The thing I hate most about retaliation is its stupid scaling. Try playing an Engi in a zerg and you will realise why retal is ridiculous. 4 or five nade auto attacks and you’re down.
And don’t say “oh qq more engi” when one overpowered buff completely makes any hope of playing one of the 8 classes in a zerg close to impossible, making them obsolete in one of the growing parts of the game.
Then you have not bween paying attentuon since beta. Engineers have a melee AoE concussion bomb that AoEs confusion as well as a ranged AoE confusion. Sonic shriek is a cone AoE confusiin.
And what on earth is Sonic Shriek? There is no cone AoE confusion in this game. There is a cone daze on Necro war horn. What I think you’re referring to is the Engineer pistol 3, Static Shot, but that bounces 4 times applying 2 stacks of confusion on each bounce. Not really AoE cone.
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Theorycrafter.
I’ve tried this maybe 1,5 years ago. There is no way to apply stable AOE-confusion against guild zergs. You can argue, sure, but it will only show, what you never seen and/or took part in such fights.
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Seafarer’s Rest (EU): Liicher (Engi), Lii Cher (Warrior), Swf (Elem),
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There is no way to apply confusion to multiply people. Basically, there is no AOE-confusion.
Also, you can cleanse confusion from yourself easily but you can’t cleanse retaliation from the entire enemy zerg.
Learn the game before post.
Change confusion to once per sec and we have a deal. Also, yes, AoE confusion is possible using shatters. I don’t know where you get your information from, especially since you have a Mesmer and don’t know this. Please stop insulting people. You already had one post deleted.
“Change confusion to once per sec and we have a deal. "
What? Did you understand what you wrote? Once per second from… what?
Yeah, shatter, but… but no any illusions will live long enough in zerg. In good zerg sure, not just “hello we are rangers-randoms!”
Quite simple. In your post you posit to limit the damage from attacking multiple times per second to triggering retal once per second, regardless of the number of attacks or targets you’re hitting.
Since I can attack many many times per second using my various classes, I would also like to limit the number of times confusion can damage me per second to 1. Make that change and I’ll give you your damage from retal once per sec.
OMG, “hits per second” does NOT equal to “skills per second”
facepalm.jpg
#SAVEDONBASS from Ukraine!
Seafarer’s Rest (EU): Liicher (Engi), Lii Cher (Warrior), Swf (Elem),
Licharr (Guard), Lich Eir (Ranger), Alt Fh (Thief). Lii Cherr (Mesm), S Wf (Necr)
The thing I hate most about retaliation is its stupid scaling. Try playing an Engi in a zerg and you will realise why retal is ridiculous. 4 or five nade auto attacks and you’re down.
And don’t say “oh qq more engi” when one overpowered buff completely makes any hope of playing one of the 8 classes in a zerg close to impossible, making them obsolete in one of the growing parts of the game.
Then you have not bween paying attentuon since beta. Engineers have a melee AoE concussion bomb that AoEs confusion as well as a ranged AoE confusion. Sonic shriek is a cone AoE confusiin.
And what on earth is Sonic Shriek? There is no cone AoE confusion in this game. There is a cone daze on Necro war horn. What I think you’re referring to is the Engineer pistol 3, Static Shot, but that bounces 4 times applying 2 stacks of confusion on each bounce. Not really AoE cone.
The thing I hate most about retaliation is its stupid scaling. Try playing an Engi in a zerg and you will realise why retal is ridiculous. 4 or five nade auto attacks and you’re down.
And don’t say “oh qq more engi” when one overpowered buff completely makes any hope of playing one of the 8 classes in a zerg close to impossible, making them obsolete in one of the growing parts of the game.
Then you have not bween paying attentuon since beta. Engineers have a melee AoE concussion bomb that AoEs confusion as well as a ranged AoE confusion. Sonic shriek is a cone AoE confusiin.
And what on earth is Sonic Shriek? There is no cone AoE confusion in this game. There is a cone daze on Necro war horn. What I think you’re referring to is the Engineer pistol 3, Static Shot, but that bounces 4 times applying 2 stacks of confusion on each bounce. Not really AoE cone.
Someone linked it for you already. I always enjoy when people claim something doesn’t exist, when I use it every day.
