the same logic holds behind the AOE cap.

I totally agree with suggestion 2. It would also make WPs worth their status as a T3 Structural upgrade, since you’d need to build siege to contest it.

I don’t understand all this urge to remove the aoe limit. Do you not even consider retaliation?

They need to fix retaliation before they remove the aoe cap. If it was removed eles and those with aoe that hits mutliple times would kill themselves with one cast.

Right now the aoe limit actually protects us. Remove the limit and the big zergs will abuse having retaliation and smaller group will just kill themselves with no need for the zerg to even press 1.

I think removing the AoE limit would do more harm than good.

I like that large group fighting in this game allows and promotes close quarters combat. Having it so that most people will be ranged and staring at each other from max attack range or inside keeps/towers is boring and lame. Removing the cap would be a big step in that direction.

1. Removing the cap would probably break the game even more. Zerg strength would multiply exponentially, put more players against less enemies to win automatically. The only thing it would “prevent” is balling up in small groups on a small area. Which is kind of stupid, since that’s Guild gameplay and what many, many enjoy more than zerging.

2. This would cause a problem of economics, ie the rich win every time. Cant afford siege? No keeps for you, cause you cant get in, haha! No. The solution is to introduce a damage cap against gates, ie only say 5 people can damage them at once and after that its “blocked” (but any number of siege can hurt it).

Dawdler.8521:

2. This would cause a problem of economics, ie the rich win every time. Cant afford siege? No keeps for you, cause you cant get in, haha! No. The solution is to introduce a damage cap against gates, ie only say 5 people can damage them at once and after that its “blocked” (but any number of siege can hurt it).

You don’t have any badges? You can buy siege with badges.

I am willing to concede that removing the AoE cap might have issues. I stand by the doors should not be destroyable with normal attacks though.

After what I did playing a Bright Wizard in Warhammer, and what I did playing a Warlock in Everquest II to hoards of players, my answer is NO! If you had no limite on AoEs, no one would play anything but an AE class, and this is coming from someone who has a Glamour Mesmer who practically doesn’t have an AE limit, and someone who also plays a Wells/Mark necro, collecting an ungodly amount of bags every big fight.

No caps on AoEs is the lazy mans way of saying; “I don’t want to fight”.

I agree that players shouldn’t be able to damage the gate as well as they do, but it is what it is.

elorei.6251:

You don’t have any badges? You can buy siege with badges.

Of course you can. You can also get it from the JP or from laurels (cant remember if you can get it from guild marks too). That’s beside the point. The point is that getting into a keep would require a currency/resources. IE the ones with it get it easy, the ones without dont get in at all. You block players from doing it.

Having a damage cap on the gate would just negate the zerg aspect. 5 or 50 people bashing down a door – roughly the same speed at which you bring down the HP (ie very, very, very slowly). But those 5 people still CAN do it without having resources, if the defenders let them. The focus of getting through a door is on siege if you really want to take the keep fast enough not to have enemies constantly drop in. When an actual zerg attacks, the cap would just give a minor boost to damage compared to siege, the more siege you bring the less it will matter.

Its important to “get the ball rolling” in WvW, sort of speak. Anyone, even a group of level 1 noobs that’s never been in WvW before, should be able to take a keep (unlikely that they succeed, but you get the idea).

Removing the AOE limit would be a good thing for every skill except for the ranger skill with the arrow shower. It would be too over powered. It would be fine for arrow carts since they are a siege weapon for defense after all.

SomeoneElse.3685:

Removing the AOE limit would be a good thing for every skill except for the ranger skill with the arrow shower. It would be too over powered. It would be fine for arrow carts since they are a siege weapon for defense after all.

Arrow cart and siege is already “uncapped” (20-25 or whatever it is).

Dawdler.8521:

1. Removing the cap would probably break the game even more. Zerg strength would multiply exponentially, put more players against less enemies to win automatically. The only thing it would “prevent” is balling up in small groups on a small area. Which is kind of stupid, since that’s Guild gameplay and what many, many enjoy more than zerging.

2. This would cause a problem of economics, ie the rich win every time. Cant afford siege? No keeps for you, cause you cant get in, haha! No. The solution is to introduce a damage cap against gates, ie only say 5 people can damage them at once and after that its “blocked” (but any number of siege can hurt it).

