Guild Wars 2

First off, I am a supporter of waypoints in WvW. That said, I don’t think they should be used the way they currently can be; as of now, when contested, a waypoint will open up (briefly) between the expiry of one “contest” and start of a new one. Is this working as intended?

In my opinion, allowing this functionality to persist simply encourages WvW’ers to roam the map in huge zergs, knowing that they can waypoint to their keep and defend (within 3 mins) even while contested. I realize that the attacking side can (and should) plan for a quick take, and have the keep taken in less than 3 minutes, but a lot of things have to go right in order for this to happen.

I think that by making waypoints remain contested for the entirety of a keep siege would reduce the amount of “blobbing” we see on the map since forces would have to be spread more evenly across a map in order to defend what they have already taken (also makes it progressively harder to hold things as you acquire more and more real estate on a map). This would hopefully encourage more small group play and reduce server skill lag since battles (on average) should be smaller and less taxing on the servers.

Thoughts?

Make maps much bigger, spread out objectives to a much greater degree and remove WPs.

There, zerg problem solved.

I agree with you, however, conversely you should not be able to contest a keep/castle by simply “tapping”. Tapping mechanic needs to be removed from the game or drastically altered.

Fully upgraded gate guards should have stealth detection and be fully capable to wipe a small group of players (up to 5), The said keep/castle should become contested if there is at least 2% or 3% damage done to the said gate/wall, not just single hit, that is ridiculous.

Also, once you break the outer and inner gates and are fighting inside, many times the keep/castle becomes completely uncontested again so that you have to find a gate to keep tapping mid combat, while the keep/castle is obviously contested because there is a big battle going on inside. This needs to go.

deathTouch.9706:

Make maps much bigger, spread out objectives to a much greater degree and remove WPs.

There, zerg problem solved.

Lol let’s not get ahead of ourselves, this is Anet we’re talking about.

Cool.

The maps are pretty small. Waypoints should not be a huge deal, right? Just run an extra 10 seconds.

If you’re going to change the way waypoints work then you’re going to have to do something about golems (alphas and omegas) and ram mastery.

Golems and traited superior rams currently burn gates down (reinforced or not) faster than a defensive force can get there.

DevonCarver.5370:

Waypoints are being evaluated currently. There will be changes to that aspect of WvW that we look at in the upcoming tests. Based on how that works out, we would then move any of those changes into the live game once they had been tested. We aren’t discussing the specifics just yet, until the test is live.

Devon, a while back (atleast 4 months) a developer said the waypoint becoming uncontested for 1-2 seconds as the event refreshes was a bug and was to be fixed shortly, but this didn’t occur. Is this behavior intentional?

Here is a troll change for waypoint :

Make waypoint available only when the keep is contested. If the keep is not contested then the waypoint is not available

Deli.1302:

If you’re going to change the way waypoints work then you’re going to have to do something about golems (alphas and omegas) and ram mastery.

Golems and traited superior rams currently burn gates down (reinforced or not) faster than a defensive force can get there.

I concur.

This emphasises the problem with power creep on the siege weaponry due to WXP abilities. Defensive stuff such as door and wall hitpoints/toughness haven’t kept pace.

Svarty.8019:

Deli.1302:

If you’re going to change the way waypoints work then you’re going to have to do something about golems (alphas and omegas) and ram mastery.

Golems and traited superior rams currently burn gates down (reinforced or not) faster than a defensive force can get there.

I concur.

This emphasises the problem with power creep on the siege weaponry due to WXP abilities. Defensive stuff such as door and wall hitpoints/toughness haven’t kept pace.

Siege weapon mastery is a 2-edged sword. With ram mastery, I’ll quite happily sit under the fire of 1-2 superior ACs manned by non-masters, but I’ll need heals if there are masters on them. Same thing with traits like supply stripping on trebs – toss a couple of cows on the door before the attackers can get their rams down/built and you are in a strong position.

I take your point though that in an undefended situation, the masteries make it too easy to melt a door and not give defenders a chance to respond. Maybe a new mastery that makes reinforced doors/walls, guards, and fortification x% stronger (determined at the time the upgrade is ordered – and award wxp to the person ordering it )?

aarias.4016:

First off, I am a supporter of waypoints in WvW. That said, I don’t think they should be used the way they currently can be; as of now, when contested, a waypoint will open up (briefly) between the expiry of one “contest” and start of a new one. Is this working as intended?

