Guild Wars 2

These things need to get changed for a more balanced WvW. Do you agree or not?

I’ll explain, group or zerg retaliation get be held up permanently, either the boon sharing is too strong or retaliation is. It ticks way to much for you to aoe an attacking group. And single target does not stop anything in wvw.

Also it’s now entirly possible to have 90% of you entire zerg to be Wave of wrath spamming guardians(and some retaliation of course). Also does not seem to be what Anet had in mind when they made WvW.

Could you perhaps change the staff spam to a skill that actually takes some skill to land? Now this probably is not going to go well with the majority of the people that play Wvw. I just assume they are the ones that think this is ok in wvw.

getting rekt by guardians spamming 1?

solution – get more necros.

make the guardians chase you over your wellllllssss

retaliation does -50% dmg in wvw, wave of wrath has only 600 range, just saying

What does wave of wrath have to do with retaliation effecting AoEs? this effects almost every build out there in one form or another. As far as I am concerned, retal is not OP in the least, and if you die to it, then that is your fault.

AoE is already out of control as it is. It is nice to have a way to punish those for it.

I think he meant it as seperate issues, guard staff 1 is to easy to tag 5 players, and aoe group retal can be kept up permantely, seems to be his complaints.

X T D.6458:

I think he meant it as seperate issues, guard staff 1 is to easy to tag 5 players, and aoe group retal can be kept up permantely, seems to be his complaints.

And it seems to be true. When you meet a zerg take a look at your log. It’s wave of wrath times 100.
And dont come here and tell me that group retaliation is not a problem in wvw.

well considering guardians ranged options, scepter is not ideal for zerging, staff is optimal for support and even group damage, hitting 5 targets helps spread burning, and any traits related to inflicting burning, proc boons and enabling traits relating to them such as altruistic heal. Also Staff 5 is a great way to block a groups escape/charge. Empower is just so good traited with altruistic healing. Its probably at 5 targets because of its limited range for a ranged weapon, kind of a balance to it I guess. Group retal is a type of strategy man deal with it, find a strategy around it.

aspirine.6852:

X T D.6458:

I think he meant it as seperate issues, guard staff 1 is to easy to tag 5 players, and aoe group retal can be kept up permantely, seems to be his complaints.

And it seems to be true. When you meet a zerg take a look at your log. It’s wave of wrath times 100.
And dont come here and tell me that group retaliation is not a problem in wvw.

I will absolutely tell you I do not fell retaliation is a problem. As I see it, you should stop spamming auto attacks then complaining that it doesn’t favor you.

It is a particular problem for engineers too. FT AA, grenade AA, bomb AA, pistol AA, rifle AA, all are native AoE skills and force the profession to suppress their AA in large fights. Why is it only problematic when it is a guardian?

The funny part, is guardian is one of the largest culprits for giving retal and laying fields that offer retal if blasted. To complain about taking retal damage seems a bit hypocritical to me when it is discussed from a guardians perspective.

coglin.1867:

aspirine.6852:

X T D.6458:

I think he meant it as seperate issues, guard staff 1 is to easy to tag 5 players, and aoe group retal can be kept up permantely, seems to be his complaints.

And it seems to be true. When you meet a zerg take a look at your log. It’s wave of wrath times 100.
And dont come here and tell me that group retaliation is not a problem in wvw.

I will absolutely tell you I do not fel retaliation is a problem. As I see it, you should stop spamming auto attacks then complaining that it doesn’t favor you.

It is a particular problem for engineers too. FT AA, grenade AA, bomb AA, pistol AA, rifle AA, all are native AoE skills and force the profession to suppress their AA in large fights. Why is it only problematic when it is a guardian?

But that’s stupid. You have to stop attacking because you are killing yourself, what do you want me to do. Tell them to go away? What good are aoe skills if you cannot use them?

back off, use your heal skill, then back in the fight

aspirine.6852:

snip -

Backing off to wait out an enemy’s boons is a common tactic. You normally see it happen right after empowers, but it makes sense to wait out retaliation as well.

aspirine.6852:

But that’s stupid. You have to stop attacking because you are killing yourself, what do you want me to do. Tell them to go away? What good are aoe skills if you cannot use them?