As to engineer, I have been a engineer commander since release on JQ. Along with Boomstick, and about 8 more engineer commanders I could name. You seem to make a great deal of statements that do not reflect the reality of what occurs in game. If you actually think engineers are obsolete, PM me, I will gladly teach you a thing or two.
There is no way to apply confusion to multiply people. Basically, there is no AOE-confusion.
Also, you can cleanse confusion from yourself easily but you can’t cleanse retaliation from the entire enemy zerg.
Learn the game before post.
Change confusion to once per sec and we have a deal. Also, yes, AoE confusion is possible using shatters. I don’t know where you get your information from, especially since you have a Mesmer and don’t know this. Please stop insulting people. You already had one post deleted.
“Change confusion to once per sec and we have a deal. "
What? Did you understand what you wrote? Once per second from… what?
Yeah, shatter, but… but no any illusions will live long enough in zerg. In good zerg sure, not just “hello we are rangers-randoms!”
Quite simple. In your post you posit to limit the damage from attacking multiple times per second to triggering retal once per second, regardless of the number of attacks or targets you’re hitting.
Since I can attack many many times per second using my various classes, I would also like to limit the number of times confusion can damage me per second to 1. Make that change and I’ll give you your damage from retal once per sec.
OMG, “hits per second” does NOT equal to “skills per second”
facepalm.jpg
No, it doesn’t, and it’s also not skills per second, it’s attacks per second. Whirling Wrath? 7x confusion damage. Hundred blades? 12×. Etc, etc. I’m telling you that I want something, you’re telling me that you want something, they are obviously not the same (confusion != retaliation) but I don’t care. I’m merely stating a point: you want to limit damage from retal to once per second across all targets? I think that’s pure insanity. So, my compromise is to limit confusion damage to once per second and we’re even.
There is no way to apply confusion to multiply people. Basically, there is no AOE-confusion.
Also, you can cleanse confusion from yourself easily but you can’t cleanse retaliation from the entire enemy zerg.
Learn the game before post.
Change confusion to once per sec and we have a deal. Also, yes, AoE confusion is possible using shatters. I don’t know where you get your information from, especially since you have a Mesmer and don’t know this. Please stop insulting people. You already had one post deleted.
“Change confusion to once per sec and we have a deal. "
What? Did you understand what you wrote? Once per second from… what?
Yeah, shatter, but… but no any illusions will live long enough in zerg. In good zerg sure, not just “hello we are rangers-randoms!”
Quite simple. In your post you posit to limit the damage from attacking multiple times per second to triggering retal once per second, regardless of the number of attacks or targets you’re hitting.
Since I can attack many many times per second using my various classes, I would also like to limit the number of times confusion can damage me per second to 1. Make that change and I’ll give you your damage from retal once per sec.
OMG, “hits per second” does NOT equal to “skills per second”
facepalm.jpg
No, it doesn’t, and it’s also not skills per second, it’s attacks per second. Whirling Wrath? 7x confusion damage. Hundred blades? 12×. Etc, etc. I’m telling you that I want something, you’re telling me that you want something, they are obviously not the same (confusion != retaliation) but I don’t care. I’m merely stating a point: you want to limit damage from retal to once per second across all targets? I think that’s pure insanity. So, my compromise is to limit confusion damage to once per second and we’re even.
Oh dear God, please help me to not die from laugh while reading this!
100 baldes = 12x hits of Confusion? Wow!
Anyway, I want to limit Retaliation to once per second for THE SAME target, not overall – how many times I need repeat this?
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Seafarer’s Rest (EU): Liicher (Engi), Lii Cher (Warrior), Swf (Elem),
Licharr (Guard), Lich Eir (Ranger), Alt Fh (Thief). Lii Cherr (Mesm), S Wf (Necr)
Ok, I was wrong about channeled skills triggering confusion on each attack. Still, my point stands. You think taking 300 dmg from retal is bad? Try 5 stacks of confusion from a mesmer with 2k condi dmg. I swing my GS 3 times and I’m dead.
Try 5 stacks of confusion from a mesmer with 2k condi dmg.