In my opinion, allowing this functionality to persist simply encourages WvW’ers to roam the map in huge zergs, knowing that they can waypoint to their keep and defend (within 3 mins) even while contested. I realize that the attacking side can (and should) plan for a quick take, and have the keep taken in less than 3 minutes, but a lot of things have to go right in order for this to happen.

I think that by making waypoints remain contested for the entirety of a keep siege would reduce the amount of “blobbing” we see on the map since forces would have to be spread more evenly across a map in order to defend what they have already taken (also makes it progressively harder to hold things as you acquire more and more real estate on a map). This would hopefully encourage more small group play and reduce server skill lag since battles (on average) should be smaller and less taxing on the servers.

Thoughts?

The problem I see with this is if they don’t uncontest a thief (or small group including a thief/mes) could just hang out at a keep and spam attacking it and spam invisibility so they are really hard to find. That would make the waypoints completely worthless.

Tietus.8013:

Svarty.8019:

Deli.1302:

If you’re going to change the way waypoints work then you’re going to have to do something about golems (alphas and omegas) and ram mastery.

Golems and traited superior rams currently burn gates down (reinforced or not) faster than a defensive force can get there.

I concur.

This emphasises the problem with power creep on the siege weaponry due to WXP abilities. Defensive stuff such as door and wall hitpoints/toughness haven’t kept pace.

Siege weapon mastery is a 2-edged sword. With ram mastery, I’ll quite happily sit under the fire of 1-2 superior ACs manned by non-masters, but I’ll need heals if there are masters on them. Same thing with traits like supply stripping on trebs – toss a couple of cows on the door before the attackers can get their rams down/built and you are in a strong position.

I take your point though that in an undefended situation, the masteries make it too easy to melt a door and not give defenders a chance to respond. Maybe a new mastery that makes reinforced doors/walls, guards, and fortification x% stronger (determined at the time the upgrade is ordered – and award wxp to the person ordering it )?

Or just give us an option to make t3 gates. Nobody ever goes after walls once they are fortified, the doors are the obvious weak spot, and the fact that a reinforced gate can melt in less than a minute with superior rams and a blob backing it, is IMO a waste of money on that upgrade. Maybe add some new structural upgrades or something to counter balance the siege masteries we are seeing.

WP’s just need to be removed completely from keeps. Even when they aren’t being used while the keep is being sieged, WPs still give the side that has them an absurd advantage. Death means nothing when you have a WP in a nearby keep or SMC that more than halves the distance you need to cover to return to battle. It often feels like my foes are zombies because they return from death so ridiculously fast.

Waypoints need a change. When things get flipped the game play is more fast paced and less stale.

Would moving the waypoints away from the inner sanctum and onto the outer sides be a good or a bad change?

For example, instead of having the bay waypoint being right next to the lords room, why not move it next to the outer southern supply depot?

This would make it take longer to get instant reinforcements, but it would also give the people a bit longer than a split second to load in.

I dont want a change to WP. With current siege mastery, WP is the only thing that can save your keep. Even 5 man team with 2 sup rams can melt gate in 1 minute.

DevonCarver.5370:

Waypoints are being evaluated currently. There will be changes to that aspect of WvW that we look at in the upcoming tests. Based on how that works out, we would then move any of those changes into the live game once they had been tested. We aren’t discussing the specifics just yet, until the test is live.

Will these tests be things we might see in the mentioned WvW overflow map first? Or are these things that would have to be introduced into the main borderlands/EB to be really tested?

It takes a lot of supply and a lot of time to make a waypoint, maybe you guys should consider controlling resources. As for in-keep sieges, develop the co-ordination to group up and slaughter them when they waypoint in, problem solved. I love those 20 minute lords room fights where the defending team is constantly porting and there’s a triad of map zergs inside. (I play guardian.)

deathTouch.9706:

Make maps much bigger, spread out objectives to a much greater degree and remove WPs.

There, zerg problem solved.

You know, some people like the zerg. Some people like the big battles. If we wanted to run in small groups all the time, or have small battles, we would sPvP. The huge fights in WvW are exciting.