Stupid? How so? It is a counter to mindless spamming of AoE AA by guardians in my opinion.

What do you want to see happen? You want a game mechanic changed in a manner that promotes AA spam for your personal convenience?

Join a party where you gain heal

Boonstrips exist for a reason

Guards, warriors, rangers, probably others (only 3 classes I have so I don’t know) can run retal as well. Guards and Wars will have more uptime thanks to spiked armor and, well, a billion ways to get it with Guard, but retal is all over the place. It’s a game mechanic like anything else; projectile deflection or boon corruption or conditions or hell, just raw burst damage. Learn how to counter it and deal with it.

Also, it has a 33% dmg reduction in WvW and PvP, not 50%.

aspirine.6852:

coglin.1867:

aspirine.6852:

X T D.6458:

I think he meant it as seperate issues, guard staff 1 is to easy to tag 5 players, and aoe group retal can be kept up permantely, seems to be his complaints.

And it seems to be true. When you meet a zerg take a look at your log. It’s wave of wrath times 100.
And dont come here and tell me that group retaliation is not a problem in wvw.

I will absolutely tell you I do not fel retaliation is a problem. As I see it, you should stop spamming auto attacks then complaining that it doesn’t favor you.

It is a particular problem for engineers too. FT AA, grenade AA, bomb AA, pistol AA, rifle AA, all are native AoE skills and force the profession to suppress their AA in large fights. Why is it only problematic when it is a guardian?

But that’s stupid. You have to stop attacking because you are killing yourself, what do you want me to do. Tell them to go away? What good are aoe skills if you cannot use them?

Ever heard of confusion? Either clear it or kill yourself by attacking. Works the same way except you don’t even need to hit the person for it to wreck you.

ah didnt it used to be 50%, also mesmers can get perma retaliation, and necros

Boon stripping is not spammable whereas group Retaliation is. Boons are spammed at a high rate in large groups, something that wells and null fields can’t match. And that is assuming the boon stripping attack lands and is not Evaded, Missed, or Blocked.

Necros tend to see less play time compared to other classes in WvW too.

I agree they need to be changed for wvw, but it won’t happen, as it’s been this way since the start, people have moaned about it, and still nothing has ever been done to fix an internal cooldown on to it.

The solution is to play one of the 4 meta classes, spam your staff 1 at the front of the zerg while rofl stomping those other players that thought playing something else might be more fun.( and tagging everything in sight).

In comparison with Engineers, Guardians do not have any problems with Retaliation.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Guards, warriors, rangers, probably others (only 3 classes I have so I don’t know) can run retal as well. Guards and Wars will have more uptime thanks to spiked armor and, well, a billion ways to get it with Guard, but retal is all over the place. It’s a game mechanic like anything else; projectile deflection or boon corruption or conditions or hell, just raw burst damage. Learn how to counter it and deal with it.

Also, it has a 33% dmg reduction in WvW and PvP, not 50%.

Are you seriously suggesting to run a condition build in a zerg fight as a way to deal with retal damage? You might as well be running around shooting people with the birthday blaster.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Guards, warriors, rangers, probably others (only 3 classes I have so I don’t know) can run retal as well. Guards and Wars will have more uptime thanks to spiked armor and, well, a billion ways to get it with Guard, but retal is all over the place. It’s a game mechanic like anything else; projectile deflection or boon corruption or conditions or hell, just raw burst damage. Learn how to counter it and deal with it.

Also, it has a 33% dmg reduction in WvW and PvP, not 50%.

Are you seriously suggesting to run a condition build in a zerg fight as a way to deal with retal damage? You might as well be running around shooting people with the birthday blaster.

No, I was referring to the person’s post about “not attacking so you don’t kill yourself.” Go back and read the context, please. Hell, it was in my post, you could have just quoted the whole block and the context would be right there in your face.

edit: just in case:

But that’s stupid. You have to stop attacking because you are killing yourself, what do you want me to do. Tell them to go away? What good are aoe skills if you cannot use them?