OK, your arguments made me realize that removing AoE cap would create an unbalanced gameplay unless it is tied in with other changes but I still stand with the idea that doors should be treated as walls and be destructible only by siege. And don’t make me laugh with “economics problem”. I get all my siege with badges, from random drops and from jumping puzzle. You don’t have to spend a single silver on a siege if you don’t choose to do it. Right now you don’t even need siege if you have big enough zerg as you can auto-attack the gates down in minutes with defenders being unable to do anything about it. Hell, you can’t even repair the gates if you have supply as you’ll die from AoE and mesmer phantasms passing through gates.

I’m beginning to think that the major issues remaining in WvW are not fixable… not because there are no solutions but at least one of the following is true for each problem:
-The servers cannot handle it
-The devs don’t understand aspects of their game and/or player base
-Large numbers of lazy and/or bad players would complain and changes would be reverted.

Leave Normal gates as they are but make reinforced gates VERY hard to take down without siege.
my 2ct.

Also at unpapped AoE:
2 Zergs staring at eachother in a deadlock, constantly spamming AoE at max range while standing barely out of range of eachother. Whoever takes a step forward will die.

Also, I don’t wanna know, how much damage a ranger would take barraging into 80 guys loaded with Aegis(traited burn and retal on removal) from a SINGLE Guardian who just happened to use “Retreat!”.
Would probably load up with 5 minutes of burn(well, fortunately, there is a cap to that…) and deal around 15-20k unblockable and irreducible damage per volley from all the retal stacks.
The brave ranger trying to cripple the zerg at 1500 range in spite of a single CR removing all the cripple would be toast instantly… (pretty much like now, a nade engi is toast against an aegis stacked zerg)

2) would also prevent solo thieves from blocking a waypoint for 3 mins since they won’t do any damage to the door. That would also allow the dev team to disable the splitsecond between “defend this” events where defenders are allowed to port in.

Overall, i support both suggestions. The amount of mindless zerging could be greatly reduced.

Leave Normal gates as they are but make reinforced gates VERY hard to take down without siege.

Not very hard; impossible, regardless of gate “quality”, just like walls are now. Additionally, i would increase the hp on walls by at least 50-100%.

2 Zergs staring at eachother in a deadlock, constantly spamming AoE at max range while standing barely out of range of eachother. Whoever takes a step forward will die.

You know, THAT is the situation when players should learn to not blob but instead split into smaller teams, start flanking the enemy and actually use tactics instead of mindlessly spamming “1”.

They will still zerg. You can load whole groups with aegis with a single shout. Null Field, Well of Corruption, wells in generall… It will be boon centered. Heavily boon centered.

20 shout warriors, 15 guardians, 10 mesmers, 10 necros, 10 elementalists…
heal spam out of hell.

This is so funny. :-)

1. If you remove Doorhammer 80% of the WvW population will be completely lost and are going to whine about how terribad the game has become and how much better it was before.

2. If you break the zerg 80% of the WvW population will be completely lost and are going to whine about how terribad the game has become and how much better it was before.

3. If you remove the aoe cap, 80% of the WvW population will be completely lost and are going to whine about how terribad the game has become and how much better it was before. There should never be an aoe cap, but without colision on toons and no trinity Anet has no other option.

Add to that

4. If you remove Guards and Lords and go for a capture the flag system, 80% of the WvW population will be completely lost and are going to whine about how terribad the game has become and how much better it was before.

5. If you remove the ability to claim keeps, towers, toilets, laundry rooms, pubs, 80% of the WvW population will be completely lost and are going to whine about how terribad the game has become and how much better it was before.

Good luck, have fun.

1. Actually the best tactic against siege based AoE, and AoE in general, is to literally stack players up on the gate (multiple people, all occupying the exact same spot of ground). AoE can only hit five players at any given time. A lot of the higher tiers servers use this tactic. It’s scary when your previous 30-40 man zergball suddenly occupies a five foot space.

2. true, they can, but do you have any idea how long this often takes? Build a few ballistas and arrow carts while they’re busy face-ramming your door and have at them.