Why is everyone trying to kill the zerg?

Typhus.3502:

It takes a lot of supply and a lot of time to make a waypoint, maybe you guys should consider controlling resources. As for in-keep sieges, develop the co-ordination to group up and slaughter them when they waypoint in, problem solved. I love those 20 minute lords room fights where the defending team is constantly porting and there’s a triad of map zergs inside. (I play guardian.)

A lot of time passes between NA prime, a lot of servers are simply not active in that window of time to stop waypoints from being built.

Well at least waypoints allows for some pretty epic defensive battles to occur and are one of the few advantages a defending force will enjoy.

I agree that their current use is slightly exploitative but overall it’s good for the game. Without waypoints even Keeps would just melt away under the awesome power of the zerg. Defenders only real option to defeating a zerg would be having a bigger one, and that’s not always a real option.

I’d support changes to waypoints, but not before some other, more fundamental changes are made.

aarias.4016:

when contested, a waypoint will open up (briefly) between the expiry of one “contest” and start of a new one. Is this working as intended?

In my opinion it somewhat is. Here’s the theory. The current event for defending keeps is something along the lines of “repel the enemy invaders.” Question is, how has you “succeeding” at the event made any difference if the timer simply starts again? Right now the difference you make is that you have held off the attackers until the main force or reinforcements arrives.

That’s not to say there aren’t problems. I think some buildings should have a longer timer (e.g. garrison and SM). The game should also be transparent to the invaders about what the timer is, give them the timer in their event information as well (“Reinforcements arrive in: xx:xx” or something). The waypoint should also open for longer. I am not sure what it is at the moment, but the spam clicking we have to do is a bit silly.

I like the concept of waves of reinforcements, but it does need work.

no waypoints doesn’t dicourage zerging. it will further the karma train mentality even more. Let them take it, we can retake it in 5 minutes!
As long as defensive actions aren’t equally or better honored, than offensive play, there won’t be any incentive to even stand in a tower or a keep, even less to build some defensive weaponery or upgrade the structure.

Also the way, wp’s work at the moment, give outnumbered servers a small chance to defend something.

Yeah the way they work atm is strange. Also there are too much. WPs in keep could get removed. Would make EB more interesting(but probably SM too hard to cap if people need to move from spawn all the time… but then again towers too hard easy to defend if WP in keep). In BL alle 3 keeps are fine cause there is much more walking because of the way the map is designed(or carefully “falling down” which is slower just than running somewhere).

Being uncontested for 1-2 seconds while the objective is contested really seems buggy. Should be removed.

Also it should be fixed how “contested” is generated. There should be siege equipment that blocks the gates. And it should be needed to block all gates. Killing a guard or attacking gate with melee should not contest. Attacking 1 door of a keep should not contest. Attacking ALL doors should contest. If a door is down place some sort of barricade there(possible to build with your own team blueprints and supplies – enemy needs to take it down… less HP than a gate but still should take some time without siege to destroy it – your own team should be able to pass it at some colored gate). Gate counts still as contested then. If gate is destroyed and you won’t place it it will be “open” – and enemy can port(game can’t detect if you are somehow else are guarding it, and killing some guards by 1 solo guy won’t count if they came with a zerg so WP open).

If only 1 door attacked others are open to walk in – so you also could use WP – but there could be a hard capped timer on how often you could go there depending on how far the nearest to your WP gate is which is still available. If they attack at your EB corner your keep near the 2 gates next to your WP it would take longer to walk to the other gates south(red keep example) still uncontested. But you still could walk. So you could as well use the WP. But maybe only once every few minutes(calculated per person and it should be a longer time… not starting to count with death for example 10 minutes… if it were only 2-3 you could just respawn too fast after a death in a prolonged zerg fight in lord room – then it would have to start counting after death which is useless… you could just run to some other gate during these 2-3 minutes then).

warriorjrd.8695:

Or just give us an option to make t3 gates. Nobody ever goes after walls once they are fortified, the doors are the obvious weak spot, and the fact that a reinforced gate can melt in less than a minute with superior rams and a blob backing it, is IMO a waste of money on that upgrade. Maybe add some new structural upgrades or something to counter balance the siege masteries we are seeing.