“But that’s stupid. You’ve got 5 stacks of confusion and they have 2000 condition dmg, you have to stop attacking because you are killing yourself, what do you want me to do? Tell them to go away? What good are my rapid fire axe, sword, and greatsword attacks if I cannot use them?”

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

“But that’s stupid. You’ve got 5 stacks of confusion and they have 2000 condition dmg, you have to stop attacking because you are killing yourself, what do you want me to do? Tell them to go away? What good are my rapid fire axe, sword, and greatsword attacks if I cannot use them?”

You can Condition remove Confusion. Also, you can see when you have Confusion on you.

“But wait! Retaliation is a Boon! You can remove it that way, right?” Good luck identifying who has Retaliation in a blob and who doesn’t in order to do just that.

This means you have to not attack while using weapons (or builds) that punish Retaliation, because you have to assume it’s always there against a blob. And that is stupid.

Even when you do strip retal from a chunk of the zerg it is reapplied a second later. What it needs is an internal cooldown so attacks like flamethrower auto can still be used.

coglin.1867:

aspirine.6852:

X T D.6458:

I think he meant it as seperate issues, guard staff 1 is to easy to tag 5 players, and aoe group retal can be kept up permantely, seems to be his complaints.

And it seems to be true. When you meet a zerg take a look at your log. It’s wave of wrath times 100.
And dont come here and tell me that group retaliation is not a problem in wvw.

I will absolutely tell you I do not fell retaliation is a problem. As I see it, you should stop spamming auto attacks then complaining that it doesn’t favor you.

It is a particular problem for engineers too. FT AA, grenade AA, bomb AA, pistol AA, rifle AA, all are native AoE skills and force the profession to suppress their AA in large fights. Why is it only problematic when it is a guardian?

The funny part, is guardian is one of the largest culprits for giving retal and laying fields that offer retal if blasted. To complain about taking retal damage seems a bit hypocritical to me when it is discussed from a guardians perspective.

I hope you are joking about “stop spamming auto attacks”. I’m guessing you’ve never been an Ele or power Necro dropping meteor showers/wells/ice bow on a much larger group you’ve pulled into a choke.

Honestly I think retaliation needs to be reworked completely. It was designed to help counter bursting and that obviously failed.

purely from the ‘we use meta profs only’ (GWEN) point of view, if both enemies know what they do you could say reataliation is not op.

However when accounting for the non gwen profs including them into the fight it’s massively op, they cannot overcome this superior passive strength. It’s like a buff that says guardian does 300*3 damage more every auto attack phase, cause i have retal and enemie doesn’t.

Skills like trick shot, grenades, who hit multiple times emphasize the problem. and there is no way you can steal it. Even if you luckely steal it once, they just reapply, my guard build has like 6 reataliation sources.

At the guy saying Retal = half as strong as in pve: wrong. Somehow they accidently buffed it and for last 2 months (after china New player experience patch) it’s back 300 damage per tick in wvw unless they fixed it again last week and I didn’t see it.

There is no way to apply confusion to multiply people. Basically, there is no AOE-confusion.
Also, you can cleanse confusion from yourself easily but you can’t cleanse retaliation from the entire enemy zerg.
Learn the game before post.

Here is my thread about reataliation: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Retaliation-once-per-sec/first

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

purely from the ‘we use meta profs only’ (GWEN) point of view, if both enemies know what they do you could say reataliation is not op.

However when accounting for the non gwen profs including them into the fight it’s massively op, they cannot overcome this superior passive strength. It’s like a buff that says guardian does 300*3 damage more every auto attack phase, cause i have retal and enemie doesn’t.

Skills like trick shot, grenades, who hit multiple times emphasize the problem. and there is no way you can steal it. Even if you luckely steal it once, they just reapply, my guard build has like 6 reataliation sources.