Tried it many times. I’m just not using anything while it exists – it will be purged in 2-3 seconds anyway.
I’ve posted a vid in my thread with zerg fights, and anyone able to clearly see, what comparison of retal with conditions are NOT relevant, not even close.
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Seafarer’s Rest (EU): Liicher (Engi), Lii Cher (Warrior), Swf (Elem),
Licharr (Guard), Lich Eir (Ranger), Alt Fh (Thief). Lii Cherr (Mesm), S Wf (Necr)
Shrug. I never argued that confusion was a valid zerg counter. I only posited another, similar effect that I personally dislike having hit me every attack, and he has a problem with something else that hits him with every attack. He wants that limited to once per second. I want confusion limited to once per second. Neither of us is going to get our way, so it doesn’t matter.
And in the whole game, how many times did you see that compared to group retaliation? 1000-1? I have never ever seen aoe confusion and I play since the beta weekends.
If you had played since beta, then you’d know that “confusion bombing” with mesmer glamours was a pretty common tactic back in 2012 and early 2013. Infact, it got so out of hand, that they had to nerf confusion in WvW, hence it is not used much these days.
Never seen it, but could be because I played on lowest of tier back in the beginning.
And in the whole game, how many times did you see that compared to group retaliation? 1000-1? I have never ever seen aoe confusion and I play since the beta weekends.
If you had played since beta, then you’d know that “confusion bombing” with mesmer glamours was a pretty common tactic back in 2012 and early 2013. Infact, it got so out of hand, that they had to nerf confusion in WvW, hence it is not used much these days.
Never seen it, but could be because I played on lowest of tier back in the beginning.
There was alot of issues, not jsut the confusion bombing back then. lol
I mean, we had no more than 12-14 and could take out very large grps w/ Confusion + Rendering. lol
And? Where is damage from Confusion? Also, all I seen there is unlimited procs of Chaos armor and it was fixed.
Also, killing lol-PUGs never was a problem, and retaliation is not a problem here too.
Dunno who is this, just found it occasionally.
Just check how long time he have buffs (and Retaliation sure) and how long he have conditions. Also check this at his targets, when he have target selected – most of time he didn’t.
I’ve found, what there is 100% uptime of main buffs and ~70% of Retaliation. And something like 15% of conditions uptime.
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Seafarer’s Rest (EU): Liicher (Engi), Lii Cher (Warrior), Swf (Elem),
Licharr (Guard), Lich Eir (Ranger), Alt Fh (Thief). Lii Cherr (Mesm), S Wf (Necr)
And in the whole game, how many times did you see that compared to group retaliation? 1000-1? I have never ever seen aoe confusion and I play since the beta weekends.
If you had played since beta, then you’d know that “confusion bombing” with mesmer glamours was a pretty common tactic back in 2012 and early 2013. Infact, it got so out of hand, that they had to nerf confusion in WvW, hence it is not used much these days.
Never seen it, but could be because I played on lowest of tier back in the beginning.
And in the whole game, how many times did you see that compared to group retaliation? 1000-1? I have never ever seen aoe confusion and I play since the beta weekends.
If you had played since beta, then you’d know that “confusion bombing” with mesmer glamours was a pretty common tactic back in 2012 and early 2013. Infact, it got so out of hand, that they had to nerf confusion in WvW, hence it is not used much these days.
Never seen it, but could be because I played on lowest of tier back in the beginning.
So now time came to remove Retaliation unlimited(!) procs.
Clearly, you misunderstand why Chaos Armor and Fire Aura were nerfed. Both of those effects grant boons when you are struck. The boon gain got the 1 second cooldown. The conditions already had it, but infinite procs could theoretically happen still.
They got that nerf because it was really often in zergs that people with Fire Aura would suddenly get 20-25 Might, or Choas Armor would grant ridiculous amounts of boons.
You’re an engineer and want to deal with Retaliation? Try Throw Mine and healing. Works wonders, especially the toolbelt skill.
So now time came to remove Retaliation unlimited(!) procs.
Clearly, you misunderstand why Chaos Armor and Fire Aura were nerfed. Both of those effects grant boons when you are struck. The boon gain got the 1 second cooldown. The conditions already had it, but infinite procs could theoretically happen still.