Yeah. I don’t even know why people at my server always buy “fortify” first when we don’t even have cannons. Only to have the keep constantly out of supplies because that upgrade takes ages using all supplies coming to keep… only to later lose to th enemy zerg(cause we don’t even have people to defend atm – Underworld, lol). Of course zerg most of the time is at gate. Sometimes they are at walls… but if fortified they just use a few more superiour catapults.

Maybe also make some different requirements so noobs can’t spam wrong upgrades too fast. Like T2 needs to T1 finished. T3 needs 3 T2 finished. Not Wall, Gate, Wall again – oh crap, captured, no supply to build siege, no cannons no other stuff lol. I did it at towers when I upgraded one myself and just bought merchant cause it was cheap as 2nd or 3rd to also increase the supply cap a bit(helps to store a bit more before going for a more expensive upgrade and then you need less additional dolyaks… more safe especially if enemy often takes your camps…. oh lol and people might like to defend there if they can sell their stuff fast at the merchant).

On lower tier servers, waypoints are a necessary evil, like when there are a whopping 15 people in your BL and you need to defend a keep from a zerg of 30. Will the 15 people get through the gate into inner to get on siege (or build it)? Probably not, maybe 5 will get through. Otherwise, WvW would be dependent more on who has the better coverage instead of being who has the smarter players.

Someone said Waypoints give an advantage……OFC they do! you spend all that time getting that sucker up for a reason,

I am of the opinion that people attacking other peoples maps should in no way be given any advantage whatsoever it’s not their map why should they. (Get rid of siegerazor except homemap)

Waypoints becoming contested should be removed.(open until it flips; if it flips)

the ability for an opposing server to make a waypoint on an enemies map should be removed. (it’s pretty much a troll tactic now)

WP needs to remain contested for 10 seconds after the “defend” event ends. That would bring back the intended functionality.

The WP becoming contested is a way to allow an attacker to actually attack a keep. If it stays open then the defender can out-spawn the attacking force by respawning at the keep. It becomes a never-ending uphill battle to capture the keep then. This is why they have it contest at all. The little window where people warp in is a bug in that regard. It should be equally challenging to defend a keep as it is to attack it. As it sits now I rarely bother attacking a waypointed keep because the enemy servers are super zergy and can repel my attack once the WP glitches.

Fixing the waypoint makes attacking a BL with 3 WP’d keeps feasible rather than super difficult.

Please make sure that contesting takes a decent sized force before it can become contested.

Kind of stupid one person can fart on a gate and contest the waypoint.

DevonCarver.5370:

Waypoints are being evaluated currently. There will be changes to that aspect of WvW that we look at in the upcoming tests. Based on how that works out, we would then move any of those changes into the live game once they had been tested. We aren’t discussing the specifics just yet, until the test is live.

This won’t happen until after the Season, right? I mean, there isn’t supposed to be any changes to WvW while the season is going on to make sure everything stays fair…..coughnewhealskillcough coughPvEelementsinWvWcough

aarias.4016:

First off, I am a supporter of waypoints in WvW. That said, I don’t think they should be used the way they currently can be; as of now, when contested, a waypoint will open up (briefly) between the expiry of one “contest” and start of a new one. Is this working as intended?

In my opinion, allowing this functionality to persist simply encourages WvW’ers to roam the map in huge zergs, knowing that they can waypoint to their keep and defend (within 3 mins) even while contested. I realize that the attacking side can (and should) plan for a quick take, and have the keep taken in less than 3 minutes, but a lot of things have to go right in order for this to happen.

I think that by making waypoints remain contested for the entirety of a keep siege would reduce the amount of “blobbing” we see on the map since forces would have to be spread more evenly across a map in order to defend what they have already taken (also makes it progressively harder to hold things as you acquire more and more real estate on a map). This would hopefully encourage more small group play and reduce server skill lag since battles (on average) should be smaller and less taxing on the servers.

Thoughts?

You are wrong. It will not impact zergs at all. If anything, it will encourage MORE zerging. Why? It is safer in a zerg. Why would I want to roam if that means when I die, I have to run back further than before?

If a zerg dies, everyone just regroups anyway. Again, no impact on the zerg.