At the guy saying Retal = half as strong as in pve: wrong. Somehow they accidently buffed it and for last 2 months (after china New player experience patch) it’s back 300 damage per tick in wvw unless they fixed it again last week and I didn’t see it.

For a few weeks after the September patch it was at 100% strength, and then it was stealth fixed sometime in October. It’s back to a 33% damage reduction and has been for months.

gennyt.3428:

coglin.1867:

aspirine.6852:

X T D.6458:

I think he meant it as seperate issues, guard staff 1 is to easy to tag 5 players, and aoe group retal can be kept up permantely, seems to be his complaints.

And it seems to be true. When you meet a zerg take a look at your log. It’s wave of wrath times 100.
And dont come here and tell me that group retaliation is not a problem in wvw.

I will absolutely tell you I do not fell retaliation is a problem. As I see it, you should stop spamming auto attacks then complaining that it doesn’t favor you.

It is a particular problem for engineers too. FT AA, grenade AA, bomb AA, pistol AA, rifle AA, all are native AoE skills and force the profession to suppress their AA in large fights. Why is it only problematic when it is a guardian?

The funny part, is guardian is one of the largest culprits for giving retal and laying fields that offer retal if blasted. To complain about taking retal damage seems a bit hypocritical to me when it is discussed from a guardians perspective.

I hope you are joking about “stop spamming auto attacks”. I’m guessing you’ve never been an Ele or power Necro dropping meteor showers/wells/ice bow on a much larger group you’ve pulled into a choke.

Why would I be joking? Why should someone be capable of painting the ground with red circles at range as a counter to strong melee trians, but complain when they counter mindless groud painting? (And yes, I very often play a power Necro and occasionally ele) but I think fair is fair in this case.

SilverWF.4789:

There is no way to apply confusion to multiply people. Basically, there is no AOE-confusion.
Also, you can cleanse confusion from yourself easily but you can’t cleanse retaliation from the entire enemy zerg.
Learn the game before post.

Here is my thread about reataliation: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Retaliation-once-per-sec/first

Change confusion to once per sec and we have a deal. Also, yes, AoE confusion is possible using shatters. I don’t know where you get your information from, especially since you have a Mesmer and don’t know this. Please stop insulting people. You already had one post deleted.

SilverWF.4789:

There is no way to apply confusion to multiply people. Basically, there is no AOE-confusion.

That is completely false. There are in fact multiple AoE confusion skills.

This in all honesty just feels like a l2p issue. Staff cleave is just consistent low damage in a forward cone, this softens up pushes and just ensures the players engaging feel some initial pressure before making contact.

You can put out your own range pressure, from a safe range, as the staff only has 1200 range, where as most natural casters have 900-1200 range. Engaging or pushing to them I’d hope your group could out DPS just passive staff cleaves regardless of class.

Retaliation is just a counter to AoE pressure/cleaving skills, the more players you hit sporting the boon the more damage you’re subjected to. So not attacking is a way to deal with it, if you still feel need to do damage hit along the outer edges of the group, you’re less likely to be hitting too many things with retaliation, thus lowering the damage you receive back. But if you’re just gonna switch your brain off, and dump big aoe in the center of a massive group to see big numbers fly, you going down/dying is more than likely gonna happen, and in reality your fault for not thinking.

Oh yeah and dodge rolls, your heal, other skills are effective at mitigating, blocking, or assisting you through the staff cleave/retal

Reaper.1748:

This in all honesty just feels like a l2p issue. Staff cleave is just consistent low damage in a forward cone, this softens up pushes and just ensures the players engaging feel some initial pressure before making contact.

You can put out your own range pressure, from a safe range, as the staff only has 1200 range, where as most natural casters have 900-1200 range. Engaging or pushing to them I’d hope your group could out DPS just passive staff cleaves regardless of class.

Retaliation is just a counter to AoE pressure/cleaving skills, the more players you hit sporting the boon the more damage you’re subjected to. So not attacking is a way to deal with it, if you still feel need to do damage hit along the outer edges of the group, you’re less likely to be hitting too many things with retaliation, thus lowering the damage you receive back. But if you’re just gonna switch your brain off, and dump big aoe in the center of a massive group to see big numbers fly, you going down/dying is more than likely gonna happen, and in reality your fault for not thinking.