They got that nerf because it was really often in zergs that people with Fire Aura would suddenly get 20-25 Might, or Choas Armor would grant ridiculous amounts of boons.
You’re an engineer and want to deal with Retaliation? Try Throw Mine and healing. Works wonders, especially the toolbelt skill.
So you throw a mine and maybe strip retal from 5 players for about a second or two until it is reapplied and then what? If you are lucky you can get in 1 attack before retal is back up and then you can wait the 20ish seconds for Throw mine to come off cooldown and do it again. Of course since you only stripped it from 5 people and there are about 30+ other people standing on the same spot with retal even that won’t work so…. yeah… bad suggestion is bad.
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN
So…don’t attack the two dozen others that you didn’t strip retaliation from?
Sure, maybe you don’t strip retaliation. You did strip something. And you did it in a way that doesn’t auto-kill you because you’re trying to tag for loot via stupidity called “flamethrower.” Probably did just as much damage as well.
Retaliation is not up 24/7 like people insist except in the most organized of groups. Otherwise, there are always people without. Find them, target them, kill them. Don’t want to take the time to find those that don’t have Retaliation, but want to spam AoE anyway? Your fault.
Every profession has the options to deal with Retaliation, but it does require more than spamming 1. Retaliation is a mechanic designed to punish mindless spam. Don’t like it? Try changing your play. It’s really not scary at all when you know how to deal with it (hint: doesn’t require specific skills or traits).
Retaliation is not up 24/7 like people insist except in the most organized of groups.
We are talking exactly about that, and pretty strange there is a lot of advices, related to 1-5vs1-5 fights only.
How many times we need to repeat, what retaliation is never a deal in some PUG fights (because lol-noob-randoms have no idea how to even create this effect), but always a huge pain in organized fights?
Also, you have no idea how it’s going when 2 or 3 blobs are fighting - all you can press is #1, becuse all going with extreme lags. Also, you just have NO time and possibility to track buffs/debuffs at the EVERY enemy or ally. That’s why this is always going like "use #1 for damage, use another 2 or 3 buttons to keep buffs/heal on allies"
It’s like at real war: noone checking every house before airstrike - they just bombing that place, because they know enemy are there.
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Seafarer’s Rest (EU): Liicher (Engi), Lii Cher (Warrior), Swf (Elem),
Licharr (Guard), Lich Eir (Ranger), Alt Fh (Thief). Lii Cherr (Mesm), S Wf (Necr)
Retaliation is not up 24/7 like people insist except in the most organized of groups. Otherwise, there are always people without. Find them, target them, kill them. Don’t want to take the time to find those that don’t have Retaliation, but want to spam AoE anyway? Your fault.
Retaliation is not up 24/7 like people insist except in the most organized of groups. Otherwise, there are always people without. Find them, target them, kill them. Don’t want to take the time to find those that don’t have Retaliation, but want to spam AoE anyway? Your fault.
Things don’t really work that way in Tier 1.
Well, Dragonbrand has been in Tier 1 for a grand total of 1 week since launch. Forgive me if I don’t have tons of experience there. Tier 2, though, it does work.
Retaliation is not up 24/7 like people insist except in the most organized of groups. Otherwise, there are always people without. Find them, target them, kill them. Don’t want to take the time to find those that don’t have Retaliation, but want to spam AoE anyway? Your fault.
Things don’t really work that way in Tier 1.
Well, Dragonbrand has been in Tier 1 for a grand total of 1 week since launch. Forgive me if I don’t have tons of experience there. Tier 2, though, it does work.
It’s not like that in any organized fight. If you are talking about pug zergs than we are talking about 2 different things.
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN
Retaliation is not up 24/7 like people insist except in the most organized of groups. Otherwise, there are always people without. Find them, target them, kill them. Don’t want to take the time to find those that don’t have Retaliation, but want to spam AoE anyway? Your fault.
Things don’t really work that way in Tier 1.
As a player from JQ who started there and played there for over two years, I say your incorrect. I just recently transferred to YB with my guild (well about 3 months ago) and we are fighting DB and it is little to no different then when JQ was fighting BG or TC. And I am stating that from the position of a long time commander using an engineer.