KStudios.2850:

1. Actually the best tactic against siege based AoE, and AoE in general, is to literally stack players up on the gate (multiple people, all occupying the exact same spot of ground). AoE can only hit five players at any given time. A lot of the higher tiers servers use this tactic. It’s scary when your previous 30-40 man zergball suddenly occupies a five foot space.

2. true, they can, but do you have any idea how long this often takes? Build a few ballistas and arrow carts while they’re busy face-ramming your door and have at them.

SIege AoE is capped at 50 targets. The only thing, you achieve by stacking is, you maximize the potential healing. It’s still risky, if there is a zerg waiting on the other side of the door and you don’t know of it, cause you will throw out all your water fields and blast finishers to outheal the 3-4 arrowcarts.

Seems like people keeps copy/pasting the same threads over and over and over and over again,

Sigh…. This thread again.

WvW is meant for large scale battles. There is nothing to be “Fixed” in regards to large scale battles “zergs”.

Removing AoE cap will simply create new much worse problems. Like 60 man zergs of Necros roflstomping their way through a bl.

There is actually something called sPvP, check it out.

Siege ignores the 5 player aoe cap. Just saying. More siege = more winning. Also, ballistas are stupid OP with skill 4. I 1 shot every npc in a camp with it at once. Shoot a player and they are fully dead. No down state at all. No chance to do anything. They could be standing inside the ballista at the time. No range is too close.

katniss.6735:

Siege ignores the 5 player aoe cap. Just saying. More siege = more winning. Also, ballistas are stupid OP with skill 4. I 1 shot every npc in a camp with it at once. Shoot a player and they are fully dead. No down state at all. No chance to do anything. They could be standing inside the ballista at the time. No range is too close.

All siege needs to hit harder.

All ballista should be able to put players in a downed state from the first skill in one shot. It shouldn’t take multiple shots or a grouping in a short range like with number 4 skill. It is shooting a large sharp projectile at a high velocity at you. Crossbows were able to penetrate full plate, what do you think these things could do to people then regardless of the armor they wore.

It should absolutely kill automatically.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

katniss.6735:

Siege ignores the 5 player aoe cap. Just saying. More siege = more winning. Also, ballistas are stupid OP with skill 4. I 1 shot every npc in a camp with it at once. Shoot a player and they are fully dead. No down state at all. No chance to do anything. They could be standing inside the ballista at the time. No range is too close.

All siege needs to hit harder.

All ballista should be able to put players in a downed state from the first skill in one shot. It shouldn’t take multiple shots or a grouping in a short range like with number 4 skill. It is shooting a large sharp projectile at a high velocity at you. Crossbows were able to penetrate full plate, what do you think these things could do to people then regardless of the armor they wore.

It should absolutely kill automatically.

so given the fact that in gw2 we can use magic and that our armor is magic enchanted does nothing to that?
ofc that can be apply to the balista to but then whats strongest the magic in the armor or the balista, given the amount of them we use and the price i think that it would be to expensiv to do if we look at it from the life ingame and then comes the balacing problem after

Korsbaek.9803:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

katniss.6735:

Siege ignores the 5 player aoe cap. Just saying. More siege = more winning. Also, ballistas are stupid OP with skill 4. I 1 shot every npc in a camp with it at once. Shoot a player and they are fully dead. No down state at all. No chance to do anything. They could be standing inside the ballista at the time. No range is too close.

All siege needs to hit harder.

All ballista should be able to put players in a downed state from the first skill in one shot. It shouldn’t take multiple shots or a grouping in a short range like with number 4 skill. It is shooting a large sharp projectile at a high velocity at you. Crossbows were able to penetrate full plate, what do you think these things could do to people then regardless of the armor they wore.

It should absolutely kill automatically.

so given the fact that in gw2 we can use magic and that our armor is magic enchanted does nothing to that?
ofc that can be apply to the balista to but then whats strongest the magic in the armor or the balista, given the amount of them we use and the price i think that it would be to expensiv to do if we look at it from the life ingame and then comes the balacing problem after

The projectiles my ballista shoots has a magic to it so that it rips through your magic barrier on the armor. That will fix your magic solution.

Siege should hit much much harder.