Every so often I see players complaining about zergs/blobs… and trying to come up with ways to make is so smaller groups can contribute more… so I’m here to tell you how this can be done in 3 steps…
1- More maps in play with open area objectives. This will spread out players, and allow smaller groups and solo players to contribute more.
2- Much better support skills and designs are needed. This game was NOT created with strong heal and nonheal support designs. The UI isn’t tailored for support roles. Support skills were not designed to target other players. The ground aoe support skills are awful because combat is designed for players to move, and that makes a counter productive scenario. All non ranged aoe support skills force players to be in point blank range within x radius, so it forces players to stack. All support skills have such short durations individually that it forces players to stack for maximum benefit.
By contrast to the above, City of Heroes had a fully fleshed out support system with a good UI, player targetable aoe and single target heal and non heal support skills, point blank aoe heal and non heal support skills, long duration (60+ seconds…) support skill buffs… and later in the lifecycle the devs made it so single target buffs would also hit all surrounding teammates, so it was a huge qol improvement to play support… The best part is that all of their “professions” also had either a primary or secondary power set that was designed to be offensive… So no, you weren’t just some forced buff bot in City of Heroes… These designs allowed, and encouraged, players to move around a lot, and smaller groups could function great without needing to stack, unlike here…
If the gw2 devs want to learn how to make a better support system (and overall game), that encourages effective small team play… then look up this for some much needed inspiration from a game that was, and still is, way ahead of its time in the class and combat departments… https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page
3- Way more ranged aoe and melee aoe attacks… Another area where City of Heroes shines… There were a ton of player targeted ranged aoe skills (no, not like the ground target aoe skills here), point blank aoe skills, and yes, some ground target aoe skills… Adding more aoe attacks makes it more dangerous for players to stack, so naturally this forces players to destack more… But what about pve swagger? Just add more mobs and more toughness to those mobs… simple.
…All of these suggestions improve wvw combat gameplay and breaks up zergs/blobs more… And pve is no problem with changes 2 and 3, because all the devs need to do is beef up all pve encounters so there is more of a dynamic challenge to match on that side of the game.
You’re welcome!
Edit- And for those who never played City of Heroes, or can’t envision what I’m talking about… This video will give you a taste of what it was like to play a support character, in a movement oriented game like here, in a pvp zone… The point of view is from a “Controller” Archetype and the primary power set was Illusion Control (Offensive control powers) and secondary power set was “Thermal Radiation” (Heal and non heal support skills). This was one, of very many, power set options offered in the game…
https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Illusion_Control
(edited by Swagger.1459)
Gw2 specifically moved away from targeting skills to make the game less tab-target kill. It requires dodging, group healing thats effective requires coordination. Combat in Gw2 is so highly rated because failure is always an option.
1 – Desert Bl is bigger and ppl cried…alot. Ppl wont spread out..they will stay in a blob and will simply slow the pace down. If you want to work in smaller more effective groups….join a wvw guild.
2- If you want to understand how nearly any class can be built for “support” I reccomend joining a wvw guild.
3- Gw2 was specifically designed to get away from tab targeted aoe skills..however if you play with your options you can find snap to target aoe targeting. The Aoe cap basically makes stacking effective damage reduction. So aoe all you want, 10 Aoes wont make a dent in 30 ppl. To learn more about of aoe intensive some classes are and how aoes are used in wvw I reccomend joining a wvw guild.
Gw2 specifically moved away from targeting skills to make the game less tab-target kill. It requires dodging, group healing thats effective requires coordination. Combat in Gw2 is so highly rated because failure is always an option.
Yet there are a bunch of tab target skills that can be dodged anyway, so moot point. Group heal and non heal support was designed poorly from the onset, intentionally, and it shows. Yes, gw2 has some good combat elements, but it has nothing to do with having “failure is always an option”… you can die in any game…
1 – Desert Bl is bigger and ppl cried…alot. Ppl wont spread out..they will stay in a blob and will simply slow the pace down. If you want to work in smaller more effective groups….join a wvw guild.
Umm dbl has tons of structures… I’m talking about maps with less structures (I said open area objectives) to take… these are 2 different things
2- If you want to understand how nearly any class can be built for “support” I reccomend joining a wvw guild.
I’m fully aware, that’s not the point, so you should reread what I’m talking about
3- Gw2 was specifically designed to get away from tab targeted aoe skills..however if you play with your options you can find snap to target aoe targeting. The Aoe cap basically makes stacking effective damage reduction. So aoe all you want, 10 Aoes wont make a dent in 30 ppl. To learn more about of aoe intensive some classes are and how aoes are used in wvw I reccomend joining a wvw guild.
