Guild Wars 2

The trick is to give advantages to small group play without punishing zergs. One way to do this is to provide advantages using the “team” grouping mechanic. Coordinated team play vs. uncoordinate zerg balls would provide modest benefits.

1. The only people who can revive a fallen ally are people in their team. (for WvW only, of course). This would promote grouping and organized play (coordinated small group>larger numbers of random people not grouped/teamed up), not punish zergs, and equalize the playing field a bit when larger numbers go up against smaller numbers. Alternatively, you could leave as is, and double the revive rate if only team mates are reviving the fallen.

2. Team stats buff. You get a 2% decrease in damage taken per active team member within 600 meters. Thus a coordinated 5 member team is taking 10% less damage…this would really help in taking on larger numbers.

3. Buffs applied to team mates last 10% longer.

4. Field effects with finishers are 5% more effective if produced by team mates. To get the bonus, one team mate would need to lay the field, and another would need to set off the finisher. (this one might be too complicated to implement)

Anyway, these are just some quick ideas. But I think finding ways to buff coordinated team play without punishing larger zergs holds promise for promoting small scale skirmishes.

The down state and AOE limit aren’t changing. But there could be buffs given to small group play to help offset these zerg-friendly mechanics.

Easy, increase AoE to hit 10 people instead of 5… Thus a group of 5 can stop a 50 man zerg, grats.

Otaur.9268:

Easy, increase AoE to hit 10 people instead of 5… Thus a group of 5 can stop a 50 man zerg, grats.

Anet has already explained that it’s not easy and reasons they won’t do that. Also it works both ways, no matter how you cut it 5 people won’t be able to stop a 50 man zerg. Increasing AoE caps would only make larger groups stronger, if you want to better promote small groups you have to find a way to change the way safety in numbers works in this game with out punishing players for playing the way they want.

anet should sell something in the gem store that lets your abilities hit more than 5 people at once.

UR WELCOME ANET!!!

There are much easier ways,

Bredin, you can random invite ppl to a party and walk with a commander, thats not really helpfull.

You can better do this as an example.

Capping a tower gives 1000 Wxp.

This Wxp will be split between all ppl who gained the event.

For instance 5 ppl capping it, 200 wxp.

10 ppl capping it, 100 wxp

a zerg of 50 ppl capping it only 20 wxp.

Zergs are the easiest way to earn wxp, so thats why everybody zergs.

Bredin.5368:

The trick is to give advantages to small group play without punishing zergs. One way to do this is to provide advantages using the “team” grouping mechanic. Coordinated team play vs. uncoordinate zerg balls would provide modest benefits.

1. The only people who can revive a fallen ally are people in their team. (for WvW only, of course). This would promote grouping and organized play (coordinated small group>larger numbers of random people not grouped/teamed up), not punish zergs, and equalize the playing field a bit when larger numbers go up against smaller numbers. Alternatively, you could leave as is, and double the revive rate if only team mates are reviving the fallen.

2. Team stats buff. You get a 2% decrease in damage taken per active team member within 600 meters. Thus a coordinated 5 member team is taking 10% less damage…this would really help in taking on larger numbers.

3. Buffs applied to team mates last 10% longer.

4. Field effects with finishers are 5% more effective if produced by team mates. To get the bonus, one team mate would need to lay the field, and another would need to set off the finisher. (this one might be too complicated to implement)

Anyway, these are just some quick ideas. But I think finding ways to buff coordinated team play without punishing larger zergs holds promise for promoting small scale skirmishes.

The down state and AOE limit aren’t changing. But there could be buffs given to small group play to help offset these zerg-friendly mechanics.

The problem with your suggestion is that, if they were implemented, might be an incentive to solo roamers to group up but the zerg will also benefit from it.

During guild raids, we usually run with 30 people, give or take, everybody grouped up and close together. How do you prevent us from getting your buffs that were intended to benefit only a group of 5?

Your ideas imply that people that zerg cannot also group and zerg. They can and will.

Remove rally, all forms, from WvW.

Change all buffs/heals/cleanse to be group only.

Everyone can create squads and give squads a UI for management and display.

Change reward structure to stop favoring PvDoor zergs.

Change weakness back to the way it was.

Add short CC immunity timer.

AoE cap increase.

WXP abilities for non-siege users.

There are lots of things that can be done, but the reality is ANET is carebear central and “lowering the bar” is their official motto.

If you want to encourage small group play, here is an easy fix…

1. Increase the radius of all siege attacks
2. If 5 or less people are in the siege attack radius, they take no damage.
3. kitten or more are in the siege attack radius, they take progressively more damage based on the number of people.