Also, you think this will help with defense. All it will do is make this even more of an offense based game. Let’s face it. Defense is boring. Why would I sentry with a few others when I’ll be facing a zerg with no hope of additional defenders coming once the battle begins? Again, this will encourage people to zerg more.

While I understand the idea, it won’t work as you intend.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Please make sure that contesting takes a decent sized force before it can become contested.

Kind of stupid one person can fart on a gate and contest the waypoint.

Agreed ^^

Contest requirements should be like this

Siege damage hits the tower or keep(door, wall, supply, etc)
Player damage hits a gate to below 90%.
An enemy player is inside the keep or tower’s outer wall. (the keep remains contested while an enemy mesmer or thief is in it).

Contest effects:
Waypoint is disabled (waypoint remains disabled 10 seconds after contest event ends)
NPCs can only be resurrected by a player skills once during each contest event.

Make this happen to make stupid defensive tactics go away. It should be naturally harder to defend a keep that is deeper in enemy territory.

DevonCarver.5370:

Waypoints are being evaluated currently. There will be changes to that aspect of WvW that we look at in the upcoming tests. Based on how that works out, we would then move any of those changes into the live game once they had been tested. We aren’t discussing the specifics just yet, until the test is live.

well lets hope though that u consider, that if u are outmanned and the enemy rushes a keep, people need to be able to get there and defend it. the masteries have made defending a pain as gates and walls dont last long.
i think u should improve the keeps first, before changing wp’s. i know it works also the other way areound, that an outnumbering zerg gets to portal in and banner the lord right away, but defending needs to be improved. omega golem rushes are terrible meta atm and even if u are in the keep there are things that make defending nearly impossible:

eles can dragontooth almost everything down without los(this still hasnt been fixed!!!!!)

eles meteorshower hits everything on the wall

necros can hit u through the wall and no los

omega golems melt though everything in seconds

most of the time once u arrive at the keep after wp is contested, they are already either in the lordsroom or on inner eventhough u called it out right away

the keeps are built too zergfriendly (make traps, chokepoints, strengthen gates, make cannons more safe, make walls more safe, etc)

also thieves can tag a gate and contest the entire keep

make gates invulnerable to autoattacks (pvd is ridiculous)

so yeah after that u can change the wp’s

Deli.1302:

If you’re going to change the way waypoints work then you’re going to have to do something about golems (alphas and omegas) and ram mastery.

Golems and traited superior rams currently burn gates down (reinforced or not) faster than a defensive force can get there.

Have scouts, waypoint before the keep gets contested. You have a 30 second window before the keep comes up as contested after it has been attacked, enough time to waypoint if you have proper scouting. Although they should lower the damage of omegas a bit or increase the supply needed because a server that has a t3 keep fairly well defended can take all of its supply and build 5-6 omegas and head out without a worry.

Tongku.5326:

I agree with you, however, conversely you should not be able to contest a keep/castle by simply “tapping”. Tapping mechanic needs to be removed from the game or drastically altered.

Fully upgraded gate guards should have stealth detection and be fully capable to wipe a small group of players (up to 5), The said keep/castle should become contested if there is at least 2% or 3% damage done to the said gate/wall, not just single hit, that is ridiculous.

Or they could change it so only siege damages gates. No idea why you can auto-attack down a gate in the first place.

BlackAngel.1349:

Deli.1302:

If you’re going to change the way waypoints work then you’re going to have to do something about golems (alphas and omegas) and ram mastery.

Golems and traited superior rams currently burn gates down (reinforced or not) faster than a defensive force can get there.

Have scouts, waypoint before the keep gets contested. You have a 30 second window before the keep comes up as contested after it has been attacked, enough time to waypoint if you have proper scouting. Although they should lower the damage of omegas a bit or increase the supply needed because a server that has a t3 keep fairly well defended can take all of its supply and build 5-6 omegas and head out without a worry.

I don’t think you understand how the waypoint mechanic even works.

DevonCarver.5370:

Waypoints are being evaluated currently. There will be changes to that aspect of WvW that we look at in the upcoming tests. Based on how that works out, we would then move any of those changes into the live game once they had been tested. We aren’t discussing the specifics just yet, until the test is live.