Oh yeah and dodge rolls, your heal, other skills are effective at mitigating, blocking, or assisting you through the staff cleave/retal

I think you’re confusing staff with scepter there, as scepter is the one with 1200 range. Staff has 600 range. I think you did mean to put that there since you made the comparison to “natural casters,” though. Sorry if I’m being pedantic.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Reaper.1748:

This in all honesty just feels like a l2p issue. Staff cleave is just consistent low damage in a forward cone, this softens up pushes and just ensures the players engaging feel some initial pressure before making contact.

You can put out your own range pressure, from a safe range, as the staff only has 1200 range, where as most natural casters have 900-1200 range. Engaging or pushing to them I’d hope your group could out DPS just passive staff cleaves regardless of class.

Retaliation is just a counter to AoE pressure/cleaving skills, the more players you hit sporting the boon the more damage you’re subjected to. So not attacking is a way to deal with it, if you still feel need to do damage hit along the outer edges of the group, you’re less likely to be hitting too many things with retaliation, thus lowering the damage you receive back. But if you’re just gonna switch your brain off, and dump big aoe in the center of a massive group to see big numbers fly, you going down/dying is more than likely gonna happen, and in reality your fault for not thinking.

Oh yeah and dodge rolls, your heal, other skills are effective at mitigating, blocking, or assisting you through the staff cleave/retal

I think you’re confusing staff with scepter there, as scepter is the one with 1200 range. Staff has 600 range. I think you did mean to put that there since you made the comparison to “natural casters,” though. Sorry if I’m being pedantic.

Scepter may say 1200 range but the orb moves so slow that unless your target is not paying attention & standing still they can easily avoid half of them by simply moving to the side.

Allot of guardians I know would actually be alright with a slight damage per second nerf on scepter no 1 if it were made into a channeled beam similar to the downed 1 skill or the mesmer scepter no 3 skill.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Reaper.1748:

This in all honesty just feels like a l2p issue. Staff cleave is just consistent low damage in a forward cone, this softens up pushes and just ensures the players engaging feel some initial pressure before making contact.

You can put out your own range pressure, from a safe range, as the staff only has 1200 range, where as most natural casters have 900-1200 range. Engaging or pushing to them I’d hope your group could out DPS just passive staff cleaves regardless of class.

Retaliation is just a counter to AoE pressure/cleaving skills, the more players you hit sporting the boon the more damage you’re subjected to. So not attacking is a way to deal with it, if you still feel need to do damage hit along the outer edges of the group, you’re less likely to be hitting too many things with retaliation, thus lowering the damage you receive back. But if you’re just gonna switch your brain off, and dump big aoe in the center of a massive group to see big numbers fly, you going down/dying is more than likely gonna happen, and in reality your fault for not thinking.

Oh yeah and dodge rolls, your heal, other skills are effective at mitigating, blocking, or assisting you through the staff cleave/retal

I think you’re confusing staff with scepter there, as scepter is the one with 1200 range. Staff has 600 range. I think you did mean to put that there since you made the comparison to “natural casters,” though. Sorry if I’m being pedantic.

Scepter may say 1200 range but the orb moves so slow that unless your target is not paying attention & standing still they can easily avoid half of them by simply moving to the side.

Allot of guardians I know would actually be alright with a slight damage per second nerf on scepter no 1 if it were made into a channeled beam similar to the downed 1 skill or the mesmer scepter no 3 skill.

It wasn’t confusion it was a typo, could’ve sworn I put 600 in the slot for staff. My Bad.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Reaper.1748:

This in all honesty just feels like a l2p issue. Staff cleave is just consistent low damage in a forward cone, this softens up pushes and just ensures the players engaging feel some initial pressure before making contact.

You can put out your own range pressure, from a safe range, as the staff only has 1200 range, where as most natural casters have 900-1200 range. Engaging or pushing to them I’d hope your group could out DPS just passive staff cleaves regardless of class.