I’ve been doing small group wvw since beta and I believe a huge problem is how hard it is to get away from zergs once they’re on their way to you due to the combat movement speed…

I think a big help would be if in-combat swiftness gave you as much speed as out of combat swiftness, or keep movement speed the same in combat and out, it’s too easy for a class to teleport up and tag someone in your group into combat thus getting them crushed by the out of combat perma swiftness zerg who are chasing all across the map to all get a chance at 60 wxp off that person.

If groups could roam and pick their fights a little better and not pray to have mass stealth things and just use coordinated swiftness to retreat easier I think the zerg wouldn’t be so scary and I really don’t see the problem with people having a better chance to run away with swiftness, also in turn people wouldn’t feel as obliged to play an annoying tanky solo spec so they can get away, they could instead use positioning and swiftness and find proper fights.

I really think the easiest solution though without any huge impact would be for swiftness in combat to = out of combat, it would make it a more interesting combat boon also if you ran a bit faster in a fight, people would still get caught but it wouldn’t be like it is now where if you run into someone and outnumber them badly you eventually collect the kill like pacman with little effort.

I really dislike the suggestion.

Giving such buffs it totally unneeded and would seriously punish solo or duo roamers against a group of 5. The latter already has a huge advantage and doesn’t need more.

Even when I have a commander tag, I often don’t belong to any party. Forcing people to join party is really bad. I didn’t buy this game and invest time to be forced.

The combo field’s do not require any buffing, but the following combo fields need to have their effects reduced in WvWvW: water, fire, lightning, smoke. The 1st three are hugely overpowered in organized large scale battles and smoke fields are the thing, which allows permanent stealth.

With your suggestion, I could not even revive anybody on my side unless I am a member a party. HUH!?

Niim.9260:

Your ideas imply that people that zerg cannot also group and zerg. They can and will.

Remove rally, all forms, from WvW.

Change all buffs/heals/cleanse to be group only.

Everyone can create squads and give squads a UI for management and display.

Change reward structure to stop favoring PvDoor zergs.

Change weakness back to the way it was.

Add short CC immunity timer.

AoE cap increase.

WXP abilities for non-siege users.

There are lots of things that can be done, but the reality is ANET is carebear central and “lowering the bar” is their official motto.

Wait….have these ideas ever been used before in an mmo?

Deniara Devious.3948:

I really dislike the suggestion.

Giving such buffs it totally unneeded and would seriously punish solo or duo roamers against a group of 5. The latter already has a huge advantage and doesn’t need more.

Even when I have a commander tag, I often don’t belong to any party. Forcing people to join party is really bad. I didn’t buy this game and invest time to be forced.

The combo field’s do not require any buffing, but the following combo fields need to have their effects reduced in WvWvW: water, fire, lightning, smoke. The 1st three are hugely overpowered in organized large scale battles and smoke fields are the thing, which allows permanent stealth.

With your suggestion, I could not even revive anybody on my side unless I am a member a party. HUH!?

You need to go play some other games and realize this is the first, and last of its kind…..

All the casuals will live in gw2 and pay Anet to make it a more role play/social lounge. No one else who wants to actually PLAY their game will ever play a model like this again.

Zikory.6871:

Otaur.9268:

Easy, increase AoE to hit 10 people instead of 5… Thus a group of 5 can stop a 50 man zerg, grats.

Anet has already explained that it’s not easy and reasons they won’t do that.

It is is easy to increase a cap from 5 to 10, they’re not being totally honest. Case in point: DAOC, a game > 10 years old, had no AOE cap and supported higher player density as well.

Bredin.5368:

The trick is to give advantages to small group play without punishing zergs. One way to do this is to provide advantages using the “team” grouping mechanic. Coordinated team play vs. uncoordinate zerg balls would provide modest benefits.

1. The only people who can revive a fallen ally are people in their team. (for WvW only, of course). This would promote grouping and organized play (coordinated small group>larger numbers of random people not grouped/teamed up), not punish zergs, and equalize the playing field a bit when larger numbers go up against smaller numbers. Alternatively, you could leave as is, and double the revive rate if only team mates are reviving the fallen.

2. Team stats buff. You get a 2% decrease in damage taken per active team member within 600 meters. Thus a coordinated 5 member team is taking 10% less damage…this would really help in taking on larger numbers.

3. Buffs applied to team mates last 10% longer.

4. Field effects with finishers are 5% more effective if produced by team mates. To get the bonus, one team mate would need to lay the field, and another would need to set off the finisher. (this one might be too complicated to implement)

Anyway, these are just some quick ideas. But I think finding ways to buff coordinated team play without punishing larger zergs holds promise for promoting small scale skirmishes.