Just for the record I love waypoints and so do many other players. They help make WvW a fast paced experience, with constant combat.

If you were to remove waypoints or force players to run more from point to point (boring downtime, with no combat/action), it would make WvW worse not better.

I find this discussion rather interesting as I’ve often found the reality of defense in WvW much more boring than I think it should be (as I’m sure most would agree). Part of this relates to points made above about map size and WP contest mechanics but it also has a bit to do with the fact that the portals into and out of friendly keeps make entering fairly easy even when the gate you’re near is being attacked.

If you’re inside a keep (and have siege) it should be really easy to defend. If you’re outside as the keep falls under attack it should be really hard to defend. At least on my server currently almost no one actively defends because the zerg can get back in time to save almost anything. This, imo, is sad. Defending should be something that people commit to. Not as action packed as zerg attacking, but then if the rewards for successful defense were better maybe more people would do it.

It would be nice to see a revamp of a number of related features: WP use, contesting (both starting contest and having it remain on), defense rewards (or maybe penalties for failed attacks?), and less access to the interior of objectives under attack.

I think it’s fine to go aid an objective under attack, but you should have to either sneak in, or attack from the outside. I think the portals into an objective (at least the ones near the point of attack) should be disabled as well. Just my opinion, I’m sure a bunch will disagree.

aarias.4016:

First off, I am a supporter of waypoints in WvW. That said, I don’t think they should be used the way they currently can be; as of now, when contested, a waypoint will open up (briefly) between the expiry of one “contest” and start of a new one. Is this working as intended?

In addition to evaluating whether WPs should stay locked when a keep is contested through the end of a defense event, also look into allow combat inside a keep in general to count as ‘contesting’. In longer fights it becomes tedious to have to remember to send one guy to poke at a gate to keep the contested status up while there is a 100-man 3-way raging in the lords room.

Mattargul.9235:

aarias.4016:

First off, I am a supporter of waypoints in WvW. That said, I don’t think they should be used the way they currently can be; as of now, when contested, a waypoint will open up (briefly) between the expiry of one “contest” and start of a new one. Is this working as intended?

In addition to evaluating whether WPs should stay locked when a keep is contested through the end of a defense event, also look into allow combat inside a keep in general to count as ‘contesting’. In longer fights it becomes tedious to have to remember to send one guy to poke at a gate to keep the contested status up while there is a 100-man 3-way raging in the lords room.

huge +1

Be funny to make it something you can destroy to take it out for say 15 minutes. Or unless somebody repairs it for a lower cost that the actual upgrade.

The ideal solution would be a player limit on use when in combat per minute. 10 players every minute when contested would make for interesting play.

Waypoints should not ever be contested unless the enemy is in the lord’s room. At that point the enemy should be able to destroy the waypoint just like any other siege, gate or wall. Until then the waypoint should be safe as it is inside a protected keep.

Otherwise it is simple to have a few people make the waypoint useless by constantly hitting the outside doors or walls something that does not make any other thing in the keep not work.

shagworth.5017:

BlackAngel.1349:

Deli.1302:

If you’re going to change the way waypoints work then you’re going to have to do something about golems (alphas and omegas) and ram mastery.

Golems and traited superior rams currently burn gates down (reinforced or not) faster than a defensive force can get there.

Have scouts, waypoint before the keep gets contested. You have a 30 second window before the keep comes up as contested after it has been attacked, enough time to waypoint if you have proper scouting. Although they should lower the damage of omegas a bit or increase the supply needed because a server that has a t3 keep fairly well defended can take all of its supply and build 5-6 omegas and head out without a worry.

I don’t think you understand how the waypoint mechanic even works.

I don’t think you even understand what I was responding to. You have 30 seconds after a gate is tagged for the keep to show up as contested, therefore with proper scouting you can minimize the effect of golem rushes. Please read the post I was replying to before making comments like that one.

BlackAngel.1349:

Deli.1302:

If you’re going to change the way waypoints work then you’re going to have to do something about golems (alphas and omegas) and ram mastery.

Golems and traited superior rams currently burn gates down (reinforced or not) faster than a defensive force can get there.