Retaliation is just a counter to AoE pressure/cleaving skills, the more players you hit sporting the boon the more damage you’re subjected to. So not attacking is a way to deal with it, if you still feel need to do damage hit along the outer edges of the group, you’re less likely to be hitting too many things with retaliation, thus lowering the damage you receive back. But if you’re just gonna switch your brain off, and dump big aoe in the center of a massive group to see big numbers fly, you going down/dying is more than likely gonna happen, and in reality your fault for not thinking.

Oh yeah and dodge rolls, your heal, other skills are effective at mitigating, blocking, or assisting you through the staff cleave/retal

I think you’re confusing staff with scepter there, as scepter is the one with 1200 range. Staff has 600 range. I think you did mean to put that there since you made the comparison to “natural casters,” though. Sorry if I’m being pedantic.

Scepter may say 1200 range but the orb moves so slow that unless your target is not paying attention & standing still they can easily avoid half of them by simply moving to the side.

Allot of guardians I know would actually be alright with a slight damage per second nerf on scepter no 1 if it were made into a channeled beam similar to the downed 1 skill or the mesmer scepter no 3 skill.

That… wasn’t actually the point, it’s scepter AA that has 1200 range, and staff AA that has 600. Scepter AA casts are slow, yes, but you can use that to your advantage with things like sigil of incapacitation to keep them from getting away. I look at my scepter setup as a way to catch up to them with my melee weapon (usually a GS when roaming) with both incapacitation and chill on hit. More difficult to clear both conditions. Can’t forget the immobilize either — very valuable.

If it was a beam, we’d be Mesmers. There’s a solid reason why scepter AA casts are slow. They’re rapid fire, and eventually unavoidable at 1200 range. Aside from rangers, a lot of people will have difficulty avoiding every single cast.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Reaper.1748:

This in all honesty just feels like a l2p issue. Staff cleave is just consistent low damage in a forward cone, this softens up pushes and just ensures the players engaging feel some initial pressure before making contact.

You can put out your own range pressure, from a safe range, as the staff only has 1200 range, where as most natural casters have 900-1200 range. Engaging or pushing to them I’d hope your group could out DPS just passive staff cleaves regardless of class.

Retaliation is just a counter to AoE pressure/cleaving skills, the more players you hit sporting the boon the more damage you’re subjected to. So not attacking is a way to deal with it, if you still feel need to do damage hit along the outer edges of the group, you’re less likely to be hitting too many things with retaliation, thus lowering the damage you receive back. But if you’re just gonna switch your brain off, and dump big aoe in the center of a massive group to see big numbers fly, you going down/dying is more than likely gonna happen, and in reality your fault for not thinking.

Oh yeah and dodge rolls, your heal, other skills are effective at mitigating, blocking, or assisting you through the staff cleave/retal

I think you’re confusing staff with scepter there, as scepter is the one with 1200 range. Staff has 600 range. I think you did mean to put that there since you made the comparison to “natural casters,” though. Sorry if I’m being pedantic.

Scepter may say 1200 range but the orb moves so slow that unless your target is not paying attention & standing still they can easily avoid half of them by simply moving to the side.

Allot of guardians I know would actually be alright with a slight damage per second nerf on scepter no 1 if it were made into a channeled beam similar to the downed 1 skill or the mesmer scepter no 3 skill.

That… wasn’t actually the point, it’s scepter AA that has 1200 range, and staff AA that has 600. Scepter AA casts are slow, yes, but you can use that to your advantage with things like sigil of incapacitation to keep them from getting away. I look at my scepter setup as a way to catch up to them with my melee weapon (usually a GS when roaming) with both incapacitation and chill on hit. More difficult to clear both conditions. Can’t forget the immobilize either — very valuable.

If it was a beam, we’d be Mesmers. There’s a solid reason why scepter AA casts are slow. They’re rapid fire, and eventually unavoidable at 1200 range. Aside from rangers, a lot of people will have difficulty avoiding every single cast.