The down state and AOE limit aren’t changing. But there could be buffs given to small group play to help offset these zerg-friendly mechanics.

1.) They goes against the randomness of helping that they’ve set out to bring players together to help each other. Won’t happen. To Counter it, they could do something like can’t res a double downed player while in combat, but that too could be easily countered by walking 10 feet away to break combat.

2.) I’m not sure any type of buff that increases/decreases damage is a good move for the game.

3.) How do you define teammates? Guild members/Grouped/CommanderSquad? If anything that should be incentive to join a squad.

4.) By effect finishers being more effective you mean more damage? more Stacks? more duration? I’d go back to my answer number 2.

I think theres some other ways to help promote small group play (I typically run in a group between 5-10 so I feel your pain). The obvious method would be to not reward the Zerg as heavily as they do. But that won’t happen.

They need to add in alternate play styles besides just zerg up and take the objectives on the map. Capture and Hold is brought up often within our voice comm server as something that may do it. Add in Several Points that Tick for points as long as people are holding it. If its several locations (Lets say on borderworlds, Centaurs/skrit/and Island), you can’t send the zerg to all 3 at once so you’d have to split them up. It would get amplified more if there is another zerg tying to take things.

I really liked the idea of base WXP for something split between number of players participating. Zergs are simply over-rewarded and all that for lack of skills…
Another one would be increasing AoE cap to 7-8 at least. Wasn’t there no aoe cap at the beginning?
Third one, along with two previous, would be increasing some of the abilities in small group and decreasing in bigger.

Something needs to be changed, cause as for first few months we were able to see small groups, now the only occassion to witness that is when they are on their way to zerg. We have really hard time finding roamers… there’s quite much no diversity. Either it’s zerging or blobbing.

No downed state.
You die, you die. Life moves on, Run back like everyone else and pay attention to your surroundings next time.

No AOE limit.
-Portal bombs have to be addressed. Mesmers have things that every class in this game does not have access to. This is one of the things that needs serious addressing.
-You got wiped by a small group? Learn to place scouts, pan the camera around and not sit in one cluster over the commander. Get on voice instead of expecting a person to spend the entire day typing instructions/warnings and then expecting baddies to read them in time to stop a portal bomb. You never see any ‘war’ game having people pile on top of each other with tunnel vision and expect to win.

Fix the stealth system.
You get hit, you are revealed. No more broken stealth mechanic favoring bad stealth abusing players.

Weapon stacks should be from players and not NPCs or guards in WvW. You want a stack: earn it. Not from pve vs coyotes. You lose your stacks if you put the stack weapon in your bag.

Rethink food/ consuamble introduction into wvw. Why?
Imbalances. Also, wvw players don’t make a lot of money. The high end -and now mid end- foods are crazy expensive. You actually lose money while wvwing because of the consumables -especially if you are not on a zergling train-.

Allow high population servers to que for WvW in low population ones or ones that are doing badly. Future online faction vs faction games will impliment overflow maps to try and limit gross disproportionate numbers in pvp.
Don’t like it? Don’t do it. Some ppl enjoy a challenge and not riding a zerg and lowbie servers welcome the help.

Problem solved, game more challenging, ppl actually stick around and not ditch wvw in mass droves. Not even the casuals that Anet decided -horribly- to cater to are sticking around now.

Low servers are being abandoned and high Tier servers are becoming zergier>>less enjoyable>>ppl will abandon them eventually.

Try these changes on special overflow maps and see how ppl like them. You experimented with a terrible matching service that has led to mass desertion of wvw -regardless of what your silly numbers tell you since we play wvw more than you do- so why not try this?

Life changes. Learn to adapt and move on or get left behind.

mjharrison.3209:

Zikory.6871:

Otaur.9268:

Easy, increase AoE to hit 10 people instead of 5… Thus a group of 5 can stop a 50 man zerg, grats.

Anet has already explained that it’s not easy and reasons they won’t do that.

It is is easy to increase a cap from 5 to 10, they’re not being totally honest. Case in point: DAOC, a game > 10 years old, had no AOE cap and supported higher player density as well.

Also, it was 10 to begin with, they Lowered the AoE Cap limit for… can you guess it? sPvP! Lol

mjharrison.3209:

Zikory.6871:

Otaur.9268:

Easy, increase AoE to hit 10 people instead of 5… Thus a group of 5 can stop a 50 man zerg, grats.

Anet has already explained that it’s not easy and reasons they won’t do that.

It is is easy to increase a cap from 5 to 10, they’re not being totally honest. Case in point: DAOC, a game > 10 years old, had no AOE cap and supported higher player density as well.