I’m fully aware about the aoe skills here. I don’t really care about original designs, I’m talking about changes going forward… Snap ground target or aoe caps have nothing to do with this. And you’re wrong if you think more aoe skills won’t make a “dent” or difference in combat
You are missing a lot of key points.
(edited by Swagger.1459)
If you want to know how great breaking up Zergs will be just go play dbl
WvW involves many different playstyles and zergs are part of that. There is nothing really wrong with them and they are easy to avoid. There has always been blobs and there always will be blobs however what has been taken away is the ability of a well coordinated smaller group to deal with said blobs. That is the real shame IMO.
thief fix a lot of blobing problem with zerging meta just has not accepted them in to it yet.
WvW involves many different playstyles and zergs are part of that. There is nothing really wrong with them and they are easy to avoid. There has always been blobs and there always will be blobs however what has been taken away is the ability of a well coordinated smaller group to deal with said blobs. That is the real shame IMO.
Just to clarify… I’m not anti-zerg, just saying…
thief fix a lot of blobing problem with zerging meta just has not accepted them in to it yet.
Love it when my buddies and I run our DD’s and go after the tails of these blobs, and half of the blob chases us (leaving their blob a lot smaller), only for them to run back and we turn around and chop off their tail.
THAT is how to reduce the size of a blob. Its amazing how far ppl will chase you.
@Swagger
I hear ya man:)
thief fix a lot of blobing problem with zerging meta just has not accepted them in to it yet.
Love it when my buddies and I run our DD’s and go after the tails of these blobs, and half of the blob chases us (leaving their blob a lot smaller), only for them to run back and we turn around and chop off their tail.
THAT is how to reduce the size of a blob. Its amazing how far ppl will chase you.
i was talking more along the lines if you stack choking gas it become active way to statically remove stab and resistance at a gobal rate. <- no other class even come close to how often thief can effectively deal with both at once. since the meta focus around who can out bunker other until some insane con bomb hit. thief add well to that core design.
like take burn guard i was running DPS check against that build an my thief. burn guard was keeping up with my dps sololy because i dealing with resistance for him.
Gw2 specifically moved away from targeting skills to make the game less tab-target kill. It requires dodging, group healing thats effective requires coordination. Combat in Gw2 is so highly rated because failure is always an option.
Yet there are a bunch of tab target skills that can be dodged anyway, so moot point. Group heal and non heal support was designed poorly from the onset, intentionally, and it shows. Yes, gw2 has some good combat elements, but it has nothing to do with having “failure is always an option”… you can die in any game…
1 – Desert Bl is bigger and ppl cried…alot. Ppl wont spread out..they will stay in a blob and will simply slow the pace down. If you want to work in smaller more effective groups….join a wvw guild.
Umm dbl has tons of structures… I’m talking about maps with less structures (I said open area objectives) to take… these are 2 different things
2- If you want to understand how nearly any class can be built for “support” I reccomend joining a wvw guild.
I’m fully aware, that’s not the point, so you should reread what I’m talking about
3- Gw2 was specifically designed to get away from tab targeted aoe skills..however if you play with your options you can find snap to target aoe targeting. The Aoe cap basically makes stacking effective damage reduction. So aoe all you want, 10 Aoes wont make a dent in 30 ppl. To learn more about of aoe intensive some classes are and how aoes are used in wvw I reccomend joining a wvw guild.
I’m fully aware about the aoe skills here. I don’t really care about original designs, I’m talking about changes going forward… Snap ground target or aoe caps have nothing to do with this. And you’re wrong if you think more aoe skills won’t make a “dent” or difference in combat
You are missing a lot of key points.
mostly i agree with you except in the tab target skills. If your toon always hit makes the game skill less and braindead as you only need to smash buttons.
If we are looking to a fast paced combat where skill is required tab target must disappear and something like action camera must be forced on to players where no skill is auto target to the tab selected enemy. Then we can talk about flanking and skill.
Until then this is mostly a smashy buttons no thinking too casual with no deep mechanics game,
Yes, but you are only looking at it from 1 point of view. There is nothing wrong with tab target skills because you still have evadeds, blocks, dodging, damage mitigation buffs, healing, positioning, los… Also, if the devs ever get serious with improving heal and non heal support, then combat gets tougher… so additional sources of damage are needed too.
Just about every skill in City of Heroes was tab target… and there was nothing brain dead about the combat. In fact, there are a ton of class and combat designs that are still way ahead of thier time in many respects. Sure, gw2 is a modern game in ways, but unlike here, the devs from CoH made sure classes and combat were the main focus for the end user… That type of development effort is sorely missing here.
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