True its hard to avoid every single scepter AA attack even at 1200 yards. However when you look at how many of them actually land it’s usually only around half.

As for it being a beam, I actually think it would be quite nice, Though most guardians I know would settle for orbs having their speed increased by a good margin (even if that required a slight damage nerf, say around 10%)

When 3-way map queues collide and everyone is running around with low health and no healing skills or health regens are responding, guess which skill is the only one working for staff guardians…1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1… I love it.

Outside of that context it mostly just tags everything while you wait for a skill or weapon swap to finish cooldown.

Retaliation, like most boons, can be brought to hyper level by TS groups. It’s gonna happen. Retaliation is for defense to make people think twice when hitting you. In large groups it, um, deters other large groups. Looks like it’s working. Stacking Might to 25 stacks can seem OP too the way some groups use it, but it’s mostly about how it’s used and requires a little organization for it to be effective and efficient.

Also try coordinating more Null Fields and other mass boon strips in careful conjunction with engagements.

Yes, coordinated Null Fields and Necromancer Wells might remove Retaliation. Briefly. Good thing an uncoordinated blob of Guardians can just spam “Stand Your Ground!” while auto-attacking with Wave of Wrath and be just fine 99.9% of the time.

I’m sure you’ll have some impressive justifications for how Retaliation also makes it beneficial for zergs to just mindlessly attack through Feedback and other projectile reflection fields since it usually downs the player who cast it; instead of, you know, the players mindlessly attacking through the reflect field.

Nokaru.7831:

Yes, coordinated Null Fields and Necromancer Wells might remove Retaliation. Briefly. Good thing an uncoordinated blob of Guardians can just spam “Stand Your Ground!” while auto-attacking with Wave of Wrath and be just fine 99.9% of the time.

I’m sure you’ll have some impressive justifications for how Retaliation also makes it beneficial for zergs to just mindlessly attack through Feedback and other projectile reflection fields since it usually downs the player who cast it; instead of, you know, the players mindlessly attacking through the reflect field.

Most of this is extreme hyperbole however
That ^ last part is one thing I think most people can agree on.

Retaliation should not proc off of reflected attacks because if your stupid enough to sit there and attack a reflect then it should hurt you more then the party casting reflection.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

SilverWF.4789:

There is no way to apply confusion to multiply people. Basically, there is no AOE-confusion.
Also, you can cleanse confusion from yourself easily but you can’t cleanse retaliation from the entire enemy zerg.
Learn the game before post.

Here is my thread about reataliation: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Retaliation-once-per-sec/first

Change confusion to once per sec and we have a deal. Also, yes, AoE confusion is possible using shatters. I don’t know where you get your information from, especially since you have a Mesmer and don’t know this. Please stop insulting people. You already had one post deleted.

“Change confusion to once per sec and we have a deal. "
What? Did you understand what you wrote? Once per second from… what?

Yeah, shatter, but… but no any illusions will live long enough in zerg. In good zerg sure, not just “hello we are rangers-randoms!”

SilverWF.4789:

There is no way to apply confusion to multiply people. Basically, there is no AOE-confusion.
Also, you can cleanse confusion from yourself easily but you can’t cleanse retaliation from the entire enemy zerg.
Learn the game before post.

Here is my thread about reataliation: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Retaliation-once-per-sec/first

I missed that post and you did suggest some pretty good things in that one. Time to bump it back up.

SilverWF.4789:

There is no way to apply confusion to multiply people. Basically, there is no AOE-confusion.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Confusing_Enchantments

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dazzling_Glamours
combined with
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blinding_Befuddlement

Welcome to 2012

SilverWF.4789:

Learn the game before post.

Ragnar.4257:

SilverWF.4789:

There is no way to apply confusion to multiply people. Basically, there is no AOE-confusion.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Confusing_Enchantments

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dazzling_Glamours
combined with
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blinding_Befuddlement

Welcome to 2012

SilverWF.4789:

Learn the game before post.

And in the whole game, how many times did you see that compared to group retaliation? 1000-1? I have never ever seen aoe confusion and I play since the beta weekends.