Have scouts, waypoint before the keep gets contested. You have a 30 second window before the keep comes up as contested after it has been attacked, enough time to waypoint if you have proper scouting. Although they should lower the damage of omegas a bit or increase the supply needed because a server that has a t3 keep fairly well defended can take all of its supply and build 5-6 omegas and head out without a worry.

The waypoint gets immediately contested once the gate/wall is hit. No 30s delay. Also, Mesmer portals. You don’t play very much do you?
Even in its current state, putting a waypoint in a keep is pretty much the ONLY way you can defend it against a golem rush, scouted or not. If a keep didn’t have a waypoint, guess how long it would take for the defensive force to get there……
You think a defensive force can get out of combat, port to spawn and run all the way to the keep before the golems have reached the gates?

With proper scouting you can and unless your zerg is occupied elsewhere (the biggest issue is having all of your map on o e spot, which isn’t good strategy), yes you can get there before the golems do. As for the waypoint, keeps and towers ha e a 30s delay before showing white swords, aka contested, I assumed waypoints would be the same, seems that I was wrong in that but still doesn’t take away from the fact that good scouting (not just sitting on top of walls) will mitigate the effect of golems.

BlackAngel.1349:

Deli.1302:

If you’re going to change the way waypoints work then you’re going to have to do something about golems (alphas and omegas) and ram mastery.

Golems and traited superior rams currently burn gates down (reinforced or not) faster than a defensive force can get there.

Have scouts, waypoint before the keep gets contested. You have a 30 second window before the keep comes up as contested after it has been attacked, enough time to waypoint if you have proper scouting. Although they should lower the damage of omegas a bit or increase the supply needed because a server that has a t3 keep fairly well defended can take all of its supply and build 5-6 omegas and head out without a worry.

erm we ususally have scouts in every keep and believe me if u get rushed, scouts wont help as eve if u inform everyone on ts right away, the enemy is already on the inner or even in the lordsroom by thetime help arrives…
this is a little extreem, but check what an omega golem rush can do to fully fortifiyed keeps:

Waypoints make the strong server stronger. They can move around quicker as one big blob. This has been the general trend of most MMOs.

Why not reserve it? Give the advantage to the little guy. Add more break-out type events. Maybe some behind enemy lines to drain supplies or destroy siege and maybe even weaken upgrades. Let them have stealth attacks that don’t trigger swords. Cheaper siege.

If a server couldn’t win against another when they had no upgrades, what makes you think they can when a few days later when that server has t3 keeps everywhere?

Maybe this has been mentioned, but to me, waypoints are fine. Its the contesting mechanics that need work.

Waypoints are a servers best chance against enemy forces. For instance in t1, you not only have to worry about 1 server attacking your stuff but 2. It can be a challenge on some keeps, for instances hills, which only has 2 gates. 1 server attacks the north while the other attacks the south. The waypoint is the only chance at times for a server to get forces inside.

As well, during times without queues, some servers have groups called map hoppers.
Basically they leave scouts on one map, and send forces to a different map. Waypoints give the main force a chance to come back to defend if its attacked.

Waypoints are fine, it shouldn’t be easy to take a keep as it is a tower.

My issue is with the contesting. 1 lone theif shouldnt be able to contest a waypoint. by attacking a gate. A mechanic like so would work I think. One person attacking a gate wont contest a waypoint unless that gate is below a certain threshold, lets say 75%. As well, if a gate is open the waypoint will automatically recontest after the few seconds after the repel the enemy event ends.

So basically speaking with such a mechanic, if you repel the attacker and your gate is 50%. A lone theif could still contest your waypoint. However if you repair it to full again, the same theif would not be able to. Basically any attack done to a gate below 75% will contest the waypoint.

They should also give people a bit more time between the decontesting and recontesting of the waypoint. 2 seconds is a bit small a window, especially when it lags out. 5 seconds I think would be fine.

With all the lag issues and queue issues, why the heck would time and energy be spent tinkering with way points? I get that different teams can work on different things – so eliminate some from one and bolster the other.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

With all the lag issues and queue issues, why the heck would time and energy be spent tinkering with way points? I get that different teams can work on different things – so eliminate some from one and bolster the other.

True, fixing the queue’s and lag, should take precidence over changing the game in any significant way.
The game is fine the way it is, if you can get it in and play through the lag.