The servers can’t handle the calculations with the current cap. Increasing it would make WvW even more unplayable.

As for DAOC, as you said, it is 10 yrs old. It required a fraction of the calculations that GW2 does. GW2’s combat was designed in a way that requires far too many computations for WvW. And before it’s said, I highly doubt “buying better hardware” is the answer.

Anet has already said the AoE limit is in there for performance reasons, it won’t be removed and IMO it should be in there for balance reasons. WvW is already mostly an AoE war that requires very little situation awareness. Lastly, removing the cap won’t change anything with the makeup of zergs except remove any build that doesn’t AoE.

Forcing a portal after player death in WvW is a good idea IMO. I am also on board with removing Rally. I like the downed state concept but it has a lot of down sides in its current state.

I would also add in map objectives each tick rather than all locations on a map be open for points gathering. Creating 4 or so objectives every 15 minutes that players must hold to get points would add another layer of coordination since a zerg simply couldn’t move from one objective to another and keep the points up.

Super ez way to solve downed state….only ressable by other players when they are out of combat. You can rez urself super slowly, but if the small group of guys smashing a larger groups keeps downing people…they shouldnt be penalized because the zerg casuals have “dedicated rezzers” lol.

And all those explaining how AoE cap actually helps…please tell me where this helps a coordinated guild group of 5:
5 guys smash into 25-30. They hit 5 max people each, while ALL 30 can land attacks on those 5. Hmmmmmm…….who is this favoring? Lol for days.

Mechanics are a joke. Literally mario cart is tougher.

It’s like that guy Obscure One says…“We’re currently investigating potential ways to possibly resolve these issues in the future, but check out our living world we’ve got loads of new content!”

No problem with upping AOE , as long as before that or same time there is friendly fire damage including the firer .That dynamic would change zergs group fight more than aoe increase and realisticand without changing cap is a joke .Furthur the LOS needs upgrading from the basically 2d implementation used now.

easy way to solve zerg fights would be as someone mentioned splitting wxp for taking objectives

imho good idea would be also adding debuff witch increases cast time by xx% depending on amount of nearby ppl (u need to concentrate so that this nasty meteor shower wont hit ur allies, take care of that to dont smash ally with hammer etc)

XII.9401:

No downed state.
You die, you die. Life moves on, Run back like everyone else and pay attention to your surroundings next time.

No AOE limit.
-Portal bombs have to be addressed. Mesmers have things that every class in this game does not have access to. This is one of the things that needs serious addressing.
-You got wiped by a small group? Learn to place scouts, pan the camera around and not sit in one cluster over the commander. Get on voice instead of expecting a person to spend the entire day typing instructions/warnings and then expecting baddies to read them in time to stop a portal bomb. You never see any ‘war’ game having people pile on top of each other with tunnel vision and expect to win.

Fix the stealth system.
You get hit, you are revealed. No more broken stealth mechanic favoring bad stealth abusing players.

Weapon stacks should be from players and not NPCs or guards in WvW. You want a stack: earn it. Not from pve vs coyotes. You lose your stacks if you put the stack weapon in your bag.

Rethink food/ consuamble introduction into wvw. Why?
Imbalances. Also, wvw players don’t make a lot of money. The high end -and now mid end- foods are crazy expensive. You actually lose money while wvwing because of the consumables -especially if you are not on a zergling train-.

Allow high population servers to que for WvW in low population ones or ones that are doing badly. Future online faction vs faction games will impliment overflow maps to try and limit gross disproportionate numbers in pvp.
Don’t like it? Don’t do it. Some ppl enjoy a challenge and not riding a zerg and lowbie servers welcome the help.

Problem solved, game more challenging, ppl actually stick around and not ditch wvw in mass droves. Not even the casuals that Anet decided -horribly- to cater to are sticking around now.

Low servers are being abandoned and high Tier servers are becoming zergier>>less enjoyable>>ppl will abandon them eventually.

Try these changes on special overflow maps and see how ppl like them. You experimented with a terrible matching service that has led to mass desertion of wvw -regardless of what your silly numbers tell you since we play wvw more than you do- so why not try this?

Life changes. Learn to adapt and move on or get left behind.

I agree is everything you said above except for a few things.

Fix the stealth system.
You get hit, you are revealed. No more broken stealth mechanic favoring bad stealth abusing players. – If they did this we would need to turn off the ability to auto attack without a target. I enjoy the action feel combat. Honestly, I wish they would take Tera’s combat system.

Removing food from WvW might be ok but some foods are almost core build features that may help certain classes lacking bonuses. i.e. Lemongrass Poultry Soup helps with the conditions meta. It was my bread and butter for my warrior.

Good write up.