Then you have not bween paying attentuon since beta. Engineers have a melee AoE concussion bomb that AoEs confusion as well as a ranged AoE confusion. Sonic shriek is a cone AoE confusiin.

aspirine.6852:

Ragnar.4257:

SilverWF.4789:

There is no way to apply confusion to multiply people. Basically, there is no AOE-confusion.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Confusing_Enchantments

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dazzling_Glamours
combined with
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blinding_Befuddlement

Welcome to 2012

SilverWF.4789:

Learn the game before post.

And in the whole game, how many times did you see that compared to group retaliation? 1000-1? I have never ever seen aoe confusion and I play since the beta weekends.

If you had played since beta, then you’d know that “confusion bombing” with mesmer glamours was a pretty common tactic back in 2012 and early 2013. Infact, it got so out of hand, that they had to nerf confusion in WvW, hence it is not used much these days.

Ragnar.4257:

aspirine.6852:

Ragnar.4257:

SilverWF.4789:

There is no way to apply confusion to multiply people. Basically, there is no AOE-confusion.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Confusing_Enchantments

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dazzling_Glamours
combined with
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blinding_Befuddlement

Welcome to 2012

SilverWF.4789:

Learn the game before post.

And in the whole game, how many times did you see that compared to group retaliation? 1000-1? I have never ever seen aoe confusion and I play since the beta weekends.

If you had played since beta, then you’d know that “confusion bombing” with mesmer glamours was a pretty common tactic back in 2012 and early 2013. Infact, it got so out of hand, that they had to nerf confusion in WvW, hence it is not used much these days.

Never seen it, but could be because I played on lowest of tier back in the beginning.

SilverWF.4789:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

SilverWF.4789:

There is no way to apply confusion to multiply people. Basically, there is no AOE-confusion.
Also, you can cleanse confusion from yourself easily but you can’t cleanse retaliation from the entire enemy zerg.
Learn the game before post.

Here is my thread about reataliation: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Retaliation-once-per-sec/first

Change confusion to once per sec and we have a deal. Also, yes, AoE confusion is possible using shatters. I don’t know where you get your information from, especially since you have a Mesmer and don’t know this. Please stop insulting people. You already had one post deleted.

“Change confusion to once per sec and we have a deal. "
What? Did you understand what you wrote? Once per second from… what?

Yeah, shatter, but… but no any illusions will live long enough in zerg. In good zerg sure, not just “hello we are rangers-randoms!”

Quite simple. In your post you posit to limit the damage from attacking multiple times per second to triggering retal once per second, regardless of the number of attacks or targets you’re hitting.

Since I can attack many many times per second using my various classes, I would also like to limit the number of times confusion can damage me per second to 1. Make that change and I’ll give you your damage from retal once per sec.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

SilverWF.4789:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

SilverWF.4789:

There is no way to apply confusion to multiply people. Basically, there is no AOE-confusion.
Also, you can cleanse confusion from yourself easily but you can’t cleanse retaliation from the entire enemy zerg.
Learn the game before post.

Here is my thread about reataliation: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Retaliation-once-per-sec/first

Change confusion to once per sec and we have a deal. Also, yes, AoE confusion is possible using shatters. I don’t know where you get your information from, especially since you have a Mesmer and don’t know this. Please stop insulting people. You already had one post deleted.

“Change confusion to once per sec and we have a deal. "
What? Did you understand what you wrote? Once per second from… what?

Yeah, shatter, but… but no any illusions will live long enough in zerg. In good zerg sure, not just “hello we are rangers-randoms!”

Quite simple. In your post you posit to limit the damage from attacking multiple times per second to triggering retal once per second, regardless of the number of attacks or targets you’re hitting.

Since I can attack many many times per second using my various classes, I would also like to limit the number of times confusion can damage me per second to 1. Make that change and I’ll give you your damage from retal once per sec.

Once again, confusion can be cleansed. In an organized zerg retal is up 100% of the time because you can’t strip it from everyone and it is so easy to reapply.